Hope for a proper stereo mix of Since I Lost My Baby?

[rovereab]

I stumbled across this Wiki regarding Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys and noticed the comment about the 2012 stereo mix of the song.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Vibrations

I have just purchased the song from iTunes and it sounds very good!

I wonder if there is hope for the same technology being applied to the stereo alternate vocal take of Since I Lost My Baby and the normal mono version of the song to create a proper stereo version of the normal vocal take version?

I'm not sure what the comment about "stems" means and I hope that this does not prevent the creation of a new stereo version of this excellent song.

Here's hoping this can be achieved

[bradburger]

Eamonn

Tom Moulton did a sync up of the single mix of SILMB with the multitrack [[or elements of it) that contained the alternate lead vocal for the 2005 'Motown Box', creating a first time stereo mix with the 45 vocal take.

He also did the same for 'Do You Love Me', and 'Shop Around'.

You can hear samples here: -

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-mo...x-mw0000312240

I don't own the 'Motown Box', but I recall the main criticism of these sync ups was that there was some phasing issues and other anomalies associated with this type of mix.

As for comment about 'stems', this seems to be the modern term given to the individual tracks of a multitrack tape or digital multitrack recording.

It would appear all 8 tracks or 'stems' for SILMB, are complete.

Cheers

Paul

Cheers

Paul

[soulster]

Stems are parts or tracks of a recording that are used to mix or blend into an already finished proper mix. They are a way for a mastering engineer to further tweak a finished mix.

The terminology often changes and gets confusing, even between countries. The steps are:

Recording [[known as "tracking" in the business)
Mixing
Mastering [[as in prepping for various formats for duplication)

It used to be that the recording and mixing were done together because of the limitations of the recording technology. The producer and engineer would bounce [[reduce in the U.K.) to other existsing tracks because there was precious real estate on the tape. These were the days of two, three, four, and eight-track. [[BTW, three-track was unique to the U.S. in the early 60s.) That is why, when you see credits in the 70s and early 80s for "remixing" on albums, that means they are tweaking the already mixed on-the-fly mixes. That doesn't always mean a brand new mix.

Recordings can be done live in the studio with little or no overdubs. Mixing is done on-the-fly. Many recordings are also done my tracking, then mixing in the elements. This got crazy in the 70s and 80s, as technology advanced. Today, the capability to add tracks gets silly with digital. 192 tracks???

Mastering was always a separate function, and mostly involved cutting the lacquer and for consumer tape like reel-to-reel, cassette, and 8-track cartridges.

As 16, and even 24+ track technology became available, there was less, or no longer a need to need to bounce tracks. All three became three discrete steps. However, during the 70s, mastering engineers were asked to sometimes add or blend in parts of a song after a finished mix was sent to them to make a better product.

Today, those steps are blurred. Mixing is again often done in the studio while tracking, and today, some misguided producers will add things like massive band compression and limiting to tracks and/or mixes, making things harder to master. On top of that, the poor mastering guy is sent these stems to, for example, make a vocal a db louder, or make guitar parts stand out here and there, whatever it takes to make the client happy. They are often asked to add more compression/limiting. And, that is on top of the job of prepping the mixes for CD, vinyl, and iTunes.

Remixers for club versions will use stems to create unique mixes.

Before the use of digital, there would be cases where a song could have as many as 100 or more tracks! Remember the song "Brandy [[You're A Fine Girl)" by The Looking Glass from 1972? There were somewhere around 100 mixes of that song alone, some with foghorns, and such. And, with milti-recording, with its multi-tracks and takes, it became possible to mix and match takes, and do punch-ins. It was also done for those live-in-the-studio recordings.

[[In the 70s and 80s, and beyond, I am personally delighted to discover when a recording was done "live" in the studio with all band members and vocalists present. I think it always makes for a better performance. For example, you know those big hits by Chicago or Earth, Wind & Fire in the 60s and 70s? They were mostly done live while being mixed on the fly, with nothing much more done, while bands like the Ohio Players would noodle around in the studio, and the engineer would create the recording from it, just like Art Stewart did with Marvin Gaye's "Got To Give It Up". Indeed, many people today long for the old days when a band could just go into a studio, cut a few takes, and have a record in a couple of days or weeks. Nowadays, especially with pop recordings, some named producer creates musical the track in a computer, and the singer later does their takes once. Then the producer/engineer tweaks it all in computer on his laptop in a motel room. The mastering guy gets the stems to tweak it.)

[rovereab]

Hi Paul - I have the "Motown Box" and that mix has a some key differences to the instrumental backing to the alternate lead vocal version which I also own. The instrumental intro sounds like it is monophonic and as soon as the vocal is about to start it widens out a bit. A strange mix overall as you mention above.

Hi Soulster - thanks for the explanation - enlightening!

Overall, the stereo mix of Good Vibrations is more convincing so perhaps technology has moved on since the Motown Box version of the song was created.

However, I am still mystified how a vocal can be "extracted" from a mono mix!

[bradburger]

Eamonn,

I've never heard the full mix of SILMB from 'The Motown Box' but thanks for describing how it sounds.

As you say, maybe it's time for a redone mix using the same methods as on the 'Good Vibrations' stereo mix you mention.

Soulster, thanks for the detailed description of the term 'stems'.

As often in the world of technology, these things can get confusing, even when you have an interest in them!

Cheers

Paul

[kje71]

Really wish Motown/Universal could give us access to the stems. The ones I've heard so far have all been amazing. Paid Downloads thru hip-o would be ideal

[bradburger]

Really wish Motown/Universal could give us access to the stems. The ones I've heard so far have all been amazing. Paid Downloads thru hip-o would be ideal

Totally agree!

It's been proven that there is a demand for these, and there is LOTS of talent out there who have shown how well they can mix and be creative with these tracks, bringing in a freshness and new life to them, as well as a new audience.

It seems to me that many who have been lucky to get hold of the 'Leaked' multitracks have often done a better job than some of the big names who have been paid to do them for official releases.

I dare say a lot of former Motown employees and others in the business might not agree, but I say to the top brass at Ume, it's time to make the Motown multitrack masters available for release!

Cheers

Paul

[soulster]

Really wish Motown/Universal could give us access to the stems. The ones I've heard so far have all been amazing. Paid Downloads thru hip-o would be ideal

Again: stems aren't the same as the multitracks. You could not remix anything with just stems, but you can embellish a finished mix with them.

[kje71]

Well, I meant the multitracks, there are about 12 full sessions I know of out in the wild.

Totally agree!

It's been proven that there is a demand for these, and there is LOTS of talent out there who have shown how well they can mix and be creative with these tracks, bringing in a freshness and new life to them, as well as a new audience.

It seems to me that many who have been lucky to get hold of the 'Leaked' multitracks have often done a better job than some of the big names who have been paid to do them for official releases.

I dare say a lot of former Motown employees and others in the business might not agree, but I say to the top brass at Ume, it's time to make the Motown multitrack masters available for release!

We are 100% on the same page. I mean, overall it'd still be a niche product, but it's not like it'd cost a lot for digital transfers since a lot of them already are. I'd gladly pay any price.