Diana Ross - "Ross" 1978 - ... really?

[RobertZ]

I've always wondered about this "half-album", released at a pivotal time in Diana Ross' career. Motown released the mega-smash "Diana Ross [[1976)", a Billboard #5 gold album and followed it up with the less-selling but killer "Baby It's Me" in 1977. Ms. Ross performed her "An Evening With" show at the legendary Palace Theater on Broadway for several weeks in the summer of 1976 and reprised the show at a sold-out concert at the Forest Hills Tennis Stadium in the summer of 1977, before production of the film "The Wiz". A multi-performance run at Radio City is scheduled for the fall of 1978 and is a huge hit. And Motown releases this album, with four [[4!) new [[disco-oriented) songs, a "whatever" illustration cover, no real album title, and a mishmash of re-released ballads.

One can guess that Mr. Gordy wanted a new Diana Ross album on the shelves, and this was rush-released - but could they really not have found the time to record 4 more new songs? Do we have any firm information about this?

[reese]

What I find somewhat baffling about this album is that there were so many other songs that could have taken the place of the three previously released songs on Side 2. I mean, why re-release REACH OUT I'LL BE THERE, and even make a point in the notes of it being previously released?

On the flip side, it was nice to finally hear SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT and TOGETHER. I never heard that release on the radio and only knew about its existence because of RIGHT ON! magazine. Then I went to see AN EVENING WITH... and the single was listed in the program's discography.

[bradsupremes]

It's not like there wasn't any material in the vaults. There were things like "Harmony," "Go Where Your Mind Is," "Brass Band," etc. from previous projects. Unless Motown felt those weren't suitable for release?

[sup_fan]

it seems as though Motown just wasn't focused. Keep in mind, BG wasn't involved in the day to day aspects of the overall record division. but he certainly was always involved in some way or form with Diana's career. with the Wiz project and other movie initiatives, her TV special, it might be that they felt they had to have some sort of product and quick. I agree that it's a bit baffling as to the song lineup and selection. I wonder if they were thinking of a disco A side and a ballad B side. all of the released side B were older tracks but three of the six were, technically, new. yes recorded several years earlier but hadn't been released.

[vgalindo]

I had "Together" and "Sorry doesn't always make it right" on a 45 single. I had "Lovin living Giving" on the TGIF soundtrack. I was glad they were included since this was the first time they appeared on an album of Diana Ross. They should have not included "Reach Out". It was already on the Surrender album. It could have been replaced with variety of Diana Ross songs that were not released.

[RobertZ]

It's not a "bad" album, just schizophrenic and ... random. There's the dynamic A side with LLG [[which I loved) and more contemporary dance music, then the rehash B side - and the illustrated cover which made it look like a contract-breaker album. Do we know, SupFan, who was green-lighting releases at the time? Bear in mind Ms. Ross was MAJOR at this point in time -

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Personally, I loved the "Ross" [[1978) album and still do in its super-sounding import CD release. I just reviewed the U.S. tracklist to make sure we're on the same page here and, as memory served correctly, there was only 1 duplicate track -- "Reach Out I'll Be There", and even that was a remixed version which I much prefer over the original mix from the "Surrender" album. "Lovin', Livin', And Givin'" was a totally different mix from the "Thank God It's Friday" soundtrack, and although I like "L,L&G", it's my least favorite track on the album. I, too, had the "Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right" single, which I loved at the time, despite its obvious attempt at Country music. But when I heard the more luxurious pop-mix on the "Ross" album, it quickly replaced the single Country version as a favorite. To my ears, the rest of the album is superb from the beautiful "Never Say I Don't Love You" [[one of Diana's prettiest ballads ever) to the hot dance track "You Were The One", which deserved an Extended 12" Club Mix. "Where Did We Go Wrong" and "To Love Again" were equally beautiful as well, and were worthy of a 45 release. [["To Love Again" wasn't included as an album duplicate until Diana's "To Love Again" album a few years later. "What You Gave Me" is a catchy dance track, and "Together" is one of my favorite retro-60's-sounding Motown shuffle-beat tracks of the late '70s. Yep! I love this album/CD, including its fake sexy cover showing Diana's cigarette smoke spelling out her name.

I'm wondering, are you guys referring to a U.K. release which possibly contained more duplicate tracks from previous albums than the U.S. release?

[vgalindo]

You are so right. "lovin, Livin, And Givin" and "Reach Out I'll be there" were two different mixes than what was previously released. I also too love this album very much. "Never Say I Don't Love you" and "Where did we go wrong" are two of my favorite ballads from Diana Ross. "You were the one" and "What you gave me" are two of my favorite dance tracks. I sure hope and wish the expanded version will someday be released.

[Bluebrock]

I remember feeling very disappointed when "ross" came out. The music was for the most part good but it was a poorly thought out release with a cheap looking cover. It looked to me to be an end of contract album and it made me think for the first time that Diana was ready to leave Motown. Such thoughts were removed when "the boss" and "Diana" came out, and it actually came as a shock to me when Diana actually did leave Motown but that is another story.
Getting back on topic I would love an expanded version of "ross" despite not actually loving the album. Work that one out if you can!

[RobertZ]

I admit I did not practice "due diligance" when I wrote my original post! It seems correct that the side 2 material was more vault than re-issue. But my original question still stands. Here's a link to the Diana Ross Project blog about the LP:

https://dianarossproject.wordpress.c.../25/ross-1978/

It's good to hear that most of us at least liked the LP - but I still feel that a stronger, more unified album was warrented at this point in Ms. Ross' career! Interesting to see also that several of us had the end-of-contract heebe-jeebies due to the material and cover - I'd love to hear the current Euro pressing.

[reese]

Side 2 actually three previously released songs: REACH OUT, I'LL BE THERE, SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT, and TOGETHER. I do think they were remixed for this album, but still they had already been released before.

I would agree with those who think ROSS is not a bad album. It just lacks cohesion,IMO. And again, knowing the number of unreleased songs in the vault, it is still weird that they chose to release the songs listed above, all of which had been single releases as well.

A few years later, I was somewhat disappointed when they released TO LOVE AGAIN, an album with more previously released material than ROSS. Of course, Diana was on her way out of Motown when it was released, but I didn't know that at the time. And coming after THE BOSS and DIANA, it was still a bit of a letdown.

[Bluebrock]

I admit I did not practice "due diligance" when I wrote my original post! It seems correct that the side 2 material was more vault than re-issue. But my original question still stands. Here's a link to the Diana Ross Project blog about the LP:

https://dianarossproject.wordpress.c.../25/ross-1978/

It's good to hear that most of us at least liked the LP - but I still feel that a stronger, more unified album was warrented at this point in Ms. Ross' career! Interesting to see also that several of us had the end-of-contract heebe-jeebies due to the material and cover - I'd love to hear the current Euro pressing.

It is quite possible that she was about to leave Motown at this point, and maybe Gordy managed to change her mind by teaming her up with Ashford and Simpson again? Who knows, but it still beggars belief that Motown put out such an ill conceived project at this time. As regards "to love again" that release is more understandable because she had given Gordy notice of her intent to leave. The very fact that "Ross" was poorly promoted merely adds to the intrigue. It didn't deserve to do well despite being musically satisfying but at least it made Gordy sit up and take notice by hiring A&S to resurrect her career.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Side 2 actually three previously released songs: REACH OUT, I'LL BE THERE, SORRY DOESN'T ALWAYS MAKE IT RIGHT, and TOGETHER. I do think they were remixed for this album, but still they had already been released before.

I would agree with those who think ROSS is not a bad album. It just lacks cohesion,IMO. And again, knowing the number of unreleased songs in the vault, it is still weird that they chose to release the songs listed above, all of which had been single releases as well.

A few years later, I was somewhat disappointed when they released TO LOVE AGAIN, an album with more previously released material than ROSS. Of course, Diana was on her way out of Motown when it was released, but I didn't know that at the time. And coming after THE BOSS and DIANA, it was still a bit of a letdown.

"Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right" and "Together" may have been released as a single a couple of years earlier, but they were making their album debut on "Ross" '78. I loved those songs, and was glad to finally get them in a stereo album mix. Motown did the same thing with The Marvelettes' "You're The One" single from 1966, which didn't get included on an album until 1968's "Sophisticated Soul". Was still glad to finally get that track in a stereo album mix which, BTW, sounds great. It didn't make "Sophisticated Soul" seem old at all. It enhanced it.

[Bluebrock]

"Sorry Doesn't Always Make It Right" and "Together" may have been released as a single a couple of years earlier, but they were making their album debut on "Ross" '78. I loved those songs, and was glad to finally get them in a stereo album mix. Motown did the same thing with The Marvelettes' "You're The One" single from 1966, which didn't get included on an album until 1968's "Sophisticated Soul". Was still glad to finally get that track in a stereo album mix which, BTW, sounds great. It didn't make "Sophisticated Soul" seem old at all. It enhanced it.

I always like SDAMIR. It was a moderate hit here in the UK. I think I am right in thinking Thelma Houston also recorded "together" on one of her Motown albums? Maybe "anyway you like it"?

[carole cucumber]

In the 'Discography and Other Notes' section of "Diana Ross A Biography", J. Randy Taraborrelli asserts that "the concept of this album changed many times. It was first touted as a disco album tentatively titled Feelin' Fun."
Four tracks were recorded with Hal Davis, of which 2 were used for the album.
One of the Eddie Holland- Lamont Dozier tracks [[We Can Never Light That Old Flame Again) was considered as well as other songs that have been issued on various Diana Ross cd expanded editions.

[florence]

As with others I was more than happy with this album since almost all the previously released tracks were different mixes.

For once I agree with the guy on The Diana Ross Project when he says he is mystified why What You Gave Me was a single release in preference to You Were The One.

For me the stand out track was Never Say I Don't Love You.

The late 70s in the UK was not a great period for Diana - a number of minor hits and for the first time a number of releases which missed the chart altogether.

Motown seemed to be pushing Diana towards disco but I think EMI who were usually on the ball missed a trick with Never Say - certainly earlier in the decade it would have been a big hit.

Strangely it surfaced as the B-side to No-one Gets The Prize from The Boss album a year later - I think it was worth making this a double-A.

If either Radio 1 or Capital London had played it it had a good shot at charting high.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I always like SDAMIR. It was a moderate hit here in the UK. I think I am right in thinking Thelma Houston also recorded "together" on one of her Motown albums? Maybe "anyway you like it"?

Yeah, Bluebrock, Thelma's version is on "Any Way You Like It" [[Expanded Version), Track 10. I like Thelma's version, too, but, to me, that song will always belong to Diana.

[carole cucumber]

I always like SDAMIR. It was a moderate hit here in the UK. I think I am right in thinking Thelma Houston also recorded "together" on one of her Motown albums? Maybe "anyway you like it"?

It was not included on any of the albums she recorded while at Motown.
It was used as a New Zealand only single b-side to 'Do You Know Where You're Going To' issued in 1973.
But it was included as a bonus track, as Philles/Motown Gary points out, on Soul Music Records expanded edition of the "Any Way You Like It" album.

[sup_fan]

as i've done with a lot of Sup and Diana lps, i've created my own iTunes playlist so improve the concept of the collection

for instance, i created a Love Child play list that stuck to the original intent of using sombre, serious and more socially aware material. using all of the various cd booklets and data, i try to only use material that was actually available at that time of release.

For Ross i created two - Ross, a pop lp heavy on ballads and Feelin' Fun, my attempt at her disco themed lp

Ross
Together
Share Some Love
Harmony
Never Say I Don't Love You
Old Funky Rolls

side 2
Come Together [[using the alt version that was also prepared for Revelations)
Sorry Doesn't Make It Right
Where Did We Go Wrong
We're Always Saying Goodbye
To Love Again


Feeling Fun
Side 1
Lovin, Livin and Givin
What You Gave Me
You Build me Up To Tear me Down
You wEre The One

Side 2
We Can Never Light That Old Flame
Fire Don't Burn
Sweet Summertime Livin
For once In My Life


i've also created Sessions playlists. collecting all of the songs that were recorded either for a project or around the time of a project. So i'd pull in the actual LP tracks, the single versions [[assuming they're different), alt versions and unreleased tracks that were recorded around that time or considered for the lp and then cut. sort of the idea of a "window" into what the artist was doing at that time

[carole cucumber]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;297220]as i've done with a lot of Sup and Diana lps, i've created my own iTunes playlist so improve the concept of the collection......



For Ross i created two - Ross, a pop lp heavy on ballads and Feelin' Fun, my attempt at her disco themed lp

Ross
Together
Share Some Love
Harmony
Never Say I Don't Love You
Old Funky Rolls

side 2
Come Together [[using the alt version that was also prepared for Revelations)
Sorry Doesn't Make It Right
Where Did We Go Wrong
We're Always Saying Goodbye
To Love Again
..............................[Quote]

Is that version of Come Together readily available?

[sup_fan]

yes its available on the Everything Is Everything Expanded Edition. is the album notes of Randy's last Diana book, when they discuss Ross they mention that one of the tracks considered was a new mix of her Come Together. then in Everything is Everything booklet, this mix is listed as the one for the aborted unreleased lp called Revelations which was to be released after she jumped to RCA. i don't know for sure if these two mixes are the same but i'm guessing so

the only song i don't have is her version of For Once In My Life. it's not available yet on cd but was release on some Motown Sing Motown lps and cassettes back in the 80s

[Bluebrock]

It was not included on any of the albums she recorded while at Motown.
It was used as a New Zealand only single b-side to 'Do You Know Where You're Going To' issued in 1973.
But it was included as a bonus track, as Philles/Motown Gary points out, on Soul Music Records expanded edition of the "Any Way You Like It" album.

Thank you to Carole and Philles/Motown Gary for the confirmation. I knew I hadn't dreamt it!

[Ollie9]

This disjointed and weak album did not sell very well and was panned by music critics alike. This was just the kind of release Diana needed after the poor showing of The Wiz at the box office and heap loads of bad reviews. Many of them blaming her performance for the failure of the film. Compared to music singers like Donna Summer were releasing at the time, songs such as Together sounded extremely old hat.....As indeed they were.. Adding to the misery, the packaging was tacky and the only song that might have created a ripple [[Never Say I Dont Love You) was overlooked. Not a jewel in Diana's crown me thinks.

[Bluebrock]

This disjointed and weak album did not sell very well and was panned by music critics alike. This was just the kind of release Diana needed after the poor showing of The Wiz at the box office and heap loads of bad reviews. Many of them blaming her performance for the failure of the film. Compared to music singers like Donna Summer were releasing at the time, songs such as Together sounded extremely old hat.....As indeed they were.. Adding to the misery, the packaging was tacky and the only song that might have created a ripple [[Never Say I Dont Love You) was overlooked. Not a jewel in Diana's crown me thinks.

Good post Ollie9. s I said earlier in this thread it smacked of an end of contract album. I was convinced Diana was about to jump ship. Ill conceived and ill timed despite not being a bad album musically.

[RobertZ]

Piecing together the opinions of these posts I'd have to now agree that this was a kinda-sorta-maybe end-of-contract event. Ollie says, with a bit more "pith" [[!) what I was thinking!

[Bluebrock]

Piecing together the opinions of these posts I'd have to now agree that this was a kinda-sorta-maybe end-of-contract event. Ollie says, with a bit more "pith" [[!) what I was thinking!

Ollie worded it perfectly Robert!