Berry, Syreeta and Jean

**luke** · 10-20-2015, 01:00 AM

Why did Berry wait until Jean was introduced as the new Supreme in public to demand Syreeta become the new lead singer? Because of how Jean came across that night?

**marv2** · 10-20-2015, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Why did Berry wait until Jean was introduced as the new Supreme in public to demand Syreeta become the new lead singer? Because of how Jean came across that night?

No! and I thought I told this story a long time ago LOL!. I would relay it again now, but for same reason I did not do a "comprehensive" Supremes thread, I must refrain to keep the peace! LOL! Send me a private message ok?

**marv2** · 10-20-2015, 01:12 AM

Luke your box is full.

**detmotownguy** · 10-20-2015, 10:42 AM

Marc add me to the email please. Thanks in advance.

**marv2** · 10-20-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

Marc add me to the email please. Thanks in advance.

Can't, your box is full.

**Kraig Diesel** · 10-20-2015, 10:59 AM

Marv2, did you receive my message?

**motownlover1964** · 10-20-2015, 11:36 AM

Hi Marv, I'd be interested as well in reading about this as it seemed odd to me as well. My email is jimnegri@gmail.com -- Thank you, Jim

**marv2** · 10-20-2015, 11:51 AM

Ok done and I am done. Thanks.

supremester · 10-20-2015, 03:47 PM

Luke: There is a person here who has told this unsubstantiated story about Berry trying to have sex with Jean, her refusing, and Berry trying to fire her. I didn't believe it then, and, since )reading it, I've had 5 dinners with 3 ex Supremes [[sometimes with members of this forum) and all 3 said Jean never indicated that. One, even walked the line by saying, "Berry was friends with her brother Ernie - he wouldn't have done that.

What certain people didn't discuss in their books was that, in the fall of '69, Berry was working with JMC, Diana solo, launching The J5, dealing with the crumbling Temptations and trying to resurrect Martha & The Four Tops - the dude had things to DO!

Gil told me that Berry & Shelley were in heaven when they found Jean - she was talented and perfect. Gil concluded and they were all relieved to know that the new group was going to be fine - especially after hearing her finished tracks. Now all Berry had to do was teach Jean to imitate Diana and they would be home free - except Jean didn't want to imitate Diana - AT ALL. Jean was her own person and had her own style. It never dawned on Berry or Shelley that a girl taken out of oblivion to lead The Supremes would ever question their direction - but Jean did. She was very respectful at first, but stood her ground as things went on and Berry had been talking to Mary and Cindy about dumping Jean for weeks. They did not want Syreeta. Gil thought Jean was great and would adapt or compromise. Then Berry was unhappy with Jean's style. She was not into glamour or fashion and there was no teaching her. It all came to a head that week and when her saw how Jean looked and presented herself next to the other girls - she wasn't special enough and history proved him right.

Mary Wilson told me that, looking back, Berry was right about Jean, but at the time, she didn't want another diva in the group and that Syreeta was def a diva. "We had just gotten rid of one diva and didn't want another." She also said, "Berry is credited with a lot of gifts, but his real talent is being able to know the exact perfect person for the exact purpose - no one is as good as him."

By the way, be careful when you quote Mary because she reads some of these boards. She got involved in a convo on another forum just the other day.

**BayouMotownMan** · 10-20-2015, 05:40 PM

God bless you Supremester for a totally accurate accounting of what happened. I too interviewed Jean, Lynda and Mary and this is the same accounting they gave me. Only one person who was around suggested to me that Berry delivered an incomplete pass to Jean. I didn't believe that story then nor now, not with Ernie Terrell in the picture.

Now if anyone would like to foward to my email what said person has dumped out there, I can then send it to Jean's management. He's already in a mess with Lionel Richie

**REDHOT** · 10-20-2015, 05:51 PM

I'm not gonna touch that Lol,no disrespect to you BayouMotownMan,trust me,Mary don't have the time for that,i know Jean pretty good too.

**BayouMotownMan** · 10-20-2015, 06:37 PM

whatever that means RedHot lol

**luke** · 10-20-2015, 07:07 PM

I thought we were working on being civil not trying to intimidate people? You just can't stop can you?

supremester · 10-21-2015, 04:08 AM

When I first read the liar's "story" I had already heard it all from Gil Askey, who loved The Supremes and Jean and while he had due respect for BG, he also didn't think much of him as a person - mostly because of the abuse Miss Ross suffered at his hand. Now I don't doubt he'd make a pass at her - he'd have liked to have someone to dick on the road with them, but the rest is hogwash and EVERYONE knows it. WAY too many peeps witnessed the struggles they had to suggest it was a sex thing. And I can see both sides: Berry wanted a replacement for Diana Ross and didn't think it wrong to tell her incessantly to sing, act and dress like she does. Also I can see Jean thinking she is her own person and not into "frizzle frans and frou frous" No one is to "blame" - it just simply didn't work out. When he saw her standing next to Mary & Cindy at Farewell, he could see there was not the spark needed and he was right. Their gradual descent began immediately but was cloaked by their 6 popular singles and many - too many, perhaps, TV appearances.

I think they'd have fared better with Syreeta, but who knows? You can't just replace one of the most iconic pop singers in history - Jean did her best and gave it a great try - but it just wasn't a good fit - why make up excuses like sexual covenants, planned obsolescence and lack of promotion?

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

God bless you Supremester for a totally accurate accounting of what happened. I too interviewed Jean, Lynda and Mary and this is the same accounting they gave me. Only one person who was around suggested to me that Berry delivered an incomplete pass to Jean. I didn't believe that story then nor now, not with Ernie Terrell in the picture.

Now if anyone would like to foward to my email what said person has dumped out there, I can then send it to Jean's management. He's already in a mess with Lionel Richie

**ralpht** · 10-21-2015, 09:38 AM

Bayou,
I really don't like where you're trying to take this thread. I suggest you cool it a bit.

**BayouMotownMan** · 10-21-2015, 11:03 AM

Supremester, please email me at Rickn225@aol.com. I have proposed a book project and would like to talk to you in greater detail.

**midnightman** · 10-21-2015, 11:29 AM

Lord, I can't... I can't do this. Y'all done found a way to ruin another thread...

**blackguy69** · 10-21-2015, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Lord, I can't... I can't do this. Y'all done found a way to ruin another thread...

As always it never stops.

**detmotownguy** · 10-22-2015, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Can't, your box is full.

marv please try again, thanks.

**marv2** · 10-22-2015, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by detmotownguy

marv please try again, thanks.

Ok I will.

**captainjames** · 10-22-2015, 11:09 AM

I definitely can see why BG wanted her out because he could not mold and groom her the way he worked Diana. Most people would say I don't have to put up with this but Diana wanted what he wanted and that is why we got a win/win.

Its funny how Mary and Cindy said they didn't want another DIVA in the group but soon later down the line they got to see that Jean was a handful.

**BayouMotownMan** · 10-22-2015, 06:22 PM

Very accurate CaptainJames. Nobody controls Jean Terrell

**REDHOT** · 10-22-2015, 07:21 PM

People always say poor Jean,look what they[[Motown,or Berry Gordy)done to her,like you say CaptainJames,Jean was a handful,before Jean left The Supremes,she didn't get along with anyone,Motown Mary Cindy,Jean wanted out of Show Business,she wanted nothing to do with it,it had nothing to do with,not having a hit record,even if The Supremes would have had a hit record,Jean was gonna leave The Supremes,Jean is a moody person,if she was in a bad mood,she'd take it out on,almost everyone,and that includes her Supreme sisters,it's not poor Jean,they[[Mary Cindy Lynda) had to put up with Jean's moods,because the show must go on,i really feel sorry for Mary,because Mary had Jean's back,she wouldn't let Berry Gordy replace her,Mary really believed in Jean,i say poor Mary Wilson,i'm gonna say it again Jean Terrell wanted nothing to do with Show Business,trust me,Jean Terrell was a great talent,she could have been a big star,the entertainment world was not her thing,Lynda Laurence left The Supremes,with Jean,Lynda didn't know the different moods of Jean Terrell,she too found out,it's not gonna work,no one is gonna put up with Jean Terrell,i'm not saying this because,i dislike her,it's the truth,Jean had a great body of work with The Supremes,it's was great seein' her with her Supremes Sisters,at The Grammy Museum this year,Loved It.

**Bluebrock** · 10-23-2015, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

People always say poor Jean,look what they[[Motown,or Berry Gordy)done to her,like you say CaptainJames,Jean was a handful,before Jean left The Supremes,she didn't get along with anyone,Motown Mary Cindy,Jean wanted out of Show Business,she wanted nothing to do with it,it had nothing to do with,not having a hit record,even if The Supremes would have had a hit record,Jean was gonna leave The Supremes,Jean is a moody person,if she was in a bad mood,she'd take it out on,almost everyone,and that includes her Supreme sisters,it's not poor Jean,they[[Mary Cindy Lynda) had to put up with Jean's moods,because the show must go on,i really feel sorry for Mary,because Mary had Jean's back,she wouldn't let Berry Gordy replace her,Mary really believed in Jean,i say poor Mary Wilson,i'm gonna say it again Jean Terrell wanted nothing to do with Show Business,trust me,Jean Terrell was a great talent,she could have been a big star,the entertainment world was not her thing,Lynda Laurence left The Supremes,with Jean,Lynda didn't know the different moods of Jean Terrell,she too found out,it's not gonna work,no one is gonna put up with Jean Terrell,i'm not saying this because,i dislike her,it's the truth,Jean had a great body of work with The Supremes,it's was great seein' her with her Supremes Sisters,at The Grammy Museum this year,Loved It.

Jean was difficult that is for sure but I can never really criticise the lady because of the immense body of work she recorded as a Supreme and to a lesser extent as a solo artist. I adore her voice and if she was difficult then so be it. Most great talents are difficult. I know Mary was greatly frustrated by her but she also recognised what a special talent Jean was. It's very sad the way it all worked out.

**144man** · 10-24-2015, 04:10 PM

It's all rather sexist. If a man stands his ground, he's being strong; if a woman does it, she's unfairly labelled as awkward or difficult.

**luke** · 10-24-2015, 05:00 PM

Depends on what the stand is. Men can be difficult and women can be difficult.

**midnightman** · 10-24-2015, 08:31 PM

Berry doesn't deserve some of the blame here???

**BigAl** · 10-25-2015, 02:46 PM

Regardless of the circumstances surrounding Berry's disenchantment with Jean, it can't be argued that it was crappy for him to insist she get the heave-ho after so much attention had been paid to her having been hired. If that plan of his had gone through, the group would have lost what credibility it still had. Mary had the best interests of the group at heart when she refused to comply, especially knowing that Jean was already becoming willful. All that Berry's demand did was cause much distress to everyone involved. When he told Mary that if she didn't agree to move Syreeta in and Jean out, he would, "...wash my hands of The Supremes," I suspect he was planning to do that anyway, regardless of who ultimately took the job. The disagreement just gave him the perfect opportunity to make that pronouncement there at the very outset.

**marv2** · 10-25-2015, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Berry doesn't deserve some of the blame here???

Sure he does. He truly did not understand what a phenomenal talent he had in Jean Terrell [[and many other artists that were neglected at Motown). This man was sitting on a virtual goldmine of talent in every area of his company, but could not or would not promote or exploit it. Berry had enough talent in the Supremes, Temptation and Four Tops to have had 10 -15 major superstars without ever going out and scouting for more!

Jean was a tempermental Diva sure, but she had the goods to back it up. She wasn't a mean person at all. She was just solidly confident in what she could do and the talent she had. Off subject a bit because this something that's been said here several times by her detractors. It was about her not wanting to fit into the glamour image......NOT TRUE!

In her video autobiography "Through The Eyes of A Supreme" Jean flat out states that once she and Ernie Terrell & the Heavyweights played Atlantic City right after the Supremes. She said that she noticed some of sequins left behind by the Supremes on the floor of the dressing room and went on to say that she fantasized about wearing the expensive, glamorous gowns that the Supremes wore and vowed that she too one day would dress like that and she did! So all of this talk about her not fitting or wanting to fit the "image" is untrue.

**captainjames** · 10-25-2015, 08:11 PM

In all fairness to Mr. Gordy he handpicked Jean. If the boss or the man who handpick the replacement decided that this was not going to work, I would have made sure I had him in my court before moving forward. This is why Mary has repeatedly said Motown would not promote them ..............No Berry told you he washed his hands of this.

If you read and believe Mary's memories she clearly states how difficult Jean had become. Berry was good at seeing things head on.

**marv2** · 10-25-2015, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

In all fairness to Mr. Gordy he handpicked Jean. If the boss or the man who handpick the replacement decided that this was not going to work, I would have made sure I had him in my court before moving forward. This is why Mary has repeatedly said Motown would not promote them ..............No Berry told you he washed his hands of this.

If you read and believe Mary's memories she clearly states how difficult Jean had become. Berry was good at seeing things head on.

No that is not true at all and what you said is only accurate as far as
Berry picking Jean to join the Supremes. Doesn't matter anyway because by the night of the farewell show Jean already had a contract. She didn't need to "make sure she had Berry Gordy in her court" whatever that means. If it were just about business and selling records, then everything should have been find now that Jean was in the group because she was a more talented singer than old lead singer. It was about what I said it was about and no coloring of the story or not addressing these huge gaps in what actually happened with facts that don't make sense to anyone reading it all these years later.

I believe what Mary wrote[[ along with roughly 3 million other people that bought the book. Countless others to obtain it from libraries around the World ) 29 years ago this month I bought and read her first book. I am still waiting for someone that was included in the book [[which means not Diana Ross fans....) to sue her and show me where she was lying. I don't believe anything, ever coming from known Diana Ross fans when it comes to Mary Wilson.

If Berry was so good at seeing things head on, then he would not have sold Motown in 1988 for $61 million only to turn around have it sold to PolyGram in 1993, for more than $300 million![[ http://variety.com/1993/music/news/p...ecords-109239/)

Face the facts. A lot of Mr. Gordy's success was just plain dumb luck and much of it was hard work and perseverance, but dumb luck deserves more credit than it sounds like you would be willing enough to give.....

**captainjames** · 10-25-2015, 09:58 PM

At any rate Jean Terrell was recording for Motown singer in 1970 and by 1973 she was gone.

**marv2** · 10-25-2015, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

At any rate Jean Terrell was recording for Motown singer in 1970 and by 1973 she was gone.

Now that is true and almost accurate. She was recording for Motown through most of 1969!

**midnightman** · 10-26-2015, 12:18 AM

Berry was so hesitant to put Syreeta in there for some reason but I think it was FATE for Jean Terrell to join the group. Even revising history, I can't imagine Syreeta Wright as a Supreme. I just can't.

**marv2** · 10-26-2015, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Berry was so hesitant to put Syreeta in there for some reason but I think it was FATE for Jean Terrell to join the group. Even revising history, I can't imagine Syreeta Wright as a Supreme. I just can't.

I think Syreeta Wright was respected by Mr. Gordy. How else do you explain her being under contract beginning around 1968 and not having a hit until 1979 some 10 years later? Most labels would have dropped an artist after 1 or 2 years without a hit.

**REDHOT** · 10-26-2015, 03:16 AM

Syreeta would have been great,as a Supreme,and thats not taking anything away from Jean,i think Syreeta would have been a better team player,you have to do things for the team[[The Supremes)Jean was not a team player,with her bein' that way,it was not gonna work.plus you have to respect people,and the business,i'll say it again,Jean wanted out,and she didn't care what anyone thought.Done

**BigAl** · 10-26-2015, 09:33 AM

I suspect the sad truth was that, for Gordy, The Supremes had served their purpose, racking up big hits for the company, achieving unprecedented crossover success, and serving as a springboard for Diane's superstardom. In his mind, their heyday was over. The group had been struggling for a hit until he pulled "Someday" from Diane's solo catalog and decided to credit it to DRATS so Diane would be going out on a monster hit. After that, his interest was minimal. He had bigger fish to fry by then: grooming Diane's solo outings, plugging the J5, overseeing the renewed momentum of acts like Marvin and Stevie, diversifying into film and television. The Supremes, for him, were all but finished and he'd have been just as happy for them to have disbanded, but Mary was driven to continue the act and Gordy knew that there was still some money to be made by allowing her to continue it, even if he didn't care one way or the other, so he found a couple of potential leads and was content to leave it to the fates. When he decided Jean was going to be problematic and didn't "look right" in the lineup he probably felt that pulling a last-minute switch wouldn't make any real difference to the public and that Syreeta would hold greater sales potential and, more importantly, probably cause fewer difficulties for him down the road. He didn't really fully consider how it would look after the substantial media attention to Jean's hiring. He was basically finished with the act and was looking at the bottom line. When Mary bucked his demand to switch leads at the eleventh hour, he was probably so exhausted by the whole mess that he was happy enough to acquiesce while making it clear that he was shrugging the act off altogether and turning it over Frank Wilson and the PR department. Under those circumstances it's really remarkable that the act continued to thrive for another couple of years before internal difficulties eventually ensued.

**theboyfromxtown** · 10-26-2015, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Now that is true and almost accurate. She was recording for Motown through most of 1969!

Very true. Someone wrote down her name in the session logs as Gene Tyrell! I found that highly amusing.

**captainjames** · 10-26-2015, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Syreeta would have been great,as a Supreme,and thats not taking anything away from Jean,i think Syreeta would have been a better team player,you have to do things for the team[[The Supremes)Jean was not a team player,with her bein' that way,it was not gonna work.plus you have to respect people,and the business,i'll say it again,Jean wanted out,and she didn't care what anyone thought.Done

So true REDHOT
I agree with you 200% !!!!

**REDHOT** · 10-26-2015, 06:41 PM

Thanks Captainjames,trust me,Jean Terrell was a great talent,we loved her,she didn't love show business,at all.Jean could care less,to me as a fan,that's the sad part about it.so when fans say poor Jean, Jean is doing fine.she left The Supremes and Motown,and living a happy life,fans would love to see a reunion with Jean Terrell,that would never happen,because Jean is out the businiss,wants nothing to do with it,and the most part,no one is gonna put up with the different moods of Jean Terrell,not today.

**midnightman** · 10-26-2015, 09:35 PM

I see y'all's point. Syreeta was one of those people who was just happy enough to be in the realm of music greats. I mean after their divorce, she and Stevie continued to have a great friendship that lasted until her death, but in retrospect, I still couldn't see it. Maybe for aesthetic reasons? But I get why people could see Syreeta as a Supremes member, believe me, I get it.

**jillfoster** · 10-26-2015, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by supremester

When I first read the liar's "story" I had already heard it all from Gil Askey, who loved The Supremes and Jean and while he had due respect for BG, he also didn't think much of him as a person - mostly because of the abuse Miss Ross suffered at his hand. Now I don't doubt he'd make a pass at her - he'd have liked to have someone to dick on the road with them, but the rest is hogwash and EVERYONE knows it. WAY too many peeps witnessed the struggles they had to suggest it was a sex thing. And I can see both sides: Berry wanted a replacement for Diana Ross and didn't think it wrong to tell her incessantly to sing, act and dress like she does. Also I can see Jean thinking she is her own person and not into "frizzle frans and frou frous" No one is to "blame" - it just simply didn't work out. When he saw her standing next to Mary & Cindy at Farewell, he could see there was not the spark needed and he was right. Their gradual descent began immediately but was cloaked by their 6 popular singles and many - too many, perhaps, TV appearances.

I think they'd have fared better with Syreeta, but who knows? You can't just replace one of the most iconic pop singers in history - Jean did her best and gave it a great try - but it just wasn't a good fit - why make up excuses like sexual covenants, planned obsolescence and lack of promotion?

Just how is 6 top 40 hits "not a good fit"? You think the Supremes would have done better with Syreeeta and her Fran Drescher on helium voice? You'd be very much mistaken.

**jillfoster** · 10-26-2015, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

God bless you Supremester for a totally accurate accounting of what happened. I too interviewed Jean, Lynda and Mary and this is the same accounting they gave me. Only one person who was around suggested to me that Berry delivered an incomplete pass to Jean. I didn't believe that story then nor now, not with Ernie Terrell in the picture.

Now if anyone would like to foward to my email what said person has dumped out there, I can then send it to Jean's management. He's already in a mess with Lionel Richie

Oh!!! Oh!! Better watch out, he's gonna TATTLE!!!

**REDHOT** · 10-27-2015, 03:07 AM

Jillfoster,you got the right to have your opinion,it's all good here,we all,like who we like,and that doesn't make anyone wrong or right,it's just a personal opinion,ok

**captainjames** · 10-27-2015, 08:07 AM

Another what if would have been Syreeta writing talent. Berry let her write with Stevie and I would have loved a Stevie and Syreeta tune tailored made for the Supremes.

**luke** · 10-27-2015, 11:02 PM

I wonder why Jean joined the Supremes in the first place,apparently not really being a group type. I guess who could say no?!

**marv2** · 10-28-2015, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by luke

I wonder why Jean joined the Supremes in the first place,apparently not really being a group type. I guess who could say no?!

No, Jean wanted to be a Supreme and always made it clear that she was always meant to be a Supreme and not a solo artist when she signed with Motown.

supremester · 10-28-2015, 01:46 AM

Well, we each have our own opinion, however, you are mistaken: JMC had 7 top 40's - so what? They came off a year with 3 platinum singles and hit albums and could only get 2 songs in the top ten - 1 for a single week and one maxing out at #7. All that is great, but a big step down when each subsequent album showed a steep slide in sales. They lost their Vegas gig forever in just two years. The public didn't take to the new group. Hit siongles? Thell that to The Marvelettes or Vandelllas - they had hits and had to work like dogs just to pay the bills. People buy a single by anybody cuz they like the song. They buy the album if they like the act. They buy a ticket if they really like the act. Jean didn't hit vwith kids or adults.Yes, I think syreeta would have hi just as hard on all top 40s except EGTRTL - So, yes, still, a bad fit. IMHO. I can think of another singer who some felt would not make it and she didn't do too bad for herself, so I'm sticking with Syreeta. Jean was and is great talent - so what? It wasn't a good fit. Berry knew it. The public knew it. Mary realized it eventually. It's not all on Jean, however - had there not been such a dearth of material at Motown, JMC might have fared better.

Originally Posted by jillfoster

Just how is 6 top 40 hits "not a good fit"? You think the Supremes would have done better with Syreeeta and her Fran Drescher on helium voice? You'd be very much mistaken.

**Bluebrock** · 10-28-2015, 05:44 AM

The Supremes continued to be a big draw on the concert circuit here in the UK and both "floy joy" and "automatically sunshine" hit top 10 pop here. They may have grown cold in the States but continued to have a loyal audience in Europe and Japan. I don't think there was anyone better to replace Diana than Jean, and I think the group simply ran their course as indeed do most groups eventually, but that does not in any way reflect on Jean's awesome vocal talent. As regards her attitude well that is a whole different story..........