I can't turn around- the marvelettes

**arr&bee** · 07-09-2015, 05:21 PM

From the[pink]album]written by the seldom mentioned[frank wilson]just a cool sound from wanda and her girls.

**Sharpmoves** · 07-09-2015, 06:02 PM

Oh yess! That brilliant album, with so many quiet classics on it. Including the beautifully wistful I Can't Turn Around, with sultry, unique Wanda on lead. Beautiful, timeless stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA0yIhTgYjY

Thanks for reminding me!

**kenneth** · 07-09-2015, 06:04 PM

Wanda could sing all different types of songs, but I think her voice really excelled at the slightly downbeat, sad tunes, such as this one, "Marionette", "The Day You Take One," and others like it. Everything about her vocal is that she's so resigned to her fate with the bum! Really a great performance. And even though their voices could sometimes sound very much alike, I can't see Gladys doing this one.

It was nice when Wanda got to stretch out a little more and she does put over the more exuberant material quite well, such as "When You're Young and in Love," "Our Lips Just Seem to Rhyme Every Time" and their really unique take on "Someday We'll Be Together." But her "country voice" as Smokey described it just seemed more suited to the sadder songs, in my opinion.

**kenneth** · 07-09-2015, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sharpmoves

Oh yess! That brilliant album, with so many quiet classics on it. Including the beautifully wistful I Can't Turn Around, with sultry, unique Wanda on lead. Beautiful, timeless stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA0yIhTgYjY

Thanks for reminding me!

Would you believe I just saw this album today, in a newly issued vinyl edition, at a record store in Los Angeles? I would have bought it for sentimental reasons but it was $35! I was excited just knowing that the Reissue Gods care enough about the Marvelettes to feel there's a market for a collectors vinyl edition of the LP!

**Sharpmoves** · 07-09-2015, 06:11 PM

Yep, she is the Queen of wistful. How about I'll Keep On Holding On? Another Wanda masterpiece, IMO. Or Destination Anywhere?

**kenneth** · 07-09-2015, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sharpmoves

Yep, she is the Queen of wistful. How about I'll Keep On Holding On? Another Wanda masterpiece, IMO. Or Destination Anywhere?

I think "Destination: Anywhere" was my theme song for a few years. I loved it.

"I'll Keep Holding On," also a fabulous performance. Its flip was good too, "No Time for Tears."

Don't get me started...such a shame she didn't record any longer after "Return" except for the Ian Levine projects. I guess we should be glad to have those but I can't manage to listen to them much with those relentless drum machines and cheesy synth backgrounds. Gladys and Wanda are both in excellent voice [[Gladys obviously better at this point, but Wanda still sounds like Wanda).

One of my favorite books about Motown was Raynoma Gordy's book, and the most memorable passage was how she got Wanda in shape for those recording sessions in the 90s [[or was it the 80s?). Very moving.

**arr&bee** · 07-09-2015, 06:55 PM

Yes,wanda's story is very touching,but she's still got that voice...wanda forever!!

**blueskies** · 07-09-2015, 07:49 PM

I think about every song on the Pink Album is a gem. Of all my Motown albums, I've probably played this one the most....and still do.

**arr&bee** · 07-09-2015, 08:08 PM

My favorite girl group,they just had a way of getting to you that the others didn't yes i love the others too,but give me my marvelous marvelettes all day long.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 07-10-2015, 02:17 AM

"I Can't Turn Around" -- one of my all-time favorite Motown tracks from my favorite Marvelettes' album. "I Can't Turn Around" has the same sexy groove ss "Don't Mess With Bill" and "You're The One". Frank Wilson did a great job on this Smokey-like production.

I've always loved Motown's baritone sax arrangements, and the baritone sax on the Mono version of "I Can't Turn Around" was no exception. However, I can remember how shocked I was when I first heard the Stereo version of "ICTA". The baritone sax stuck out like a sore thumb. I couldn't wait for the Mono version to come out on The Marvelettes' excellent "Forevermore" - Complete Motown Albums [[Vol. 2") CD boxed set. When it did, I realized that after all these years, I now prefer those in-your-face baritone sax passages contained in the Stereo version!

And The Andantes' back-up harmonies on "I Can't Turn Around" are sung in a lower register than usual which gives the recording an extra-sexy feel which I love.

Finally, "I Can't Turn Around" contains the most musically-intriguing bridge near the end that I've ever heard. The music chords where Wanda sings "You're My Everything" followed by the passage "The joy we shared no longer fills the air, but sweet memories still linger there. My hope is almost to the ground, but, Baby, I just can't turn around." is sheer musical genius from Wanda Rogers & The Marvelettes!

"Baby, I'm on a ship that's goin' down, but I can't turn around". Motown magic!!!

**kenneth** · 07-10-2015, 02:23 AM

Hey Gary, yes I know what you mean about that passage near the end. You kind of think the lyrics are done, and you're just going to hear a fade out, and then Wanda sings in an even lower register, with even more resignation, "You're my everything..." as she seems to sink a little further into despair. She doesn't just sign the song, she acts the lyrics.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 07-10-2015, 05:01 AM

Hey, Kenny! How's my good buddy?

Yes, indeed! In fact, I wonder if "I Can't Turn Around" might have been a successful single had it been released as such? I loved that track from the first time I heard it. I played it over and over until it became a permanent part of me -- just as I did whenever I bought a new Motown single. It would have been so satisfying to see "ICTA" go Top 10 like "Don't Mess With Bill" did.

**Sharpmoves** · 07-10-2015, 05:16 AM

Well, while we're on the subject of wistful and yearning, how about the longing for a return to Sunshine Days - or the mounting paranoia of The Truth's Outside My Door? Or the anger and bitterness of Too Many Tears, Too Many Times?

Someone once said that Motown songs were really two-and-a-half minute operas. I think that's a very good way to put it. And what do operas and Motown songs have in common? I think it's the authentic expression of real feelings, that the listener can identify and empathise with. In the more wistful Motown tracks, you get this very strongly.

**kenneth** · 07-10-2015, 09:37 AM

@sharpmoves, I think Seeing is Believing fits right in with those tracks from "In Full Bloom" as well. I love that album but think the album suffers a bit from being too "one note" in terms of the content. I was shocked when the box set came out and we learned that many of the tracks had been in the can for years. Many sound as if they were recorded at the same time. But Wanda's voice and performance is impeccable as always, and I could listen to her sing anything.

**Sharpmoves** · 07-10-2015, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

@sharpmoves, I think Seeing is Believing fits right in with those tracks from "In Full Bloom" as well. I love that album but think the album suffers a bit from being too "one note" in terms of the content. I was shocked when the box set came out and we learned that many of the tracks had been in the can for years. Many sound as if they were recorded at the same time. But Wanda's voice and performance is impeccable as always, and I could listen to her sing anything.

Oh indeed, although I rather like the mood of In Full Bloom, it's one for a reflective listen. I am amazed what Motown left in the can, for the Marvelettes, and particularly Martha & Co. Let's not forget the scarce, but unforgettable leads of Miss Ann Bogan, while we are about it. A brilliantly soulful and gutsy counterfoil to the bewitching Wanda. I would love to have had a track or two where they shared the lead [[like Gladys and Wanda did on Keep Off, No Trespassing so wonderfully.

**arr&bee** · 07-10-2015, 10:49 AM

Oh no question,ann was on point.

**daviddesper** · 07-12-2015, 12:03 AM

That three-album string from the Pink Album to IFB were the height of the Marvelettes' career for me. I never really cared for their younger sound [[Too Many Fish in the Sea and DMWB being major exceptions) but when Wanda took over the leads and smoked her way through the songs, they were at their best. I too liked I Can't Turn Around, but for me the major treats on the Pink Album were He Was Really Sayin Something [[far superior to the Velvs version in my opinion) and The Day You Take One. Now THAT is a song, lyrically as much as musically.

I have another question about the cover for the Pink Album. I have seen it with the group name on one line and also on two lines. Is one rarer and therefore perhaps more valuable than the other? What would have been the reason for doing it two different ways?

**Sharpmoves** · 07-12-2015, 04:40 AM

My UK mono version looks like this. I think it's to do with accommodating the wider UK "Tamla-Motown" logo at the top. The mono mix of "Keep Off, No Trespassing" is very different from the stereo one.

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-12-2015, 05:18 AM

Sharpmoves, remind us again of any differences between the mono and stereo versions of the Pink album, track by track...?

Saves me hauling out my copy of 'The Marvelettes : Forever More'....LOL

The Pink album/'long player' was released for us here in UK in July 1967 [[all those 48 years ago.....!) and always reminds me of Summer....

**Sharpmoves** · 07-13-2015, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Sharpmoves, remind us again of any differences between the mono and stereo versions of the Pink album, track by track...?

Saves me hauling out my copy of 'The Marvelettes : Forever More'....LOL

The Pink album/'long player' was released for us here in UK in July 1967 [[all those 48 years ago.....!) and always reminds me of Summer....

Well, I'd have to do a full check [[won't that be fun!), but I think it really boils down to:

When You're Young And In Love - the stereo version has chorus in the intro, as well as piano and orchestra - they sing "young and in love - young and in love" - that isn't there in the mono mix

Keep Off, No Trespassing - this has a longer more elaborate intro in the stereo version, with strings included that aren't there in the mono, then [[again in the stereo) there seems to be a clumsy edit that clips Wanda's first note "Ooo, there's a sign up over...etc" the beginning of the "Ooo" is clipped in the stereo. I much prefer the simpler mono version.

There - I'm now officially a geek!

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-13-2015, 05:59 AM

Once a geek, always a geek!

Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes, but don't you mean Gladys's first note "Oooo...there's a sign up over...." - ?

Do we agree that Gladys is the main lead vocalist on 'Keep Off, No Trespassing' - ?

Wanda takes over for "so girls keep off....., keep your hands off.....oooo, yeahhh" in her higher falsetto voice.......

Yes, the mono version has more punch. Another missed 'A' side.....

**Sharpmoves** · 07-13-2015, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

Once a geek, always a geek!

Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes, but don't you mean Gladys's first note "Oooo...there's a sign up over...." - ?

Do we agree that Gladys is the main lead vocalist on 'Keep Off, No Trespassing' - ?

Wanda takes over for "so girls keep off....., keep your hands off.....oooo, yeahhh" in her higher falsetto voice.......

Yes, the mono version has more punch. Another missed 'A' side.....

Oh dear, of course you are right WGB, 'though it was ages before I even realised that it was a shared lead. Gladys is certainly the main voice, and it's her "Ooo" that gets clipped in the stereo version! Absolutely agree this could and should have been an A side single. It's a lovely thing, gently bopping along, until you can't get it out of your head. But although it's a "warning song" of the type associated with younger artists, the marvelous new-sounding Marvelettes make it adult, sassy, sexy and tongue-in-cheek ironic. It's wonderful, and a proper mono remix is the way to go. I wonder if Motown Johnny would do one of his extended mixes on it? He must have a list as long as his arm, but this needs to be on it.

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-13-2015, 07:11 AM

No problem, just checking!

You said in an earlier post that the vocals were shared. Like you, it also took a while to register with me.....

To be fair, it did feature on a single, as the flip side to "Here I Am Baby" [[now there's another very beguiling vocal from Wanda, but still a track with basic instrumentation which always sounded a little unfinished to me...)

Hasn't Midnight [[ahem....

) Johnny already done one?? If not, you know how to contact him.....

**kenneth** · 07-13-2015, 10:16 AM

And of course the Mono version of the pink album has the extra verse of "The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game." The first time I heard that I almost fell over, I was so surprised to hear Wanda coming in with a second verse.

**reese** · 07-13-2015, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

And of course the Mono version of the pink album has the extra verse of "The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game." The first time I heard that I almost fell over, I was so surprised to hear Wanda coming in with a second verse.

I had the opposite scenario. I first heard HUNTER on the ANTHOLOGY album. And on there, it contained both verses, plus a fadeout ending. I was quite surprised to hear the mono 45 version on my local oldies station, especially with a verse missing.

Re the mono version of the pink album, I think it includes the full HUNTER, complete with the natural ending.

**kenneth** · 07-13-2015, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I had the opposite scenario. I first heard HUNTER on the ANTHOLOGY album. And on there, it contained both verses, plus a fadeout ending. I was quite surprised to hear the mono 45 version on my local oldies station, especially with a missing verse.

Re the mono version of the pink album, I think it includes the full HUNTER, complete with the natural ending.

I know...I much prefer what you call the "natural" ending. I don't like the way they did that hurry up fade on the Anthology [[and on most versions of it I've heard since then). I think "Hunter" is my all time favorite Smokey Robinson composition because of the lyrics and stunning arrangement it gets here, though there's a few Marvelettes songs I like better. Still, a brilliant song.

**arr&bee** · 07-13-2015, 01:51 PM

I remember talking about the original ending some years back,where they fade with the verse[oh yeah]cooler than ice,i too have both versions...marvelettes forever!

**tdoa** · 07-13-2015, 05:13 PM

That one is truly one of the top Motown albums of the era. NOT one "filler" song in there, each track memorable. I still get goosebumps when I listen to it and some of the somewhat jazzy inflected songs on it and great Smokey lyrics. That man is up there with the great lyricists like Cole Porter, Lorenz Hart, Ira Gershwin.

**arr&bee** · 07-13-2015, 06:26 PM

Wanda was just too sexy with that cute little whisper,the way she sang a verse...don't mess with bill...a closet full of gladrags all tucked away in a pad that's swank...ohhhhhhhhhhh wanda take me now!!!

**kenneth** · 07-14-2015, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

Wanda was just too sexy with that cute little whisper,the way she sang a verse...don't mess with bill...a closet full of gladrags all tucked away in a pad that's swank...ohhhhhhhhhhh wanda take me now!!!

And I think by far the most gorgeous of all the Motown Divas...! Even on the early LPs where the others are still a little rough around the edges and haven't gotten the Inkster out of them, Wanda looks beautiful.

**arr&bee** · 07-14-2015, 03:19 PM

Yes indeed,wanda and brenda holloway-the beauties of motown.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 07-15-2015, 05:40 AM

I agree with you guys. The long version of "Hunter" with the extra verse and the full, unfaded ending is the best. To fade out those glorious harmonies on the last note [["Oh yeah") was a sin.

Say, what did y'all think of the previously-unreleased version of "When You're Young And In Love" from The Marvelettes' "Forevermore [[Vol. 2)" which contained Wanda's spoken intro? Did ya like it?

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-15-2015, 07:22 AM

As an alternative version, I like it very much. I'm always interested to hear our favourite singers speak, as well as sing.

That said, I think the version which was released was the right one. [[as was the case with 'What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted')

'When You're Young And In Love' has a dramatic musical intro, which then gently soars away until the opening line "Spring in the air....".

Having a spoken vocal over the intro detracts from the impact required when played on the radio. Otherwise, I think it would have confused listeners...like cutting in on a crossed line [[remember them?) and some may even have sent it up, "Ohhhh, I'm SOOOO excited!!!"...and Wanda does sound as if she's run out of things to say, and is playing for time, just before she sings.

I wonder if it was William Weatherspoon who favoured monologues...as he was involved in the production of 'When You're Young', 'Now Is the Time For Love' and also 'What Becomes....".

So, the previously unreleased version is wonderful, but as an alternative. Wanda's monologue would have been great used as an intro to the song on stage, once the single became popular.

**Philles/Motown Gary** · 07-15-2015, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

As an alternative version, I like it very much. I'm always interested to hear our favourite singers speak, as well as sing.

That said, I think the version which was released was the right one. [[as was the case with 'What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted')

'When You're Young And In Love' has a dramatic musical intro, which then gently soars away until the opening line "Spring in the air....".

Having a spoken vocal over the intro detracts from the impact required when played on the radio. Otherwise, I think it would have confused listeners...like cutting in on a crossed line [[remember them?) and some may even have sent it up, "Ohhhh, I'm SOOOO excited!!!"...and Wanda does sound as if she's run out of things to say, and is playing for time, just before she sings.

I wonder if it was William Weatherspoon who favoured monologues...as he was involved in the production of 'When You're Young', 'Now Is the Time For Love' and also 'What Becomes....".

So, the previously unreleased version is wonderful, but as an alternative. Wanda's monologue would have been great used as an intro to the song on stage, once the single became popular.

All good points, WGB. I like it, too, but only as a bonus treat. The first time I played it, I could barely understand what Wanda was saying. She simply wasn't miked [[mic'd) close enough and the intro music drowned her out. Great as an alternate version, though. And, I, too, love to hear my favorite singers talk.

**arr&bee** · 07-15-2015, 02:56 PM

And speaking of cool fades,how about at the end of thier very nice version of dionne's[message to michael].

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-15-2015, 03:09 PM

Yes, that's another of my favourites. "Fly away...... fly away.... fly away....."

That's five, maybe six background voices blended there...?

**Sharpmoves** · 07-16-2015, 06:33 PM

Probably - it's a wonderful ending I agree. What a magnificent thread this has become. It prompted me to listen to the pink album and Sophisticated Soul back to back, in the mono versions. I can only say they both sounded as fresh as they did 45 years ago, when I bought them on vinyl, although my copy of Sophisticated Soul was in stereo. The arrangements on that album, and the material too, marked a significant development in style and with Wanda now dominating the leads, there was a whole new feel to the group's work. It's a wonderful album, modern and lean sounding, mature in emotional expression, and yes, "sophisticated" in it's interpretations. I like the spare arrangement of "You're the One", because it sounds almost "live" - like they might have sounded if they had appeared on The Old Grey Whistle Test [[well, can you imagine that?). Wistfulness very much in evidence in "Some Way, Some How", and menace in "The Stranger"; desperation in "I'm Gonna Hold On", and "Only Your Love Can Save Me". It's brilliant! Long live The Marvelous Marvelettes!

**kenneth** · 07-16-2015, 07:04 PM

@Sharpmoves, Yes I've been listening to those 2 albums back to back as well. In fact, in the Mono versions, because back in the day I made a cassette tape of the Mono pink album and the DJ-only promo "Sophisticated Soul" which I was so surprised when I found it, as I never knew it existed in Mono. How great that we got these on the 2nd Marvelettes box set.

I think the pink album was fairly well promoted because of the hit "Hunter Gets Captured." I remember seeing posters of it in my local record store in Detroit at the time. I didn't buy it at the time, because I was too young to be able to afford anything but singles, but it was definitely one of my early LP purchases.

I also love "The Day You Take One." A great song. Very much has Smokey's DNA all over it, the kind of sly beat like in "Don't Mess With Bill," the contradictory lyrics like in "Love I Saw in You Was Just a Mirage," and of course "Hunter," "Tears of a Clown," "Ain't That Peculiar," and so many other great tunes. I thought it was one of their best B-sides. I know back then we always played the B-sides, I guess because we paid for them just like the A-sides!

**arr&bee** · 07-16-2015, 08:01 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong,but didn't the marvelous ones have a nice version of mary wells[what's easy for two]as a b-side?

**kenneth** · 07-16-2015, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

Correct me if i'm wrong,but didn't the marvelous ones have a nice version of mary wells[what's easy for two]as a b-side?

Yes, I think it was the B-side to "Destination: Anywhere." Both are on "Sophisticated Soul."

**arr&bee** · 07-16-2015, 08:16 PM

Thanks kenneth..marvelettes forever!!

**kenneth** · 07-16-2015, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by arr&bee

Thanks kenneth..marvelettes forever!!

They'll always be my favorite Motown group, and Wanda always my favorite singer.

**arr&bee** · 07-16-2015, 09:03 PM

They may not have sold the number of records as some others, and thier harmony has come into question but they had that [it] thing because of the songwriting brilliance of smokey and of course...wanda.

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-17-2015, 04:32 AM

To my mind....

The Supremes had style.

Martha Reeves & The Vandellas had soul.

The Velvelettes had sophistication.

But The Marvelettes had....sassiness

**Sharpmoves** · 07-17-2015, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

To my mind....

The Supremes had style.

Martha Reeves & The Vandellas had soul.

The Velvelettes had sophistication.

But The Marvelettes had....sassiness

I couldn't have put it better myself WGB! Nice one.
And then what one prefers is just a matter of personal taste, and nothing to do with any act being "THE BEST"!

I'm at heart a soul 'n sassiness kinda guy myself, but I also like a little style and sophistication from time to time.....

**westgrandboulevard** · 07-17-2015, 08:18 AM

And that's why we are to be found right here , frequenting this very forum.....

**franjoy56** · 07-17-2015, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by westgrandboulevard

And that's why we are to be found right here , frequenting this very forum.....

I think wandas vocals added a very sentimental side to t marvelettes during t latter part of their career, but gladys should not be underestimated as a balladeer either I love her vocals on queen of the fools, tonite was made for love, little girl blue, tie a string round your finger three months, and the classic someday someway and strange i know, i still believe gladys and wanda are sharing t monologue on the unreleased version wyyail gladys on pt1 and wanda on pt2, wanda of course was t perfect sentimentalist on a ballad f sure which gave t group an edge when smokey groomed her as tlead singer, but i have a soft spot for what gladys has done vocally.