Are You kidding me Sony? MJ new cd contains fake tracks...

**nomis** · 12-13-2010, 09:15 PM

up to listening to track 5 on the "New" Michael Jackson cd...he Aint on what Ive heard so far - Katherine is right they are fake buyer beware..the guy whos singing sounds more like Justin Timberlake than Mj..its so obvious..Im shocked at the level of this deception to consumers..I stake my reputation as a dj and record promoter Mike is NOT on most of these tracks theres a "beatbox" noise that is probably him on a couple of tracks but these demos theyve used were no way full MJ tracks..holy geez im truly shocked its not like there isnt MJ demos in the vaults..ok up to track 6 ..that COULD be MJ but first 5 tracks -no way....

smark21 · 12-13-2010, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by nomis

up to listening to track 5 on the "New" Michael Jackson cd...he Aint on what Ive heard so far - Katherine is right they are fake buyer beware..the guy whos singing sounds more like Justin Timberlake than Mj..its so obvious..Im shocked at the level of this deception to consumers..I stake my reputation as a dj and record promoter Mike is NOT on most of these tracks theres a "beatbox" noise that is probably him on a couple of tracks but these demos theyve used were no way full MJ tracks..holy geez im truly shocked its not like there isnt MJ demos in the vaults..ok up to track 6 ..that COULD be MJ but first 5 tracks -no way....

Maybe it's the Andantes? They have a history of substituting their voices for others.

**waldo** · 12-13-2010, 10:09 PM

thank you for acknowledging this fact Nomis. some of us have known about this for months and months. i found it distasteful when some members here were bashing Katherine Jackson, Michael's mother, for first mentioning this, in a similiar thread regarding this matter. some of you don't have a clue what this is all about. we've had a campaign in place for weeks where we have confronted those responsible. we've been messaging the Cascio Brothers, Teddy Riley and Sony begging them to omit the three fake cuts off the album. SONY want this album to fail in hope they can eventually claim a bigger stake in Michael's publishing catalogues that he owns. Sony owns half. MJ's estate owns half. they want the estate to fail on loan repayments and they've put certain measures into place to set the ball rolling - like leaking the entire album a week ago, knowing full well that kids everywhere would file swap and share it for free. ask yourselves when that ever happened before with a Michael Jackson album. never. and why are there 3 fake cuts.. ? in hope that people will hear about them and be turned off from buying the album, therefore causing lack of sales. Michael himself warned us about Sony's wrong doing and how evil and racist and corrupt they are as a company, when all alot of people could do was laugh and mock him. Michael didn't ride on top of a double decker bus TWICE in New York and London wearing a bullet proof vest protesting against SONY for nothing. he was being serious. Teddy Riley has already been bought. he completely lied on a recent edition of Oprah. he's part of it. betraying the dead is the worst thing you can do. do you not think that God is watching?? these are the last days people.

**jboy88** · 12-13-2010, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by smark21

Maybe it's the Andantes? They have a history of substituting their voices for others.

My guess would've been Valerie Simpson!

**carlo** · 12-13-2010, 10:55 PM

Amen waldo!!

**jobeterob** · 12-14-2010, 03:48 AM

I think Michael Jackson's estate may only own 1/4 of the publishing rights.

The executor's of the estate are not novices in the business world but it's all a game and it's hard to beat "big".

**jsmith** · 12-14-2010, 04:44 AM

......... SONY want this album to fail ...........
Yea, that makes sense.
For a company that depends on making a profit to continue in biz this must be such an effective strategy.
Can't think why more big biz corps don't follow suit.

smark21 · 12-14-2010, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by waldo

thank you for acknowledging this fact Nomis. some of us have known about this for months and months. i found it distasteful when some members here were bashing Katherine Jackson, Michael's mother, for first mentioning this, in a similiar thread regarding this matter. some of you don't have a clue what this is all about. we've had a campaign in place for weeks where we have confronted those responsible. we've been messaging the Cascio Brothers, Teddy Riley and Sony begging them to omit the three fake cuts off the album. SONY want this album to fail in hope they can eventually claim a bigger stake in Michael's publishing catalogues that he owns. Sony owns half. MJ's estate owns half. they want the estate to fail on loan repayments and they've put certain measures into place to set the ball rolling - like leaking the entire album a week ago, knowing full well that kids everywhere would file swap and share it for free. ask yourselves when that ever happened before with a Michael Jackson album. never. and why are there 3 fake cuts.. ? in hope that people will hear about them and be turned off from buying the album, therefore causing lack of sales. Michael himself warned us about Sony's wrong doing and how evil and racist and corrupt they are as a company, when all alot of people could do was laugh and mock him. Michael didn't ride on top of a double decker bus TWICE in New York and London wearing a bullet proof vest protesting against SONY for nothing. he was being serious. Teddy Riley has already been bought. he completely lied on a recent edition of Oprah. he's part of it. betraying the dead is the worst thing you can do. do you not think that God is watching?? these are the last days people.

Did you used to post at the old forum as MJ4ever?

**waldo** · 12-14-2010, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by jsmith

......... SONY want this album to fail ...........
Yea, that makes sense.
For a company that depends on making a profit to continue in biz this must be such an effective strategy.
Can't think why more big biz corps don't follow suit.

obtaining a bigger stake in the catalogues is more important to them than a 10 track album. Michael said it himself time and time again. Sony did the same by pulling the promotion plug on Invincible, the promotion was all over after 2 singles and 3 months in. remember Thriller, Bad and Dangerous spawned 7, 8 even 9 singles in some territories. Sony themselves leaked this entire new album last week and issued a press release saying they were pissed about it.. in turn generating more publicity to let everyone know that it was out there freely to obtain.

no i was Waldo on the old forum smark21

**waldo** · 12-14-2010, 09:15 AM

by the way there are three fake tracks - Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up and Monster each sung by Jason Malachi.

http://www.fakemichael.com/?sms_ss=f...17d4a1ba98%2C0

you could google and youtube that name. there are thousands upon thousands of clips regarding this matter. yesterday Teddy Riley came out and admitted that yes Michael's vocals were incomplete and he had to use the Melodyne process to complete them.. but basically i think Teddy knows he is in deep shit [possibly for covering over ALL of MJ's already incomplete vocals with Jason's] so is coming up with excuses now and blaming it on having to use the Melodyne effect.. ba$ically he did it for money he wanted completed TEDDY RILEY PRODUCED track$ on the album.. and constructed them using Malachi.. for $$$$$$$$$$$$

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101213...m-3334b85.html

**jtf1972** · 12-14-2010, 10:44 AM

I was ready to completely hate the album, but "Hollywood Tonight" & "[[I Like) The Way You Love Me" aren't bad.

**waldo** · 12-14-2010, 06:16 PM

Hollywood Tonight is great.. i've heard DJ's have been commissioned to remix it.. will be a HUGE club hit.

smark21 · 12-14-2010, 09:22 PM

Here's a review of the new album. Some of the reader responses are interesting as well:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/micha...michael,49039/

**honest opinions** · 12-15-2010, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by nomis

up to listening to track 5 on the "New" Michael Jackson cd...he Aint on what Ive heard so far - Katherine is right they are fake buyer beware..the guy whos singing sounds more like Justin Timberlake than Mj..its so obvious..Im shocked at the level of this deception to consumers..I stake my reputation as a dj and record promoter Mike is NOT on most of these tracks theres a "beatbox" noise that is probably him on a couple of tracks but these demos theyve used were no way full MJ tracks..holy geez im truly shocked its not like there isnt MJ demos in the vaults..ok up to track 6 ..that COULD be MJ but first 5 tracks -no way....

Of the 5 tracks you complain about? TWO OF THEM WERE AVAILABLE FOR SAMPLE WHILE MICHAEL WAS ALIVE.

Track 1 [[with Akon) was completed during the Thriller 25 sessions. A lot of us heard it then. A lot of us didnt like it then.
Track 4 was already on "The Ultimate Collection". This is only a remixed version. MJ vocals? THEN & NOW. Ultimate Collection came out in 2004.

The most pitiful thing about this hysteria of "Is it MJ" is the absolute way it exposes people as not paying attention, It exposes people as being lemmings who repeat what they have heard- rather than investigate themselves. It exposes them as people who after all this time with all the sounds we have heard over the years, and all of the information available as people who assimilate none of it. The ones who will hurt this album sales are the ones who post [[quite literally) the same nonsense under different names on different boards. SONY is not the enemy here. YOU ARE.

At least MJ4EVAH paid REAL attention to Michael Jackson. He wasn't a DJ or a record promoter and he may have been a loon, but he'd rather hurt himself than spread lies about MJ under the name of opinion......

Originally Posted by waldo

by the way there are three fake tracks - Breaking News, Keep Your Head Up and Monster each sung by Jason Malachi.

http://www.fakemichael.com/?sms_ss=f...17d4a1ba98%2C0

you could google and youtube that name. there are thousands upon thousands of clips regarding this matter. yesterday Teddy Riley came out and admitted that yes Michael's vocals were incomplete and he had to use the Melodyne process to complete them.. but basically i think Teddy knows he is in deep shit [possibly for covering over ALL of MJ's already incomplete vocals with Jason's] so is coming up with excuses now and blaming it on having to use the Melodyne effect.. ba$ically he did it for money he wanted completed TEDDY RILEY PRODUCED track$ on the album.. and constructed them using Malachi.. for $$$$$$$$$$$$

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20101213...m-3334b85.html

This one just burns me up. Teddy Riley explains a production process. But YOU go further and add Jason Malachi. You phrase it as though the ONE thing that Teddy said- proves the other. No it doesn't. And you know it doesn't. You have proven yourself to be really passionate and reasonable in the past about many things- but you lost it here.
Vocals have been manipulated thru production since the beginning of recorded history if or not- the talent was alive or dead. EXAMPLES? All those beloved Spector and Motown mono singles? We have TWO EARS people....mono was a fake thing- the only thing the technology allowed at the time. Did that make it a conspiracy? Marvin Gaye layered his vocals. IN THE STUDIO! He manipulated them! He did not have a magic alien throat capable of all those amazing sounds at once! And let's bring up Marvin/Tammi or was it Marvin & Valerie? Was that a conspiracy? Or a label using the vocals available and with the technology they had- finishing the job? Sound familiar?

All of these examples are 30 and 40 years OLD. And some people are acting like they have no frame of reference of understanding any of this stuff? This is all NEW! EVIL SONY!

Do you even know what Melodyne is? Do you know the various ways the program can be deployed? Do you understand that in a remix [[which is what this album basically is- a remix album) segments of vocals recorded months or years ago may have to be adjusted to match the beat or the new arrangement of the song? Did you know that songs by Anita Baker, Aretha Franklin and Janet Jackson [[to name a tiny amount of performers) have all benifitted from the use of either that particular product or another one like it? IS IT A PLOT?? And of all of you shouting the loudest now will any of you back off your claims and admit that you made errors or were mislead or will you just quietly slink away?
You know like all the Hendrix family members who claimed that Alan Douglas was Satan when releasing all those Jimi Hendrix albums? You remember- the ones where Alan replaced certain recorded elements [[nowadays we call it a remix)? That's what they said at the time, right? He was EVIL! History repeats itself- just nobody pays attention.

AN ANALOGY:
I remember a story that Bill Cosby told about why he didnt wear makeup on TV talk shows for years. On a Tonight Show appearance in the 70's which his mother was watching- Bill's mother told him "You did not look like my son. You looked like a dead person".
WHY? because of the pale powder makeup- but you see that's the wonder of language. Let her say that now- and someone will come out and post on a dozen boards that the NBC network wants to control Bill Cosby and they have a lookalike on NBC shows to control his image and his $$$$$. After all they will say, his own Mother clearly said "That's Not My Son ,That person looked dead". So it must be a conspiracy they will say.
The rest of us will go on with our lives. I suggest all you MJ conspiracy theorists do the same?

DC

**waldo** · 12-15-2010, 06:46 AM

i cannot even be bothered to reply. just listen to Jason Malachi and you tell me if that isn't the SAME VOICE. even Malachi's producer has grown the balls to step out and admit that it's Jason on those cuts. he feels that it has gone too far and is an injustice to Michael's family.

Michael never had a shakey sheep like vibrato.

**waldo** · 12-15-2010, 07:01 AM

i challenge you to find any non-Cascio track where MJ's vibrato sounds sheep like. you cannot do it. Eddie Cascio sold out his friend for money after being accustomed to a lifestyle of first class air travel and credit cards by using Malachi on those cuts. Teddy Riley sold him out too and went along with it for money. didn't Riley declare bankruptcy not too long ago ??

why didn't Eddie and Teddy PROVIDE proof on Oprah that it was Michael on those cuts.. they sure as hell went on there for that reason.. but they didn't do it.

why didn't Teddy say on Oprah that Melodyne HAD TO BE USED ?? [and no i don't fully know what it is!]. he said nothing about that. you would think that he'd know sitting on Oprah's couch would have been the perfect platform to clear all this up ! but he didn't.

what about the LYRICS ONLY to these songs being registered HOURS after Jackson died. and not once BEFORE. perhaps Malachi hadn't recorded his lead vocals yet ??

and why were all hard drives erased and the final product presented to the Estate and Sony ?? no demo's, no work tapes. NOTHING.

read the TWEETS from Michael's brothers and nephews.. i think they can lay claim to knowing what their fellow band member and uncle sounds like.

**carlo** · 12-15-2010, 02:49 PM

"How can you release a record without Michael Jackson? It's not Michael Jackson. I heard the song that's on the Internet now ['Breaking News'] and I'm like, 'That ain't Mike.'"
— Will.I.Am, Black Eyed Peas, who worked with Michael

"I remember when Teddy and I were at Encore listening to Keep Your Head Up. We both knew it wasn't my Uncle."

"Out of the 10 songs listed, only 7 of them are Michael Jackson."

"I've always admired the talent of Teddy Riley, but after hearing him lie on Oprah I am terribly disappointed."
— Taryll Jackson, Michael's nephew

"Some of the songs are him, and some aren't. I would bet my life on that."

"And as to the vocal authenticators, they work for pay. And I wasn't there when they did their analysis."

"Like I said, Sony and the executors have 250 million reasons to influence the public."
— Randy Jackson, Michael's brother

"I have read the statement from the MJ estate and I have to say that it's just more bullshit! I was in that room, and the majority of the people mentioned did NOT agree that it was MJ! Some felt it sounded like him but all agree that there was nothing there that was consistent with any MJ habits like finger snaps, headphone bleeding, foot stomping or just simple things like his voice asking for another take. Both Dr. Freeze and Teddy Riley sat with Taryll Jackson and myself and stated that they felt what we felt. As for the specialists that were brought in, I don't think anyone from the actual Jackson family got any direct confirmation that made them feel any different then what they have felt all along."
— Cory Rooney, producer

"It seems like everybody is trying to put everything out that they can with him. I don't understand it. It's all to make money. He wouldn't have wanted it to come out this way. They must just be trying to make as much money as they can. I don't know know why else they are doing it."
— Quincy Jones, producer on Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad

**carlo** · 12-15-2010, 02:57 PM

I'm listening to the new album right now through an online stream...and "Monster" is DEFINITELY NOT Michael. I like the track, but you can tell it's not him. It's possible a little bit of his voice might be in there somewhere, amongst all that processing. But to my ears, it sounds more like Jason Malachi than M.J. Same goes for "Breaking News". Some fans say "Keep Your Head Up" is also not Michael. That would not surprise me either. Jason Malachi has this volatile vibrato and you can really hear it on that track. Disappointing. Even if this was 100% Michael on this album, I would still be disappointed. The finished product just ain't all that great in my opinion.

**honest opinions** · 12-15-2010, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by carlo

I'm listening to the new album right now through an online stream... Even if this was 100% Michael on this album, I would still be disappointed. The finished product just ain't all that great in my opinion.

Being the collector that I am- I could not pass on a 7.99 price tag when I saw it at J&R Music World. Carlo? I agree with your statement. Mike or no Mike it is not a good "album".

It is literally a patchwork with little thought given to the actual "flow". When originally announced- this was a 14 track album. It then "shrank" to 10. That is the real plot to me.....with so many hundreds of MJ songs available- finished songs at that- I dont know why SONY chose [[and this is where the real problems lie) to make a "contemporary" product- rather than a historical document.

This should not have been a chart-chasing album. It should have been several well-chosen songs, maximized for the way they fit together and not remixed to be as "of the moment" as possible to do what exactly? To challenge Justin Bieber or Drake on the charts? THIS was to be the first real "all-new" posthumous MJ album. Nobody cared about chart positions or contemporary leanings. This should have just had the ORIGINAL Quincy Jones version of Behind The Mask instead of this teched up "thing" that John McClain came up with. The AKON track was even remixed! WHY? Why give us a song that was just on a box-set and remix that too [[The Way You Love me)? The only song that seems to be untouched [[but I would to dig out an old CD-R to make a side by side comparison) is the Lenny Kravitz track "Another Day".

Why not just give us tracks- some full- some sparse- some in various stages of production and sell it as an HISTORICAL piece? What would have been wrong with that? That is the basis for every single MJ "Greatest Hits" or "Best Of" album~!

I do think that SONY has botched this release- but it's not the first time a label has botched a release is it? You just wonder how such a simple thing could go awry.

Sony may be stupid, but there is a difference between depraved indifference and classic stupidity. The problem though is that no matter the intent- the end result is often the same no matter the cause....

DC

**waldo** · 12-15-2010, 07:41 PM

thank you Carlo.

have you seen this.. no wonder they chose Malachi. it's pretty incredible really to think that someone could have an almost carbon copy of MJ's voice.. i remember back in the day when everyone raved about El Debarge being the closest mimick.. but i think Malachi takes it a steps further.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r...sic#from=embed

**juicefree20** · 12-15-2010, 08:10 PM

The LP sounds like Michael to me. Perhaps in the demo stage of the process, but it sounds like him to me.

I believe that why this may be creating so much confusion is that these vocals seem to have been recorded over the span of more than a decade. Add to that that various problems that Michael was dealing with & trying to find his way into the future & it's possible that he was doing some vocal experimenting. After all, he had begun allowing rap collaborations to creep onto his songs.

The biggest problem that I have with the Lp is simple, it has none of the drive & energy that we've become accustomed to from a Michael Jackson LP. It's as though they decided to put out an LP full of "Heal The World" type of anthems & to my ear, they simply sound derivative & bland. There's about 3 songs that MAY have found themselves on a MJ LP had he still been alive, but honestly, from the sound of these songs, there's obviously a good reason why they went unreleased up to now & worst of all, they don't serve the legacy of MJ very well.

In short, there's no sparkle, no pizzazz & precious little energy. You could always count on Michael for at least 3 nice club hits, but hre, the focus seems to be on relatively bland [[for Michael anyway) ballads. And only 10 songs? I thought that they would've made sure that his first posthumous LP would've been slamming, I mean absolutely smoking.

And I was been terribly wrong! The LP isn't what I'd call "terrible", but it just doesn't capture the Michael Jackson charisma & energy that we've come to know

I honestly don't know what they were thinking about, but there's got to be better material than this sitting in the vault.

**carlo** · 12-15-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by honest opinions

It is literally a patchwork with little thought given to the actual "flow". When originally announced- this was a 14 track album. It then "shrank" to 10. That is the real plot to me.....with so many hundreds of MJ songs available- finished songs at that- I dont know why SONY chose [[and this is where the real problems lie) to make a "contemporary" product- rather than a historical document.

My thoughts exactly! Well said.

**waldo** · 12-16-2010, 10:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVO1cgzQUs

Sony's out here tellin the world its Michael Jackson
They're out here sellin this song as Michael Jackson
Just when you thought it was wrong they go and do it again
...Pushin this around the world today
You know that He wouldn't want it this way

No matter what you just gotta hear it again
Sony's curupt and you know it's about money

It isn't strange if Sony wrote this song
Cause it's not Michael and you know its wrong
I don't know what the Hell they're thinkin of
But they're Breakin Rules, they're Breakin Rules

Everybody knows that this song ain't Michael Jackson
They're out here killing the love of Michael Jackson
Just when you thought it was done now its a weapon
You turn your back on His love
And sell a Phony as Him

No matter what you just wanna hear it again
Sony's curupt and you know it's about money

It isn't strange if Sony wrote this song
Cause it's not Michael and you know its wrong
I don't know what the Hell they're thinkin of
But they're Breakin Rules, they're Breakin Rules

It isn't strange if Sony wrote this song
Cause it's not Michael and you know its wrong
I don't know what the Hell they're thinkin of
But they're Breakin Rules, they're Breakin Rules

On the News today they say its MJ
He came all this way for them to take it
OH NO

It isn't strange if Sony wrote this song
Cause it's not Michael and you know its wrong
I don't know what the Hell they're thinkin of
But they're Breakin Rules, they're Breakin Rules

It isn't strange if Sony wrote this song
Cause it's not Michael and you know its wrong
I don't know what the Hell they're thinkin of
But they're Breakin Rules, they're Breakin Rules

**gordy_hunk** · 12-17-2010, 12:42 AM

Although the album is not another "THRILLER" it sure pleases me. There are no tracks on here I don't like, and I can't tell that Michael is not singing as others have said. I was unsure whether I would like the album, and I am extremely pleasantly surprised, and I've already played it more than I expected to do.

Of course some tracks sound as if they were made for other albums, and just didn't make the final selection - but I do not care about that. I have enjoyed listening to this album and will continue to do so.

**honest opinions** · 12-17-2010, 10:30 AM

My Waldo challenge.

Ten Tracks, and you allege 3 are fake. This means that only thirty percent of the songs give you trouble overall.

Of those 3 that are fake what percentage of each is fake? Is it a word here and there? A whole chorus?

At what mathmatical threshold does real become fake? After you have calculated all of this, please return with a rational discussion and facts that you have taken the time yourself to figure out? After all these days have you yet bothered to look up "Melodyne"?

By the way- I'm not asking anything of you that I would not do myself. Earlier you asked some questions as a challenge. I am willing to answer them to the best of my ability.

Originally Posted by waldo

i challenge you to find any non-Cascio track where MJ's vibrato sounds sheep like. you cannot do it. Eddie Cascio sold out his friend for money after being accustomed to a lifestyle of first class air travel and credit cards by using Malachi on those cuts. Teddy Riley sold him out too and went along with it for money. didn't Riley declare bankruptcy not too long ago ??

On most 90's remixes especially the ones where the music was sped up a bit and or totally re-done [[As in the David Morales or Hani remixes) his vocals are manipulated. A "sheep like" vibrato affect happens when his regular vibrato is sped-up. Buy the CD singles and 12" singles. Listen to those double-pack remixes. I CAN DO IT.
Next- Yes Teddy did declare bankruptcy. Since then he produced TWO Snoop Dogg albums, A Keith Sweat album and worked on Lady Gaga and others.
To back up a bit- MJ was in worse financial trouble. What does either have to do with this CD? Last time I checked they both did what they did for money. What do YOU work for?

Originally Posted by waldo

why didn't Eddie and Teddy PROVIDE proof on Oprah that it was Michael on those cuts.. they sure as hell went on there for that reason.. but they didn't do it.

They went on there to dispel rumors. As well as to continue the coverage of MJ. I mean, it is a new album and it is Oprah, right? They answered the questions that Oprah put to them as well as answering some on their own. They were not forced to. After all- if they have already been paid off by Sony [[as you and others allege) then why say anything? Oprah is a nice lady- but I'd be spending my money on a gold boat [[that's an insider F4W joke) rather than going on a talk show. It might be better to say YOU didnt believe it- rather than your empirical statement of "they didnt do it". That would mean nobody believed them. But people did believe them.

Originally Posted by waldo

why didn't Teddy say on Oprah that Melodyne HAD TO BE USED ?? [and no i don't fully know what it is!]. he said nothing about that. you would think that he'd know sitting on Oprah's couch would have been the perfect platform to clear all this up ! but he didn't.

People dont operate like that. People dont sit down and in one smooth motion discuss every single thing. Look at how many posts YOU have made about this subject. You know, Like Mike sang about that "Man In The Mirror"? Give Teddy the same leeway you give yourself for being HUMAN. You get to add things but want to slam Teddy for not saying something? And maybe he did say it....and you didnt know what he was talking about.

Originally Posted by waldo

what about the LYRICS ONLY to these songs being registered HOURS after Jackson died. and not once BEFORE. perhaps Malachi hadn't recorded his lead vocals yet ??

I do not know this to be true. And if you do, then produce proof. Do not ask an open-ended question and use the fact that you yourself have no answer as proof of something.....
However, registering lyrics have NOTHING to do with a singer being attached to them. You havent looked up "Melodyne" yet, so I dont expect you to look up Musical Copyright either.....

Originally Posted by waldo

and why were all hard drives erased and the final product presented to the Estate and Sony ?? no demo's, no work tapes. NOTHING.??

When you turn in work to a record company usually all they want is the final two-track master. In a case like this where most of the songs had to be remixed and post-produced [[or even truly produced for the first time)- the parts would stay with the producer. That's how it has ALWAYS been unless all work was done in-house [[like old-style Motown) or the contract called for all parts to be delivered with the master. That's not a plot. That's just record production. In this case the producers were already working from demos and work tapes. They had already been listened to by Sony. Why are you assuming that there are no copies of the demos? You really think that this Cascio guy [[whom they did not know at the time) could just come in - get a whole bunch of money thrown at him and Sony not make copies? Lets assume SONY IS EVIL. WHY wouldnt the EVIL COMPANY want copies of these work tapes or files to do MORE EVIL?

Originally Posted by waldo

read the TWEETS from Michael's brothers and nephews.. i think they can lay claim to knowing what their fellow band member and uncle sounds like.

They could be wrong too. Have you ever had a person who knows you or a family member call you and express surprise over how you sounded? How has your voice changed since 1982 to 2008? Because these vocal tracks and so many others you will hear are from that time span.

The nephews are on THIS ALBUM , like his Brothers were on the last one [[read the credits). When you have a dispute creatively on an album or a movie it is a time-honored tradition to have your credit REMOVED in professional protest. This you see, gives you credibility when you start complaining how bad the project is. I ask- why didnt these people have their credits removed?

Looking forward to your answers, Waldo.........this is a stimulating debate. Almost a total time-waster but stimulating nonetheless.

**waldo** · 12-17-2010, 12:22 PM

you are a casual fan HONEST OPINIONS if you "hear" Michael singing the LEAD vocal on these three bogus cuts.
by casual i mean, you think it's cool to grab at your crotch and mimic Jackson's vocal affectations when Billie Jean is heard on the radio. you praise some dodgy look-alike that spins around and around on some SYCO television talent contest and you think it's cool and funny to laugh along with Leigh Francis' antics. YOU DON'T KNOW JACKSON'S VOICE. that is being a casual fan in my book. you have no idea.

for your stimulation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axJDR21v_sw

i'm not sure if this is the best video to watch. there are hundreds. take your pick.

**waldo** · 12-17-2010, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by honest opinions

On most 90's remixes especially the ones where the music was sped up a bit and or totally re-done [[As in the David Morales or Hani remixes) his vocals are manipulated. A "sheep like" vibrato affect happens when his regular vibrato is sped-up. Buy the CD singles and 12" singles. Listen to those double-pack remixes. I CAN DO IT.

i've bought everything thanks. i didn't mean remixed songs. i meant album versions. the DJ's can do and distort just about anything on a remix. there is NOT one album track where MJ's vibrato [[[[[[[[[[shakes))))). he didn't sing like that.

**Motown Andy** · 12-17-2010, 03:07 PM

Let me start by saying, that this is merely my opinon. Second, I didn't have anything to do with this album, nor do I make a penny if you buy it. It wasn't even put out by my record company. That said, I heard these tracks in the studio when it was being mastered and I LOVE it. Around the same time, another source provided me with one of the acappellas. I swear up and down it's Michael Jackson. Believe me, I know Michael's voice. I also know how mixing, mastering, autotune and EQ can affect someone's vocals. When we work on other artists, we are constantly making things sound good. Some tracks sound great right out of the box, but most do not. They need these things to become a record. Dead or alive, this is how a record is made.

After hearing the album for a month in advance, and then seeing all the negative press, I realized how the power of suggestion can greatly cloud or influence one's judgement. So, Michael's nephews came out swinging because Uncle Mike promised to record with them and then didn't. Sorry, that's how it goes sometimes. But now they're pissed because they found out he recorded with someone else before he died? C'mon, give us a break. And you've got two people in that big family saying it's not him, and the rest of them not saying anything. Wouldn't you think if it wasn't Michael, they'd ALL be out there saying somethng? Okay, maybe it's the millions at stake that keep them from saying anything, but then again, maybe it actually IS Michael on these records. Also, Sony has between 60 and 100 unreleased recordings of MJ's. If three of them weren't him, wouldn't it just be easier to leave them in the can?

I personally believe these tracks are Michael Jackson. But because so many people are down on this record, and because I love it and continue to scratch my head over the controversy, I did my own research on Jason Malachi, the guy being accused of recording these songs. Boy was I surprised to find there isn't much out there on this kid. You'd think if you sounded so much like Michael Jackson, you'd have pages and pages of available material. Instead, just fan comparisons of this guy, and MJ. No videos of him singing live on stage, no videos of him in a studio. Kinda hard for me to believe. Something doesn't smell right here.

So I started reading the MJ fan pages to see if I was missing something. Some believe it's Michael, some believe it's not. And then I saw it. One fan posted something interesting that I loved. He asked if the whole Jason Malachi drama could be a hoax? Is there really a Jason Malachi? And the fan pointed out: Jackson minus CK equals Jason. Michael, swapping the E for another A and rearranging the letters equals Malachi. Yup. I don't think there really is a Jason Malachi. Just another cog in the publicity machine to stir up controversy in the Michael Jackson camp.

Bottom line, I love this album. It sounds like Michael to me, through and through, mixed, edited, autotuned and EQ'd. All of it, the 3 Cascio tracks, and the rest of the album too. I enjoyed it. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I don't think I am. Regardless of what comes out in the future on this, my ears tell me it's Michael. If it's not, this kid should become a huge star. But if you like something that sounds like Michael Jackson, then this album is for you.

**juicefree20** · 12-17-2010, 08:00 PM

@MotownAndy...

I first remember hearing the name Jason Malachi during the time that a "new" MJ LP titled "Seven" was "leaked" on the internet, purporting to be Michael's follow-up to "Invincible".

I looked him up after hearing the clamor that the "LP" was a hoax, that many of those tracks were supposed to be Jason & not Michael. I looked further after Michael died & found plenty of info, a myspace page of his & a few videos/audio clips of him singing. I saved a few pages of the more interesting stuff [[well, not THAT interesting) about him & have the info on another hard drive. He was even interviewed on a radio show where they discussed the whole "Seven" situation. Here are a few links that will give you more info about him...

http://www.myspace.com/jasonmalachi

http://www.facebook.com/JasonMalachi

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-arts/20...acko-2527.html

http://www.tmz.com/2007/09/21/new-ja...y-a-white-guy/

**waldo** · 12-17-2010, 08:44 PM

Katherine has spoken out. Taryll. Taj. La Toya. Jackie. Randy. that's more than two. i think MJ's own mother knows what her son sounds like.

i did read that the estate do know NOW that it's not MJ on the 3 fakes but they are scared to say anything and lose their jobs through negligence.. the estate didn't believe the family and thought they were just being bitter when they played the songs to them and they said that it wasn't Michael. they gave them to Sony anyway ?? it's all such a mess..

**waldo** · 12-17-2010, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Motown Andy

No videos of him singing live on stage, no videos of him in a studio. Kinda hard for me to believe. Something doesn't smell right here.

i posted this like 6 posts up. thanks for reading the whole thread, this is the guy you've got on the three tracks.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r...sic#from=embed

**Motown Andy** · 12-18-2010, 12:25 AM

Well, I still didn't see what I was looking for until your post Waldo. Sorry I missed it higher in the thread. The video is amazing. I am stunned. That said, I really don't know, but hopefully Jason will come forward at some point and say definitively if it is or isn't him. Meanwhile, why isn't this guy performing around the world with a voice like that?

**carlo** · 12-18-2010, 01:08 AM

Supposedly after "Breaking News" premiered on MichaelJackson.com, Jason Malachi disappeared from the internet. There was all sorts of backlash within less than 24 hours from all the fans all over the world [[myself included). I remember reading comments from fans who said they automatically knew it was Jason Malachi's vocals on Breaking News. They were really badmouthing him and flooding his MySpace and Twitter with comments. That's when I heard he pulled his official MySpace and Twitter pages. When I heard "Breaking News", I automatically knew it wasn't Michael Jackson. It wasn't his voice and it wasn't his song either. The vocals and production work was completed by someone else. So how can anybody call it an MJ song?

It would not surprise me in the least if SONY or the Cascio's hired Jason Malachi in order to finish some of these incomplete songs. Think about it. Maybe there were originally only 20 songs left in the vault by MJ, in good enough condition to release. Once those 20 songs are released...there's no more money left to be made. But if they're able to get somebody who sounds almost exactly like MJ, and finish more of his unfinished tracks...the number of usable tracks suddenly increases from 20 to hundreds...with lot's of money to be made for years to come. And nobody will ever know. They did it with The Supremes...they did it with Boney M. ...they did it will Milli Vanilli...etc., etc. I don't care what anybody says. We won't ever find out if these tracks contain MJ's vocals. Something just doesn't sit right with me. And at the end of the day...Michael is gone. So whether or not these are really his vocals on these 3 tracks...he was not alive to finish the music or the album...so to release this music is an injustice to his legacy [[in my opinion).

**jobeterob** · 12-18-2010, 02:40 AM

Fellas, let me tell you, an "estate" can't read! The executors of the estate can read and hopefully, some of the beneficiaries can; but if the brothers find their way to a few dollars, perhaps even that is wrong; probably Jermaine struggles with reading.

If we are referring to the executors as the estate here, they have done a WONDERFUL job! A court refused to remove them early on and now that clamour has stopped. They have taken a BANKRUPT and moved his estate toward repayment of the debts he owed in life. And didn't they make something like $100 Million off of a pretty flimsy movie??

This is not negligence; this is a Job Well Done.

I have no strong feelings one way or the other on whether this is Michael Jackson; only the fans care. The publicity will generate more sales and keep Michael in the news; the record company will love that.

But why on earth would they bother putting some other singer in there when they've got 60 or 100 unreleased tracks? It makes no sense. This is like JFK conspiracy theories.

**nomis** · 12-18-2010, 03:12 AM

..It makes no sense but thats whats happened...over time singers have a natural progression in their range...if you listen to MJ on "you rock my world" or "Heartbreaker" he had developed a style that was complex,a spitting delivery of anger..suddenly hes got a warm fuzzy American-Idol -timberlakesque style...No its not him..I started working for Janet in 93 at Virgin..I promoted "Thats The Way Love Goes" to radio and all subsequent singles through to "All For You"//Ive got letters from La Toya from my teenage years..Ive plugged hundreds of singles to radio and Im telling you thats not his voice on most of that album..Im scratching my head as to why theyve done it..but they have,,the fight over the estate is a complex fight of personalties - from Branca to Katherine to the shabby way Bruce Swedien has been treated..half the story hasnt come out yet but it will..you couldnt have got away with this ten years ago but now we are so swamped in the digital information age people dont absorb facts like they used to...this has serious ramifications for the music industry as what you can release as a fair consumer product..that aint his voice Ive got hours of footage of him singing acapella in court over the girl is mine courtcase..that aint Michael

**gordy_hunk** · 12-18-2010, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by waldo

Katherine has spoken out. Taryll. Taj. La Toya. Jackie. Randy. that's more than two. i think MJ's own mother knows what her son sounds like...

The same La Toya who didn't stand by Michael when he was going through all the child molestation issues, and went rushing to the media saying that she'd never leave any child with Michael because ...

Yep, the day I believe her will be the day hell freezes over.

I'd rather listen to one of the experienced record people, such as Motown Andy. If he thinks it's Michael singing, that's more than good enough for me.

As I mentioned before, I can't tell that it's not Michael singing, so as far as I'm concerned, it's Michael.

**waldo** · 12-18-2010, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by gordy_hunk

The same La Toya who didn't stand by Michael when he was going through all the child molestation issues, and went rushing to the media saying that she'd never leave any child with Michael because ...

Yep, the day I believe her will be the day hell freezes over.

I'd rather listen to one of the experienced record people, such as Motown Andy. If he thinks it's Michael singing, that's more than good enough for me.

As I mentioned before, I can't tell that it's not Michael singing, so as far as I'm concerned, it's Michael.

Michael forgave La Toya and was seen in her company many times in the last years of his life, James Brown/BET/shopping.

if Michael can forgive her so should the fans. it's not our business.

yes maybe fans were hurt by his sisters actions. fans are hurt by SONY's actions.

**waldo** · 12-18-2010, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by carlo

It would not surprise me in the least if SONY or the Cascio's hired Jason Malachi in order to finish some of these incomplete songs. Think about it. Maybe there were originally only 20 songs left in the vault by MJ, in good enough condition to release. Once those 20 songs are released...there's no more money left to be made. But if they're able to get somebody who sounds almost exactly like MJ, and finish more of his unfinished tracks...the number of usable tracks suddenly increases from 20 to hundreds...with lot's of money to be made for years to come. And nobody will ever know. They did it with The Supremes...they did it with Boney M. ...they did it will Milli Vanilli...etc., etc. I don't care what anybody says. We won't ever find out if these tracks contain MJ's vocals. Something just doesn't sit right with me. And at the end of the day...Michael is gone. So whether or not these are really his vocals on these 3 tracks...he was not alive to finish the music or the album...so to release this music is an injustice to his legacy [[in my opinion).

i don't know who Randy J. Taraborrelli has been speaking to but he recently said there's only 60 unfinished songs in the vault with indeed just TWENTY with completed vocals. he also said there's enough for one!!!!??? more album. i was amazed when i read this because Michael had been saying for decades that he writes hundreds of songs for every album. where'd they all go ??

and did you hear that out of the 10 projects the estate signed up to do. three have passed and we know what the next couple are already.

[[1) This Is It
[[2) Visions
[[3) MICHAEL
[[4) Off The Wall - Remaster
[[5) Bad Tour DVD
[[6) Cirque du Soleil soundtrack for the upcoming Vegas show
[[7) ??
[[8) ??
[[9) ??
[[10) ??

**carlo** · 12-18-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

But why on earth would they bother putting some other singer in there when they've got 60 or 100 unreleased tracks? It makes no sense. This is like JFK conspiracy theories.

Apparently only 20 of them are complete and ready for release. All the others cannot be released, unless they "magically" complete them and update them with somebody else's voice, which is what I think they've done. When a track is deemed "unreleased", it's usually unreleased for a reason. It's either not complete or not up to standards. Teddy Riley, the producer of this latest album, has so far admitted to:

“The background vocals, some of them are him—because we still wanted his flavor in the backgrounds. [But] most of it [in other parts of the songs] is background singers,” he points out.

"With the Melodyne we actually move the [[pitch) up which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed,"

AND HE ALSO DISSED QUINCY JONES ON HIS BLOG:

Riley responded directly to Michael Jackson's former producer Quincy Jones who was quoted as saying that there is "no way [Michael] should be coming out."
Jones also insisted that he could not tell if it was in fact Jackson singing on the new tracks. According to 411mania.com, Riley responded by saying "Look at his [Jones'] age. He can barely hear you talk. How the hell could he hear Michael? Anybody who says [it is not Jackson on the album], I do have a comeback, because you're not right. That's just the bottom line."

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

I agree with Nomis. In this age of the media and information overload, most people are unable to think for themselves. They read something like, "The sound experts confirm that this is in fact Michael Jackson's voice" and automatically believe it. In this world, you have to stand on your own two feet and think for yourself. Money is the motivating factor in this entire Michael Jackson saga. It's sad, because he's worth more in death than in life. A lot of people who didn't give a rat's arse about him before are suddenly coming out of the woodwork and celebrating his legacy. Give me a break. Even his record label, SONY, gave him a bum deal when he was alive. You think they're any different now? No! They're in this for the cash. They'll do anything for money. I refuse to support that.

**carlo** · 12-18-2010, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by nomis

..It makes no sense but thats whats happened...over time singers have a natural progression in their range...if you listen to MJ on "you rock my world" or "Heartbreaker" he had developed a style that was complex,a spitting delivery of anger..suddenly hes got a warm fuzzy American-Idol -timberlakesque style...No its not him

Exactly. If you listen to the more recent Michael Jackson tracks with his REAL VOICE, such as "This Is It" or "[[I Like) The Way You Love Me", which were recorded in more recent years, his tone was much lower than what we we're used to. These tracks were recorded in the 2000's. Now all of the sudden we have these 3 fake Cascio tracks, claimed to have been recorded in 2007, and his lower tone cannot be heard on these songs. On these tracks, his voice is higher and he has this "overdone" high vibrato. Listen to the Cascio track, "Keep Your Head Up" and compare it to "This Is It" and "[[I Like) The Way You Love Me", both of which we know are Michael for sure. It would not surprise me if the Cascio's finished these three tracks themselves with Jason Malachi [[ie. "Keep Your Head Up", "Monster" and "Breaking News"). According to Teddy Riley, he was given the finished product from the Cascio's and then added his touch to the tracks. So if that's the case, how would anybody know if the tracks were tampered with? Especially when vocals might have been overdubbed/added to the tracks by someone who sounds EXACTLY like him...

**waldo** · 12-18-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by carlo

I agree with Nomis. In this age of the media and information overload, most people are unable to think for themselves. They read something like, "The sound experts confirm that this is in fact Michael Jackson's voice" and automatically believe it. In this world, you have to stand on your own two feet and think for yourself. Money is the motivating factor in this entire Michael Jackson saga. It's sad, because he's worth more in death than in life. A lot of people who didn't give a rat's arse about him before are suddenly coming out of the woodwork and celebrating his legacy. Give me a break. Even his record label, SONY, gave him a bum deal when he was alive. You think they're any different now? No! They're in this for the cash. They'll do anything for money. I refuse to support that.

you've written this perfectly. it sums up everything so well.

smark21 · 12-18-2010, 02:33 PM

How come anything tied in with the Jacksons turns into a trashy mess?

**carlo** · 12-18-2010, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by smark21

How come anything tied in with the Jacksons turns into a trashy mess?

Like I said, it all comes down to money. Michael Jackson's name is a brand. His name holds a lot of value [[maybe more value than any other artist, EVER), especially now that he's gone. So everybody's jumping on the money train. That's what happens when the BUSINESS side becomes more important than the ARTISTRY and MUSIC side. As a result, you end up getting fake albums, fighting relatives [[including the "new" long-lost cousins and off-spring), Cirque du Soeliel acts, impersonators, video games, and any other product under the sun. Expect to see much more of this trashy mess, because more people are trying to get on the money train. It's disgusting. That's why as a fan, I choose to celebrate Michael Jackson, the man we knew and the music he created while he was still on this earth. All of this stuff coming out now is just craziness. It's overkill. Some of these new projects do have good intentions, don't get me wrong. There are some people who want to remember MJ and respect his legacy, but most are seeing dollar signs.

A lot of famous now-deceased authors receive similar treatment. Their name has a lot of brand power, take Catherine Cookson for example. She's been gone for many years. However, they are still releasing books under her name with the use of a "ghost writer". So the book might say "Catherine Cookson" on it, but it isn't her. It's somebody else's writings, even though the style might be extremely similar. In this case, I'm sure many consumers and fans will still enjoy and continue to buy her books. At the end of the day, this is being done for money, because her name still holds a lot of value. Just like Michael Jackson's name. This is why it wouldn't surprise me if SONY decides or has already decided to utilize someone else's vocals to complete his music. People will unknowingly or knowingly buy it and enjoy it and the record company will continue to make money. Most people will not know the difference, nor will they question these tactics.

**tamla617** · 12-18-2010, 05:57 PM

i've read every post on here and i'm still non the wiser.except one thing, i wont be buying the cd.
some good arguments being made tho'

**waldo** · 12-18-2010, 07:56 PM

i think an album where a soundalike would be utilised to complete vocals on songs that Jackson intended to record would be considerable say 10 years from now, as long as there was a disclaimer clearly stating the fact. Jackson has been gone 18 months on Christmas Day. that's as long as a lengthy world tour stretch. it's just not right.

**jobeterob** · 12-18-2010, 08:34 PM

When is this album available?

The Christmas issue of Billboard is out and Susan Boyle is still at #1 on the album chart with Taylor Swift right behind. This is when the sales happen, especially these days.

I'm sure Michael's album will debut at #1 regardless or maybe because of the controversy.

**carlo** · 12-18-2010, 10:16 PM

The "Michael" album was released on the 14th, so I believe it won't appear on the Billboard charts until Wednesday. I think that's usually how it works?

**jobeterob** · 12-18-2010, 11:34 PM

At the year end there is a double issue, and then, there is no issue for a week; Susan Boyle's CD is a Christmas CD I think so it's sales will fall off significantly and I would expect Michael Jackson will be 1 next time around.

**nomis** · 12-18-2010, 11:37 PM

This is the saddest experience Ive ever witnessed in the music industry..as a DJ,Singer,and record promoter for the first time in my life Im ashamed of my proffession..when that Billboard chart comes out I will truly see this industry for the snake it is..That the sound byte generation has truly won...that a story deeper than a 25 secound bulletin cant be told..that members of this forum that i deeply respect are sitting on the fence..that at Soulful detroit.Soulful detroit they cant see the wood for the trees that that God given talent you all have known since he was ten years old dosent have the dignity and respect that he worked all his life at..so he didnt finish the damn tracks then he didnt finish the damn tracks..imagine the uproar 15 years ago if Yoko had asked to Julian to complete some of Johns unfinished work and not been honest about it..or the memphis mafia passing off a sound alike as unreleased Elvis..but now were so flooded by information you cant tell a Michael Jackson voice from the truth..phoney.dishonorable..call it what you want but its happened Im not dumbing myself down for some corporation that he made Billions for..I would say 72 per cent of what Ive heard of the album is not MJ..this kid singing in his place might love Michael with all his heart but my Mother and Father taught me Truth and a lie is a lie..and I know that voice when i hear it and I know when I hear someone trying to copy..and thats what that thing is.word.

**jtf1972** · 12-19-2010, 02:36 AM

Teddy Riley talking sh*t about Q? Q was a full-fledged force in music before Riley was even conceived. Teddy Riley's best song could never measure up to a mediocre Q jam [[by his standards.)

Teddy Riley's best work came when he was working with Gene Griffin. Say what you will about Gene, but after they split Teddy wasn't even close. Listen to any Teddy Riley remix [[particularly from the Guy album) and it can really f*ck up a good song. Yup-yup.