Supremes Merry Christmas

[RossHolloway]

Glad I"m Jewish.

What does being Jewish have to do with anything? Hasn't Barbara Streisand put out TWO Christmas albums?

[jobeterob]

I don't really see anything wrong with Sup Fan raising this issue; it's a forum; it's a legitimate question. I'm still going to get out my CD and listen and see what I hear because I think it will be fun to do that.

The only negative issue was raised by Marv and what do you expect, really? Mary Wilson doesn't care about the things Marv cares about.

And it really doesn't matter; Mary and Diana will still get a few bucks out of this CD because I think it still sells a little bit even in these days of downloading. The songs are good.

The reason generally given for not using Mary, Flo, Cindy, Vandellas and Marvelettes on the backgrounds is they were on the road and it saved money. And to the public, all that matters was the lead vocal. To us, it is different.

Mary B, I've opened my book...........Ding.............Dong..........Ding .........Dong...........DingDong; Mary, will Marv be in this game?

[captainjames]

I will always love this album but I am afraid the only song that my ears hear Mary and Flo on are "The Childrens' Christmas Song" but, I hear others there as well. I wonder and would love what Mary and Flo thought when Motown recorded them without each other. For instance Mary was sometimes recorded with the Andantes, I wonder if she ever walked out of the studio saying WTF ?

[stephanie]

I dont see where everyone is hearing Mary and Flo on the Childrens Christmas Song all I hear are those darned kids!!! I think it was Hullaballoo or one of those shows where Mary and Flo look pitiful back there with those hats on and Diana saying "you say ding and dong"

I was hoping Flo would take that hat off and do a shimmy! Im sorry to me that is an embarrassing Supremes moment I felt sorry for them.

[smark21]

I dont see where everyone is hearing Mary and Flo on the Childrens Christmas Song all I hear are those darned kids!!! I think it was Hullaballoo or one of those shows where Mary and Flo look pitiful back there with those hats on and Diana saying "you say ding and dong"

I was hoping Flo would take that hat off and do a shimmy! Im sorry to me that is an embarrassing Supremes moment I felt sorry for them.

Children's Christmas Song was one of the worst things ever released under the Supremes name. The Disney music sessions were far better children's music recordings that CCS.

[smark21]

What does being Jewish have to do with anything? Hasn't Barbara Streisand put out TWO Christmas albums?

Oh dear, you're suffering from a bad case of irony deficiency and humor impairment.

[smark21]

I will always love this album but I am afraid the only song that my ears hear Mary and Flo on are "The Childrens' Christmas Song" but, I hear others there as well. I wonder and would love what Mary and Flo thought when Motown recorded them without each other. For instance Mary was sometimes recorded with the Andantes, I wonder if she ever walked out of the studio saying WTF ?

I'd be curious to know if early on when the Andantes were used in place of Mary and Flo if Diana Ross felt her group was being slighted and raised any objections in private? Or if she didn't care one way or the other?

[olamaebarto]

What does being Jewish have to do with anything? Hasn't Barbara Streisand put out TWO Christmas albums?

Take some fiber, dear. You sound like you need it.

[olamaebarto]

Oh dear, you're suffering from a bad case of irony deficiency and humor impairment.

Thank you darling. Either that or a need of a Midol or a good colonic.

[sup_fan]

Ross - all i'm going to say is here's your timeline. I've data from all of the Hip O Select releases, the 2000 box set and any other recent CD release with quality liner notes. In addition, i've added in mary's timeline although we've all come to realize that it's not exact. looks as though, for some reason, her dates tend to line up more with the dates the TRACKS were recorded, not the vocals. go figure

As you can see there's little to no information regarding the holiday recording. so therefore there's unidentified information which, as a fan and amateur historian, i'd like to learn more about. I'm very aware that often times, dialogs on here turn to the negative. I could be like Rick Beuche, Dan Verona, Andy Skurow, Harry Weigner and others that rarely to never post on here. And while i certainly don't claim to be in these guy's league in terms of Sup knowledge, i will say that i've gathered quite a bit. i love to share it and learn more too. so i'm willing to risk "opening that can of worms" if it means learning more about the girls.

January
1/8/63 He Means The World To Me

February
2/6/63, 2/17 &2/26 Country Western Pop sessions
2/8/63 track for I'm The Exception To The Rule recorded. Vocal dates unknown
2/28/63 You Gonna Come To Me version 4

March
3/27/64 Everyday I'll Love You More Than Yesterday


May
5/6/63 Beginning To The Ending
5/7/63 Run, Run, Run
5/7/63 Standing At The Crossroads Of Love

July
7/17/63 Your Kiss of Fire
7/15/63 track for This Is It recorded. Vocal dates unknown
7/22/63 Mr Blues
7/24/63 re-recorded Your Kiss of Fire
7/31/63 Come On Boy


September
9/10/64 Bye Baby
9/17/63 My Imagination
9/18/63 Long Gone Lover
9/18/63 I Idolize You


October
10/1/63 When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes


November
11/25/63 Honey Babe

January
1/6/64 Penny Pincher

February
2/4/64 Let Me Hear You Say [[I Love You)

March
3/20/64 Don’t Take It Away
3/20/64 Just Call Me
3/25/64 That's A Funny Way

April
4/8/64 Where Did Our Love Go
4/10/64 Ask Any Girl
4/21/64 Stop, Look & Listen
May
Remove This Doubt
5/4/64 Send Me No Flowers
Love Is In Our Heart

July
7/13/64 Come See About Me

7/24/64 Baby Love

August

8/7/64 - 8/9/64 recorded Live Live Live
8/13/64 re-recorded Baby Love
8/17/64 Ooowee Baby
8/18/64 It's All Your Fault
8/20/64 Put Yourself In My Place

October A Bit Of Liverpool sessions

November
11/9/64 Everything Is Good About You
11/16/64 re-recorded Ooowee Baby
11/24/64 The Only Time I'm Happy
11/24/64 Who Could Ever Doubt My Love

December
12/1/64 Back In My Arms Again
12/1/64 I'm In Love Again
12/9/64 Any Girl In Love [[Knows What I'm Going Through)
12/10/64 Surfer Boy
12/12/64 Bikini Party
12/16/64 Take Me Where You Go
Come Into My Palace
Beach Ball

January
1/5/65 Stop! In The Name Of Love
1/13/65 rerecorded Take Me Where You Go
February
2/2/65 recorded Battle Of The Stars, 3 sides. Unreleased
2/23/65 There's No Love Left
2/23/65 It's All Your Fault
2/25/65 Sam Cooke lp sessions
Too Hurt To Cry, Too In Love To Say Goodbye

March
3/11/65 Sam Cooke lp sessions
3/13/65 Fancy Passes version 1 lead vocals
3/13/65 You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You lead vocals
3/13/65 Something For My Heart lead vocals
3/13/65 Little Miss Loser lead vocals
April
4/1/65 Heatwave
4/13/65 Rockabye Your baby lead vocals
4/15/65 Little Miss Loser background vocals
4/15/65 Fancy Passes version 1 background vocals
4/15/65 Something For My Heart background vocals
4/16/65 Something For My Heart additional background vocals
4/16/65 Big City Babies Don't Cry background vocals
4/17/65 Rockabye Your baby background vocals
4/19/65 You're Nobody Till Somebody Loves You background vocals
4/19/65 He's All I Got
4/27/65 rerecorded Put Yourself In My Place

unknown recording dates
The Boy From Ipenema
Put On A Happy Face
Our Day Will Come
Somewhere
Make Someone Happy
Sleepwalk
People
I Am Woman
Around The World In 80 Days

May
5/7/65 It's The Same Old Song
5/12/65 Coca Cola commercials
5/13/65 Nothing But Heartaches
5/25/65 Love You Forever
5/25/65 Don't Let True Love Die

June
6/2/65 Mother Dear
6/16/65 Sincerely
6/16/65 Mr Sandman
6/23/65 Love Is Like An Ithchin' In My Heart

July
7/7/65 Too Much A Little Too Soon
7/29/65 - ? At The Copa recorded


September
recording sessions for Merry Christmas
9/2/65 rerecorded Mother Dear
9/14/65 Noel
9/22/65 I Hear A Symphony

October
10/28/65 My World Is Empty Without You

November
11/15/65 - 11/16 I Hear A Symphony LP sessions
11/29/65 All Of A Sudden My Heart Sings lead vocals


December
12/2/65 All Of A Sudden My Heart Sings background vocals


unknown dates
Dr Goldfoot And The Bikini Machine

January
1/19/66 rerecorded Mother Dear

February
2/11/66 He

March
3/12/66 Blowin' In the Wind
3/23/66 recorded 2 sides for Sing HDH

April
4/20/66 It's Not Unusual lead vocals
4/20/66 [[I Can't Get No) Satisfaction lead vocals
4/21/66 [[I Can't Get No) Satisfaction background vocals
4/21/66 It's Not Unusual background vocals
4/21/66 Mickey's Monkey background vocals
4/21/66 Uptight background vocals
4/22/66 Don't Let True Love Die background vocals
4/26/66 Mickey's Monkey lead vocals
4/26/66 Uptight lead vocals
Can I Get A Witness

June
6/11/66 You Can't Hurry Love
6/13/66 Let The Music Play background vocals
6/14/66 recorded and rerecorded 5 Sing HDH sides
6/14/66 Baby I Need Your Loving
6/15/66 rerecorded Baby I Need Your Loving
6/15/66 Let The Music Play lead vocals
6/15/66 Who Can I Turn To lead vocals
6/15/66 Come And Get These Memories background vocals
6/16/66 Don't Let True Love Die lead vocals
6/16/66 Come And Get These Memories lead vocals
6/21/66 Going Down For The Third Time
6/22/66 I Can't Help Myself [[Sugar Pie, Honey Bunch) background vocals
6/24/66 Who Can I Turn To background vocals
6/30/66 You Keep Me Hangin' On
6/30/66 Misery Makes Its Home In My Heart

July
7/1/66 Just A Little Misunderstanding
7/1/66 What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted
7/1/66 Come on and See Me
7/8/66 With A Child's Heart
7/9/66 rerecorded Put Yourself In My Face
7/11/66 Just A Smile Away
Slow Down

August
If I Ruled The World
Love Is Here And Now You're Gone

September
9/25/66 recorded unreleased live lp at Detroit Roostertail


October
10/13/66 My Guy
10/21/66 - 10/24/66 Rodger's & Hart sessions
10/24/66 The Shadow Of Your Smile lead vocals
10/25/66 The Sound Of Music lead vocals
10/25/66 Tender Is The Night lead vocals
10/26/66 The Sound Of Music background vocals

November
11/17/66 If I Rules The World background vocals
11/17/66 Tender Is The Night background vocals
11/17/66 The Shadow Of Your Smile background vocals
11/31/66 If I Ruled The World lead vocals

unknown recording dates
Strangers In The Night
What Now My Love
Fancy Passes version 2
Thjere's No Stopping Us Now

[sup_fan]

i don't think Children's Xmas song is all that bad. certainly not musical magic. but i think it was always intended to be just a cutesy sing-along. Twinkle Twinkle Little Me is rather inane.

I also think that the arrangement for Joy To the World is awful. too fast, too brassy, too much

so is it really Terry, Joy, Chico and Berry Jr singing on Children's Xmas song? i guess then to be consistent we need to add them to the list of people that sang backup for Diana during her Supremes days along with the Andantes, the Water sisters, J Bristol lol. Or am I just opening up another "can of worms"

[blueskies]

I bought the Christmas LP when I was a kid. Even then, it didn't pass the smell test. I thought something was fishy even back then with those background vocals. It just didn't sound right to me. By this, I mean it didn't sound LIKE Mary and Flo. It's never been one of my favorites. I played the CD a couple of years ago and got about half way through and put it away. It would have been cool if the Jean lead 70's Supremes would have done a Christmas LP.

[jillfoster]

The Andantes were used for background on all the major girl group records from about '65 onwards. It's a fact, the Andantes sing wonderfully, get over it, move on.

The Andantes don't sing wonderfully, except in a few circumstances.... but what thye DID do was learn parts very quickly and work for peanuts. Berry Gordy LOVED fast and cheap. But they weren't exactly in demand once Motown moved, We're not talking The Blossoms or Cissy Houston, here. the Andantes sound lovely in the high parts on the Four tops' records... but that's about it. Otherwise, theyr'e boring and milquetoast sounding, no liveliness, no color, no action. You want to hear GOOD background vocals, listen to THIS:

[sup_fan]

jill - i agree. i don't think the andantes were necessarily gorgeous vocalist. to be honest, i had no idea for the longest time that it was them doing the "ahhs" in the intro Love Is Here. to be honest, i didn't even know those were vocals. i thought it was some odd synthesizer sound, similar to Reflections!! there are times when they really do sound good. and man, the soprano sure hits that high "ahhh" in love child. no offense to Cindy or Mary, but neither had that vocal power. but most of their vocals are just colorless and blah, especially when motown would mix them low and into the backing track.

to compare - listen to the wonderful vocals of MJC in the backgrounds for Up The Ladder

[iconicpuff]

Just the other day, I heard LITTLE BRIGHT STAR while shopping for shoes.

Did you get some nice shoes or were you overcome with wondering whether it was the Andantes and Diane Lewis singing the backparts rather than Mary and Flo that your mind went blank and you forgot?

[iconicpuff]

i don't think Children's Xmas song is all that bad. certainly not musical magic. but i think it was always intended to be just a cutesy sing-along. Twinkle Twinkle Little Me is rather inane.

I also think that the arrangement for Joy To the World is awful. too fast, too brassy, too much

so is it really Terry, Joy, Chico and Berry Jr singing on Children's Xmas song? i guess then to be consistent we need to add them to the list of people that sang backup for Diana during her Supremes days along with the Andantes, the Water sisters, J Bristol lol. Or am I just opening up another "can of worms"

Well, I think the only folk who didn't supply backparts for Miss Ross during the 60s were those who could run past the doors of Hitsville Studio fast enough not to be dragged in for duty!

[reese]

Did you get some nice shoes or were you overcome with wondering whether it was the Andantes and Diane Lewis singing the backparts rather than Mary and Flo that your mind went blank and you forgot?

Actually my first thought was that they were playing one of my least favorite songs from that album. My second thought was "Do I really need these shoes?" :-)

[RossHolloway]

Oh dear, you're suffering from a bad case of irony deficiency and humor impairment.

Aah, No dear. I got the post and apparently you didn't see the irony OR humor in my post. Try and keep up if you can.

[RossHolloway]

Take some fiber, dear. You sound like you need it.

I'm actually very, very regular. But thanks for your concern over my digestive system. Perhaps you should just mind your own business.

[RossHolloway]

The Andantes don't sing wonderfully, except in a few circumstances.... but what thye DID do was learn parts very quickly and work for peanuts. Berry Gordy LOVED fast and cheap. But they weren't exactly in demand once Motown moved, We're not talking The Blossoms or Cissy Houston, here. the Andantes sound lovely in the high parts on the Four tops' records... but that's about it. Otherwise, theyr'e boring and milquetoast sounding, no liveliness, no color, no action. You want to hear GOOD background vocals, listen to THIS:

Well you're one of just a handfull of people who actually think that lol. It's a wonder that Motown sold all those records back in the day when the Andantes sung on almost 3/4 of those singles released back in the 1960's. The Andantes were and are great singers.

[Kamasu_Jr]

I say God Bless the Andantes. They were some of the best female vocalists at Motown. Whoever thinks they were bland or colorless has apparently been listening to way too much Donny & Marie, the Partridge Family and Vicki Carr.
The Andantes were some bad sisters in Studio A.
Bland my ass!
Obviously you've never heard the Andantes sing behind Sammy ward or amos Milburn, where they laid down pure Detroit Gospel soul. So what if they were terrific singers, learned fquickly and could really sing rings around some of the other female groups at Motown. And so what if producers chose to use them instead of waiting on Mary, Flo or Cindy.

[RossHolloway]

I say God Bless the Andantes. They were some of the best female vocalists at Motown. Whoever thinks they were bland or colorless has been listening to way too much Donny & arie, THE artridge family and Vicki Carr. The Andantes were some bad sisters in Studio a. land my ass! bviously you've never heard the ndantes sing behind Ssammy ward or amos Milburn, where they laid down pure Detroit Ggspel soul. So what if they were terrific singers, learned fast and could really sing rings around some of the other female groups at Motown. And so what if producers chose to use them instead of wait on Mary, Flo or Cindy.

PREACH! Totally agree with your statement!

[randy_russi]

Yes, but so is Phil Spector and he created the greatest rock & roll Christmas album of all! Actually, I do like some of
the Supremes' lp, but some of it I can't stand--Joy To The World is terrible! I do like Little Bright Star, Born Of Mary,
but not Rudolph or Santa Is Coming. But, then, that's my opinion!

[jobeterob]

Pretty hard to argue that Louvain didn't have a strong voice; the shriek/yell that she lets out to start Love Child was pretty unique and in the Patti Labelle vein.

But the Andantes are inevitably caught in the war and perceived by a weak minded few to have somehow taken the side of Berry and Diana in the Supremes war and somehow slighted Mary and Florence and Cindy.

And yet one of them might have been best friends with Mary or Flo or Cindy and didn't even know Diana.

Motown Mythology it's called.

[randy_russi]

Yes and so is Phil Spector who produced the greatest rock & roll Christmas album of all, in my opinion.

[randy_russi]

OK I don't know what's up with my posting or my computer--didn't mean to say that twice!!!

[olamaebarto]

I'm actually very, very regular. But thanks for your concern over my digestive system. Perhaps you should just mind your own business.

Well dear, I suggest you take our own advise since you're the one that pull that stick out of your ass and stuck into the conversation with your twunty reply to my post.

[olamaebarto]

Aah, No dear. I got the post and apparently you didn't see the irony OR humor in my post. Try and keep up if you can.

You call THAT humor? My cat coughs up better.

[RossHolloway]

Well dear, I suggest you take our own advise since you're the one that pull that stick out of your ass and stuck into the conversation with your twunty reply to my post.

If you can't take the heat, then get off the board.

[RossHolloway]

You call THAT humor? My cat coughs up better.

Oh, you have a cat...that explains volumes....

[iconicpuff]

Actually my first thought was that they were playing one of my least favorite songs from that album. My second thought was "Do I really need these shoes?" :-)

LOL! You can NEVER have too many shoes!

[olamaebarto]

If you can't take the heat, then get off the board.

Oooooo how orginal.

[olamaebarto]

Oh, you have a cat...that explains volumes....

Oh and yet another zinger. Were these from your old act on vaudeville?

[jobeterob]

[smark21]

jill - i agree. i don't think the andantes were necessarily gorgeous vocalist. to be honest, i had no idea for the longest time that it was them doing the "ahhs" in the intro Love Is Here. to be honest, i didn't even know those were vocals. i thought it was some odd synthesizer sound, similar to Reflections!! there are times when they really do sound good. and man, the soprano sure hits that high "ahhh" in love child. no offense to Cindy or Mary, but neither had that vocal power. but most of their vocals are just colorless and blah, especially when motown would mix them low and into the backing track.

to compare - listen to the wonderful vocals of MJC in the backgrounds for Up The Ladder

The Andantes sing very well, they were very professional session singers. And part of being a session singer is being able to hit the notes, learn the parts fast, and not get in the way. As a result, they could be quite bland in terms of personality. Other than a superlative performanc on Love Child, the most distinct impression they made when subbing for the real Supremes, or the real Vandellas, or the real Marvelettes was at time sounding like Mr. Bill, especially on Forever Came Today.

[smark21]

If you can't take the heat, then get off the board.

Oh, are you now a moderator around here? Is a qualification for membership to be like you, a glassy eyed, non blinking, humorless and very defensive fan of Diana Ross?

[jobeterob]

We'll take anybody here; I've heard we have guys posting from prison and guys "on the dole" living off assistance; humourless is nothing. Rossfan is nearly prerequisite; alternatively Rosshater.

[luke]

Well said Stephanie!

[iconicpuff]

I say God Bless the Andantes. They were some of the best female vocalists at Motown. Whoever thinks they were bland or colorless has apparently been listening to way too much Donny & Marie, the Partridge Family and Vicki Carr.
The Andantes were some bad sisters in Studio A.
Bland my ass!
Obviously you've never heard the Andantes sing behind Sammy ward or amos Milburn, where they laid down pure Detroit Gospel soul. So what if they were terrific singers, learned fquickly and could really sing rings around some of the other female groups at Motown. And so what if producers chose to use them instead of waiting on Mary, Flo or Cindy.

Those Damndantes were soooooooo great that when they finally did get to sing their own single.........they did backpart vocals for Ann Bogan!
Wow! Yet another backpart session for the fabaluuuuus group! I only ever listen to Tammi Terrell songs now cos I know they never sang on them!

[captainjames]

The Andantes were some soulful singing sisters and anyone who has really heard them would know that. Merry Christmas is an outstanding piece of work and "we" loved and cherished it at one time or another. Mary and Flo knew they were not on all the tracks and it didn't matter then and it shouldn't really matter now. Diana and Mary still recieve royalties from this album/cd so I am sure they don't care one way or another. They were used on more background sounds besides The Supremes and it is another brain child of Mr. Gordy's of creating that Motown Sound.

[robbert]

I can tell most posters in this thread are blessed with the season's peaceful feeling...

[smark21]

I can tell most posters in this thread are blessed with the season's peaceful feeling...

In certain social circles, Supremes music can provoke more hatred and violence than gangsta rap or death metal. I fear if the Supremes Christmas album is played on Xmas Eve or Christmas morning when presents are being opened that a lot of people will do a Dawn Davenport to their families' christmas trees and parents, even if they do get a pair of cha cha heels as their present.

[smark21]

The Andantes were some soulful singing sisters and anyone who has really heard them would know that. Merry Christmas is an outstanding piece of work and "we" loved and cherished it at one time or another. Mary and Flo knew they were not on all the tracks and it didn't matter then and it shouldn't really matter now. Diana and Mary still recieve royalties from this album/cd so I am sure they don't care one way or another. They were used on more background sounds besides The Supremes and it is another brain child of Mr. Gordy's of creating that Motown Sound.

When the Christmas album was re-released on CD a few years back, the booklet included some comments by Mary Wilson. If I recall Mary focussed mostly how she, Florence and Diana decided what dresses to wear for the album cover shoot and the memories the album brings when she hears a song while out shopping for presents.

[olamaebarto]

In certain social circles, Supremes music can provoke more hatred and violence than gangsta rap or death metal. I fear if the Supremes Christmas album is played on Xmas Eve or Christmas morning when presents are being opened that a lot of people will do a Dawn Davenport to their families' christmas trees and parents, even if they do get a pair of cha cha heels as their present.

I've come see that these so called "fans" probably were the snotty girls in school.

[ralpht]

I see that this thread is going the way of Supreme threads. Smooth out gang, or I'll have to zap the thread.

[jobeterob]

Probably the Christmas song they are best known for!

[robbert]

Ralph, Aaaaaaamen!

[smark21]

Probably the Christmas song they are best known for!

But My Favorite Things isn't a Christmas song, per se. It's a show tune.

[skooldem1]

I think that their most popular holiday songs are "My favorite things" and "Silver Bells".

[jillfoster]

Pretty hard to argue that Louvain didn't have a strong voice; the shriek/yell that she lets out to start Love Child was pretty unique and in the Patti Labelle vein.

But the Andantes are inevitably caught in the war and perceived by a weak minded few to have somehow taken the side of Berry and Diana in the Supremes war and somehow slighted Mary and Florence and Cindy.

And yet one of them might have been best friends with Mary or Flo or Cindy and didn't even know Diana.

Motown Mythology it's called.

Rob... Louvain is not a BAD singer, she's mediocre with MOMENTS of greatness. In the right song, when she's singing at the top of her range, she's good. But unlike some people like to think, Motown's records were not hits BECAUSE of the Andantes, they were hits in spite of them. But like I said... there were exceptions, "Love Child", and "Bernadette" being the two obvious examples. But delicious mashed potatoes next to a tough, shoe-leather steak does not a good meal make. And why did some producers like to use them? Because they could knock the work out quickly, and then said producers could wrap it up and go home to their families. I go back to the simple fact that NOBODY in the music business was grappling to use them after 1972. Theyv'e never won critical acclaim for their sound in the background like others, such as Cissy Houston, Sunny and Sue, or the fabulous performances of Doris Troy on Dark Side Of The Moon.