I wonder if Miss Wilson is going to take legal acxtions against SOTS.

**Roberta75** · 04-27-2014, 08:28 PM

Mary Wilson 15 mins ·

This is taking it too far!

The only legal Supremes group
The sound of Motown hits Lancashire next month.

http://www.lep.co.uk/what-s-on/music...roup-1-6573143

**Jimi LaLumia** · 04-27-2014, 08:33 PM

'true Supreme'..what a can of worms was opened in the past decade or two.. sorry state of things in 2014....

**jobeterob** · 04-27-2014, 09:12 PM

You can't sue again. This has already been tried and the reports say Mary Wilson lost and did not appeal.

Perhaps she could try in another country. But litigation isn't fun or cheap especially if you lose.

**captainjames** · 04-27-2014, 09:45 PM

That just stinks

**jobeterob** · 04-28-2014, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

That just stinks

It does. But I don't think it is that unusual amongst groups with checkered histories.

The original members usually are pushed into actions caused by a lack of money when the hits stop; they can't enjoy the lifestyle they became used to and they make bad choices, bad decisions, that have enduring consequences.

Doesn't Randy Taraborelli consistently say that Mary Wilson made very bad business decisions?

That's what happened here and now you have a woman virtually nobody ever identified as a Supreme legally able to called herself a Supreme. She never participated on any record by the Supremes that ever charted or was a hit in any remote way.

And it appears she is working as much as any former Supreme does.

**BigAl** · 04-28-2014, 07:56 AM

I doubt anyone really takes Kaaaaaaaaren very seriously, regardless of how "legal" she claims to be. SOS is probably booked pretty cheaply and from what I've seen online, the group's level of performance is inauthentic and sloppy. True fans know the real deal from the fakes and anyone else identifies The Supremes only with Diane and doesn't expect much without her. Those folks just want to hear the old songs and it doesn't really matter to them who is doing the "singing." Mary has better things to do with her time than to again try to block Kaaaaaaaaaaren from lying publicly [[even if she is permitted by law to do so). It's sad, of course, that Kaaaaaaaaaaren is allowed to pull the wool over a few people's eyes, and it would be doubly sad if SOS were to effectively grab gigs which Mary might get otherwise, but I suspect that doesn't happen very often, if at all. It's been discussed here many, many times, that Mary in essence created this problem herself by allowing her backup singers to be called "Supremes" in the first place. Had she not done that, the situation in all likelihood would not exist.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 04-28-2014, 09:05 AM

is Rags really allowed to lie publicly? Isn't there an entertainment biz item called 'theft of publicity' that might affect this?

**milven** · 04-28-2014, 09:44 AM

From what I just read, Motown only allowed them to use the name Sounds of the Supremes and only recognizes them as a tribute act. Motown's owners [[Polygram, UMG etc.) even booked them at some of their events and maybe that is what they are calling "being sanctioned" by Motown.

Also, the wording in the advertisement does not call her a former Supreme. They carefully changed the wording. Although it is deceptive if not read carefully, it is accurate. She was a member of original Supreme Mary Wilson's 70's/80s VERSION of the group.

Most of us know that Mary left the Supremes in 1977 and that Motown decided to disband the group rather than let Susaye and Sherrie go on with a new member. After the group disbanded, Mary hired Karaan as a Supreme and toured in Europe as a Supreme [[even though the group no longer existed). At the time, the Supremes had a top selling album of their greatest hits on the charts. Mary may have seen that she could get better gigs as a Supreme and booked herself and Kaaaren and Karen as Supremes. After Kaaren left Mary, she had and education of how to get gigs and live off the legacy of the Supremes.

But there are a few CDs out there where they are billed as THE SUPREMES on the cover. That IS deceptive and I wish those CDs would be pulled off the market.

Since 1989 The Sounds of the Supremes [[the only group of their type legally endorsed by Motown) led by Kaaren Ragland, a former member of original Supreme Mary Wilson’s 70s/80s version of the group, have enjoyed worldwide success.

**jobeterob** · 04-28-2014, 11:11 AM

Good posts and I agree with BigAl and Milven.

Bizarre that after all the lawsuits over using the name [[and various other group names) and despite all the sensitivities over the name and who were the members and who weren't, you get someone that never ends up on fans lists of Supremes and they get to advertise as "legally endorsed".

**midnightman** · 04-29-2014, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by milven

From what I just read, Motown only allowed them to use the name Sounds of the Supremes and only recognizes them as a tribute act. Motown's owners [[Polygram, UMG etc.) even booked them at some of their events and maybe that is what they are calling "being sanctioned" by Motown.

Also, the wording in the advertisement does not call her a former Supreme. They carefully changed the wording. Although it is deceptive if not read carefully, it is accurate. She was a member of original Supreme Mary Wilson's 70's/80s VERSION of the group.

Most of us know that Mary left the Supremes in 1977 and that Motown decided to disband the group rather than let Susaye and Sherrie go on with a new member. After the group disbanded, Mary hired Karaan as a Supreme and toured in Europe as a Supreme [[even though the group no longer existed). At the time, the Supremes had a top selling album of their greatest hits on the charts. Mary may have seen that she could get better gigs as a Supreme and booked herself and Kaaaren and Karen as Supremes. After Kaaren left Mary, she had and education of how to get gigs and live off the legacy of the Supremes.

But there are a few CDs out there where they are billed as THE SUPREMES on the cover. That IS deceptive and I wish those CDs would be pulled off the market.

Since 1989 The Sounds of the Supremes [[the only group of their type legally endorsed by Motown) led by Kaaren Ragland, a former member of original Supreme Mary Wilson’s 70s/80s version of the group, have enjoyed worldwide success.

Yep. They're going on as Sounds of the Supremes like the Marvelettes "groups" are billed as either a misspelling of the original name or "Tribute to the Marvelettes". In essence, Mary won her war if not the battle with Karen.

**jobeterob** · 04-29-2014, 08:18 PM

You can do anything as a Tribute so long as people will pay.

You cannot use some phonetic spelling to avoid legal liability.

But to be able to say legally endorsed by Motown when you have a very slim connection to the group that created the hits is very deceiving.

**Roberta75** · 04-29-2014, 08:34 PM

Godd for Miss Payne im real proud of her.

**8supremes** · 04-30-2014, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Godd for Miss Payne im real proud of her.

Has anyone read this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaren_Ragland

**144man** · 04-30-2014, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by 8supremes

Has anyone read this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaren_Ragland

Can't anyone from here edit that?

**blueskies** · 04-30-2014, 12:50 PM

She's an attorney??

supremester · 04-30-2014, 02:35 PM

I don't think Rags takes many gigs from mary anymore, if at all. Hers is a party-style Supremes show while Mary does a concert format with ballads and quiet moments. I don't think it matters who is to blame here, Mary has always done what she wanted at the time and not always thought of the ramifications. She is done using The Supremes' name and doesn't do a Supremes show, so it shouldn't matter. Rags' like about being the only legally endorsed act OF IT'S KIND is brilliant. A friend of mine knows them and they can dish Mary big time.

If Mary wants do do a Supremes show, i'd get a deal at a small room like The Riviera to begin with and bill it:

MOTOWN on The Strip
The Supremes'
Mary Wilson Lynda Lawrence Scherrie Payne

The FOUR TOPS
i think decent money could be made and it would be worth a shot. Better would be a gig with Dennis' group, but he uses a good sized band. Bottom line: Mary won't be suing anyone as she can't prove damages and hasn't the resources to fund it. No atty would take it for a percentage

**jobeterob** · 04-30-2014, 02:45 PM

The case is over; it wasn't appealed. There are no second chances on these things.

LadyLola · 04-30-2014, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

The case is over; it wasn't appealed. There are no second chances on these things.

Someone could slip the Rag and her skags a ducalax before they go on stage. But it wouldn't be much different than the shit that comes out of their fly traps.

**bradsupremes** · 04-30-2014, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by LadyLola

Someone could slip the Rag and her skags a ducalax before they go on stage. But it wouldn't be much different than the shit that comes out of their fly traps.

Well said!

**jobeterob** · 04-30-2014, 05:52 PM

There is a huge lesson to be learned in the Mary Wilson - Kaaren Ragland affair. It should be a required course for members of any group that has any measure of success.

I guess the same kind of checkered and troubled history haunts the Beach Boys, the Temptations, the Marvelettes, the Platters, Kiss and many others.

The Supremes tale seems particularly aggregious.

**marv2** · 04-30-2014, 06:25 PM

The Sounds of the Supremes are merely a tribute act. They are not a threat to anyone I know and are only in competition with other tribute acts. I don't know many people that have ever heard of them or even care. End of!

**jobeterob** · 05-01-2014, 01:50 AM

Supreme Decision: A Los Angeles judge has rejected founding Supremes member Mary Wilson's lawsuit against Motown Records and several former Supremes members, finding that Motown Records, and not Wilson, is the sole owner of rights to the group's name. Wilson had sued several former group members and others last year claiming that they "exploited" the group's image by forming subsequent musical groups such as Sounds of the Supremes, which features Kaaren Ragland. However, the court approved the use of the name Sounds of the Supremes, finding that Motown has no objections to the name and has actually "encouraged and supported" the group's performances. Counterclaims filed against Wilson by three of the former band members and their management company, alleging that she has interfered with their business activities by attempting to stop performances by Sounds of the Supremes, have yet to be decided. Wilson could not be reached for comment because of the Labor Day holiday.

**jobeterob** · 05-01-2014, 01:53 AM

Pop/rock

MORNING REPORT

February 10, 1996|Arts and entertainment reports from The Times, national and international news services and the nation's press

Stop! In the Name of Law: Mary Wilson, a founding member of the Supremes, has sued four former members of the group and their managers, claiming they are violating Wilson's exclusive right to use of the famed Motown group's name. In the Los Angeles federal court suit, Wilson claims she helped form the Supremes in 1960 and has managed the group since 1974. She claims that former members Kaaren Ragland, Hollis Paysuer, Scherrie Payne and Lynda Laurence have used the trademark name "The Supremes" in booking, advertising and promotional materials. Wilson wants a judge to bar the defendants from using the name, and seeks an unspecified amount in profits and punitive damages.

**jobeterob** · 05-01-2014, 02:01 AM

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/o15801.pdf

These are the Reasons for Judgement in the Trade Mark Action Mary Wilson Vs. Scherrie Payne & Lynda Laurence which Miss Wilson also lost.

Very interesting reading for historians of the group.

**REDHOT** · 05-01-2014, 08:02 AM

To each his own,but Roberta i would have NEVER posted this,i'm sure you had good reasons.

**Roberta75** · 05-01-2014, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

To each his own,but Roberta i would have NEVER posted this,i'm sure you had good reasons.

Mary Wilson post it on facebook and im her facebook friend and based on her comment and the comments fans added i felt it should be shared. As you say to each his own. Please Stay Positive dear Redhot.

Fondly,

Roberta

**marv2** · 05-01-2014, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Yep. They're going on as Sounds of the Supremes like the Marvelettes "groups" are billed as either a misspelling of the original name or "Tribute to the Marvelettes". In essence, Mary won her war if not the battle with Karen.

This is true Midnightman!

**REDHOT** · 05-01-2014, 09:53 AM

I'v said this before,Mary is not running that facebook,some fan is running it,i'm sure Mary would not have posted that,like i said Roberta,i'm sure you had your reasons for postin it.it's all good lol

**Roberta75** · 05-01-2014, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

I'v said this before,Mary is not running that facebook,some fan,i'm sure Mary would not have posted that,like i said Roberta,i'm sure you had your reasons for postin it.

Mary IS running her own facebook page cause ive seen private messages between Mary and some fan/friends and Mard did post that and Scherrie and Susaye have also chime in.

Roberta

**REDHOT** · 05-01-2014, 10:05 AM

Again Mary would have NEVER posted that,NEVER lol

**marv2** · 05-01-2014, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

I'v said this before,Mary is not running that facebook,some fan is running it,i'm sure Mary would not have posted that,like i said Roberta,i'm sure you had your reasons for postin it.it's all good lol

Mary is not running that facebook page.

**Roberta75** · 05-01-2014, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Again Mary would have NEVER posted that,NEVER lol

Again, its marys facebook page and mary is real up to speed on social media. Mary tweets and share her tweets in her facebook page. Trust me Mary posted that lol

Roberta

**jobeterob** · 05-01-2014, 12:43 PM

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/o15801.pdf

That is way more interesting reading. Findings in the Trade Mark Action in England.

**radionixon** · 05-01-2014, 04:27 PM

Poor Barbara Martin, missing from both that list of former Supremes and the court judgment...!

[[Betty McGlown - I thought she was a Primette rather than a "Supreme"? - and I've never heard her referred to as McClung before. You live and learn.)

**Roberta75** · 05-01-2014, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by radionixon

Poor Barbara Martin, missing from both that list of former Supremes and the court judgment...!

[[Betty McGlown - I thought she was a Primette rather than a "Supreme"? - and I've never heard her referred to as McClung before. You live and learn.)

Thank the good Lord Miss Barbara Martin left the entertainment industries and never look back. I believe Miss Martin work as a Podiatrist in Wisconsin but is retired now. Barbara Martin will always have my love and admiration and respect and prayers.

Fondly,

Roberta

**jobeterob** · 05-01-2014, 05:06 PM

I could not read in detail the whole judgment yet ~ but I quickly scanned it.

Interesting about the "McLung"; that must have been provided by the lawyers.

But I have to say that the general drift of the judgement was that Mary Wilson tailored her evidence to meet her current situation at the time ~ and the judge didn't accept it.

**REDHOT** · 05-01-2014, 08:10 PM

Everything about Mary Wilson's facebook page is from a fan's point of view,down to the postin' picture's,Mary would not have the time to post old Supremes pictures,or want to post old Supremes pictures,that our thing,as Supremes fans,no Mary would NEVER post anything about that group,no way no how,again i'm sure Roberta had good reasons to post it lol

**Roberta75** · 05-01-2014, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Everything about Mary Wilson's facebook page is from a fan's point of view,down to the postin' picture's,Mary would not have the time to post old Supremes pictures,or want to post old Supremes pictures,that our thing,as Supremes fans,no Mary would NEVER post anything about that group,no way no how,again i'm sure Roberta had good reasons to post it lol

are you familiar with how facebook work dear Redhot? Any fan or friend can post photos or tag you in photos or add photos. Mary doesnt have to add them cause fans and friends add them Mary post photos of her with her kids at her 70th birthday party and Mark Beggo Marys good friend added photos. You can play you little 'Roberta have her reasons lol' game all deay long ,my dear but im right when I say that the facbook page is Marys.

Please stay POsitive,

Fondly.

Roberta

smark21 · 05-01-2014, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by radionixon

Poor Barbara Martin, missing from both that list of former Supremes and the court judgment...!

[[Betty McGlown - I thought she was a Primette rather than a "Supreme"? - and I've never heard her referred to as McClung before. You live and learn.)

Barbara Martin's name is listed on the image that Roberta posted on April 29. The image is from the booklet that accompanied the Let Yourself Go boxset that HIP-O released a couple years back.

smark21 · 05-01-2014, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Everything about Mary Wilson's facebook page is from a fan's point of view,down to the postin' picture's,Mary would not have the time to post old Supremes pictures,or want to post old Supremes pictures,that our thing,as Supremes fans,no Mary would NEVER post anything about that group,no way no how,again i'm sure Roberta had good reasons to post it lol

If one gets tagged in a photo, that photo will show up on your Facebook timeline/page.

Lulu · 05-01-2014, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

Can't anyone from here edit that?

That entire page is a hot ass mess...not even going down the "content" route but it's horribly written and laden with spelling and grammatical errors!

**REDHOT** · 05-01-2014, 08:32 PM

i know all about u can tagged photo's and everything,and photo's will pop up on your facebook page,i know it,but if Mary was runnin' it,a lot of things would be deleted,and some things would NEVER show up on her facebook,if Mary was running that facebook,we're have our own opinion,you have your Roberta and i have mind,i say Mary is not running her facebook,you say she is,again i'm sure Roberta had good reasons for postin' this lol

**radionixon** · 05-02-2014, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by smark21

Barbara Martin's name is listed on the image that Roberta posted on April 29. The image is from the booklet that accompanied the Let Yourself Go boxset that HIP-O released a couple years back.

Ha, I didn't even notice. Thanks for correcting. Sorry!

**TheMotownManiac** · 05-02-2014, 03:39 PM

Mary should join SOS. The bills are coming in faster than the checks and time is running out for her to launch a solo career. Mary is one of those show-biz parasites that gained and maintained fame by reflected glory and now she is getting drenched in A300. With no real claim to fame or accomplishment of her own, she needs the help of others to make ends meet. Her options are to fade into oblivion, beg Diana for mercy after a year of mea culpas, join SOS or The Flos or announce to the press that she's broke because Diana Ross stole her money. Mary will not be suing anyone.

**REDHOT** · 05-02-2014, 03:42 PM

Again,he want a reaction,let's not give it to him lol

smark21 · 05-02-2014, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

Again,he want a reaction,let's not give it to him lol

I certainly don't take Motown Maniac seriously. He obsessively monitors ticket sales section by section, seat by seat of various artists for assorted dates and tours and lets it impact his moods and self worth depending on how a favorite or non favorite is doing at the box office.

**marv2** · 05-02-2014, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by smark21

I certainly don't take Motown Maniac seriously. He obsessively monitors ticket sales section by section, seat by seat of various artists for assorted dates and tours and lets it impact his moods and self worth depending on how a favorite or non favorite is doing at the box office.

Are you serious?

smark21 · 05-02-2014, 09:50 PM

I'm pretty serious. I remember a thread he started a couple of years ago wondering why Aretha Franklin isn't much of a ticket draw and he broke down ticket sales in various sections of whatever theater she was slated to play.

**marv2** · 05-02-2014, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by smark21

I'm pretty serious. I remember a thread he started a couple of years ago wondering why Aretha Franklin isn't much of a ticket draw and he broke down ticket sales in various sections of whatever theater she was slated to play.

OMG! LOL!!! Forget that Aretha is over 70 years old that is not the issue. She is a national treasure and will always sell tickets even after being in the game for over 50 years! Sounds like he may have been hoping that Aretha's music would no longer attract people. But why would he feel like that? It is more than a bit strange to monitor concert ticket sales in general and downright creepy when you do that for musical legends.

**jobeterob** · 05-02-2014, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

OMG! LOL!!! Forget that Aretha is over 70 years old that is not the issue. She is a national treasure and will always sell tickets even after being in the game for over 50 years! Sounds like he may have been hoping that Aretha's music would no longer attract people. But why would he feel like that? It is more than a bit strange to monitor concert ticket sales in general and downright creepy when you do that for musical legends.

What about when you monitor every You Tube Video that gets posted for them and use a series of names to have conversations with yourself?