The Release That Wasn't: The Supremes/MOTHER DEAR - The Red Skelton Show, 1965

[Methuselah2]

The slinky, sexy Supremes. Easily one of my favorite Supremes' TV performances. I distinctly remember the night--and the surprise of MOTHER DEAR from their MORE HITS album--when it aired on CBS.

Thank you to Supremes59 for this YouTube posting. I never tire of seeing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrNUZpwxjw

Several alternate versions have surfaced on this one over the years. Thank you to MotownConnoisseur30 for this posting of Version 2--accompanied by a beautiful video of one great photo after another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra5PBQpS67s

[nathanj06]

A perfect Supremes song. HDH out did themselves with "More Hits". This song stood out so much it's too bad it was overlooked as a single...but almost. I never get tired of hearing it and included it on my Greatest Hits comp. I wish there was a better quality video of this. I'm glad to just have this one though.

[Methuselah2]

I completely agree, Nathan. MORE HITS is such a stellar production. HDH in top form. And each track got the full treatment. For me, it's The Supremes' best album. With MOTHER DEAR a top-notch cut, it had A-side written all over it. But, alas, they weren't willing to risk it once NOTHING BUT HEARTACHES didn't perform as well as expected. But that one, too, is another favorite of mine.

[smark21]

I think Mother Dear is an awful song. Catchy, but awful.

[ejluther]

I think it's interesting that they revisited the motherly advice angle with "You Can't Hurry Love"...

[Methuselah2]

I wonder why it wasn't used on another artist at some point. I can think of several that it could have worked very well with. By mid-1966, enough time would have already passed for someone else to release it on without concern of a Supremes connection.

[BayouMotownMan]

I love this appearance too. Diana was more involved with the choreography and they were just damn sexy the way the swiveled those hips. Mother Dear was planned as a single twice and canceled both times.

[antceleb12]

It's a very catchy song, but I don't think it had potential beyond a B-side. It's neat, though, that they went through the work of recording multiple versions, but never went anywhere with it - kind of like "Buttered popcorn," "[[You're Gonna) Come to Me," etc.

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

Mother Dear is a good song but, it doesn't grab me something is missing
The alternative version on The Supremes Box Set is way better!

I'm curious if Honey Boy would've been a big hit? I hear single potential.

[BayouMotownMan]

Mother Dear may have gotten Motown into legal problems with the Beach Boys. The "Help, Help me mother dear" was an obvious copy of the hook from Help Me Rhonda. [["Help me Rhonda, help help me Rhonda."). I agree that it probably would have done worse than Nothing But Heartaches, which to me is still my fav off of More Hits.

Ask Any Girl I still say could have been a big hit. Otherwise, the oft-overlooked "[[I'm So Glad) Heartaches Don't Last Always, while not single potential, is a gorgeous Supremes production. Ross gives a sleepy rendition until the final chorus where she asserts her indepence [[How happy I am to be over you at last now).

I think Surfer Boy, omitted from that album, could also have been a hit single. It was simple and funky with full backing vocals from Mary and FLo and a great Diana lead

[supremester]

I adore More Hits - it was the ideal follow up album to WDOLG and the first all HDH LP. I was shocked when I learned Mother Dear was considered for single release. I don't think the subject matter is conducive to boys buying the record, lyrically, it's pushing it [[bad/sad, go/so.....) It has a great intro, trademark HDH snap with 2 builds, but still the bg sounds yelpy and Ross' vocal is buried too much in the last verse. I love it on the album - it's a killer LP cut, I think Nothing But Heartaches was, by far, the correct choice. If HDH had nothing new, I'd have chosen a gussied up Honey Boy or Whisper You Love Me Boy - I think both had top ten potential, but needed much fuller background arrangements. I love the sound of Mary & Flo on Honey Boy - Flo singing under Miss Ross on the chorus is so yummy. I don't hear them at all on Whisper and suspect it's The Andantes and on this track, I'd love to "hear" Mary & Flo with The A's fleshing them out if needed. Plus there's that "iify" note in the first verse that Miss Ross needs to fix.

[supremester]

I've often wondered about the viability of Ask Any Girl as a single. I loved that track since the first day I played it. It's seamless with no water whatsoever - a brilliant pop production. Still, I don't know if the intro would help or hurt and, since there were over 5 million copies of the song already in the marketplace by Sept '65, how many potential Supremes fans would not have it already? With help, it may have gone easy listening as well - but it would have needed major push to get a black pop group on those Ray Coniff loving charts. This is such a fun forum - reading the varied opinions. I can't hear Surfer Boy as a single, but you're not the first to suggest it. Imagine if everyone here was in the Friday QC meetings ; )

Mother Dear may have gotten Motown into legal problems with the Beach Boys. The "Help, Help me mother dear" was an obvious copy of the hook from Help Me Rhonda. [["Help me Rhonda, help help me Rhonda."). I agree that it probably would have done worse than Nothing But Heartaches, which to me is still my fav off of More Hits.

Ask Any Girl I still say could have been a big hit. Otherwise, the oft-overlooked "[[I'm So Glad) Heartaches Don't Last Always, while not single potential, is a gorgeous Supremes production. Ross gives a sleepy rendition until the final chorus where she asserts her indepence [[How happy I am to be over you at last now).

I think Surfer Boy, omitted from that album, could also have been a hit single. It was simple and funky with full backing vocals from Mary and FLo and a great Diana lead

[ejluther]

I love the alternate universe where "Surfer Boy" was a single and a hit! I used to not like it much but a friend got me to reconsider it and he was right; it's pretty damn charming!

Mother Dear may have gotten Motown into legal problems with the Beach Boys. The "Help, Help me mother dear" was an obvious copy of the hook from Help Me Rhonda. [["Help me Rhonda, help help me Rhonda.").

I never thought of that before - but the melody of each is not identical, is it? Could the BB claim ownership of the words "Help help me"? The reasoning behind such cases always seems hard to pin down to me...

[smark21]

I think You Can’t Hurry Love is a sequel to Mother Dear, but unlike most sequels, far superior. The girl in Mother Dear is a pathetic and helpless victim. The lyrics to You Can’t Hurry Love are melodramatic in the verses, but the chorus is grounded in good common sense suggesting a dialogue between the mother and the daughter.

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

The song does sound dated compared to their other releases.

I think You Can’t Hurry Love is a sequel to Mother Dear, but unlike most sequels, far superior. The girl in Mother Dear is a pathetic and helpless victim. The lyrics to You Can’t Hurry Love are melodramatic in the verses, but the chorus is grounded in good common sense suggesting a dialogue between the mother and the daughter.

[bradsupremes]

I think You Can’t Hurry Love is a sequel to Mother Dear, but unlike most sequels, far superior. The girl in Mother Dear is a pathetic and helpless victim. The lyrics to You Can’t Hurry Love are melodramatic in the verses, but the chorus is grounded in good common sense suggesting a dialogue between the mother and the daughter.

I always thought the Vandellas' "I'm Ready For Love" was a sequel to "You Can't Hurry Love." It's a shame HDH didn't cut a version on the Supremes.

[LuvHangOva]

I think the Skelton clip is darling. The choreography is some of the smoothest and most elegant I recall my girls doing. Im not in the habit of second guessing what should or should not have been released. As a 9 or 10 yr old kid I REALLY didn't care.
i liked it and Honey Boy then as much as I do now.

[Methuselah2]

LHO - 'Smooth' and 'elegant' absolutely nail it. And I've always felt this great routine really could have put this one on top. It seemed like one of those performances--like STOP! on Hollywood Palace, BACK IN MY ARMS AGAIN on Hullabaloo, and YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE on The Ed Sullivan Show--when the song itself becomes very closely identified with the TV performance. MOTHER DEAR, at first blush, seems like a fairly straight-forward routine but there's so much going on in it that it's fairly complex. Diana, Mary, & Flo are so in synch with their steps, and their timing seems spot-on. And I don't think they were ever this sexy on TV together, before or after. For once, they are all the main focus of a routine--Flo & Mary: smooth, hypnotic, and oh-so-cool, while Diana is like a beautiful cobra itchin' & twitchin' as she slithers through the dance and begins to coil up. Personally, I can't hear MOTHER DEAR without visualizing this performance. I may well be in a minority of one on that aspect but I think song & dance together were always crucial to The Supremes' popularity, just as their personalities and beauty were.

By the same token, unfortunately, I think something like the dance routine to LOVE IS LIKE AN ITCHING IN MY HEART as performed on The Ed Sullivan Show only served to thwart sales of that stellar recording. There was almost no routine for that one, and what was there didn't play, didn't work, didn't sell.

[BigAl]

I'm curious if Honey Boy would've been a big hit? I hear single potential.

"Honey Boy" was test-played, at least where I was living at the time [[Virginia). I heard it twice on a local station. I never heard "Mother Dear" played although there are many who did. Thus, I'm wondering if perhaps they backed each other on a test-marketed single. In any case, after hearing it twice on the radio I never heard it there again. Mary Wells' version was much better.

[johnjeb]

I always thought the Vandellas' "I'm Ready For Love" was a sequel to "You Can't Hurry Love." It's a shame HDH didn't cut a version on the Supremes.

At the time they were released I thought "I'm Ready For Love" and The Temptations' "All I Need" were too similar to "You Can't Hurry Love". I thought they were just OK. Now I really like them quite a bit.

I did get Martha's Watchout album with Ready For Love as soon as it was released and it is my favorite Motown album - second to Where Did Our Love Go LP.

[johnjeb]

Mother Dear is my favorite from More Hits. It could have been a single in mid-1965 but I don't think it would have fared well after that time. I also don't think it would have done as well as Nothing But Heartaches. However, I rarely skip over Mother Dear when I play More Hits but on many occasions I will skip Heartaches.

The performances of this song on the Skelton and Martin shows were nice but not exciting and I can see why it didn't generate any buzz to have it released. Likewise, when More Hits was released our local station played many of the cuts and I don't think there was any buzz that any LP cuts should be released as singles.

I love the look of The Supremes on both of these shows. One of my favorite pictures is from the Skelton show doing Mother Dear.

[captainjames]

Nothing But Heartaches was always a favorite to me. Mother Dear was missing the hook that You Can't Hurry Love had with the drums. I always said replace the horns in Mother Dear with drums and bass and you had a hit.

[dba]

Hands down a personal fav and I love the performance.
The mistake was them not doing Nothing but heartaches on the Ed Sullivan show when it was released instead of this song. They did Your Nobody Till Somebody. Just saying . . .

[supremester]

Honey Boy ..........ahhhhhhhhh Honey Boy......just the way she says it.........I feel the same way about it. I wasn't second guessing them until the Reflections album came out. I love the sound of Flo and Miss Ross together so much.......one of my besties commanded the TV in '65 to watch the Skelton appearance and his entire family roared with laughter at the dance - he hasn't lived it down since. Personally, I think it's adorable. I played More Hits last night - I love that album, and really never realized how much Andantes there is on there. I now understand why some don't or won't accept The Andantes legit credits - it pains me that Flo & Mary are not on Whisper You Love Me Boy.........crazy eh?

I think the Skelton clip is darling. The choreography is some of the smoothest and most elegant I recall my girls doing. Im not in the habit of second guessing what should or should not have been released. As a 9 or 10 yr old kid I REALLY didn't care.
i liked it and Honey Boy then as much as I do now.

[supremester]

I agree about the lyric, but, like she is so adept at, makes the lyric speak to the listener so plaintively and directly, that you don't even notice that she gets three syllables out of a one syllable word. It's the perfect pop record - I think probably Motown's overall best record ever. And it was HUGE - HDH wasted no time shamelessly borrowing from it for I'm Ready For Love - ditto Frank Wilson for All I Need. YCHL was their biggest record since Baby Love, but it stunk live. They simply could not recreate the feeling live and it was in and out of the act in a year. Out for good in two years. She makes it work beautifully today, though.

I think You Can’t Hurry Love is a sequel to Mother Dear, but unlike most sequels, far superior. The girl in Mother Dear is a pathetic and helpless victim. The lyrics to You Can’t Hurry Love are melodramatic in the verses, but the chorus is grounded in good common sense suggesting a dialogue between the mother and the daughter.

[jobeterob]

I once raised the fact that the Supremes could not duplicate the sound of You Can't Hurry Love live; one of the Universal people said that was because the background singers were not the same and not to ask a lot more questions or I might hear answers I didn't like. Which meant the Andantes are on a lot more songs than we knew.

You also mention liking the pairing of the Ross/Ballard voices; I completely agree; those songs were the best of the Supremes moments. That is one of the reasons Wilson was overlooked; the other two voices were the standouts and mixed/blended so well together.

The sound that I thought was the Supremes was often the sound of Diana Ross and the Andantes and I am listening to most of the Supremes songs with a different realization of who might be there.

[supremester]

Their routines didn't do much for me but I liked them - except, Love Is Like An Itching....... what a horrible presentation of that song! The gowns were wrong and that "shooing the chintzes away" move???? WTF was THAT? Mother Dear is stronger when I play it than when I think about it. I still think Heartaches was the correct choice and doing it on Sullivan would have helped. This would be the last appearance where they only sang one song!

LHO - 'Smooth' and 'elegant' absolutely nail it. And I've always felt this great routine really could have put this one on top. It seemed like one of those performances--like STOP! on Hollywood Palace, BACK IN MY ARMS AGAIN on Hullabaloo, and YOU CAN'T HURRY LOVE on The Ed Sullivan Show--when the song itself becomes very closely identified with the TV performance. MOTHER DEAR, at first blush, seems like a fairly straight-forward routine but there's so much going on in it that it's fairly complex. Diana, Mary, & Flo are so in synch with their steps, and their timing seems spot-on. And I don't think they were ever this sexy on TV together, before or after. For once, they are all the main focus of a routine--Flo & Mary: smooth, hypnotic, and oh-so-cool, while Diana is like a beautiful cobra itchin' & twitchin' as she slithers through the dance and begins to coil up. Personally, I can't hear MOTHER DEAR without visualizing this performance. I may well be in a minority of one on that aspect but I think song & dance together were always crucial to The Supremes' popularity, just as their personalities and beauty were.

By the same token, unfortunately, I think something like the dance routine to LOVE IS LIKE AN ITCHING IN MY HEART as performed on The Ed Sullivan Show only served to thwart sales of that stellar recording. There was almost no routine for that one, and what was there didn't play, didn't work, didn't sell.

[roger]

I always thought the Vandellas' "I'm Ready For Love" was a sequel to "You Can't Hurry Love." It's a shame HDH didn't cut a version on the Supremes.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that with "You Can't Hurry Love" HDH were carrying on the musical theme of "Take Me In Your Arms" that they had recorded on KIM WESTON the previous year ...

Roger

[antceleb12]

What I love about "Mother Dear" is that Mary and Flo's voices were put to great use. Like "Going Down," they use their higher registers, which I wish was incorporated into more of their songs. I think it's one of their most intricate background parts. And I agree with LHO and Methuselah about the choreography. It's one of their cleanest, sharpest routines, in my opinion. The background is terribly drab, though!

[smark21]

I once raised the fact that the Supremes could not duplicate the sound of You Can't Hurry Love live; one of the Universal people said that was because the background singers were not the same and not to ask a lot more questions or I might hear answers I didn't like. Which meant the Andantes are on a lot more songs than we knew.

You also mention liking the pairing of the Ross/Ballard voices; I completely agree; those songs were the best of the Supremes moments. That is one of the reasons Wilson was overlooked; the other two voices were the standouts and mixed/blended so well together.

The sound that I thought was the Supremes was often the sound of Diana Ross and the Andantes and I am listening to most of the Supremes songs with a different realization of who might be there.

IT’s not because of the voices that You Can’t Hurry Love never worked well in the live shows. IT’s because the playing of the Funk Bros. on the record and the production and recording of the record are so outstanding that it’s hard for the song to be as strong live, especially when the Supremes performed with a Vegas type big band behind them or with pick up players. Jobetrob, you really need to give your ear an education and listen to more than just vocals. Listen to the music and the arrangements and what’s going on behind the voices. Try your best to just out the voices for awhile. It will change how you hear a recording from thereonout if you’re serious in this endeavor.

[smark21]

But when it comes to voices, I prefer the Ross/Wilson vocal blend and/or contrast, because they have different sounds that work well together. Flo is often too loud and shrill for me [[though she had some fine moments such as Come See About Me). I think she’s way overrated as a singer and that the group sound in their live shows improved once Flo was fired because Cindy blended with Mary and their sound provided a nice contrast to Diana’s.

[floyjoy678]

But when it comes to voices, I prefer the Ross/Wilson vocal blend and/or contrast, because they have different sounds that work well together. Flo is often too loud and shrill for me [[though she had some fine moments such as Come See About Me). I think she’s way overrated as a singer and that the group sound in their live shows improved once Flo was fired because Cindy blended with Mary and their sound provided a nice contrast to Diana’s.

See I feel quite the opposite I like the Diana/Flo blend better, they both had similar distinct voices. I think if Flo had better training with her voice it would have been almost as good as Diana's. I really don't like Mary's voice on those 60's recordings, very bland in my opinion and nothing special about it and some songs where I hear her in the back screeching to hit a certain note and ruins the background, it makes me cringe. That being said I feel she made a MAJOR improvement with her voice in the 70's.

[bradsupremes]

I was never crazy about the live versions of "You Can't Hurry Love." Something was definitely missing when performed live. Mary and Flo's blend on the song just didn't match Mary and Marlene's blend on the record. In fact, Mary and Marlene had probably the best blend. Their voices truly fit together in creating a balance and smooth background vocals. It's no wonder Motown used Marlene as Flo's onstage replacement in 1966 and early 1967 and considered her as first choice to replace Flo.

[skooldem1]

The only thing that was wrong in most performances of "You can't hurry love" was the fact that it was sung at a much faster tempo than the original recording. Diana could barely keep up. It most cases, the band and the background vocals were fine. The best was on the Ed Sullivan show. The worst was probably the Copa 67 concert.

[antceleb12]

See, I like the Copa performance, but I do not like the Roostertail performance. Mary & Flo's blend was bad, and it was way too fast. Flo was on the Italian recording, and Mary and Flo sound good together on that one.

With Mary and Cindy, Mary was the only one you could hear most of the time, and that always bothered me. I never really knew what Cindy's voice sounded like until Jean came in the picture. In my opinion, Cindy's voice is much weaker [[although she has a rather nice head voice on "Loving Country") than Flo's. I never thought the group's sound was better than when it was DMF.

[jobeterob]

For me, one of the ultimate female group sounds was epitomized by the DMF Supremes.

After Flo left, the magical mix was gone. And sometimes it now appears the magical mix was the Andantes and Diana Ross.

And after Diana, they were just another girl group. But they had some awesome songs.

TheBoyFromXTown posted all those Syreeta songs and it made me wonder about have that sound in the Supremes. Could maybe have kept some Diana-like sound and changed the style.

[Penny]

For me, one of the ultimate female group sounds was epitomized by the DMF Supremes.

After Flo left, the magical mix was gone. And sometimes it now appears the magical mix was the Andantes and Diana Ross.

And after Diana, they were just another girl group. But they had some awesome songs.

TheBoyFromXTown posted all those Syreeta songs and it made me wonder about have that sound in the Supremes. Could maybe have kept some Diana-like sound and changed the style.

I think Diana and Mary should try doing some twerking in their acts right now. It would really increase their visibility and popularity. I'll bet they would get on television.

Penny

[smark21]

I think Diana and Mary should try doing some twerking in their acts right now. It would really increase their visibility and popularity. I'll bet they would get on television.

Penny

At their age, twerking may be asking too much, but they could shed their clothes and ride a wrecking ball nude during the show.

[supremester]

I agree with Smarkie - DMC live were a much better blend than DMF live. That being said, I enjoy Flo's sound on some records immensely. Mary's rich contralto is essential to many of their greatest sounds and of course WDOLG on record. Live.........eh. I can see why The A's were used so much after Flo left because Cindy's voice was ......light and added little to records - yet, the sound live of DMC was killer. It baffled me at first why Mary would go to such lengths to craft such bold, character assassinating and destructive lies about the use of The A's. I understood her M.O. by 1987 when she got all that pity attention. She's the originator of Diana vs Mary and tearing one Supreme down to build up another- not to mention denigrating and marginalizing the great work of the very underpaid Andantes. Imagine how important it was to her to build that huge group of lies about The A's - never suspecting the truth would come out and expose her as the real knife-in-the-back Supreme willing to do or say anything to feather her nest while getting pity attention for herself and qualifying the success of others. I wonder if she ever lived in The Brewster Projects even. She was the sexy one, though. My boyfriend says Mary was the only truly sexy Supreme in the classic sense of the word. He likes...........'that' also.

[jobeterob]

I agree with Smarkie - DMC live were a much better blend than DMF live. That being said, I enjoy Flo's sound on some records immensely. Mary's rich contralto is essential to many of their greatest sounds and of course WDOLG on record. Live.........eh. I can see why The A's were used so much after Flo left because Cindy's voice was ......light and added little to records - yet, the sound live of DMC was killer. It baffled me at first why Mary would go to such lengths to craft such bold, character assassinating and destructive lies about the use of The A's. I understood her M.O. by 1987 when she got all that pity attention. She's the originator of Diana vs Mary and tearing one Supreme down to build up another- not to mention denigrating and marginalizing the great work of the very underpaid Andantes. Imagine how important it was to her to build that huge group of lies about The A's - never suspecting the truth would come out and expose her as the real knife-in-the-back Supreme willing to do or say anything to feather her nest while getting pity attention for herself and qualifying the success of others. I wonder if she ever lived in The Brewster Projects even. She was the sexy one, though. My boyfriend says Mary was the only truly sexy Supreme in the classic sense of the word. He likes...........'that' also.

What bold and character assassinating lies did Mary construct about the Andantes? Wondering.

[supremester]

That they were only used after Flo left to get the public used to Diane's voice without Mary & Cindy to ease her transition to a solo career and implied that once rid of the yoke of having to work under Diane's rule, The A's were no longer used [[even though they are on the first single and more than half of the first album.) She is therefore taking credit for the work, talent and sound of others on dozens of songs which I think is professionally immoral. It also fits in with her misleading accounts of Motown 25 and RTL. Ever the victim, one wonders exactly what was true.

[jobeterob]

That they were only used after Flo left to get the public used to Diane's voice without Mary & Cindy to ease her transition to a solo career and implied that once rid of the yoke of having to work under Diane's rule, The A's were no longer used [[even though they are on the first single and more than half of the first album.) She is therefore taking credit for the work, talent and sound of others on dozens of songs which I think is professionally immoral. It also fits in with her misleading accounts of Motown 25 and RTL. Ever the victim, one wonders exactly what was true.

Are we talking half of the album Meet the Supremes or half of the album Where Did Our Love Go?

[jobeterob]

[johnjeb]

"Mother Dear" on Red Skelton

[skooldem1]

Are we talking half of the album Meet the Supremes or half of the album Where Did Our Love Go?

The album with "Up the ladder" ?

[jobeterob]

The album with "Up the ladder" ?

Makes sense. Although I think the A's were on some of Meet the Supremes, right.

[antceleb12]

Makes sense. Although I think the A's were on some of Meet the Supremes, right.

Wasn't it Marlene on "Buttered Popcorn?"

[supremester]

Half of Right On.......and on second glance, I really do enjoy the Mother Dear routine......I love Flo's look at the beginning, Mary is cute and Miss Ross is Rossing around........lots of fun

Are we talking half of the album Meet the Supremes or half of the album Where Did Our Love Go?

[rrussi]

I think they didn't issue Mother Dear as a single as that would've been four from the More Hits lp, which already had the three big hits. Doing it twice on TV, however, only helped promote the lp even more, which was a big hit, so maybe a fourth single wouldn't sell so well if everyone had the lp. However, as great as Mother Dear is, the story is a little dated for them by that point. I also agree with Big Al, the Mary Wells' original of Honey Boy is much, much better.

[supremester]

I played Mary's Honey Boy again just now and it doesn't work for me, but I can see how others might like it. I do like her Whisper You Love Me Boy and think it might have hit.