Album Review - "diana" 1980

[marv2]

Listen I ask you last week to ignore me and id ignore you so kindly mind your own business.

Respectfully.

Roberta

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.

[luke]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

[Roberta75]

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.

I sincerely appreciate you prayers and thank you for them marv2 and please know in you heart that Im also praying for you too. Im praying that the Almighty Father guide you to a tolorance and respect for the GLBT community and I’m praying to our Father in Heaven that he can make you think before you go wringing cruel and hateful remarks about homosexual gentlemen. I know in your heart that you are a real good person so I offer you love and light and compassion for those different from you and I offer this prayer with my love and blessings.

God, please show Marv how to find the way of patience and tolerance and kindness and Love in his heart and his mind and his soul. Blessed Lord, show Marv how to demonstrate these principles to those different from him especially the GLBT community. I ask this in the name off your son Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross so that we may all be forgiven. I ask this for compassionate reasons only dearest Father and I will continue to do my bit for tolerance and acceptance of all of your children on this here earth.

Your obedient and loving servant.

Roberta

[marv2]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

Luke, I hope this thread does not get zapped. I think it is a good review by the way. I
get attack for just being here so what else is new? I didn't know that Diana Ross is only to receive praise .Maybe the guy that wrote the review has met Diane?

[whitesoxx]

There is nothing historic or objective about the article.

Anyway, the "diana" album would not have done as well had the original Chic mix been released. Ms Ross and Russ Terrana did the right thing remixing the album.

[Roberta75]

This is hysterical. A post which is very clear about Diana's character and people attackMarv. Now I will get attacked by the usuals too. Do they think people cant see that if anyone says anything honest about Diana's character they get attacked? lol--where are all these same righteous people when Mary Wilson gets torn apart by posters here??? Nothing is said. And this article isnt Marv's words they are someone else's. I know people who have left SD because they dont want to get attacked. Marv has the guts and some just cant stand it. Ralph thanks for your wisdom and objectivity. [[Im sure some people sure do want this thread zapped because the post tells the truth!)

Bless you for being the voice of reason Luke. You are a real bright light in this here forum.

Fondly,

Roberta

[luke]

Articles and biographies all do the same thing-the person's work and their character and life. Why should DIana Ross' be any different from Marvin Gaye, Patti Labelle's, Barbara Striesand or anyone else's?We know tons about them. As the writer says -Ross just happens to the the biggest diva of all thus generating much to report. What is objective about the slurs thrown at Mary Wilson here?-and not by writers but by members?? I respect Diana's talent, charisma and some of her music but because I dont like people getting personally attacked and am a Mary fan I get it too. I like both versions of the album.

[marv2]

Articles and biographies all do the same thing-the person's work and their character and life. Why should DIana Ross' be any different from Marvin Gaye, Patti Labelle's, Barbara Striesand or anyone else's?We know tons about them. As the writer says -Ross just happens to the the biggest diva of all thus generating much to report. What is objective about the slurs thrown at Mary Wilson here?-and not by writers but by members?? I respect Diana's talent, charisma and some of her music but because I dont like people getting personally attacked and am a Mary fan I get it too. I like both versions of the album.

Luke I have seen for myself you being attack and for just asking a question. Some of these people are hypocrites and have no shame. To me, Diane is just an ok singer but she has not had any real success in several decades now, so for all intents and purposes she is retired in my mind. I think they blame me and others because of that fact in some strange warped way.......

[Jimi LaLumia]

If touring nationally in major rooms[[like The Theatre @ Madison Square) and being the central character of a mega successful Broadway show makes Diana Ross retired, then what on earth is Mary Wilson?...lolololol

[ralpht]

Okay, stay on topic and cease the bickering or I will have to zap the thread. This is a fairly interesting topic. Keep it that way.

[marv2]

If touring nationally in major rooms[[like The Theatre @ Madison Square) and being the central character of a mega successful Broadway show makes Diana Ross retired, then what on earth is Mary Wilson?...lolololol

It makes her a Supreme Survivor is about to headline at the Kentucky Derby Gala this month, the Jamaica Jazz Festival and completing her next movie role in the film...."The Game".

[marv2]

Alright, when the lead single from this album hit the top 10 in August 1980......34 years ago? Wow, I did not expect the album to do as well as it eventually did. She should have followed up with another one produced by Rodgers & Edwards.

[soulster]

You seem so bitter.......... I will pray that God will take the bitterness from you so you can be happy.

And please stay positive!

[marv2]

And please stay positive!

You are exactly right and by all means everyone..........Please Stay Positive!

[soulster]

I sincerely appreciate you prayers and thank you for them marv2 and please know in you heart that Im also praying for you too. Im praying that the Almighty Father guide you to a tolorance and respect for the GLBT community and I’m praying to our Father in Heaven that he can make you think before you go wringing cruel and hateful remarks about homosexual gentlemen. I know in your heart that you are a real good person so I offer you love and light and compassion for those different from you and I offer this prayer with my love and blessings.

God, please show Marv how to find the way of patience and tolerance and kindness and Love in his heart and his mind and his soul. Blessed Lord, show Marv how to demonstrate these principles to those different from him especially the GLBT community. I ask this in the name off your son Jesus Christ who was crucified on the cross so that we may all be forgiven. I ask this for compassionate reasons only dearest Father and I will continue to do my bit for tolerance and acceptance of all of your children on this here earth.

Your obedient and loving servant.

Roberta

And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.

Okay, stay on topic and cease the bickering or I will have to zap the thread. This is a fairly interesting topic. Keep it that way.

OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

[Roberta75]

And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.

OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

Hope you enjoyed your BBq dear soulster.

Have a blessed and beautiful weekend.

Roberta

[LadyLola]

Makes for good reading of historical stuff about Diane...........

http://popdose.com/when-good-albums-...na-ross-diana/

When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Diana Ross, “Diana”


Matthew Bolin
on March 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Berry Gordy is a powerful man. Not only did he found Motown Records, building a musical empire that allowed blacks to crossover into what had pretty much been a white-controlled music industry, but almost as amazing, he was able to convince a young Diana Ross that her crap doesn’t stink, and she has not deviated from that belief one iota over the past 45 or so years. In an industry of big egos, the one belonging to Miss Ross [[remember, she must be addressed as such or you will be thrown out — and don’t you dare look her in the eyes!) is likely the biggest, and she has wielded it to not only obtain her huge success, but to build herself into a prick so immense that it would make porn stars gasp. Here are but a few examples of Miss Ross in action:

• While neither the best singer nor most attractive member of the Supremes, Ross did have one important thing up her sleeve, namely, Mr. Gordy’s penis. After unsuccessfully pursuing Smokey Robinson, Ross set her sights on [[the married and 15 years older) Gordy. As the mistress of Motown’s founder, she was able to gain full power over the group, becoming its lead singer, getting its name changed to Diana Ross & the Supremes, and upstaging the other members, eventually leaving and employing the full power of the Motown promotional machine behind her solo career, while the Supremes were left to sputter out slowly over the course of the ’70s. Ross, meanwhile, ended up bearing Gordy’s child in 1971, but did not publicly acknowledge who the real father was for 22 years, until she released and was promoting her autobiography [[which actually didn’t mention who the father was, either).

• Not only did she upstage the other Supremes throughout their career, she upstaged former Supreme Florence Ballard at Ballard’s own funeral. She went up to the front of the church during the service, grabbed the mike, and announced that she and Mary Wilson were going to lead a silent prayer. Wilson at the time was in a back pew and had no idea what was going on.

• In 1983, she agreed to do a one-off Supremes reunion with Wilson and Cindy Birdsong [[Ballard’s replacement in the group) for the Motown 25 TV special. But Ross said she would only do one song instead of the requested four, and refused to practice for it. She also wanted the other two women behind her throughout the song, and when Wilson, who wasn’t informed of Ross’ demand, tried to step forward during the performance, Ross shoved her [[this part was cut out of the final broadcast).

• In 2000, she announced that there would finally be a Supremes reunion tour with Wilson and Birdsong, but the other two women refused to take part in it when they received the Ross-approved financial breakdown: $20 million in full tour appearance fees with $15 million going to Ross, $4 million to Wilson, and $1 million to Birdsong. Ross proceeded to then get two other former Supremes to join her [[women who had joined the group in the mid-’70s long after Ross had left), and then explained at a press conference that it was a viable reunion because the Supremes were an “ever-changing unit.” Needless to say, fans were unhappy, and the tour was canceled halfway through its proposed itinerary due to low ticket sales.

On top of that, there are a litany of other tales: the explosions in airports and on airplanes, including trying to sneak her dog on a flight hidden in a hatbox, then beating a stewardess with the box while her dog was still in it when the attendant told her she couldn’t bring the box on board because it was barking; constantly firing staff members, including one time firing the entire eight-person staff who served her apartment after an unflattering story about her private behavior appeared in the papers — then sending out a swath of letters trying to blacklist all the staff members from working again; giving her building’s manager, staff, etc. a Christmas bonus consisting of an autographed copy of her latest album [[cost to Miss Ross: zilch). I could go on, but my teeth are being worn down in fits of rage. Suffice it to say, Miss Ross is a grade-A asshole.

Also, suffice it to say, she has put out her share of good music over the course of time; though, honestly, never a really strong album, either with the Supremes, or as a solo artist. She has always been a tremendous singles artist, but a combination of weaker material, “problematic” arrangements [[see Jon Cummings’ Worst #1 Songs of the 70s for proof of this), and Ross’ somewhat limited and nasally voice has kept her from assembling a solid disc from front to back. There is one exception, though: the Good Album for this Bad Person; and that’s 1980′s Diana.

Written and produced by Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers, and performed by their band, Chic, Diana was a consistent, catchy album. Gone were the maudlin ballads and safe pop workouts. Instead the tight, eight-song, 34-minute album contained tracks combining funk, post-disco dance jams, and even a bit of proto-new-wave arrangements. Two of the most upbeat songs became top 10 smashes: “Upside Down” and “I’m Coming Out.” All in all, it was a solid piece of work, and in my opinion, Ross’s LP highpoint.

However …

Miss Ross couldn’t leave well enough alone. As such, there is a better version of this album than the one the public is familiar with. You see, after hiring Chic to write and produce an album for her, Ross dismissed the mix that Edwards and Rodgers turned in as sounding too much like “A Chic album featuring Diana Ross,” and personally oversaw the remixing of the album, making it more “mainstream”: songs were sped up, instrumental sections were shortened, the rhythm section was buried lower in the mix, and Ross’s vocals were redone to sound sweeter. In effect, Ross realized she didn’t want a Chic album, but a regular Diana Ross album with Chic-lite arrangements. The fact the album still holds up in its final form just shows the strength of the material and those who actually created it.

Not surprisingly, Edwards and Rodgers went ballistic, after having turned in what they were asked to do, then having their sound weakened. They demanded that their names be taken off as producers, not wanting to be labeled as responsible for the final product. In the end, Miss Ross won that battle, too, though you’ll be damned if you can find any footage of Ross performing any of the songs with Chic.

It wasn’t until 2003, with the “Deluxe” release of Diana, that people were able to hear the original Chic mix of the album, with its deeper grooves and original Ross vocals, which are more laid back and rawer, and fit the songs better than her re-recordings fit the remix. Compare, for instance, the well-known version of “I’m Coming Out” to the original Chic mix. For an even more dramatic change, compare the final version of “Friend to Friend” to the original Chic mix, with the full rhythm section intact, and Rodgers’ very progressive guitar solo up front. It goes to show [[at least I think it does) that a Bad Person can hurt a Good Album, as ego gets in the way of a superior product, making tough into smooth, ballsy into safe, and possibly even art into merely product.

The whole article sounds like a load of shit to me. Written by some bitter old queen.

[marv2]

The whole article sounds like a load of shit to me. Written by some bitter old queen.

I thought it was a great article. Very accurate, very factual!

[smark21]

I wonder if fans of Shantal Baker and the Supremes group are as divided into such warring factions as fans of Diana Ross and the Supremes?

[marv2]

There is nothing historic or objective about the article.

Anyway, the "diana" album would not have done as well had the original Chic mix been released. Ms Ross and Russ Terrana did the right thing remixing the album.

I would have to disagree Whitesoxx. The review is of an album that is now 34 years old [[trust me, that is historic when comes to Rock/Pop music. LOL!) . and it is quite objective. Read it again......

[marv2]

ONe has to understand that everytime Diana Ross goes on tour and gets good reviews, Marv tends to get very agitated and acts out.

No that is not true. Only thing I find remotely interesting about Diane going out on tour every year is that for the longest time she would say that she hates touring! Makes you wonder then why is she going out on tour every year? hmmmmmmm? LOL!

Everyone else does it because they need to make money.

[marv2]

And, why do you push LBGT on here all the time? You bring it up in every single thread! I think Marv is 100% correct about the multiple accounts on this forum by one or two people pushing an agenda.



OK, I read this after I posted. I would rather talk about the album anyway.

You ever listened to that song, "Now That You're Gone" from this album? Sounds very similar to Chic's own recording of "A Warm Summer Night" to me. What do you think?

[marv2]

She didn't say that she didn't like touring. She said she disliked the traveling part. This is why when she tours it is generally for short spans of time. She will take time off and then resume.

Oh ok, so touring does not necessarily mean traveling? I think I get it.

[skooldem1]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

[marv2]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

Oh ok so she would rather everyone that wants to hear her come to her house? I know she does house parties.

[skooldem1]

You would have to ask her.

[marv2]

You would have to ask her.

We don't talk anymore............hehehehehehehe.......

[marv2]

She said she loves to perform, but hates the packing and unpacking.

So, if she doesn't like touring [[which the last dictionary I checked with says it means traveling....) and she hates packing and unpacking...................then why would a super wealthy woman put herself through all of that and please do not say because she loves the fans, hehehehehehehe..........!!!

[marv2]

So the Chic mixes were too smooth, ah ha! I never heard that before.

[soulster]

So the Chic mixes were too smooth, ah ha! I never heard that before.

To be fair, maybe Russ meant "smooth", as in lack of apparent dynamics, or the liberal use of compression during mixing.

[soulster]

You ever listened to that song, "Now That You're Gone" from this album? Sounds very similar to Chic's own recording of "A Warm Summer Night" to me. What do you think?

Not even close, IMO. To me, Sister Sledge's "I'm A Good Girl" is closer. That song, and "A Warm Summer Night", were recorded closer together anyway.

[marv2]

Not even close, IMO. To me, Sister Sledge's "I'm A Good Girl" is closer. That song, and "A Warm Summer Night", were recorded closer together anyway.

This is the song? You are right, it does remind me more of "A Warm Summer Night". I have this album by the Sledges too. I haven't listen to many of these songs in well over 20 years so I did not remember it.

[marv2]

That cut by Sister Sledge sounds very much like it could have been a Chic record.

[captainjames]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

[marv2]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

It was the right choice to sell records that's for sure!

[marv2]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

Have you ever had the chance to hear the original mixes? I haven't but am curious to learn what they sounded like.

[soulster]

This is the song? You are right, it does remind me more of "A Warm Summer Night". I have this album by the Sledges too. I haven't listen to many of these songs in well over 20 years so I did not remember it.

I didn't buy the album until seven months after it was released, so I consider it a "summer" album. I plan to add it to my car USB soon. It sounds great on CD. I bought it when Rhino reissued it back in the 90s. I have all the Sister Sledge CDs that were on the Cotillion and Atlantic labels on CD except "The Sisters", which I transferred and restored from the vinyl record.

[soulster]

That cut by Sister Sledge sounds very much like it could have been a Chic record.

It may have originally been intended for Chic. Unless my memory is off, "I Want Your Love" was originally written as a Sister Sledge track. I think that changed when they decided to write the song "We Are Family" for them.

[marv2]

I didn't buy the album until seven months after it was released, so I consider it a "summer" album. I plan to add it to my car USB soon. It sounds great on CD. I bought it when Rhino reissued it back in the 90s. I have all the Sister Sledge CDs that were on the Cotillion and Atlantic labels on CD except "The Sisters", which I transferred and restored from the vinyl record.

This was when they were at the peak of their talents and popularity. Back then I think I bought albums just about every week! LOL!

[soulster]

I love the remix of diana by Russ and Diana. It was the right choice !! the Best Choice !!!

I agree. Although, I do like the original Bob Clearmountain mix of "Tenderness" and "Now That You're Gone", and "Have Fun [[Again)". The latter sounds correct the way Chic produced it. "Give Up" was left almost unchanged.

[marv2]

I agree. Although, I do like the original Bob Clearmountain mix of "Tenderness" and "Now That You're Gone", and "Have Fun [[Again)". The latter sounds correct the way Chic produced it. "Give Up" was left almost unchanged.

the Have Fun Again, song didn't sound right or make sense to me for some reason. Something about her voice was off on that one. the entire song sounded a little too sparse to me.

[soulster]

This was when they were at the peak of their talents and popularity. Back then I think I bought albums just about every week! LOL!

Me too. Back in the 80s, when I still had military privileges, I would go up to the PX every weekend and buy a stack of albums. In the 90s, I would buy a stack of CDs every Tuesday morning. I would get a newsletter called ICE and pick out all the upcoming CD releases I wanted. Those were the good days, indeed!

[marv2]

Me too. Back in the 80s, when I still had military privileges, I would go up to the PX every weekend and buy a stack of albums. In the 90s, I would buy a stack of CDs every Tuesday morning. I would get a newsletter called ICE and pick out all the upcoming CD releases I wanted. Those were the good days, indeed!

Totally good days. Around 1995 I kind of just drifted away from buying lots of music. I knew all the best stores even in the small towns and cities where I traveled. But after CD's really caught on, I would only buy a few a year. Still, I have a music collection of approx 3,000 albums and Cd's combinedQ! LOL

[soulster]

Totally good days. Around 1995 I kind of just drifted away from buying lots of music. I knew all the best stores even in the small towns and cities where I traveled. But after CD's really caught on, I would only buy a few a year. Still, I have a music collection of approx 3,000 albums and Cd's combined! LOL

I have somewhere around 9000 CDs and records, combined, and scads of 45s. I bought more CDs mainly because I love comps. I collected tons of oldies in the late 80s and 90s. When I ripped my CDs, I went through three burners and utilized three computers to get it done.

[soulster]

the Have Fun Again, song didn't sound right or make sense to me for some reason. Something about her voice was off on that one. the entire song sounded a little too sparse to me.

Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

[marv2]

I have somewhere around 9000 CDs and records, combined, and scads of 45s. I bought more CDs mainly because I love comps. I collected tons of oldies in the late 80s and 90s. When I ripped my CDs, I went through three burners and utilized three computers to get it done.

Yeah you got me beat! My oldies collecting days spanned from about 1980- 91. Record shows, flea markets and oldies/used record shops all over the place.

[marv2]

Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

Sounded like she was having problems with the lyrics.

[supremester]

Do you prefer the Chic version on every cut, or which ones? I like a mix.

Her voice wasn't off, some of it was done "ad-lib", and didn't sound very good. Russ did a good job of editing those parts out and whittling the song down. It sounds like Diana either re-did some vocals or used different takes.

But, as far as the overall production of it, I like the Chic version.

[soulster]

Yeah you got me beat! My oldies collecting days spanned from about 1980- 91. Record shows, flea markets and oldies/used record shops all over the place.

Oh yeah, my oldies collecting started in 1981, but when the CD came out, I went crazy with it, especially with all the mono single mixes finally reappearing.

[soulster]

Sounded like she was having problems with the lyrics.

The way I understand it is that they wanted spontaneity, something that Ross wasn't used to at that point. Remember that, up until that point, she had developed strict discipline in the studio because that was Motown's way of doing things. She wanted artistic freedom and wanted to try different things, to cut loose. That's why you hear her trying to loosen up on that album. Of course, she had a change of heart when she got that test pressing. It's somewhat the same thing with Marvin Gaye and his "What's Going On" album.

The strict discipline and conservative mindset is the one thing that always annoyed artists about Motown, which is why many og them left the label. It also bothered a lot of R&B fans, which is why many prefer the rawer, grittier sounds of Stax and Muscle Shoals.