What a difference than today: soul music in the top 40, 1971

[tsull1]

I read recently that not one black artist topped the charts in 2013. Incredible ... and incredibly sad.

An oldies station where I live replays Casey Kasem's top 40 from the month and week of the time you're listening, but from way back. Recently I heard May 22nd, 1971. I was amazed how many good soul songs were in the top 40. Looking at this, I counted 17/18 of the 40 as being soul or funk acts.

http://www.wmji.com/articles/america...e-top-12381867

It's too bad some of the quality soul music today -- much of it unknown -- can't crack the top 40, especially with all the bad music out there today.

[soulster]

Bad music is subjective, not fact.

We had a thread about it last year about this, and I recall that it wasn't a big deal. If you include Daft Punk's "Get Lucky", Blacks did top the charts. Who are Nile Rodgers and Pharrell Williams? Anyway, there were a couple of years in the early 80s where hardly any Black artists topped the charts too. Big deal. Life goes on.

[splanky]

Yes we did discuss this, as you point out, soulster and although there is truth in much of
what you say I get tsull's point. Yes, Nile Rodgers and Pharrell had sucess last year but for the most part backing pop artists who used elements of soul and/or funk in their music
but cannot truly be looked at as representatives of either style of music. Pharrell is doing
better chartwise this year with Happy but real Soul music and real funk is something that
most black people have abandoned. Especially the young. It's good as a sound bite or
sample but almost nobody is trying to "throw down" like we used to except still painfully
under the radar acts like Ryan Shaw. Yes, life does go on but your tone here sounds like you
are telling people that the things that gave them so much pleasure and pride should not
matter. I'm just glad I grew up when I did and got to enjoy it...

[soulster]

Yes, life does go on but your tone here sounds like you
are telling people that the things that gave them so much pleasure and pride should not
matter. I'm just glad I grew up when I did and got to enjoy it...

My tone is that we have been here before as far as not many Black artists having #1 hits on the charts. I honestly don't think it matters in the scheme of things. BTW. i'm Black, grew up in the 60s and 70s, and love soul music.

[Jerry Oz]

Things change. Pop music today employs a lot of the elements introduced by progressive hip hop producers in the '90s. Consequently, pop music is more urban whereas most urban music has gravitated closer to sounding like pop. Given the chance to program a playlist, it stands to reason that if the music sounds the same, white programmers are going to appeal to the larger segment of their listening base: white people.

There's little that is unique anymore. I'm too lazy to check the charts to see if any harder-edged rock songs have topped the charts last year, but I suspect that rock has seen a similar drop in sales and airplay as soul/R&B.

[tsull1]

Bad music is subjective, not fact.

We had a thread about it last year about this, and I recall that it wasn't a big deal. If you include Daft Punk's "Get Lucky", Blacks did top the charts. Who are Nile Rodgers and Pharrell Williams? Anyway, there were a couple of years in the early 80s where hardly any Black artists topped the charts too. Big deal. Life goes on.

You're a thread-killer, Soulster. I have to admit, when you post in one of my threads, I cringe. You're the arbiter here, telling us what to like and not like and I tire of it. Daft Punk's "Get Lucky" is a fun tune as is Williams' "Happy" -- we had dozens of those in the 70's, dozens. They're great today because that's all there is out there. Quit trying to kill my threads and saying "big deal." I can write what I want. If I want to start a topic about good/bad music, lots of black artists or not, I think it's an important topic. You can acknowledge it without being snarky.

[jillfoster]

I read recently that not one black artist topped the charts in 2013. Incredible ... and incredibly sad.

An oldies station where I live replays Casey Kasem's top 40 from the month and week of the time you're listening, but from way back. Recently I heard May 22nd, 1971. I was amazed how many good soul songs were in the top 40. Looking at this, I counted 17/18 of the 40 as being soul or funk acts.

http://www.wmji.com/articles/america...e-top-12381867

It's too bad some of the quality soul music today -- much of it unknown -- can't crack the top 40, especially with all the bad music out there today.

I listened to that, and noticed the exact same thing. Of course, 1971, IMO... was about the best year in music history.

[marv2]

I listened to that, and noticed the exact same thing. Of course, 1971, IMO... was about the best year in music history.

It was indeed another great year in music, 1971. I like it when there are a variety of artists putting out good, quality songs.

[soulster]

You're a thread-killer, Soulster.

You gotta admit i'm good at what I do! Seriously, i'm a lot better than those Supremes/Dians Ross trolls who hijack every thread, and every thread they take over digresses into Marv-bashing.

I have to admit, when you post in one of my threads, I cringe. You're the arbiter here, telling us what to like and not like and I tire of it.

I'm allowed an opinion just like you. I don't tell anyone what like or not. Don't blame me if you are so unsure of your opinions that you can't tolerate different opinions. I didn't know this place was an arm of Fox news. I do offer a different opinion on things because perhaps I come from a different life experience than the lot of you. If anything, you guys are quite clannish in the way you communicate with each other, and unwelcoming to those who don't quite adhere to the party line.

You may wonder, then, why I stick around. Well, it's because we do discuss soul music, which is kind of rare on the internet, even today. We also enjoy a certain latitude in discussing off-topic issues as well. Oh, I understand: it's tribal. It is heresy to come into a small group and dare to have a different [[unique) viewpoint. Yes, in that sense, I probably rock the boat a bit. WEll, I sense that a few of you probably want me out of here. No, I won't leave if it spites you. And, you don't really want me out of here, because that would worsen the ratio of all those crazy Ross fand that are determined to hijack the entire forum with nothing but frivolous posts like seeing Diana Ross walk into a restroom. You would also have fewer people to kick around.

No, I will not conform to the secret club and do the secret handshake. I will continue to have an independent opinion.

Daft Punk's "Get Lucky" is a fun tune as is Williams' "Happy" -- we had dozens of those in the 70's, dozens. They're great today because that's all there is out there. Quit trying to kill my threads and saying "big deal."

I don't kill threads. Anyone is able to respond in any thread I am in. You can interact with me. You can agree or disagree. But, do it respectfully, and I will do likewise in return. But, give me shit, and I will shoot it back to you with a cannon. You can even ignore me, which I am sure plenty of you do. Well, I ignore people here too.

Message boards like this are public. Yes, we have to sign up and be approved, but anyone who does come in has a right to an opinion. Someone reading this forum likes things I have to say, and some don't.

I can write what I want. If I want to start a topic about good/bad music, lots of black artists or not, I think it's an important topic. You can acknowledge it without being snarky.

Neither I, or anyone else ever, ever said you, or anyone else, couldn't start any thread you like. But, I would love for these Ross fans to take it a little easier on the number of their threads.

[skooldem1]

I'm always baffled by the people that complain about Ross/Supreme's threads yet continue to bring her/them up in threads that have nothing to do with them.

[skooldem1]

I didn't understand the big deal about no number one records last year by a "black" artist on the hot 100. Like was mentioned, "Get lucky" featured Pharrell, and "Blurred Lines" featured Pharrell and T.I. It is not like during that whole year there were no black artist on the charts at all either.

[skooldem1]

Why are we looking for soul artist to chart on the pop/hot 100 chart anyway? If you are looking for soul artist on the chart check the R&B chart. With that said, there is no denying that there was some great music released in 71.

[Crystaledwards]

You gotta admit i'm good at what I do! Seriously, i'm a lot better than those Supremes/Dians Ross trolls who hijack every thread, and every thread they take over digresses into Marv-bashing.

I'm allowed an opinion just like you. I don't tell anyone what like or not. Don't blame me if you are so unsure of your opinions that you can't tolerate different opinions. I didn't know this place was an arm of Fox news. I do offer a different opinion on things because perhaps I come from a different life experience than the lot of you. If anything, you guys are quite clannish in the way you communicate with each other, and unwelcoming to those who don't quite adhere to the party line.

You may wonder, then, why I stick around. Well, it's because we do discuss soul music, which is kind of rare on the internet, even today. We also enjoy a certain latitude in discussing off-topic issues as well. Oh, I understand: it's tribal. It is heresy to come into a small group and fare to have a different [[unique) viewpoint. Yes, in that sense, I probably rock the boat a bit. WEll, I sense that a few of you probably want me out of here. No, I won't leave if it spites you. And, you don't really want me out of here, because that would worsen the ratio of all those crazy Ross fand that are determined to hijack the entire forum with nothing but frivolous posts like seeing Diana Ross walk into a restroom. You would also have fewer people to kick around.

No, I will not conform to the secret club and do the secret handshake. I will continue to have an independent opinion.

I don't kill threads. Anyone is able to respond in any thread I am in. You can interact with me. You can agree or disagree. But, do it respectfully, and I will do likewise in return. But, give me shit, and I will shoot it back to you with a cannon. You can even ignore me, which I am sure plenty of you do. Well, I ignore people here too.

Message boards like this are public. Yes, we have to sign up and be approved, but anyone who does come in has a right to an opinion. Someone reading this forum likes things I have to say, and some don't.

Neither I, or anyone else ever, ever said you, or anyone else, couldn't start any thread you like. But, I would love for these Ross fans to take it a little easier on the number of their threads.

Calling members trolls and crazy is not only disingenuous, but disrespectful and hypocritical, especially when you request that others discuss or debate things respectfully.

Since you are the one who mentioned Marv, I have to say that your devotion and defense of Marv is rather misguided in my opinion. Marv has perfected the art of playing the victim and has fooled himself, and you, into thinking that it is an effective tactic. Every single time Marvin is confronted about malicious behavior he always turns the tables to make Marv the injured party. Which is terribly convenient, but not really fooling anyone. One would think he should be tired of always being embroiled in a never-ending cycle of dishonorable behavior. Sometimes, despondency is nature's way of telling us that we simply can't go on doing as we have been and need to change course. It is never to late to change.

Like you said earlier Soulster, anyone who does come in here has a right to an opinion. And like you, some reading this forum like things I have to say, and some don't.

CE

[marv2]

Calling members trolls and crazy is not only disingenuous, but disrespectful and hypocritical, especially when you request that others discuss or debate things respectfully.

Try telling that to your friend RossHolloway. He regularly calls me a troll and I never say anything to him. I have never seen where you have admonished him for doing that.

Since you are the one who mentioned Marv, I have to say that your devotion and defense of Marv is rather misguided in my opinion. Marv has perfected the art of playing the victim and has fooled himself, and you, into thinking that it is an effective tactic. Every single time Marvin is confronted about malicious behavior he always turns the tables to make Marv the injured party. Which is terribly convenient, but not really fooling anyone. One would think he should be tired of always being embroiled in a never-ending cycle of dishonorable behavior. Sometimes, despondency is nature's way of telling us that we simply can't go on doing as we have been and need to change course. It is never to late to change.

[SIZE=4You don't know me and you need to stop talking about me. I am getting about fed up with you CrystalEdwards slandering me every opportunity you get all over this forum! Ralph asked you nicely just last week when you were harping on you believe you have met me in real time and you have not. You keep slandering me and you are going to see trouble. Keep it up! ]

Like you said earlier Soulster, anyone who does come in here has a right to an opinion. And like you, some reading this forum like things I have to say, and some don't.

CE

An opinion does not mean you have the right to slander other forum members. Members/People you DO NOT KNOW! I am not going to go for it, so if you think you can keep getting away with it, try it!!!

[/SIZE]

.................................................. .............................

[Crystaledwards]

Oh but I do know you Marvin and have photos from the Sugar bar and BB King's to prove that we know each other. I even offered to e-mail you photos to rest my case. Don't you recall me respectfully asking you last week if you were still using the AOL e-mail address you gave me many years ago? I have yet to receive a response.

To slander someone is the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. I have never been injurious to you Marvin and since the whole point of a defamation case is to take care of injuries to reputation, those suing for defamation must show how their reputations were hurt by slanderous statements. It just wouldn't fly criminally or civilly. I hate to tell you this sweetheart, but you have done more than enough damage to your reputation as your 12 year history here can attest.

Speaking of slanderous statements, haven't you made some very false but libelous accusations about Berry Gordy and Diana Ross over the years?

Now let us be big boys and girls and leave Ralph out of this. You are starting to overplay that card and it's becoming a tad tiresome.

FYI, RossHolloway is not my friend in fact I don't even know the person you speak of.

CE

[soulster]

I'm always baffled by the people that complain about Ross/Supreme's threads yet continue to bring her/them up in threads that have nothing to do with them.

Just wondering why some dude gets upset with my posts when there issues bigger than me around here. Just using the Ross people as a prime example.

I didn't understand the big deal about no number one records last year by a "black" artist on the hot 100. Like was mentioned, "Get lucky" featured Pharrell, and "Blurred Lines" featured Pharrell and T.I. It is not like during that whole year there were no black artist on the charts at all either.

This is probably one of the rare times you and I agree on something.

[Crystaledwards]

Just wondering why some dude gets upset with my posts when there issues bigger than me around here.

Truer words have never been written.

CE

[soulster]

Truer words have never been written.

CE

And YOU are back on my ignore list.

[Crystaledwards]

And YOU are back on my ignore list.

Which once again proves that blessings come in many forms.

Thank you.

CE

[Sotosound]

I used to love SDF. It was my first foray into music forums and it was my first chance to get answers to questions that had been in my mind for 40 years.

We even had contributions from original Funk Brothers and other Motown and soul luminaries.

Having Dennis Coffey personally telling me why and how Motown used two drummers for most sessions from Cloud Nine onwards was a real thrill.

Finding out about Duplicate Master Numbers was a tremendous thing since I could suddenly find out who engineered and mixed some of my favourite Motown singles.

But that was then......

When I read the first post of this thread I was looking forward to a discussion about soul music from 1971 but, instead, we ended up with a slanging match between various forum members in front of the whole world.

One member kicked it off and then others - all of whom had the option to turn the other cheek - joined in.

Anyone in the world can read this forum, not just the thread contributors, and I hate to think what some of them must think when they read this kind of stuff.

This forum has clearly lost its way and I'm now almost ashamed to be an SDF member.

I joined SDF out of a love for Motown and other soul music, not to read about people slagging each other off.

[Amithesameboy]

I used to love SDF. It was my first foray into music forums and it was my first chance to get answers to questions that had been in my mind for 40 years.

We even had contributions from original Funk Brothers and other Motown and soul luminaries.

Having Dennis Coffey personally telling me why and how Motown used two drummers for most sessions from Cloud Nine onwards was a real thrill.

Finding out about Duplicate Master Numbers was a tremendous thing since I could suddenly find out who engineered and mixed some of my favourite Motown singles.

But that was then......

When I read the first post of this thread I was looking forward to a discussion about soul music from 1971 but, instead, we ended up with a slanging match between various forum members in front of the whole world.

One member kicked it off and then others - all of whom had the option to turn the other cheek - joined in.

Anyone in the world can read this forum, not just the thread contributors, and I hate to think what some of them must think when they read this kind of stuff.

This forum has clearly lost its way and I'm now almost ashamed to be an SDF member.

I joined SDF out of a love for Motown and other soul music, not to read about people slagging each other off.

I agree with the above. My own very low number of posts is due to the fact that about 80% of the posts on here are of no interest to me at all, and a huge percentage don't even have anything to do with soul music.

When I was young I promised myself i would never be consumed by nostalgia or feel sorry for myself. Two credos Ive managed to hold onto for decades, Im pleased to say.

My much more recent promise to myself is never to be someone who carries out constant bickering and sniping on the internet. There is nothing wrong at all about making a point you wish to make and then get the hell out. Or having a spirited and intelligent debate. On the other hand resorting to personal insults or having to have the last word on an internet spat are truly saddening spectacles.

[soulster]

I used to love SDF. It was my first foray into music forums and it was my first chance to get answers to questions that had been in my mind for 40 years.

We even had contributions from original Funk Brothers and other Motown and soul luminaries.

Having Dennis Coffey personally telling me why and how Motown used two drummers for most sessions from Cloud Nine onwards was a real thrill.

Finding out about Duplicate Master Numbers was a tremendous thing since I could suddenly find out who engineered and mixed some of my favourite Motown singles.

But that was then......

When I read the first post of this thread I was looking forward to a discussion about soul music from 1971 but, instead, we ended up with a slanging match between various forum members in front of the whole world.

One member kicked it off and then others - all of whom had the option to turn the other cheek - joined in.

Anyone in the world can read this forum, not just the thread contributors, and I hate to think what some of them must think when they read this kind of stuff.

This forum has clearly lost its way and I'm now almost ashamed to be an SDF member.

I joined SDF out of a love for Motown and other soul music, not to read about people slagging each other off.

I agree!

I posted my opinion about the race angle of the thread, keeping in to the music, and what did we get? The thread starter himself taking it to personal level, derailing his own thread!

I also miss getting all that cool information on this forum. But, now, it's nothing but a few people totally obsessed with a diva, and bickering.

[Jerry Oz]

If the personal stuff was so important, you guys would be PMing each other instead of sharing it publicly. It's too bad that another promising thread will fall to the side without discussion of the topic beyond the top five or so posts. I like a lot of posters on this board because I have come to recognize them through their "voice" and I can appreciate the differences between their opinions and my own. I either take them with a grain of salt or engage them on the merits of what they post.

Splanky's admonition of soulster [[post #3) is what took this thing off track and soulster's self-defense [[post #4) was the nail in the coffin. It's too easy to ignore what people post; forget the "tone" or attitude. It's just somebody's opinion and if left alone, it will be a small blot on a page of the internet and not something that should make blood pressures rise. Can't we all just get along?

[soulster]

People don't want to send personal messages because they want to grandstand. They want everyone to see what they're thinking so they can get that slap on the back. Again, it's tribal. They want public condemnation of their advisories.

Now, you see, tsull1's thread could have gone on about music, but he, himself, decided to change the direction of it. And, somehow, he tries to blame me for it.

Splanky's admonition of soulster [[post #3) is what took this thing off track and soulster's self-defense [[post #4) was the nail in the coffin.

Splanky didn't derail it. He was trying to get it back on track. But, I think he was mistaken in agreeing that I "ruin" threads. There are a lot of other things on this forum that ruin threads, and I ain't one of them. Now, some of you may not like it if I mention sound quality issues. If you call that ruining a thread, it may be your personal problem.

[jobeterob]

People appear happier discussing Diana Ross's potato chip eating habits.

Remember nothing really turns on whether you like each other, what you want to talk or read about or whether she should be called Miss Ross ~ or the popular music of 1971 vs. 2014.

Happy is a pretty darn good song. Yah Pharrell.

[Jerry Oz]

Splanky didn't derail it. He was trying to get it back on track. But, I think he was mistaken in agreeing that I "ruin" threads. There are a lot of other things on this forum that ruin threads, and I ain't one of them. Now, some of you may not like it if I mention sound quality issues. If you call that ruining a thread, it may be your personal problem.

Then I stand corrected. I still think that if posters want to rail against each other, they should do it via PM instead of hijacking a thread. It's too easy to ignore perceived stupidity and arrogance.

[soulster]

I think most of those forum's problems come from members not knowing how to keep it impersonal. That doesn't just go for the usual rabble rousers, but for a lot of the veterans too.

Some people don't know how to constructively and diplomatically complain or criticize without bashing someone in the process. And, now, we have a case where people constantly attack certain other individuals as a matter of routine. Then, before you know it, there's a pile-on. And, the original topic? Forget about it! No cares anymore.

About me bashing the obsessed Ross fans, you say? It's probably only one or two people causing 99% of the problems, and one with multiple accounts that Ralph hasn't banned. And, yeah, look up the definition of the word "obsession". It's not meant to be an insult, but describes the behavior of particular people obsessed with a certain female singer. And, frankly, I don't care what turns them on, but don't troll every thread with it. Yeah, we can walk around those threads clearly marked as such, but you can only drive around a pothole so much before you get sick of it.

The derailment of a thread is probably more exciting to some people, and less likely to get Ralph's attention because he sees a totally innocuous thread title. or, that's their hope. I get the impression that that some people like making personal attacks because that's the only joy they get in life. They are trolling. Yes, trolling! They get their kicks stirring up trouble behind a keyboard.

Now, when I made my initial post, in no way did I ever make it personal. I kept to the topic. It was someone else who took it to the personal level.

I made my point.

[soulster]

Then I stand corrected. I still think that if posters want to rail against each other, they should do it via PM instead of hijacking a thread. It's too easy to ignore perceived stupidity and arrogance.

People should resolve personal issues in private, but they like an audience. Why do they want that audience? Hmmmm...

[Jerry Oz]

To give me a headache? That's got to be it...

[splanky]

Personally, I really don't give a moose booty about charts and award shows as far as artists
are concerned. Geez, some folks around here who I thought were more perceptive are really misreading me. I simply share with tsull the fact that we both miss the time when a
singer or two, male or female, fronted a live band that played real musical instruments to an eager audience was a common thing. I disagree with tsull on a few things I know, but
I respect his right to have an opinion as I know I, myself have been at times not only mistaken, but flat out wrong. I think furthering the notion that most of the members who
don't necessarily jump to new music offerings are obcessed with this or that "diva" is wrong
too. I have no such sole focus; as much as I still feel the loss of i.e. Jessica Cleaves, Abbey Lincoln, Chiwoniso Maraire or others I've loved to listen over the years, I absorb new music
continously. I came here for the music. Just that. I have no personal agendas with anyone here. I miss when we all could come and talk about the music......

[Jerry Oz]

Splanky, society is homogenized and still as segregated as ever. From a cultural standpoint, including music, things are being borrowed and shared at a record rate. Usher Raymond produced Justin Bieber with the same mindset that Colonel Parker had with Elvis. You know, "Give me a white boy who sounds black and I'll make a million dollars." Now, Bieber doesn't sound Black [[thank you, Lord), but the production that he enjoyed in his rise to stardom is similar to that of mainstream Black artists.

There should be no surprise that Black faces are underrepresented in musical charts. We're trying to sound like them, they're trying to sound like us, and the limited amount of money being spent on songs is going to the safe choice of what to play in the typical suburban 98% white high school lunchroom. In the words of Paul Mooney [[as the prophet "Negrodamus"), "Everybody wants to be a n*gga, but nobody wants to be a n*gger." That's a blunt [[and true) as I can state my opinion on it.

[tamla617]

This thread had all the chances of being a good one. It was a good year for soul in the UK.
Then we get abrasive opinions [[and they're meant to be) and the old have a go at Marv crap. You need to pack that in. Haven't found out? Everything you chuck at him bounces off? Wasting your and our time wading through it.
If a thread is repeating and older thread whats the problem? You can give the link for it [[helpfull) but don't bother giving us a shrink's version of events.

Back to 1971
I just said it was a good year
There are only 8 on there I bought, cant remember some of it.
There were some more over here.
Tams Hey girl don't bother me
Delfonics Didn't I blow your mind
Tammi Lynn I'm gonna runaway from you [[a hoo)
Drifters Saturday night at the movies
Jamo Thomas I spy for the FBI

Here is the track listing [[British) Motown Chrtbusters Vol 5
Some were released in late 70. 1971 we got two Charbuster albums. I think it was the only year this happened, definately the first time.
1."The Tears of a Clown" - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles #1
2."War" - Edwin Starr #3
3."The Love You Save" - The Jackson 5 #7
4."Ball Of Confusion [[That's What The World Is Today)" - The Temptations #7
5."It's All In The Game" - The Four Tops #5
6."Heaven Help Us All" - Stevie Wonder #29
7."It's Wonderful" - Jimmy Ruffin #6
8."Ain't No Mountain High Enough" - Diana Ross #6
9."Signed, Sealed, Delivered [[I'm Yours)" - Stevie Wonder #15
10."Stoned Love" - The Supremes #3
11."Abraham, Martin & John" - Marvin Gaye #7
12."Still Water [[Love)" - The Four Tops #10
13."Forget Me Not" - Martha Reeves & The Vandellas #11
14."It's a Shame" - The Motown Spinners #20
15."I'll Be There" - The Jackson 5 #4
16."I'll Say Forever My Love" - Jimmy Ruffin #7

[[British) Motown Chartbusters Vol 6

1."I'm Still Waiting" - Diana Ross #1
2."I Don't Blame You At All" - Smokey Robinson & The Mircales #11
3."We Can Work It Out" - Stevie Wonder #27
4."Never Can Say Goodbye" - The Jackson 5 #33
5."These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" - The Velvelettes #34
6."Indiana Wants Me" - R. Dean Taylor #2
7."River Deep, Mountain High" - The Supremes And The Four Tops #11
8."Just My Imagination [[Running Away With Me)" - The Temptations #8
9."Nathan Jones" - The Supremes #5
10."A Simple Game" - The Four Tops #3
11."Heaven Must Have Sent You" - The Elgins #3
12."It's Summer" - The Temptations
13."Remember Me" - Diana Ross #7
14."Mama's Pearl" - The Jackson 5 #25
15."[[Come 'Round Here) I'm The One You Need" - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles #13
16."Just Seven Numbers [[Can Straighten Out My Life)" - The Four Tops #36

And this was the UK!!


It was a good year alright.
Irene,Jo,Karen,Maureen,Shirley,Caron,Jackie,Carol, Caroline and Pauline.

We were behind the US releases or were not released and sometimes got a UK exclusive release like the Elgins "Heaven Must have sent you" and I think the Velvelettes."These Things Will Keep Me Loving You"
In 71 Norman Whitfield gave us the Undisputed Truth's "Papa was a Rolling Stone"The Temp's Smiling Faces. Jr Walker came out with Groove Thang & Walk in the Night from the Moody Junior LP.
Shaft was at the Cinema, Isaac Hayes was high in the charts.

[soulster]

Personally, I really don't give a moose booty about charts and award shows as far as artists
are concerned.

I'm a lifelong chart watcher all the way back to the 70s, st least. It's fun for me.

Geez, some folks around here who I thought were more perceptive are really misreading me.

It's the internet. You can't expect to simply infer that everyone will automatically know exactly what your meaning is. You do have to spell it out. You learned that in comp 101!

I simply share with tsull the fact that we both miss the time when a
singer or two, male or female, fronted a live band that played real musical instruments to an eager audience was a common thing.

I think most of us do, but he didn't say that. He emphasized the Black aspect of it, and I took issue with it. He brought it in, so it'd fair game for debate.

I disagree with tsull on a few things I know, but
I respect his right to have an opinion as I know I, myself have been at times not only mistaken, but flat out wrong.

He got defensive, and in the process became offensive. He made it personal, which caused me to defend myself, which totally derailed the thread. "Cringe". Geez!

I think furthering the notion that most of the members who
don't necessarily jump to new music offerings are obcessed with this or that "diva" is wrong
too.

I never said or even insinuated that. I don't know how you connected the dots on that one. But, you see the forum. You see which individuals are obsessed. They never talk about anything else. They will stick references into a thread anywhere they can. Someone told me these people have an agenda, and I believe it.

I came here for the music. Just that. I have no personal agendas with anyone here. I miss when we all could come and talk about the music......

Same here. I know you are OK, Splanky. Your thing is funk. I have also been here a long time, and also wish for the days people spent more time talking about music than bickering, and we didn't have to deal with people and their stupid pettiness.

[soulster]

Then we get abrasive opinions [[and they're meant to be) and the old have a go at Marv crap. You need to pack that in. Haven't found out? Everything you chuck at him bounces off? Wasting your and our time wading through it.

Ralph should start suspending, or ban anyone who makes a personal attack. That should whip people into shape and end this Marv crap.

If a thread is repeating and older thread whats the problem? You can give the link for it [[helpfull) but don't bother giving us a shrink's version of events.

I think people should check to see if a post has already been started before starting up yet another one. If its been a while since the last one, no problem. But if you see two or three threads about the exact, same thing in the space of a few hours, it means no one checked.

Back to 1971

Yes! Please!

[splanky]

Just two things I want to say to Soulster right quick, I have a busy morning ahead...
First, so tsull emphasised Black, so what? I am one of those people that rues when Black
people abandon the music they created.
Second, once upon a time, in my young constantly chasing booty and partying days funk
was my thing and as much as I do still love it, jazz is the genre of music I listen to every day
without fail. After that as much blues,classic soul, latin, so called world and anything else
I might want to stick in my ear and dig...I'll try to get back to '71 later.....

[Jerry Oz]

Herbie Hancock once related the story of how Wynton Marsalis was shaming him for making pop and hip hop when the world clearly could benefit from one of the greatest jazz pianists doing what he did best. When he told Miles Davis about his struggle to reconcile his desire to make music that he enjoyed over his "obligation" to add to the body of jazz, which was then seen as a fading at form, Davis told him to ignore Marsalis, explaining "That's why they made records." In other words, things change and the great things in music are already recorded, even if nothing great will be recorded again.

[soulster]

Just two things I want to say to Soulster right quick, I have a busy morning ahead...
First, so tsull emphasised Black, so what? I am one of those people that rues when Black
people abandon the music they created.

Black people didn't abandon the music they created. Music changes. Nothing is static.

Man, as far as being distressed over a relative lack of Black faces at the top of a chart no one even claims to care about, I don't see where anyone should be alarmed. We have been down this road before. It's like being upset that Atlantic Records in 1971 had fewer Black albums at the top of the charts than rock albums by Whites. Nothing to worry about. Chic wound up having the biggest selling record in the company's history for decades.

[Jerry Oz]

I'm not sure the concern, either. Is it that nobody is playing or buying music by Black artists or is it that we aren't producing anything that anyone wants to buy or play? If it's the former, then screw them, they're missing out. If it's the latter, then shame on us because we're missing out.

[soulster]

I'm not sure the concern, either. Is it...that we aren't producing anything that anyone wants to buy or play?

Who's "we"? Black people are buying and making the music. I think this is more about the generational shift than anything else, not race.

[Jerry Oz]

The charts are now and ever about radio play and/or music purchases. The concern, as expressed is about placement on the charts. So the question is one of relativity. It's possible that Black artists see selling as much music as ever but not topping the charts. My question was asking about the relative amount of activity compared to the past.

[soulster]

The charts are now and ever about radio play and/or music purchases. The concern, as expressed is about placement on the charts. So the question is one of relativity. It's possible that Black artists see selling as much music as ever but not topping the charts. My question was asking about the relative amount of activity compared to the past.

I think what you guys are also missing is that, in the older days, there were more White people producing the songs. Today, there are Black producers and songwriters, and the artists are White, or bi-racial.

Again, I say this is a non-issue, and that is not crapping on the thread. It is an opinion perfectly in line with the topic. You know, some people get mighty angry when people won't just agree with whatever they say. At work the other say, a tea-party co-worker got got very upset that I absolutely refused to say that The U.S. had the best political and economic system in the world. She tried every way to get me to say what she wanted to hear, and I wouldn't give it to her. She was left pretty peeved. I have an opinion. Live goes on.

[Jerry Oz]

We are entitled to our opinions. I have agreed with you for the most part on this subject. But if it is a non-issue for you, it is not for you to determine that it is not an issue for others. It may be significant in their minds. It's all subjective after all and we can decide whether we find something worthy of discussion.

[tamla617]

I agree with Jerry. It isn't black v white. If it isn't important to you, why keep on about things that are not important. Me thinks he doth protest too much shouts out.
We are talking about soul music hitting the "stage" in a big way. Over here [[UK) it was a good,really good year.
Soulster, I don't know what it is but you just rub people up the opposite way. I'll put up with most things but tsull1 gone on walkabout. You've got rid of him. It was a worthy thread and you and the other idiot killed it. It isn't a mystery why people have walked from the forums.Its starting to dig under my skin. I think,my opinion,put up with it,I'll say what I want etc.etc.etc. Sorry mate, you can have an opinion,i'll be the first to agree. Just dont start telling us how your co workers are having to put up with your onslaught. Its not clever And you've wrecked this and killed at least one more in the last 14 days. That I know of. the other was the "indians" NFL team name change. One more time ........You've wrecked this thread,like it or not.

You are a well balanced character,you've got a chip on both shoulders.

To quote "Its just how I am" You need to change.

Sorry mate,I really am.

Ignore me if you want .Its no skin off my proboscis.

[soulster]

But if it is a non-issue for you, it is not for you to determine that it is not an issue for others.

I never did that. You guys are taking it that way. I'm debating the issue, but it seems like you guys don't want debate. There's nothing wrong with challenging an idea. You guys challenge mine all the time, but you don't see me complaining about it.

And, to another member: who are the youngsters? I think just about everyone on this forum is over 50 [[which, for a music site, is nothing to be proud of, IMO).

It may be significant in their minds. It's all subjective after all and we can decide whether we find something worthy of discussion.

You guys don't seem to recognize when someone is discussing a point of issue. You all just get defensive and start in on the personal attacks.

Everyone has valid points, and everyone can always learn something from each other. So, why not , instead of attacking others, elaborate why it is important to have many Black artists at the top of the charts all the time. And, again, I ask this as Black person who grew up with, and loves soul music.

[soulster]

Soulster, I don't know what it is but you just rub people up the opposite way. I'll put up with most things but tsull1 gone on walkabout.

You know, I come at things from a different angle. It's a big world out there with all types of people. If one can't learn to interact with all sorts of people, they may as well not be on the internet and stay in their own little small world. This site is on the world wide web. It's going to attract anyone who loves Motown/soul music. because it is on the web, it can't stay a small little place where only a few cronies who've known each other for decades can talk. It's going to grow. That's why the Supremes fans are here. That's why i'm here. I also happen to be an audiophile too. I am going to inevitably bring that into my musical discussion from time to time. There are others who are interested in it here, so I will not cease.

You've got rid of him.

Bullshit! I didn't get rid of anyone. He made the choice not to post. If he is that touchy, maybe the internet isn't the place for him. besides, need I remind you that he attacked me first? If he had not posted what he did, the thread never would have turned into this. Did he expect me to not respond?

It was a worthy thread and you and the other idiot killed it.

Go back and read the sequence of events. Also, you lost your argument when you decided to call me and others "idiots". That's one of the problems on this forum, people insulting others. Just because you are a veteran member does not give you permission to do it. I've been a member almost since this forum's inception, so it's not like i'm a newbie.

It isn't a mystery why people have walked from the forums.Its starting to dig under my skin.

I maintain that the reason people walk away from this place is because of the stupid cat-fights caused by a certain band of people.

I think,my opinion,put up with it,I'll say what I want etc.etc.etc. Sorry mate, you can have an opinion,i'll be the first to agree. Just dont start telling us how your co workers are having to put up with your onslaught.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Its not clever And you've wrecked this and killed at least one more in the last 14 days.

Puuleaze!

That I know of. the other was the "indians" NFL team name change. One more time ........You've wrecked this thread,like it or not.

Don't make accusations you can't back up with facts.

You are a well balanced character,you've got a chip on both shoulders.

No, I tell it like it is. But you? You like to throw baseless accusations around.

To quote "Its just how I am" You need to change.

You need to change!

Sorry mate,I really am.

I want you to back up your accusations with facts. There's a lot of finger-pointing going on on this forum without any examples or facts. And, why Ralph allows people to personally attack each other on this forum is beyond me. I don't care if you are a veteran or just signed up yesterday there's no excuse for it.

BTW, as far as me having a chip on both shoulders is concerned, no, I don't. But, i'm also not passive/aggressive. I really wonder if you talk to people like you do me in your normal, every day life. If you do, you probably have issues relating to people.

Destruction says he will return to expound on his thoughts about things. If his past post about me is any indication, he will pepper it with insults and innuendo, and make groundless accusations. He will likely absorb all of the problems of this forum and attempt o blame them all on me. Remember, it's a tribal thing. I am , and never was part of your little clique. So, I am the target of hostility.

Notice how, through this entire reply, never once did I insult anyone, or call anyone an idiot. Hint, hint!

[Jerry Oz]

I never did that. You guys are taking it that way. I'm debating the issue, but it seems like you guys don't want debate. There's nothing wrong with challenging an idea. You guys challenge mine all the time, but you don't see me complaining about it.

And, to another member: who are the youngsters? I think just about everyone on this forum is over 50 [[which, for a music site, is nothing to be proud of, IMO).

You guys don't seem to recognize when someone is discussing a point of issue. You all just get defensive and start in on the personal attacks.

Everyone has valid points, and everyone can always learn something from each other. So, why not , instead of attacking others, elaborate why it is important to have many Black artists at the top of the charts all the time. And, again, I ask this as Black person who grew up with, and loves soul music.

Just to point out that I've never made a personal attack on you. Ever. As a matter of fact, 9 times out of 10, we agree on things. I was simply writing that it's one thing to indicate that you don't see the issue, and something altogether different to decide that there is no issue to be seen.

I can appreciate your directness, but I can also see why it chafes others. I'm somewhere in the middle of all of it because I like good discussions but often see the derailment coming before they can reach their peak. If you can find in any of my posts where I've ever taken a shot at you, I'd like to know about it because I'll correct myself.

There's only a couple of posters around here who can run me off of a thread that I like due to their behinds showing, and you are not one of them.

[soulster]

Just to point out that I've never made a personal attack on you. Ever. As a matter of fact, 9 times out of 10, we agree on things. I was simply writing that it's one thing to indicate that you don't see the issue, and something altogether different to decide that there is no issue to be seen.

And, I have never done that, Jerry. Saying something along the lines of "Nothing to see here", is a figure of speech. It is in no way an attempt to kill discussion. That would be silly. Think about it rationally: what purpose would I have to want to kill a discussion? None!

BTW, when I say "you guys", I mean the people who always come out and attack me. For what? I offer a different opinion of things. but, it seems that there are a lot of people who don't like differing opinions around here. Is it insecurity? Ego? A power play? Do I go against some unwritten tribal law that says thou shall not ever disagree with anyone, unless it's soulster? People here disagree with me here all the time, and several of you make it known, but you don't see me getting my panties in a wad. Oh, and there is a lot of grandstanding here. It's like you guys publically lash people for brownie points.

I can appreciate your directness, but I can also see why it chafes others.

You are going to tell me that others here aren't just as, or even more direct??? Do you not read the many, many posts by your fellow forum members? These guys insult others on a daily basis! The ones who rarely post are the worst, and no one calls them on it!

I'm somewhere in the middle of all of it because I like good discussions but often see the derailment coming before they can reach their peak.

Jerry! I want you and anyone else to go back and READ this, and the other thread[[s) in question. Read each and every single post in order, and tell me where the derailment starts. Tell me if and where things could have been done differently by everyone.

If you can find in any of my posts where I've ever taken a shot at you, I'd like to know about it because I'll correct myself.

You haven't, but a lot of others have, and most were unprovoked.

There's only a couple of posters around here who can run me off of a thread that I like due to their behinds showing, and you are not one of them.

Thank you. You know, no one runs anyone off of anything. People choose to participate or not. To say that someone is run off is to is to blame others and not take responsibility for their own actions. Now, if one is honest, they would wonder who really is responsible for the constant crap on this forum. It ain't me, babe!

I have tried to contribute to this forum. On the old forum, I liked discussion about audio and engineering.

When this new software came up, there were a lot of people who had trouble navigating it, probably because they didn't go anywhere else but here. I tried to help out. I didn't have to, but I wanted everyone to participate. I wanted everyone to feel comfortable in their new digs.

When people said they were sick of the constant Supremes threads, I encouraged people to start threads about other things. I started threads about soul music [[and sometimes politics, which I find quite boring these days). The vast majority sank to the bottom. But, all you guys want to talk about is Diana Ross's sequined gowns, or who died. I thought this was supposed to be a lively music forum! C'mon! Oh, you'll talk about music, but I guess it's only on the terms of everyone nodding yes.

I take full responsibility for taking digs at some of the more obsessive people, but they are also the ones that have caused 99% of all the crap on this forum. They are actually the main reason people have left here, or don't post. But, do any of them come out of the woodwork to complain about them? No. I am the whipping-boy. I have been wrong in my behavior in the past for several things here. For that, everyone, I am sorry. but, I don't see anyone else who will man up and apologize for anything. I guess that's the kind of people we really have here.

Maybe it's culture. As I said before, I am used to very lively music forums. Yes, they are very orderly, but people always disagree, but are mature enough to explain why, and don't get upset, leave, then come back and make personal attacks. I also used to moderate a forum. Great guys, and never any problems.

Another thing I mentioned once before: if people really wanted to solve problems, they would use the PM system. I do with three or four people, but no one who ever has a problem will bother to use it. Why is that? I think it is because they would rather grandstand to their buddies. They want that tribal support. They want those "Likes". They want everyone to see them let the other person "have it". The unwillingness tells me how genuine the person is. Tamla617 is way out of line with his "idiot" remark, but have you called him on it?

This forum does not belong to tamla 617, tsull1, splanky, destruction, Luke, you, or myself. It's Ralph's, place. So, call me out of place here, but, IMO, I think going forward, he should suspend or ban anyone who makes a personal attack, no matter how veiled. Period. That means you, me, or anyone else.

I have repeatedly said that this place would be much better if people just didn't make personal attacks. It's a rule, but no one enforces it.

And, maybe I don't belong here. I've thought about it. Nothing is wrong, maybe I just don't fit here. But, I DO fit here because I love music. I love Motown/Detroit music. Maybe you should ask yourselves if YOU belong here. Is this place a good fit for YOU. If you love the music, yes, you do!

Tsull1 started another thread about some new music, and posted a video. Great thread. I, and someone else posted in it. He didn't. I just happened to like what he offered and posted something else too. It seems like he wants a thread, but he just doesn't want me in it. Is that it? Does he tense up because he might see something he won't like?

People have tried to turn this thread around twice now. It keeps coming back to this. Did I do it? No. Look at the history of it.

Again, look at this forum over the last few months. there are problems, but, like Bob Dylan said, it ain't me, babe!