Jules Podell and Flo Ballard

[marybrewster]

It's been said that in 1966 [[?) / 1967 [[?) Berry Gordy wanted to present the Supremes at the Copacabana sans Flo Ballard. Not sure if this means Marlene Barrow would have stepped in? The story goes that Jules Podell said NO. This tells me that Podell was a man that got exactly what he wanted. He sure made Mr. Gordy listen.

So my question is: was Podell a Flo Ballard fan? If so, why didn't he have her appear at his Copa in 1968 after Flo starting releasing solo material? You could say that Berry might have "blacklisted" the Copa from his artists for future engagements, but wasn't the Copa THE place to be? Berry wouldn't have been THAT foolish? Certainly Podell had what it took to stand up to Berry.....and Berry listened.

[antceleb12]

From what I have read, I believe it's that Mr. Podell believed that having the three original Supremes would attract a biiger crowd, and that by having a replacement, fans would notice and would be less likely to purchase a ticket. I don
t know how much of it had to do with personal interest in Flo as much as it was about business.

[BayouMotownMan]

Podell was fond of Flo, she was a crowd pleaser with her comic jabs.

As far as Flo performing there, I don't think Flo put a whole show together. She only had two releases and both failed. Podell likely had no way of knowing where Flo was or how to reach her. Most of America didn't know. Motown press releases varied from saying she wanted to stop performing to opening an antique shop.

[Roberta75]

Podell was fond of Flo, she was a crowd pleaser with her comic jabs.

As far as Flo performing there, I don't think Flo put a whole show together. She only had two releases and both failed. Podell likely had no way of knowing where Flo was or how to reach her. Most of America didn't know. Motown press releases varied from saying she wanted to stop performing to opening an antique shop.

It seem that that poor Florence lacked the drive and ambition it take to be and stay a star imo.

Roberta

[franjoy56]

Little did Jules Podell know that Flo was right under his nose staying at a York Avenue duplex apartment in the spring of 1968 when she started recording her solo tracks right down the road to the east side of Manhattan.

[Roberta75]

Little did Jules Podell know that Flo was right under his nose staying at a York Avenue duplex apartment in the spring of 1968 when she started recording her solo tracks right down the road to the east side of Manhattan.

Then why didnt Flo or tommy tell mr Podell. If he was that fond of Flo then hed probably have booked her for the Copa Frances.

Roberta

[marv2]

Then why didnt Flo or tommy tell mr Podell. If he was that fond of Flo then hed probably have booked her for the Copa Frances.

Roberta

No shit Sherlock! Florence was in the advance stages of pregnancy by that time and spend some days and some nights in the recording studio while in New York. She had no time to put together an entire for the Copa.

[Roberta75]

No shit Sherlock! Florence was in the advance stages of pregnancy by that time and spend some days and some nights in the recording studio while in New York. She had no time to put together an entire for the Copa.

But given mr podells fondness for dear Florence wouldnt he still met with Flo and tommy and been real happy to book Flo into the copa after the twins was born.
another missed opportunity for poor Florence imo.

[reese]

In the Ribowsky book on the Supremes, their manager Shelly Berger said that the story about Podell insisting that Flo appear was not true.

In a REACH OUT! newlsetter interview, I believe Cholly Atkins said that he helped put together an act for Flo once she became a solo performer. The opening number was HEY LOOK ME OVER. The only place I've heard that she did an engagement was at the Wonder Garden in Atlantic City.

[BayouMotownMan]

She was an opening act so likely the show was only about 30 min

[antceleb12]

I posted this a while back, but maybe someone has some idea where it might be from. It appears to be a solo gig from 1968 or 1969.

[reese]

I also read [[somewhere) that there was a spot opening for Wilson Pickett.

[antceleb12]

I believe she also performed at Nixon's inauguration ball.

There was also a parade in Chicago with Godfrey Cambridge, an appearance with Bill Cosby, several magazine appearances. It seems Flo was so close, but missed the boat...

[Roberta75]

I believe she also performed at Nixon's inauguration ball.

All I can say is Florence must have needed the work real bad to perform at that mans ball.

I hope she got paid good.

Roberta

[supremester]

I don't really believe that story. I'm sure he loved Flo - who didn't? Give Berry an ultimatum about a top draw at The Copa? I doubt it. First, The Supremes were always SRO at that place - no one would know until the got there so how could it hurt business? Second, the next engagement and all future engagements didn't have Flo anyway, so much for that theory. I just don't buy it - like the Hello Dolly story - it sounds good until you think about it and really it doesn't hold water. I would have killed to see her act. I would be attending all of her shows if she was still Flo sassing audiences. Can you imagine RTL with DMF???????????

[antceleb12]

I don't really believe that story. I'm sure he loved Flo - who didn't? Give Berry an ultimatum about a top draw at The Copa? I doubt it. First, The Supremes were always SRO at that place - no one would know until the got there so how could it hurt business? Second, the next engagement and all future engagements didn't have Flo anyway, so much for that theory. I just don't buy it - like the Hello Dolly story - it sounds good until you think about it and really it doesn't hold water. I would have killed to see her act. I would be attending all of her shows if she was still Flo sassing audiences. Can you imagine RTL with DMF???????????

Don't shoot the messenger, just repeating what I've read...

[marv2]

I don't really believe that story. I'm sure he loved Flo - who didn't? Give Berry an ultimatum about a top draw at The Copa? I doubt it. First, The Supremes were always SRO at that place - no one would know until the got there so how could it hurt business? Second, the next engagement and all future engagements didn't have Flo anyway, so much for that theory. I just don't buy it - like the Hello Dolly story - it sounds good until you think about it and really it doesn't hold water. I would have killed to see her act. I would be attending all of her shows if she was still Flo sassing audiences. Can you imagine RTL with DMF???????????

The story [[about Jules Podell insisting on having Florence Ballard in the group) is true! Shelly Berger is full of shit!

Yes he/they gave Berry an ultimatum. If you want to play in the big time, you play by the rules........their rules! [[I'm not going much further than this because it is not that important to educate you here.....).

Yes it did matter who was in the Supremes! You saw what happened with Diane's "Return to LOOOOOVE" tour!

The story that never held water with me is the one Motown, Berry, Diane, Smokey etc always told about changing groups names to feature the lead singer allowing them to ask for and get more money for the same act with the same members! That shit never made sense or sounded to true to me from the first time I heard that explanation.

[supremester]

I'm not shooting you - did it seem that way? I'm sorry if it did, I'm just discussing

[Roberta75]

I just google Jules Podell and he pass in 1973 so we will never really know what conversation went on between Mr Gordy and Mr Podell.

Roberta

[marv2]

It's been said that in 1966 [[?) / 1967 [[?) Berry Gordy wanted to present the Supremes at the Copacabana sans Flo Ballard. Not sure if this means Marlene Barrow would have stepped in? The story goes that Jules Podell said NO. This tells me that Podell was a man that got exactly what he wanted. He sure made Mr. Gordy listen.

So my question is: was Podell a Flo Ballard fan? If so, why didn't he have her appear at his Copa in 1968 after Flo starting releasing solo material? You could say that Berry might have "blacklisted" the Copa from his artists for future engagements, but wasn't the Copa THE place to be? Berry wouldn't have been THAT foolish? Certainly Podell had what it took to stand up to Berry.....and Berry listened.

You are kidding right? Jules Podell was mobbed up to the hilt! Flo was a standout onstage and audiences loved her.......including Mr. Podell.

[floyjoy678]

Shelly Berger isn't full of shit, Mark Ribowsky is full of shit. Florence and Mary, especially Florence, were still quite popular with the audiences and fans in 1966. After Diana, Florence was the most popular Supreme. And yes it is well known that Podell had mafia connections. Either way Florence was back and Marlene was gone, also it's been suggested that Diana wanted Florence back because she performed better with Florence's voice underneath hers.

[marv2]

Shelly Berger isn't full of shit, Mark Ribowsky is full of shit. Florence and Mary, especially Florence, were still quite popular with the audiences and fans in 1966. After Diana, Florence was the most popular Supreme. And yes it is well known that Podell had mafia connections. Either way Florence was back and Marlene was gone, also it's been suggested that Diana wanted Florence back because she performed better with Florence's voice underneath hers.

Shelly Berger is full of shit, ok? I don't know who Ribowsky is other than he wrote a few books. I know who Shelly is and the kinds of things he says and has said about certain people he did not like.......

Furthermore, Jules Podell had a point which Berry Gordy came to understand later which is why they started having Cindy Birdsong attempt to deliver some of Florence's "spontaneous" stage patter. Those quips only worked for Florence.

[jobeterob]

Shelly Berger is full of shit, ok? I don't know who Ribowsky is other than he wrote a few books. I know who Shelly is and the kinds of things he says and has said about certain people he did not like.......

Furthermore, Jules Podell had a point which Berry Gordy came to understand later which is why they started having Cindy Birdsong attempt to deliver some of Florence's "spontaneous" stage patter. Those quips only worked for Florence.

And this is somehow different from you Marv?

[marv2]

And this is somehow different from you Marv?

Shouldn't you be somewhere collecting defense fund money for that cadet that got his ass beat fooling around with Patti and them?

[antceleb12]

Either way Florence was back and Marlene was gone, also it's been suggested that Diana wanted Florence back because she performed better with Florence's voice underneath hers.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Just shows that Mary and Florence were very valuable assets to everyone involved.

[marv2]

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Just shows that Mary and Florence were very valuable assets to everyone involved.

This is true. There would not have been a Supremes group without them!

[milven]

This is true. There would not have been a Supremes group without them!

That is true. Without them, there would be no Supremes. But if there were no Supremes, would Diana Ross , Florence Ballad and Mary Wilson have been able to launch successful solo careers?

[antceleb12]

That is true. Without them, there would be no Supremes. But if there were no Supremes, would Diana Ross , Florence Ballad and Mary Wilson have been able to launch successful solo careers?

Intriguing. Gordy was able to get Diana from not singing in that high, nasally tone pre-WDOLG. However, she was also extremely self-motivated and determined. So I think she would have found fame in some way or another [[possibly in fashion).

Florence and Mary were also extremely dedicated [[otherwise none of those girls would have been signed to Motown), but to what extent they would have achieved stardom isn't quite as obvious.

[supremester]

Gil told me Berry wanted Flo gone for quite a while. They were all tired of the tardiness and Berry felt getting rid of Flo would solve a lot of problems and get Mary to be on time as well. He said Diana and Mary wanted Flo to stay and ignored Berry's comments and threats on the subject. As things grew worse, Gil stepped in but to no avail. He was there the first night Flo was a last minute no show. He never said she was drunk, btw [[but I think he preferred not to make that an issue) . He did say that everyone was on edge waiting for her and when it was announced they would go on without her, he went to the girl's dressing room. There he saw Diana, fully made up in costume, slunk down on a chair against the wall sobbing. He said she looked so small - that her eye makeup and stage attire were bigger than she was. "Just skin and bones sticking out of a dress. No human form. It struck how this little nothing could be the reason everyone is here." He felt like crying himself. He went over to her and bent down and hugged her. She asked through her tears, lost, "what are we gonna do?" and he assured her "we'll be fine." He said she was exhausted, had no idea how they could do a show as a duet and was scared for Flo. The group ended that night and they knew nothing could stop the inevitable change now. I think he said Mary was crying as well. He got up and quietly but assuredly told them what to do. In 5 minutes they were conversing and in 10, Diana was talking out loud about how they'd do this and that. That this wasn't going to be so bad. Mary joined in and they got ready and went on just a few minutes after start time. They were great. He was so proud of them. They did what they had to do and made it work in the round. Afterwards, they were sad, angry and spent. I think they were a duo again the next night - then Marlene came in. He was surprised Flo was given another chance and speculated that Diana had something to do with it because Gordy wasn't having it. Oh, he praised their singing and Mary adjusting her voice to make "a complete sound with Diane." I never asked him what a complete sound was. It happened again a while later and Flo was suspended. I wonder how marlene was paid - did she get Flo money? was Flo paid? He also mentioned that both Diana & Mary were angry at Flo but still looved her and it was very tough. He always referred to Miss Ross as Diana and always referred to Flo as Florence. He was firm in that Flo's drinking was not the issue - he said she just simply couldn't keep up.

Shelly Berger isn't full of shit, Mark Ribowsky is full of shit. Florence and Mary, especially Florence, were still quite popular with the audiences and fans in 1966. After Diana, Florence was the most popular Supreme. And yes it is well known that Podell had mafia connections. Either way Florence was back and Marlene was gone, also it's been suggested that Diana wanted Florence back because she performed better with Florence's voice underneath hers.

[Roberta75]

Gil told me Berry wanted Flo gone for quite a while. They were all tired of the tardiness and Berry felt getting rid of Flo would solve a lot of problems and get Mary to be on time as well. He said Diana and Mary wanted Flo to stay and ignored Berry's comments and threats on the subject. As things grew worse, Gil stepped in but to no avail. He was there the first night Flo was a last minute no show. He never said she was drunk, btw [[but I think he preferred not to make that an issue) . He did say that everyone was on edge waiting for her and when it was announced they would go on without her, he went to the girl's dressing room. There he saw Diana, fully made up in costume, slunk down on a chair against the wall sobbing. He said she looked so small - that her eye makeup and stage attire were bigger than she was. "Just skin and bones sticking out of a dress. No human form. It struck how this little nothing could be the reason everyone is here." He felt like crying himself. He went over to her and bent down and hugged her. She asked through her tears, lost, "what are we gonna do?" and he assured her "we'll be fine." He said she was exhausted, had no idea how they could do a show as a duet and was scared for Flo. The group ended that night and they knew nothing could stop the inevitable change now. I think he said Mary was crying as well. He got up and quietly but assuredly told them what to do. In 5 minutes they were conversing and in 10, Diana was talking out loud about how they'd do this and that. That this wasn't going to be so bad. Mary joined in and they got ready and went on just a few minutes after start time. They were great. He was so proud of them. They did what they had to do and made it work in the round. Afterwards, they were sad, angry and spent. I think they were a duo again the next night - then Marlene came in. He was surprised Flo was given another chance and speculated that Diana had something to do with it because Gordy wasn't having it. Oh, he praised their singing and Mary adjusting her voice to make "a complete sound with Diane." I never asked him what a complete sound was. It happened again a while later and Flo was suspended. I wonder how marlene was paid - did she get Flo money? was Flo paid? He also mentioned that both Diana & Mary were angry at Flo but still looved her and it was very tough. He always referred to Miss Ross as Diana and always referred to Flo as Florence. He was firm in that Flo's drinking was not the issue - he said she just simply couldn't keep up.

Poor poor Florence heartbreaking and real sad. I think it all stem from the rape and maybe her lack of drive for stardom and I don't think she like show business much and you have to have drive and determination to survive in that business.

Well we can all take consolation and comfort knowing that Flo Ballard is singing with the angeles now in her Fathers heavenly mansion.

And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.

In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going for that place is Heaven.

Roberta

[marv2]

Gil told me Berry wanted Flo gone for quite a while. They were all tired of the tardiness and Berry felt getting rid of Flo would solve a lot of problems and get Mary to be on time as well. He said Diana and Mary wanted Flo to stay and ignored Berry's comments and threats on the subject. As things grew worse, Gil stepped in but to no avail. He was there the first night Flo was a last minute no show. He never said she was drunk, btw [[but I think he preferred not to make that an issue) . He did say that everyone was on edge waiting for her and when it was announced they would go on without her, he went to the girl's dressing room. There he saw Diana, fully made up in costume, slunk down on a chair against the wall sobbing. He said she looked so small - that her eye makeup and stage attire were bigger than she was. "Just skin and bones sticking out of a dress. No human form. It struck how this little nothing could be the reason everyone is here." He felt like crying himself. He went over to her and bent down and hugged her. She asked through her tears, lost, "what are we gonna do?" and he assured her "we'll be fine." He said she was exhausted, had no idea how they could do a show as a duet and was scared for Flo. The group ended that night and they knew nothing could stop the inevitable change now. I think he said Mary was crying as well. He got up and quietly but assuredly told them what to do. In 5 minutes they were conversing and in 10, Diana was talking out loud about how they'd do this and that. That this wasn't going to be so bad. Mary joined in and they got ready and went on just a few minutes after start time. They were great. He was so proud of them. They did what they had to do and made it work in the round. Afterwards, they were sad, angry and spent. I think they were a duo again the next night - then Marlene came in. He was surprised Flo was given another chance and speculated that Diana had something to do with it because Gordy wasn't having it. Oh, he praised their singing and Mary adjusting her voice to make "a complete sound with Diane." I never asked him what a complete sound was. It happened again a while later and Flo was suspended. I wonder how marlene was paid - did she get Flo money? was Flo paid? He also mentioned that both Diana & Mary were angry at Flo but still looved her and it was very tough. He always referred to Miss Ross as Diana and always referred to Flo as Florence. He was firm in that Flo's drinking was not the issue - he said she just simply couldn't keep up.

Was he still drinking before or after he told you this?

[supremester]

Not as much as Mary was at Feinsteins the night she lost her "wrap" in the mic stand. No, I'd have to say, no he wasn't.

Was he still drinking before or after he told you this?

[smark21]

According to wiki, Jules Podell was installed as manager of the Copa in 1940 to front for Frank Costello a major mafia chieftain, but by 1950, Podell was no longer a front, but truly managing the place. But mob connected, no doubt. A few years ago, Podell’s daughter published a book about The Copa.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Copa-Podel...ell+Copacabana

[stephanie]

I am shocked that there are no reviews of how Diana and Mary sounded as a duet! I bet that would have been interesting to see. Now I understand the kind of pressure Ross was under to carry that group. When things went sour she was being blamed for it because of the relationship with Berry and nutty fans who dont know the behind the scenes. Kudos to Mary Wilson keeping it together at a time like this. Poor Flo.

[sup_fan]

part of me feels sorry for flo and part of me doesn't. the pressures the 3 girls were under was mind blowing. never-ending travel to gigs, multiple shows a night, recording, rehearsals, press events, photo shoots, gown fittings. and keep in mind they were all of 20, 21, 22 during all of this.

i find Gil's comments hugely insightful. especially how torn up M and D were about the flo situation.

i remember reading in an older Randy book a line that i found rather interesting. i'm paraphrasing here but basically is read that some motown execs were annoyed by Flo's rebellion not simply because of the problems it caused at the time but that if it was individual attention and stardom she craved, then frankly she should have pushed that years prior. let's face it, Diana was just a high school kid when they started. but she knew she wanted to be a star and worked for it from day one.

i certainly don't think that all of flo's problems were her own doing. the supposed rape, the problems with the group, etc. but certainly she contributed some to her own downfall

[luke]

lol. Would someone count up how many shows Flo missed, especially compared to other entertainers? And she was blasted for getting ill and yet Diana got ill and concerts got cancelled. The immediate issue that got her fired was sticking her stomach out. Yet the reviews praised their show that night and Flo felt her dress wasnt the right size. It's interesting how many people just buy in to Motowns version of things. Look at the Motown musical--about as far from reality as you can get. Diana was giddy with delight when Flo got canned. She reported her constantly to Berry. Did she think that would help Flo staying in the group?

[marv2]

lol. Would someone count up how many shows Flo missed, especially compared to other entertainers? And she was blasted for getting ill and yet Diana got ill and concerts got cancelled. The immediate issue that got her fired was sticking her stomach out. Yet the reviews praised their show that night and Flo felt her dress wasnt the right size. It's interesting how many people just buy in to Motowns version of things. Look at the Motown musical--about as far from reality as you can get. Diana was giddy with delight when Flo got canned. She reported her constantly to Berry. Did she think that would help Flo staying in the group?

You got that right Luke! They buy into all that Motown crap hook, line and sinker! Some not only go along with that lousy explanation as to why already popular, famous groups were renamed. The rationale given that with the lead singer's name out front, Motown could command more money from promoters and booking agents. etc. Now how much sense does that make? LOL!!!!

[marv2]

lol. Would someone count up how many shows Flo missed, especially compared to other entertainers? And she was blasted for getting ill and yet Diana got ill and concerts got cancelled. The immediate issue that got her fired was sticking her stomach out. Yet the reviews praised their show that night and Flo felt her dress wasnt the right size. It's interesting how many people just buy in to Motowns version of things. Look at the Motown musical--about as far from reality as you can get. Diana was giddy with delight when Flo got canned. She reported her constantly to Berry. Did she think that would help Flo staying in the group?

Diane was happier than a pig in shit when Flo was fired by Berry~! True, she'd tattle on Flo to Berry every chance she got while they were out on the road. She tried to help Florence Ballard about as much as she's trying to help Cindy Birdsong..........

[bradsupremes]

She tried to help Florence Ballard about as much as she's trying to help Cindy Birdsong..........

Diana is a private person. Please don't try make her out to be a woman who doesn't care about her former singing partners. I know she cares about Cindy, but she doesn't need to announce it to the world when she helps her former group members. Just like you or I who help a friend in need. The world doesn't need to know.

[marv2]

Diana is a private person. Please don't try make her out to be a woman who doesn't care about her former singing partners. I know she cares about Cindy, but she doesn't need to announce it to the world when she helps her former group members. Just like you or I who help a friend in need. The world doesn't need to know.

Yeah.....well..... BUT! Friends and others I have helped in this life have told people, thus making it public. I will not hold my breathe waiting to hear Cindy Birdsong thanking Diane for all the "private help"!

To me when people use the excuse that " well she's a private person....." I view it as a cop out; a cover up for not really caring.

[jobeterob]

Diana is a private person. Please don't try make her out to be a woman who doesn't care about her former singing partners. I know she cares about Cindy, but she doesn't need to announce it to the world when she helps her former group members. Just like you or I who help a friend in need. The world doesn't need to know.

Brad

You are a true gentlemen and smart on top of it.

Can we arrange for you and Andy to give some lessons on behaviour to the resident troll, Marv?

You're a good fellow and are appreciated a lot by many of us.

Rob

[rod_rick]

I have to agree with you Brad. The first time I remember Diana lending Mary money was in Mary's book. Also if a person do not let it be know you are in trouble how can you help them. People in show business always like to put a positive spin on things unless they are truly dogging someone out. I could be wrong but I think that Cindy has gotten the help she needed because I sent a check in September and it has not been cashed or returned. As for Mary omitting things from her book, her goal was to get the book published so I'm sure there are a lot of things left out her book just like Ms Ross left things out of her book. For example Mary didn't put a thing regarding Rhonda being Berry's daughter in her book, and I don't recall Diana saying anything about pleading with Berry to keep Flo in the groupor her possibly resenting Flo from being less than professional. It was nice to hear of Gil's account of the situation with the Supremes. Now he should right a book.
How did Gil feel about Cindy Birdsong?

[supremester]

I've always felt part of Diana's Flo issue was that she genuinely cared for Flo, but was beyond angry and annoyed at her for the reasons one would suspect, so she would be torn - but also remember Flo was popular and everyone at Motown knew that. Firing Flo was a gamble and I think it was harder for Miss Ross to roll those dice than Berry. I recall one interview specifically that she wondered at the time if the public would accept "the new group" and if not, maybe she would go out as a solo. To give late bloomers an idea of Flo's je ne sais quoi: of the two, Mary was classically much prettier and way more talented as a vocalist - yet Flo was by far more popular. A trio with 10 #1's in less than three years? You don't mess with it unless you absolutely have to. Gil loved Cindy, and at the time, I was still anti-Cindy, so I didn't beyond his comments on her. He did say about JML, wistfully, "....I just hated to see that group break up...." It's not true that he never worked with The Supremes after Lady, as he still did some of their charts and conducted when he wasn't out with Ross.

I have to agree with you Brad. The first time I remember Diana lending Mary money was in Mary's book. Also if a person do not let it be know you are in trouble how can you help them. People in show business always like to put a positive spin on things unless they are truly dogging someone out. I could be wrong but I think that Cindy has gotten the help she needed because I sent a check in September and it has not been cashed or returned. As for Mary omitting things from her book, her goal was to get the book published so I'm sure there are a lot of things left out her book just like Ms Ross left things out of her book. For example Mary didn't put a thing regarding Rhonda being Berry's daughter in her book, and I don't recall Diana saying anything about pleading with Berry to keep Flo in the groupor her possibly resenting Flo from being less than professional. It was nice to hear of Gil's account of the situation with the Supremes. Now he should right a book.
How did Gil feel about Cindy Birdsong?

[Roberta75]

Diane was happier than a pig in shit when Flo was fired by Berry~! True, she'd tattle on Flo to Berry every chance she got while they were out on the road. She tried to help Florence Ballard about as much as she's trying to help Cindy Birdsong..........

marv2 hid under Mr Gordys bed and in Mr Gordys closet and under his desk at Hitsvile so marv2 heard every conversation between Diane and Mr Gordy and Flo and Mr Gordy and Mary and Mr Gordy and Diane and Flo and Diane and Mary.

marv2s a Motown insider Im real surprised marv2 hasnt written his book Supreme Eavsdropping' yet.

[marv2]

marv2 hid under Mr Gordys bed and in Mr Gordys closet and under his desk at Hitsvile so marv2 heard every conversation between Diane and Mr Gordy and Flo and Mr Gordy and Mary and Mr Gordy and Diane and Flo and Diane and Mary.

marv2s a Motown insider Im real surprised marv2 hasnt written his book Supreme Eavsdropping' yet.

NAH Fool! Some [[maybe ALL) of the folks you just mentioned I know [[but you'll never know, hehehehehe....). Don't have to eavesdrop fool, some information is not top secret. Some of it does not have to have clearance or prior authorization. Whether it is this or that, I will would never go too deep on this or any other public forum that are visited by clowns like you with the truly private business of others, Motown Alumni especially included.

[jobeterob]

Luke and Mark

You need to read the following post regarding Bradsupremes Post on the Supreme Marlene thread, then take it to heart and stop letting your imaginations run away with you.


Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post

Am I the only one who thinks Barbara was a bad first choice to replace Florence? She would have fit in visually as she was beautiful, but vocally...no. I'm not saying she isn't a great singer, but her vocal timbre wouldn't have blended with Mary's. The group needed a soprano and I don't believe Barbara was a soprano. It would have been Diana, a mezzo-soprano, with Mary & Barbara who I assume are both altos. It would have thrown off the entire group sound. Marlene Barrow was the opposite. Vocally she was perfect with the group, but she was shorter than Diana and Mary so the visuals would have been throw off. They made the right choice in Cindy Birdsong.
Probably exactly the kind of procedure they went through.

Far too rational for the ten conspiracy theorist fans that see conspiracy in everything Motown, Berry & Diana did.




Today, 04:19 PM #55


RossHolloway
Join Date:Aug 2010Posts:1,441


Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post

Probably exactly the kind of procedure they went through.

Far too rational for the ten conspiracy theorist fans that see conspiracy in everything Motown, Berry & Diana did.
LOL Best post this week.

[supremester]

Gil LOVED DMF - all three of them. He was very fatherly towards them and felt they were treated horribly. He was sick about Flo leaving and saw that the group was way bigger than three girls. It was a cash machine and Flo didn't fit in. He said she hated flying and always wanted to be home. In hindsight, maybe they should have kept Flo in the group for big things and traded her off with Cindy. Gil blamed Berry, ultimately for everything. He respected him but I don't think he liked him. He agreed with Berry about Flo's position in the group, but it was he and Diana that got Mary her solos and it took a lot to do it. Berry did not like Mary's voice and even after her success with People, fought them on a full solo. Mary KNOWS this and chose to omit it from her book. But I digress. My talks with Harvey and Gil were so enlightening and Gil, acted out acting out his vision of the first Copa act.......is a very very cherished memory. It's as if no one had even spoken to him about this stuff and the dam burst. Harvey was more Q&A and he was all for dumping Flo. I can see, from a management POV, Flo was a huge problem and was holding the group back. I think Diana & Mary's pleadings kept Flo in longer than Berry wanted, and I know Miss Ross was concerned for the group without Flo because she said so in interviews. But, in the heat of the moment, no shows or other acts of noncompliance would be very hard to take and I'm sure Miss Ross felt reporting all of the infractions might have been a way to hopefully get them solved. Gordy couldn't fix a problem he doesn't know about. She also may have been tattling just for spite - things get that way sometimes. I don't recall being told how Mary was about it. But botom line, everything WAS dumped on Ross and her work load was far greater - I can see her resenting less than 100% when she is required to give 300% - for the same money, mind you.

[marv2]

and I know Miss Ross was concerned for the group without Flo because she said so in interviews. .

Not here! Here she lies about Flo and says that Flo wanted to go into another kind of business career, that Flo wanted to be off for a while and travel to some islands and relax somewhere........ HA! She also talks about Cindy being Flo's understudy and that they had ANOTHER understudy [[for Mary?).......

So are you sure you know what you are talking about? hmmmmm.........

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Arc...78265/?page=12

[supremester]

Relax Miss Thang - don't get your panties in a bunch over a press interview from 40 years ago over a very sensitive subject. That was the company line. Geeesh. This from a guy who idolizes a woman who claimed for years she she and Miss Ross :saw each other and talked a lot more than the public knows""" LOLOLOLOL Get over your dress, honey - it's wrinkled!

Not here! Here she lies about Flo and says that Flo wanted to go into another kind of business career, that Flo wanted to be off for a while and travel to some islands and relax somewhere........ HA! She also talks about Cindy being Flo's understudy and that they had ANOTHER understudy [[for Mary?).......

So are you sure you know what you are talking about? hmmmmm.........

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Arc...78265/?page=12

[skooldem1]

She certainly didn't go to the press when she loaned Mary money. Can you imagine if she went to the press with Mary's woes so money could be raised for her?