The "new" Supremes / Diana Ross [[solo) on Ed Sullivan

[jillfoster]

so sad..trying to re write settled history.. for whom?.. it is what it is.. The Beatles let Ringo sing once in a while too..

No, but you can't seem to grasp that only gay men and drag queens loved Diana Ross. Straight men's dicks didn't get hard for Diana. for Mary, YES. And now your'e doggin Ringo Starr? a man with 7 top 10 hits?

[Roberta75]

No, but you can't seem to grasp that only gay men and drag queens loved Diana Ross. Straight men's dicks didn't get hard for Diana. for Mary, YES. And now your'e doggin Ringo Starr? a man with 7 top 10 hits?

more unsubstantiated crude and vulgar nonsense from the know it all landscaper.

[TheMotownManiac]

Can you grasp your comment is horse shit? Your implied marginalization of gay males is infuriating and enlightening. Lots of straight men found and still find The Supreme Supreme sexy. My guess is that Jill must have had an extraordinary amount of contact with the male heterosexual genitalia to be comfortable to make such a firm, albeit incorrect, statement. All three Supremes had their admirers to suggest otherwise is foolish. Additionally, to what end is this statement being discussed? Is there a qualification as to the sexual orientation of music fans? What about right or left handedness? Suppose it was said, "ONLY" blacks liked Mary? Think it O-O-ver. My guess at the straight/gay mix of the few men at the last Mary show I personally saw: 10/90 in favor of gays. I'd venture to say Mary has enjoyed more support from gay men than straight since she went solo/. I wasn't around at the time, anyone care to chime in? Does it matter??

No, but you can't seem to grasp that only gay men and drag queens loved Diana Ross. Straight men's dicks didn't get hard for Diana. for Mary, YES. And now your'e doggin Ringo Starr? a man with 7 top 10 hits?

[TheMotownManiac]

No female at Motown COULD outshine Diana Ross - never did, never has. Thelma Houston and Gladys Knight can both sing circles around Mary Wilson - one made it, one struggled. Which one got "the push?" Martha Reeves got "the push" at MCA, Arista and Fantasy while The 70's Supremes, with no push, outsold her - despite Martha's legacy of hits. How do you explain this?

Motown was trying to bill Diana as the black Barbra Streisand,Barbra really didn't do tv,a lot of people thought Barbra was such a big star,was the reason she didn't do tv,[[wrong)that was a bad move on Motown,Diana should have been doing lots of tv,she had a lot to prove,she was no longer a SUPREME,part of a group,Motown put the push behind Diana,it didn't matter,at the time The Supremes Mary Cindy and new Supreme Jean Terrell were doing better then Diana,as fare as Diana bein' too big for The Flip Wilson Show,really? lol,now that's TOO FUNNY,i 'll say this again,no female singer at Motown,was gonna out shine Diana,no matter what,Berry Gordy wasn't having it.[[NEVER)Please stay positive

[REDHOT]

LOL,For that matter,Gladys Knight and Thelma Houston could sing circles around Diana Ross too,no female singer at Motown outshine Diana Ross,was all politics,i'll say it again,Berry Gordy was not gonna let any female singer at Motown,outshine Diana,Yes it was all in Berry Gordy's hands.Stop,IN The Name Of Love lol

[Jimi LaLumia]

the music business is part of the entertainment business, NOT the singing business..there are millions at AMERICAN IDOL auditions that can outsing all the folks listed..
it's the 'entertainment' part in which no one can touch Ross, and Gordy knew that.. ever see a film with Gladys 'acting' in it?..please.. for those who think it's just about who outsings who, you're in the WRONG business...maybe sexy Mary should have done some of those sex tapes, cos none of those hard on's she generated ever turned into sales for anything she's done since 1980...just the facts, m'am..

[marv2]

LOL,For that matter,Gladys Knight and Thelma Houston could sing circles around Diana Ross too,no female singer at Motown outshine Diana Ross,was all politics,i'll say it again,Berry Gordy was not gonna let any female singer at Motown,outshine Diana,Yes it was all in Berry Gordy's hands.Stop,IN The Name Of Love lol

Add Jean, Martha, Cal, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye to your list.........

[marv2]

the music business is part of the entertainment business, NOT the singing business..there are millions at AMERICAN IDOL auditions that can outsing all the folks listed..
it's the 'entertainment' part in which no one can touch Ross, and Gordy knew that.. ever see a film with Gladys 'acting' in it?..please.. for those who think it's just about who outsings who, you're in the WRONG business...maybe sexy Mary should have done some of those sex tapes, cos none of those hard on's she generated ever turned into sales for anything she's done since 1980...just the facts, m'am..

She must have been selling something [[her singing talents and performance expertise...) people wanted and paid for, to have become a multi-millionaire.

Gladys was quite good in the TV series "Charlie & Company" with Flip Wilson.

Sex tapes? Not required. She always was the sexy one. Still is.

[jobeterob]

The Temptations and Diana Ross concerts I went to in the last few years were 90% old people, mostly couples; a few noticeably gay people. So? And the Supremes, Diana Ross, Mary Wilson had a somewhat larger gay following. So? Mary Wilson had bigger boobs too. And Diana Ross had more kids. Who's to say which of them had more guys. So?

We can hash over "why" things happened, whether it was Berry Gordy, an un commercial voice, an indistinct voice, Motown, bad management, bad marriages, any kind of substance abuse ~ a few people made it big: Diana Ross, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson. [[Aretha Franklin made it and had almost everything against her). A few of those people had a life you would have to be crazy to want.

Many other people out of Motown or Detroit did not make it as big hitmakers and people well known to the public: Mary Wilson, Scherrie Payne, Susaye Greene, Lynda Laurence, Jean Terrell, Liz Lands, and a myriad of Pips, Temptations, Miracles, Tops, Contours and Commodores. Many of them did OK and carved out a fine musical career and many of them live well because they saved and took care with their finances and taxes. Good for them. They did a great job. And some didn't fare so well.

And you can't change what happened, no matter what caused it.

You can be mad. That Mirage guy is mad. Marv is mad. And there are others. They make miserable ugly Youtube comments like Marv.

Life deals a hand that can be a bitch at times. You either roll with it or you don't.

[Roberta75]

LOL,For that matter,Gladys Knight and Thelma Houston could sing circles around Diana Ross too,no female singer at Motown outshine Diana Ross,was all politics,i'll say it again,Berry Gordy was not gonna let any female singer at Motown,outshine Diana,Yes it was all in Berry Gordy's hands.Stop,IN The Name Of Love lol

You don't like mr Gordy much do you REDHOT lol. all the pushing and politics in the world wont make a star unless the star has talent and drive and charisma and a hunger for stardom. Diane Ross had all of those thing.

Roberta

[marv2]

You don't like mr Gordy much do you REDHOT lol. all the pushing and politics in the world wont make a star unless the star has talent and drive and charisma and a hunger for stardom. Diane Ross had all of those thing.

Roberta

Evidently, sleeping with the Boss helps! The point is that there were many, many other women and men at Motown that had as much or more talent than Diana Ross. They all had certain levels of drive or they would not have been there to begin with under contract. Diane decided she needed an edge over the others so she began sleeping with Berry. That is why he saw her as "special" when no one else in Detroit did! LOL!

[Roberta75]

Evidently, sleeping with the Boss helps! The point is that there were many, many other women and men at Motown that has as much or more talent than Diana Ross. They all had certain levels of drive or they would not have been there to begin with under contract. Diane decided she needed an edge over the others so she began sleeping with Berry. That is why he saw her as "special" when no one else in Detroit did! LOL!

Nobody in the entire city of Detroit thought Diane was special? You ask everyone whoa live there? Did you ever try to sleep with mr Gordy to make you special?

[marv2]

Nobody in the entire city of Detroit thought Diane was special? You ask everyone whoa live there? Did you ever tray to sleep with mr Gordy to make you special?

Although it is immoral, sleeping with the boss can get you promoted! Stay on the moral high ground chirren and you will go further in the long run........

[skooldem1]

[Roberta75]

Although it is immoral, sleeping with the boss can get you promoted! Stay on the moral high ground chirren and you will go further in the long run........

Its also immoral to bully people and hurl hurtful homophobic slurs Imo but
that dont seem to stop you. Take the high road and youll have a more peaceful journey along life highway.

[luke]

Glady Knight got some rave reviews for Pipe Dreams. Sister Mary Superiority telling someone shes a know it all!! Now THAT'S precious!!lolol

[marv2]

Its also immoral to bully people and hurl hurtful homophobic slurs Imo but
that dont seem to stop you. Take the high road and youll have a more peaceful journey along life highway.

and it is an abomination that you mock God, Religion and Martha Reeves, but continue .There will be a place for you............and you will experience no peace, this I know!

[Roberta75]

and it is an abomination that you mock God, Religion and Martha Reeves, but continue .There will be a place for you............and you will experience no peace, this I know!

I don't mock God or religion or miss Martha reeves. I take all 3 real serious and with love and respect. What you write on YouTube is the real abomination but keep it up and one of these days some nice homosexual gentleman will cut you like a bitch. Cowards And bully are only brave behind a computer screen. I have peace and contenttment that you will never know honey.

[Jimi LaLumia]

sleeping with Berry Gordy makes you an instant worldwide superstar!!..I'm sure that Barbara Randolph, Chris Clark and so many others will be glad to hear that!...LMFAO!!

[smark21]

Getting back to the discussion at the end of page 1, most tv performances of a musical group tend to favor the lead vocalist with the close ups while the other members are featured in group shots and maybe a close up or two, if there are enough cameras. This was not a phenomena limited to singling out Diana Ross. As this clip shows in which Jean Terrell gets the most close ups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ssN5gr1WI

[supremester]

Motown politics does not dictate public taste in pop music or 50 years later. Diana Ross left Motown 32 years ago but she still outshines them all - with Berry Gordy nowhere to be seen. CERTAINLY he gave her every effort to succeed, but similar efforts went into JMC, Gladys and Martha to a lesser degree. Any Motown scholar can look at popularity of product and do the math. I'll say it again: JMC had hit singles, nonstop touring and massive TV exposure and still couldn't make it. If you believe behind all of that Motown was trying to sabotage them or keep Ross ahead of them, I've got a bridge to sell you. I doubt VERY much he gave that a second thot - except maybe to keep both acts on their toes. We disagree, in a very positive manner.

LOL,For that matter,Gladys Knight and Thelma Houston could sing circles around Diana Ross too,no female singer at Motown outshine Diana Ross,was all politics,i'll say it again,Berry Gordy was not gonna let any female singer at Motown,outshine Diana,Yes it was all in Berry Gordy's hands.Stop,IN The Name Of Love lol

[supremester]

We agree again, Marv - you're right: Thelma and Gladys can sing circles around these fine talents as well!

Add Jean, Martha, Cal, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye to your list.........

[supremester]

This was Detroit 2 months ago. 3rd show in as many nights - she seemed a bit tired but only compared to the previous nights. The audience was digging her as you can see. The age breakdown was about 60% old [[like me front row center, seat 1 - there were mummies behind us, people in their 20's across and next to us on the left. Lots of peeps in their 30's & 40's. Mostly heterosexual - I asked every single one and demanded proof from those I suspected of being untruthful.

[REDHOT]

No Roberta,i don't dislike Berry Gordy,Mr.Gordy is the MASTER,at bull shittin' the public,and we all fall for it,to me,Berry Gordy was the KING of the music world,back in the day,no matter what i say,it's the TRUTH,I went to New York to see his play,MOTOWN THE MUSICAL,and LOVED IT,You started it TheMotownManiac,i'm sure you wanted a reaction,and i fall for it,but again,i told the truth,Jimi Lalumia i know just because,someone can out sing you,means nothing,it's who behind you,and Berry Gordy made sure everyone at Motown,was behind Diana,there's nothing wrong with that,Diana was the one he wanted,Had he[[Berry Gordy)gave Gladys Thelma Martha or even Mary the push,things would have been different,again at Motown,it was all politics,let's keep it real,sleepin' with the boss,can help lol,thanks Skooldem for postin' Diana in detroit 2013,i enjoyed it,Please stay positive

[Roberta75]

No Roberta,i don't dislike Berry Gordy,Mr.Gordy is the MASTER,at bull shittin' the public,and we all fall for it,to me,Berry Gordy was the KING of the music world,back in the day,no matter what i say,it's the TRUTH,I went to New York to see his play,MOTOWN THE MUSICAL,and LOVED IT,You started it TheMotownManiac,i'm sure you wanted a reaction,and i fall for it,but again,i told the truth,Jimi Lalumia i know just because,someone can out sing you,means nothing,it's who behind you,and Berry Gordy made sure everyone at Motown,was behind Diana,there's nothing wrong with that,Diana was the one he wanted,Had he[[Berry Gordy)gave Gladys Thelma Martha or even Mary the push,things would have been different,again at Motown,it was all politics,let's keep it real,sleepin' with the boss,can help lol,thanks Skooldem for postin' Diana in detroit 2013,i enjoyed it,Please stay positive

You just seem a tad angry with Mr Gordy my darling and seem real upset about stuff that happened almost 50 years ago. Please Stay Positive.

Fondly.

Roberta

[REDHOT]

LOL Atcha Roberta,it's the truth,Angry?NEVER,almost everything anyone post here,is from back in the day,30 or 50years,what ever lol,it's all FUN to me,i don't know anyone here,Please stay positive

[jillfoster]

Can you grasp your comment is horse shit? Your implied marginalization of gay males is infuriating and enlightening. Lots of straight men found and still find The Supreme Supreme sexy. My guess is that Jill must have had an extraordinary amount of contact with the male heterosexual genitalia to be comfortable to make such a firm, albeit incorrect, statement. All three Supremes had their admirers to suggest otherwise is foolish. Additionally, to what end is this statement being discussed? Is there a qualification as to the sexual orientation of music fans? What about right or left handedness? Suppose it was said, "ONLY" blacks liked Mary? Think it O-O-ver. My guess at the straight/gay mix of the few men at the last Mary show I personally saw: 10/90 in favor of gays. I'd venture to say Mary has enjoyed more support from gay men than straight since she went solo/. I wasn't around at the time, anyone care to chime in? Does it matter??

I can say what I want about gay men, cause I AM ONE!

[Roberta75]

LOL Atcha Roberta,it's the truth,Angry?NEVER,almost everything anyone post here,is from back in the day,30 or 50years,what ever lol,it all FUN to me,Please stay positive

lol I will my dear Redhot. I will stay positive.

Yours, with every good wish.

Roberta

[jillfoster]

JMC had hit singles, nonstop touring and massive TV exposure and still couldn't make it. .

7 top 40 hits IS "making it" ask any struggling group out there if they would turn that down. I've always been of the opinion that Mary was spoiled by the sucess of her, Diana and Flo, and fell into that trap of feeling like she was a failure unless she kept "topping" herself. It's like Warner did with Madonna, telling her that her album "Erotica" was a failure after selling 2 1/2 million copies.

[rrussi]

I remember on the Merv Griffin appearance of Diana he announced it was unusual for her to be doing a show like this. They were trying to make her a superstar like Elvis, Barbra Streisand, etc. But I think after awhile, and a few records that didn't hit so well, they decided she needed to be seen more on TV.

[Jimi LaLumia]

ummm... just for the record, she IS a superstar like Elvis, Barbra Streisand, etc..

and she had more #1 pop charts hits than Streisand [[and that's just Ross solo, not counting The Supremes...lol..).. the solo Ross never did overkill TV appearances in the 70's, at any point..

[jobeterob]

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes had no Supremes on them?

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes had a Supreme or two on them but they were so blurred in with Andantes that you can't tell one from the other?

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross & the Supremes have the background so muted that it is irrelevant?

[Jimi LaLumia]

well, technically, until 1967, in her own words, Miss Ross herself was one of the three Supremes... right IS right, after all..

[milven]

well, technically, until 1967, in her own words, Miss Ross herself was one of the three Supremes... right IS right, after all..

If they changed the name of the group to Diana Ross and The Supremes, then wasn't Diana still a member of the group now called Diana Ross and the Supremes and still a Supreme till 1969?

For a brief moment in 1967, the name of the act was officially changed to "The Supremes with Diana Ross" before changing again to "Diana Ross & the Supremes" .

I did not like the name change. If there had to be a change in order to recognize Diana Ross, I think "THE SUPREMES featuring Diana Ross" would have been the better choice.

[floyjoy678]

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes had no Supremes on them?

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes had a Supreme or two on them but they were so blurred in with Andantes that you can't tell one from the other?

How many #1 records in the name Supremes or Diana Ross & the Supremes have the background so muted that it is irrelevant?

LOL you act as if Mary and Florence are only on a couple of the number ones and the rest are all the Andantes hahaha. The Andantes are only on 3 of the 12 and one of them is WITH Mary and Florence.

[jobeterob]

LOL you act as if Mary and Florence are only on a couple of the number ones and the rest are all the Andantes hahaha. The Andantes are only on 3 of the 12 and one of them is WITH Mary and Florence.

You Cant Hurry Love, Stop in the Name of Love [[single), Someday We'll Be Together, Love Child.

Where they didn't matter, can't be heard: My World Is Empty Without You

Where they mattered and are there: Nothing But Heartaches, You Keep Me Hangin On, Come See About Me, Back in My Arms Again

Where they are there but it could have been anyone: Reflections, Where Did Our Love Go, Baby Love, Love is Here and Now You're Gone, The Happening, Love is Like an Itching in my Heart, In and Out of Love

[Jimi LaLumia]

by later 67,many tv hosts and top 40 radio djs were announcing 'Diana Ross and HER Supremes', signifying that they were her backup singers ,happened frequently, a la Martha and HER Vandellas which I recall hearing frequently or Gladys Knight and HER Pips..

[marybrewster]

Sweet Jesus, what a pissing match this is.

Here, listen to the first 10 seconds of this.

[milven]

Diana says, "By the way folks, we're the Supremes". So, as I said in the post above, Diana is a Supreme in the group Diana Ross and the Supremes. But I think the name is redundant. Kinda like saying " A Supreme and the other Supremes"

Never liked the new billing. THE SUPREMES featuring Diana Ross would have been better IMO

[jobeterob]

In retrospect, it might have been better for her to go in 1967; no name change; just leave after the most recent 4 #1 records.

But it doesn't matter anyway, it is all said and done as it happened.

[floyjoy678]

I wouldn't say the background vocals were not important on Where did Our Love go and Baby Love, I've heard several people over the years sing along to Mary and Florence's "Don't throw our love away". There was an MTV game show on years ago and I remember some metal head had to hum baby love and he hummed both the lead and the background parts. It's never been officially confirmed that Mary and Florence aren't on
"Stop In the name of love" it's just been said that the song was re-recorded WITH the Andantes, nowhere was it said "Without Mary and Florence" plus Louvaine said Florence is on the song with them. And Diana still considered herself a Supreme after 1967, if she didn't should would have said "By the way folks I'm Diana Ross and these are the Supremes". Even after she went solo she would always say "I was aSupreme!" and you could hear the pride in her voice when she said it too. Now who knows about "You Can't Hurry Love", that's another one that was never officially confirmed on who is singing it. All I know I'm glad they got rid of that break in the unedited version because all I hear is Mary singing higher than she should have been and ruins it.

[bradsupremes]

It's confirmed "You Can't Hurry Love" is Mary and Marlene Barrow.

[jobeterob]

The real issue for some is that Berry didn't let Mary sing at all and she only woke up to reality in 2000 and got that she had only gotten $100000 when the real Supremes ended in 1970 and that she, too, had to look after herself.

Diana got it 1982 when she walked for the $20 million. Mary got it in 2000 with RTL; it's just that the results weren't the same.

[jobeterob]

It's confirmed about Stop in the Name of Love too if you accept the words written in the booklet by the Universal guys.

But, hey, I know not everyone likes those apples.

I do agree, Floyjoy, the backgrounds to Where Did Our Love Go and Baby Love are integral parts of those songs. I'm not so sure that the particular voices matter much.

But what did matter is that there was a group called the Supremes, DR and the Supremes, or DR with the Supremes or whatever and they did make an impact as 3 strong young black women and they did open doors and affect many lives.