'70s Supremes and the Andantes

[antceleb12]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I wonder if anyone [[particularly Andy or anyone else with access to the logs).

We all know that the Andantes were very involved with Supremes recordings during the '60's, but how often were they on Supremes records post-Diana? And did they use session singers after Motown moved to L.A. on the girls?

I've read that the Andantes were on "Up the Ladder." It sounds like they could be on "Nathan Jones," too. Anyone know others that they were on?

[marybrewster]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I wonder if anyone [[particularly Andy or anyone else with access to the logs).

We all know that the Andantes were very involved with Supremes recordings during the '60's, but how often were they on Supremes records post-Diana? And did they use session singers after Motown moved to L.A. on the girls?

I've read that the Andantes were on "Up the Ladder." It sounds like they could be on "Nathan Jones," too. Anyone know others that they were on?

I think it was The Blackberries on "Nathan Jones"?

[antceleb12]

I think it was The Blackberries on "Nathan Jones"?

According to Wikipedia [[taking it with a grain of salt), it says Clydie King did exxtra vocals, but you could be right, too. I just took another listen and it doesn't sound like the Andantes.

[rod_rick]

I think it was The Blackberries on "Nathan Jones"?

The Andantes are on Right On and Floy Joy for sure. I believe Clydie King is the extra voice on the other sessions with Mary and Cindy. Cindy and Jean both confirmed the additional voice.. The difference with the most of 70 recording, the Andantes were you in support not instead of Mary & Cindy on most of those sessions

[bradsupremes]

The Andantes are definitely on a lot of the early 70's Supremes recordings. Most of the tracks on the Right On album are the Andantes. New Ways But Loves Stays has no Andantes. It's beginning to end Jean, Mary, and Cindy. The Andantes appear again on such tracks as "Touch," and the Floy Joy album, but I don't hear them that much after those earlier recordings with Jean. I'm sure the Blackberries were used on the Touch album and during the Promises Kept sessions. I can't say I hear any other ladies besides Mary and Cindy on the Supremes/Four Tops sessions. We also have to remember Motown was using 16 track multitracks by this time which allowed more space for dubbing and additional vocals. Either Mary, Cindy and Jean dubbed their vocals several times or more ladies were added to the mix to the point where you can't recognize who is singing.

I always assumed "Nathan Jones" was Jean, Mary, Cindy and Clydie King. In fact, Cindy stated when they were recording the song Clydie King was there at the studio and Frank Wilson asked her to sing with the ladies to give it a fuller sound. I believe Clydie confirmed this too.

[jobeterob]

The Andantes are on Right On and Floy Joy for sure. I believe Clydie King is the extra voice on the other sessions with Mary and Cindy. Cindy and Jean both confirmed the additional voice.. The difference with the most of 70 recording, the Andantes were you in support not instead of Mary & Cindy on most of those sessions

That's a vital difference.

Good knowledge Brad and thanks for the post.

[marybrewster]

I can't imagine the Andantes are on anything "Supremes" post-1972.

Makes you wonder if Motown had stayed, if Jimmy Webb would have used them instead of the Blackberries?

Does anyone know what sessions were the LAST to use the Andantes? Perhaps songs used in "Floy Joy"? Or "Black Magic" by the Vandellas?

[jobeterob]

There might be some information in the Andantes book on the end of their involvement with Motown, although my recollection is that it is the normal end we have heard about - they were gone and we weren't really told. I have it at home. I'll take a look.

[supremester]

I'm not an expert on the bgs, but I'm trying to be. I always "heard" only JMC on Nathan Jones and thot Jean was on the bg because I don't hear a 4th voice even though we know there is one. On I Wish I were Your Mirror, I can't hear Mary at all, yet at times there are three voices that seem to be too high to be Mary........ Are you sure she's on it?

The Andantes are definitely on a lot of the early 70's Supremes recordings. Most of the tracks on the Right On album are the Andantes. New Ways But Loves Stays has no Andantes. It's beginning to end Jean, Mary, and Cindy. The Andantes appear again on such tracks as "Touch," and the Floy Joy album, but I don't hear them that much after those earlier recordings with Jean. I'm sure the Blackberries were used on the Touch album and during the Promises Kept sessions. I can't say I hear any other ladies besides Mary and Cindy on the Supremes/Four Tops sessions. We also have to remember Motown was using 16 track multitracks by this time which allowed more space for dubbing and additional vocals. Either Mary, Cindy and Jean dubbed their vocals several times or more ladies were added to the mix to the point where you can't recognize who is singing.

I always assumed "Nathan Jones" was Jean, Mary, Cindy and Clydie King. In fact, Cindy stated when they were recording the song Clydie King was there at the studio and Frank Wilson asked her to sing with the ladies to give it a fuller sound. I believe Clydie confirmed this too.

[floyjoy678]

"Stoned Love" sounds very Andantes-ish to me on several parts of the song on parts like "I find no other", "Don't you hear the wind", "Say it like it is", "I pray for peace".

[supremester]

I think The A's are on Stoned Love with Mary & Cindy. It might be like Going Down For The 3rd Time where they came in to do adds, but I definitely hear Mary & Cindy alone as well. I'm certain I'm hearing The A's on Na Na Hey Hey......

[antceleb12]

Thanks, everyone! Definitely a big help.

"Stoned Love" sounds very Andantes-ish to me on several parts of the song on parts like "I find no other", "Don't you hear the wind", "Say it like it is", "I pray for peace".

I was just thinking that, too. Definitely sounds like more than just Mary & Cindy. I read somewhere [[possibly Mary's book - I can't remember) that all three Supremes - Mary, Cindy AND Jean would often record the backgrounds. I find it interesting because, to me, Mary & Cindy on background sound totally different with Jean than they did with Diana.

[marv2]

Thanks, everyone! Definitely a big help.



I was just thinking that, too. Definitely sounds like more than just Mary & Cindy. I read somewhere [[possibly Mary's book - I can't remember) that all three Supremes - Mary, Cindy AND Jean would often record the backgrounds. I find it interesting because, to me, Mary & Cindy on background sound totally different with Jean than they did with Diana.

You are right antceleb12. It was only Mary, Jean and Cindy singing on "Stoned Love" and no one else. Jean has said several times that she would record her lead and then join Mary and Cindy on the backgroud harmonies. Mary has told me years and years ago that it was just the three on them on "Stoned Love". I know their voices and can distinguish them from other singers especially on that record.

[marv2]

Here's a good, crisp copy...........

[supremester]

I'm still not convinced about Stoned Love but that is a crisp copy. I was playing Meet The Supremes this morning and it never fails to point out how strong Mary;s sound was. On almost every track, her voice is the foundation of the bg. I'm not knocking the others at all, but it's Mary that anchors almost every track. You can usually hear Flo or Diana more distinctly as there voices stand out, but the real depth of those killer backgrounds like Never Again is all Mary.

[soulballad]

I'm hearing just Jean, Mary and Cindy on Stoned Loved as well. As for Meet The Supremes over half of those songs included Barbara Martin so the sound was fuller. To my ears I'm hearing Barbara's drier alto voice on Never Again it seems Mary's voice was in the Middle right under Flo with Flo of course on top harmony. Mary often says that they really lost the beautiful three part harmonies when they became a trio. I wonder how Barbara would have fit had she stayed.
.

[soulballad]

Also Frank Wilson used the Ladies from the Undisputed Truth on his productions [[he used them on the Four Tops Steal Water and "It's All In the Game) if any additional singers were used it was most likely them [[With the exception of Clydie King on Nathan Jones) I too noticed the very high sharp pitched voices on "I wish I Were Your Mirror" It didn't much sound like Cindy's second soprano on certain parts so likely other ladies were used to get the sound Frank was looking for. It was a great blend though! Also Louvaine Demps commented that the Andantes were also on the Sups and Tops albums. She said something to they effect of instead if it being the Magnificent Seven it should have actually Ten.

[marv2]

I'm hearing just Jean, Mary and Cindy on Stoned Loved as well. As for Meet The Supremes over half of those songs included Barbara Martin so the sound was fuller. To my ears I'm hearing Barbara's drier alto voice on Never Again it seems Mary's voice was in the Middle right under Flo with Flo of course on top harmony. Mary often says that they really lost the beautiful three part harmonies when they became a trio. I wonder how Barbara would have fit had she stayed.
.

That is it Soulballad! With four members ,the Supremes/Primettes were about to create superb 3 part harmonies. It was much more difficult when they became a 3 member group. This is the main reason why on some recordings, other voices were added to the background.

[rod_rick]

Also Frank Wilson used the Ladies from the Undisputed Truth so on his his productions [[he used them on the Four Tops Steal Water and "It's All In the Game) if any additional singers were used it was most likely them [[With the exception of Clydie King on Nathan Jones) I too noticed the very high sharp pitched voices on "I wish I Were Your Mirror" It didn't much sound like Cindy's second soprano on certain parts so likely other ladies were used to get the sound Frank was looking for. It was a great blend though! Also Louvaine Demps commented that the Andantes were also on the Sups and Tops albums. She said something to they effect of instead if it being the Magnificent Seven it should have actually Ten.

Soulballad
I used to think the same think about Cindy's voice until I heard her sing "My Tribute" on PTL. Cindy may have been a second soprano but she could hit 1st soprano notes, When I was younger I could sing 1st soprano. It's about the way you hit the note. If you notice when Cindy hit a very high soprano note, it has OOOO sound on top, like on "I WIsh I Were Your Mirror". Imo I think that producers didn't want to spend a lot of time trying to get a certain sound from the back ground singers or a bad note was hit so they would bring in other voices to clean it up, and maybe the artist didn't have much time either. You also have to remember that Mary, Cindy & Flo were approximating the sound of 3 singers in their live act. I was listening to the Talk Of The Town CD today and what I noticed is that Cindy was hiting the not pretty good, she just wasn't miked correctly. Mary & Cindy had a wonderful blend when they were miked correctly.

[supremester]

It still sounds like Mary to me, but I haven't the ear that a lot of you do here to separate the voices perfectly. The harmonies with the 4 were great, but as time proved, not needed to make the group a success and visually, the three were just ideal. Maybe Barbara would have made it better, but anyone who saw DMF would probably agree it would be hard to improve on the trio.

I'm hearing just Jean, Mary and Cindy on Stoned Loved as well. As for Meet The Supremes over half of those songs included Barbara Martin so the sound was fuller. To my ears I'm hearing Barbara's drier alto voice on Never Again it seems Mary's voice was in the Middle right under Flo with Flo of course on top harmony. Mary often says that they really lost the beautiful three part harmonies when they became a trio. I wonder how Barbara would have fit had she stayed.
.

[supremester]

Cindy is miked perfectly on what's left of The Symphony Medley on TCB and they sound great. However, I must admit I love when Mary is louder and she's in full voice on song endings - her rich, musky power is great.

[midnightman]

That's the Supremes alright on Stoned Love. You can tell the difference between that and "Up the Ladder to the Roof" which included both the Supremes and the Andantes, if I recall correctly.

[supremester]

I can hear Mary on "I will try and guide you" doing her foundation thing again, and both on their solo lines, but the rest could be just The A's or a combo. 40 plus years later and I'm still a sucker for that record. One of the things I love about Frank Wilson is his versatility and this is a perfect example: there is no other song at Motown that even resembles Up The Ladder. It's totally an original concept and is the perfectly crafted Supremes debut single from the deft use of hand claps to the lush, ethereal bg vocals that are brilliantly edited for effect.....he was so good at creating feeling and mood. Even on some of his records that I don't care for as much, I still respect his vision and creativity.

[rod_rick]

Cindy is miked perfectly on what's left of The Symphony Medley on TCB and they sound great. However, I must admit I love when Mary is louder and she's in full voice on song endings - her rich, musky power is great.

On the hits medley you can clearly hear Cindy on the tape version, not as much on the record. You are right about Symphony, that blend is perfect, I think that's why I like the Farewell lp because Cindy is louder in the mix and Mary adds her husky power when needed. I hear Mary and Cindy Up The Ladder but you can can tell the bg's are supported by additional voice right under Mary & Cindy. It's either The Andantes or mary Cindy and Jean. Whatever the case Mary & Cindy are there. Stoned Love sounds like Mary & Cindy, with Jean on certain parts.

Now this is the kind of conversation I like on this board

[sup_fan]

clearly many of the frank wilson songs have multiple vocal tracks. Loving Country, Touch are two very obvious examples. he really liked a layered sound, more reverb and echo. rather etherial. I think Ladder sounds like just MJC and maybe they're layered ontop of themselves

as for Stoned, i do also think the "say it like it is" sounds very andante-like. there's just a vocal quality that's pretty distinct. like on Love Child, then we can try it again and others. to my ear, this tone quality isn't on Ladder or Touch. so either it's other backgrounds or multi tracked Supremes. i do think it's quite possible that Frank recorded multiple backgrounds using MC and/or MJC to do the layer. but then perhaps after he was done with the girls on Stoned Love, he decided there needed to be some additional vocals. if MC weren't around, he might ahve grabbed the andantes

so on Floy Joy, let's see if we can identify who's singing what!

[supremester]

When you consider that Motown had no problem with Deke Richards grabbing Syreeta when Martha was busy - for a single release that they were hot on, using The A's on bg was probably not even a blip on their creative radars. On Floy Joy: No A's.........I hear Mary, Cindy & Smokey.

[antceleb12]

On the hits medley you can clearly hear Cindy on the tape version, not as much on the record. You are right about Symphony, that blend is perfect, I think that's why I like the Farewell lp because Cindy is louder in the mix and Mary adds her husky power when needed. I hear Mary and Cindy Up The Ladder but you can can tell the bg's are supported by additional voice right under Mary & Cindy. It's either The Andantes or mary Cindy and Jean. Whatever the case Mary & Cindy are there. Stoned Love sounds like Mary & Cindy, with Jean on certain parts.

Now this is the kind of conversation I like on this board

I think you hit the nail on the head. Whoever was added to Mary and Cindy's vocals always supported Mary and Cindy. During Di's time with the group, it seemed that the Andantes totally drowned out Mary & Florence, or outright substituted for them. Honestly, I think the JMC line-up - even live - had one of the best blends out of all the line-ups.

[sup_fan]

on Floy Joy lp though, there are times when it seems that the A's are more present that M&C. i can pretty much hear MJC on all of the tracks, although on the title track, it wouldn't shock me it's just Andantes and then Mary and Jean leads on top. or on some other tracks, it just sounds like M & C doing a quick, simpler background, either in unison or just basic harmonies. then the A's are doing the majroirty of the ooos', ahh's, and chords. like M&C might just be singing the basic chorus and then done

and then on other Floy Joy tracks, like Now the Bitter, there's a lot of M&C

[floyjoy678]

I agree that Floy Joy definitely has the Andantes on there BUT I do hear Cindy on certain parts like "Take meeeee!" but definitely hear the Andantes on "You're the man" and the outro chorus of the song sounds like the A's to me as well. I always thought it was unfair to not give Cindy a verse in the song.

[rod_rick]

I agree that Floy Joy definitely has the Andantes on there BUT I do hear Cindy on certain parts like "Take meeeee!" but definitely hear the Andantes on "You're the man" and the outro chorus of the song sounds like the A's to me as well. I always thought it was unfair to not give Cindy a verse in the song.

Flojoy
Not sure if you ever her the version that JMC performed on Merv Griffin, but Cindy does sing a verse or two try this link http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/t...70sstyle/files
click on merv3-1.MPG This site has several JMC performances from TV

[floyjoy678]

Yeah I've had that saved on my computer for a long time now and I didn't realize the first few times I listened to it that Cindy got a verse. I wonder if they didn't give Cindy a verse to sing because they knew she was on her way out of the group? My favorite version of the song is the unedited version on the 2000 Box set I just wish there was a stereo mix of it.

[marv2]

Flojoy
Not sure if you ever her the version that JMC performed on Merv Griffin, but Cindy does sing a verse or two try this link http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/t...70sstyle/files
click on merv3-1.MPG This site has several JMC performances from TV

I've heard that live performance and it was great with all three singing lead parts. Jean, Mary and Cindy all had distinctive voices.......the Andantes did not which is why they were used as merely instrumentation on recording sessions.

[marv2]

Check this out! She sings all the parts....... LOL!

[blueskies]

You go Maria.....though, Jean doesn't have to worry about anything!

[marv2]

You go Maria.....though, Jean doesn't have to worry about anything!

hehehehehehehehehe..............!

[jobeterob]

I've heard that live performance and it was great with all three singing lead parts. Jean, Mary and Cindy all had distinctive voices.......the Andantes did not which is why they were used as merely instrumentation on recording sessions.

You just stole the line they've used to describe Mary and Cindy and Flo! "merely instrumentation on Miss Ross's recording sessions". LOL.

You walked into that doorknob.

[soulballad]

This is a great live version of Love Train. Cindy really got to show her stuff here. Great line up!

[supremester]

What a killer clip! Is this part of a full video? I recognize the gowns.

[midnightman]

Do they still have the full-fledged Japan concert the Supremes headlined in 1975? I still love that clip of the Mary-Cindy-Scherrie lineup doing "Bad Weather".

[supremester]

Can someone, please, tell me why exactly the use of additional voices on records is a)controversial, b) different when it's post-Ross, c) different when it's DMF. I've noticed that someone posted on the New Ways thread that it's all JMC with no add'l voices - why does it matter? Is it considered an insult? Mary, for example, chose not to record on Love Child - or at least said she chose not to. Is there somehow an insult to their manhood if The A's are on Going Down For The Third Time? I keep reading these comments and I don't understand why it's an issue. Up The Ladder Someday, Stoned Love are all great records - does it matter who all is on them?

[sup_fan]

i don't know that anyone exactly is stating a problem with the A's. i do think it does make some difference, at least to avid fans. part of it is just the fact we want to know everything about everything when it comes to the Sups. but another factor is that, as strong fans of the group and the girls, we have an attachment to them. these aren't just songs recorded by some random girls. when you look at a major project like Sing Rodgers & Hart or Floy Joy, there's an artistic effort going on that fans also relate to. we care about the girls and, at least for myself, hope that there was some level of artistic involvement in the project. i know their lps were mostly handled by producers of some sort. but MJC have said that they still worked with Frank on listened to his concept, understood what he was trying to communicate via 10 or so tracks. like the Touch lp. and you get to an intresting track like Touch and there's so many things going on, vocally. it's a great credit to their artistry. but then to have it come out that it's not all DMC or MJC or whomever, it's can burst the bubble a bit. this isn't to say that we'll suddenly stop listening to Sups music. but for some of us fans it does make a difference.

[sup_fan]

1 more thing

also i think part of why it's a bit of an issue with the Jean years is that the DRATS period was so clearly all focused on Diana, that while it's unfortunate that C and M weren't featured more, it's not surprising. with Jean, it was supposed to be a new era. the New Supremes. a group that was once again joined together to focus on a shared purpose. obviously that's a lovely and dreamy concept but not necessarily one of reality. it's still a business and cranking out music that would sell was the ultimate goal.

[antceleb12]

i don't know that anyone exactly is stating a problem with the A's. i do think it does make some difference, at least to avid fans. part of it is just the fact we want to know everything about everything when it comes to the Sups. but another factor is that, as strong fans of the group and the girls, we have an attachment to them. these aren't just songs recorded by some random girls. when you look at a major project like Sing Rodgers & Hart or Floy Joy, there's an artistic effort going on that fans also relate to. we care about the girls and, at least for myself, hope that there was some level of artistic involvement in the project. i know their lps were mostly handled by producers of some sort. but MJC have said that they still worked with Frank on listened to his concept, understood what he was trying to communicate via 10 or so tracks. like the Touch lp. and you get to an intresting track like Touch and there's so many things going on, vocally. it's a great credit to their artistry. but then to have it come out that it's not all DMC or MJC or whomever, it's can burst the bubble a bit. this isn't to say that we'll suddenly stop listening to Sups music. but for some of us fans it does make a difference.

1 more thing

also i think part of why it's a bit of an issue with the Jean years is that the DRATS period was so clearly all focused on Diana, that while it's unfortunate that C and M weren't featured more, it's not surprising. with Jean, it was supposed to be a new era. the New Supremes. a group that was once again joined together to focus on a shared purpose. obviously that's a lovely and dreamy concept but not necessarily one of reality. it's still a business and cranking out music that would sell was the ultimate goal.

Nailed it.

Supremester, why does it matter to you if it matters to other people? Isn't that what a forum is for? I know I have a great interest as to who is on the record because I love piecing together the bit of history. It's also important when for years you think it's one set of people on the record, and it turns out it wasn't that simple. Some of us just want to know who the other voices were and how the whole process works. Third, as sup_fan mentioned, it's even more interesting to investigate the recording history and production of the seventies Supremes when the sixties Supremes have garnered so much attention. Also, as a musician myself, I like learning about why Mary & Cindy with the Andantes in the seventies sounds different to me than Mary & Cindy with the Andantes in the sixties, with the different recording and mixing methods. If it doesn't interest you, you don't have to chime in!

[supremester]

Thank you. I remember learning that The A's were used and it explained a lot as far as sound goes. As a Ross nut of the highest order, I guess I don't have that connection to the purest form of the group - I'm all about the sound and don't care who or what it takes to get it - but then again, if they used Marlene Barrow instead of Miss ross on Love Child - I'd probably feel as you guys do. I think Mary & Cindy's blend wasn't conducive to Top 40 and needed help - which is no slam to their talent - Mary's voice was a fantastic ingredient. Every time I play Up The Ladder, I'm knocked out by the vocal sound - I wouldn't change it for anything.

Also, I detect a difference in Clydie King on Nathan seems OK, but The A's are not ass OK....am I reading this correctly?

[supremester]

Antceleb, like you, I'm very interested in the crafting of the music I've loved for decades as I have stated many many times on here for the exact same reasons you have stated. I just want to understand the vitriol surrounding The A's or others on Supremes records. Who said it doesn't interest me? I'm VERY interested in all facets of the creative process.

[sup_fan]

supremester - i think you bring up great points too. and let's face it Love Child is a kickass song regardless. but i do wish, in that sort of fairytale land, that DMC had worked more cohesively on things, that they had gone with a more "socially aware" lp concept for the whole lp, etc. i think it might translate into more respect for the group today by the industry. i think it's a crime that the girls are sometimes written off as just pop confections. i think their ground breaking Rodgers & Hart lp is just as important as any concept lp that Beach Boys or Aretha did.

as for New Ways and getting back to topic, i think it's a wonderful lp. perhaps a bit overproduced, from today's perspective. Bridge gets pretty weighted down with an enormous orchestra and all the sound effects. i still love it but think a very simple, straight forward approach would have been lovely too

i do like Come Together, although i prefer Di's version. Mirror is ok but i prefer Shine On Me and Thank Him For Today. Is there a Place is nice enough. Na Na should have been cut and replaced with something more topical

[jobeterob]

Well stated sup_fan. Those were good posts.

It is interesting and historical who actually sang on the records but it is not earth shattering nor does the public care. But the fans care.

No one is insulted except for a few demented fans who take it as a slight to Mary Wilson. Interestingly, it is a slight to Mary Wilson but not to Lynda Laurence.

[antceleb12]

Antceleb, like you, I'm very interested in the crafting of the music I've loved for decades as I have stated many many times on here for the exact same reasons you have stated. I just want to understand the vitriol surrounding The A's or others on Supremes records. Who said it doesn't interest me? I'm VERY interested in all facets of the creative process.

I think the big deal to many people is that when they find out that after spending lots of money on all the Supremes records, and finding out later that many of those beloved hits had additional or replacement "Supremes," [[or Vandellas, Four Tops, etc. etc.) - that they were essentially Diana Ross solo records with studio musicians - they feel ripped off. I totally understand it. I felt that way for a while, because it was like, "Oh, you mean the Supremes really didn't have that kind of blend?" It's kind of a let-down for some. Obviously, a lot of people could care less, but to those who felt cheated, it is a big deal.

[smark21]

I think most reasonable Supremes fans don’t have a problem when the Andantes augmented the Supremes on the recordings. But when the Andantes replaced the group members on backgrounds, that’s when trouble starts. For long time who bought/listened to the songs and believed it was the group on those recordings, they have a right to feel deceived, cheated, or ripped off. Likewise when the Andantes replaced the Vandellas, The Marvelettes, and The Velvelettes on the recordings. It was deceptive and fraudulent. It might have yielded a great sound on some of those songs, but anyone with any sort of ethics or moral compass has a right to be ticked off that Motown fooled the public and the artists in the groups were left out of the recording session and denied the opportunity to practice their craft and show their talent.
What makes the use of The Andantes in place of the Supremes especially toxic is the ugly fan wars amongst Supremes fans that are just not as prevalent amongst Marvelettes, Velvelettes and Vandellas fans. Some years ago, some Anti Diana fans made fools of themselves by claiming that the public bought Supremes records because of the background vocals not the leads. And since the revelations that Ross was the only Supreme on some of the Supremes recordings, some rabid Ross fans have used this to claim that the Andantes were used because Mary, Flo and Cindy were untalented and not able to sing. Various factions of Supremes fans love to tear down both the talent and character of group members they don’t like. And Motown’s deceptive and fraudulent use of the Andantes in place of The Supremes on background only fuel the animosity between various factions that one doesn’t see in other fan groups of Motown female vocal groups.

[jobeterob]

I think most reasonable Supremes fans don’t have a problem when the Andantes augmented the Supremes on the recordings. But when the Andantes replaced the group members on backgrounds, that’s when trouble starts. For long time who bought/listened to the songs and believed it was the group on those recordings, they have a right to feel deceived, cheated, or ripped off. Likewise when the Andantes replaced the Vandellas, The Marvelettes, and The Velvelettes on the recordings. It was deceptive and fraudulent. It might have yielded a great sound on some of those songs, but anyone with any sort of ethics or moral compass has a right to be ticked off that Motown fooled the public and the artists in the groups were left out of the recording session and denied the opportunity to practice their craft and show their talent.
What makes the use of The Andantes in place of the Supremes especially toxic is the ugly fan wars amongst Supremes fans that are just not as prevalent amongst Marvelettes, Velvelettes and Vandellas fans. Some years ago, some Anti Diana fans made fools of themselves by claiming that the public bought Supremes records because of the background vocals not the leads. And since the revelations that Ross was the only Supreme on some of the Supremes recordings, some rabid Ross fans have used this to claim that the Andantes were used because Mary, Flo and Cindy were untalented and not able to sing. Various factions of Supremes fans love to tear down both the talent and character of group members they don’t like. And Motown’s deceptive and fraudulent use of the Andantes in place of The Supremes on background only fuel the animosity between various factions that one doesn’t see in other fan groups of Motown female vocal groups.

I kind of preferred the days of 1970 when I thought Mary Wilson was singing the Johnny Bristol parts of Someday We'll Be Together! Well, she had a lower voice and it WAS the Supremes.