Jean addresses Diana comparisons and Mary praises Lynda

[Jimi LaLumia]

it's called "just SING the SONG!",and yes, Jean did not look comfortable in a group setting, there was none of the natural feeling on stage interplay as there was between the Ross/Wilson /Ballard or Ross/Wilson/Birdsong lineup; you always got the feeling that Jean had just walked into a room of people that she was meeting for the first time, even by mid 1972!..Gordy was probably right about Syretta, in retrospect, like he was was about "The Wiz"..[[another disaster..)

[franjoy56]

1. Soulful doesn't mean "better".
2. If they were liked so much more than DRATS then why didn't sales and general interest back this up?
3. The Supremes were surpassed by the Pointer Sisters, the Emotions, and Labelle. Yes they may have charted more singles but that was based on their fan base as being the premier female group of the 60's. Many were residual hits based on their legacy.
4. The Pointer sisters received a Grammy Award and were featured in a movie [[ Car wash). They were more on the consciousness of the American public than the Supremes.
5. Nothing the Jean Terrell led 70's Supremes recorded was more soulful than "I'm gonna make you love me", "Love Child", and "Someday we'll be together". Diana Ross already paved that road for the Supremes".

Look at the sales # chart ratings on the soul charts and you will find every Jean Terrell led single hit the top 50, not to mention Stoned Love hitting #1.

[rod_rick]

I just read an interview with Eddie Holland. He said HDH created pop records for The Supremes not R and B. Frank Wilson had to get Jean to decrease her gospel and soul flourishes. I actually think Diana fit more into a group setting, at least until 1967, than Jean. To me Jean never looked totally comfortable grouping it.

Keep in mind Jean was signing to a track for Stoned Love which was quite different than the groups live performance of the song. I think it was the long version was 3 different breaks than what she was used to signing every night.

[Jimi LaLumia]

that's why they have something called 'rehearsals'..especially if you're going on national tv.. watching the clip, she's not at all interested in the song, she's just interested in vocal histrionics..

[captainjames]

Well, you made a valid point I have to agree.

that's why they have something called 'rehearsals'..especially if you're going on national tv.. watching the clip, she's not at all interested in the song, she's just interested in vocal histrionics..

[skooldem1]

Regarding the original clip of "Stone Love", I have to agree with those that say it doesn't sound good. Jean is singing it in a way that doesn't sound like the "hit" record at all. Missing is the sweetness that made the record sound so good. The one good thing about the clip is Lynda. She looks so good.

[supremester]

Well, as usual, I agree with Marv - JMC was more soulful. So what? Miss Ross has her detractors, but let's face it: everyone at Motown and in the industry knew taking Diana Ross' place was not gonna be easy. Like her or not, their accomplishments and her subsequent accomplishments indicate it would take a lot to make that group work at the same level. I thought it would happen until I saw JMC and knew it wasn't working - even tho they were great. They needed a star and Jean wasn't one - and it's a shame because she was extremely talented and nice looking. I can see Gordy's idea with her. On paper, she was a better choice than Syreeta, and maybe, when her saw her onstage Jan 14, 1970, it hit him what a mistake it was. Even Mary agrees on this, today. Syreeta might not have worked either. No one can do what Diana Ross does, so another force was needed. I think Jean developed, but it was too late. Sadly, rather than accept reality, Mary blamed the relative failure on Motown making them fail, but now, with all the chart facts, the internet, and Youtube, we know that was just trying to save face. I don't mind Jean's vocal histrionics on this clip, but Live In Japan makes my ears bleed. I'm told those arrangements worked live, but on record, I can see why it wasn't released.

[BayouMotownMan]

As I recall, Supremes Live in Japan was released around the same time as the Temptations and J5 live in Japan lps. None of these were intended for issue here in the US. Besides, within two months of this concert Jean and Lynda were gone.

Personally I loved Jean's variations on the songs. I was at her last engagement with the Supremes at Magic Mt, CA in 1973. I enjoyed several shows and Jean never sang a song exactly the same. This was appealing to me as I listened to the ways she would change her delivery.

[supremester]

I'd love to read that - can you post the link, please?

I just read an interview with Eddie Holland. He said HDH created pop records for The Supremes not R and B. Frank Wilson had to get Jean to decrease her gospel and soul flourishes. I actually think Diana fit more into a group setting, at least until 1967, than Jean. To me Jean never looked totally comfortable grouping it.

[supremester]

Wow - what was the set list? Did it vary? What did they wear? Did you see Flo? Details, please - none too small!

As I recall, Supremes Live in Japan was released around the same time as the Temptations and J5 live in Japan lps. None of these were intended for issue here in the US. Besides, within two months of this concert Jean and Lynda were gone.

Personally I loved Jean's variations on the songs. I was at her last engagement with the Supremes at Magic Mt, CA in 1973. I enjoyed several shows and Jean never sang a song exactly the same. This was appealing to me as I listened to the ways she would change her delivery.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I understand where Bayou is coming from, but the casual/average record buying ticket buyer wasn't going to see The Supremes to hear "Variations On A Theme"..they went to hear the hits!..no wonder ticket sales declined to the point of evaporation.. I love the first three Jean albums, and some of the last ones, but there was no 'Team' in Jean!

[supremester]

I was so disappointed in MC, that getting their new records wasn't like getting the new DR&TS records - that feeling wasn't there after Up The Ladder. I liked the records until Touch, but it was more like getting the new Tempts 45. I say this because I wasn't even expecting anything from them anymore, team or not. I taped them on Ed Sullivan and played that reel a thousand times - loved that medley and still do, but I'm not a good judge of what JMC did for their true fans. I did have the Right On poster on my door, Billboard ads for Up The ladder & Stoned Love on my wall, but eventually, I drifted away. I had no connection to the group at all when I saw the Floy Joy cover - they may as well have been The Honey Cone only with better teeth.

[blueskies]

they may as well have been The Honey Cone only with better teeth. OK....I had my laugh for today. Thanks!

[BayouMotownMan]

Florence appeared at Magic Mountain the following year. The shows at Magic Mt in 1973 were awesome, and the crowds enthusiastic. Surprising to me was the audience knew Bad Weather and many were blowing whistles throughout the song as Mary had done on the recording [[which didn't fit to me at all).

As I recall, the set was:
Stoned Love-opening
Cabaret Medley [[couple of times)
Mary's solo on Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You
70s hits medley
Bad Weather [[a long extended version)
Jean's solo on He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother [[some nights)
I Guess I'll Miss The Man [[some nights)
Tossin' and Turnin'
Love Train/Oh Happy Day

There were no Diana Ross songs in the set at all. Unknown to me was by the time of this appearance [[August 1973), Jean had already told Mary and Motown she was leaving. Backstage all three ladies were very sweet. But while Lynda and Jean mingled, Mary stayed in the dressing room rather quiet and reserved. She looked like a lady with a lot on her mind.

Lynda had very little to do vocally during this set except a lead line on the Cabaret Medley and Tossin' and Turnin'. She did a short run during Oh Happy Day as well.

Mary used to do an impressive vocal turn on Can't Take My Eyes. She would hit a note, hold and move the mike away from her mouth, filling the stadium with her voice alone. This always got thunderous applause. She also used to demonstrate how she used to walk to Sunday School during Oh Happy Day, a rather soulful strut, which also brought the house down.

Jean Terrell was pure vocal. She was in her prime and did very little in the way of choreography or stage patter. When that girl opened her mouth, her vocal was so warm and controlled. I left LA an even bigger Jean fan than when I got there.

Also unknown to the fans was that Lynda was in the early stages of pregnancy. This explains why they only wore a few sets of gowns. Jean was a little heavy then too. They wore the blue ponchos [[Soul Train) the most, then those blue/green glitter numbers from Sullivan [[No Matter What Sign). They also wore the gold pantsuits from Tom Jones [[Stoned Love). One night they wore the pink beaded gowns that Diana wore on TCB doing Somewhere. They were stunning in those and Lynda was not showing. Yet.

[marv2]

1. Soulful doesn't mean "better".
2. If they were liked so much more than DRATS then why didn't sales and general interest back this up?
3. The Supremes were surpassed by the Pointer Sisters, the Emotions, and Labelle. Yes they may have charted more singles but that was based on their fan base as being the premier female group of the 60's. Many were residual hits based on their legacy.
4. The Pointer sisters received a Grammy Award and were featured in a movie [[ Car wash). They were more on the consciousness of the American public than the Supremes.
5. Nothing the Jean Terrell led 70's Supremes recorded was more soulful than "I'm gonna make you love me", "Love Child", and "Someday we'll be together". Diana Ross already paved that road for the Supremes".

The Supremes in the 70's had more Top 40 hits than any of the groups that you list. They had more than any other female group in the World between 1970-79!

[REDHOT]

You tell it like is is Marv lol,l'v seen The Supremes with Jean live,on stage, many times,and she was always Supreme,a pro.[[on stage)but i'm sure she wasn't easy to work with,Mary had a lot on her plate with Jean,no matter what,no set of Supremes could touch them,well until,Mary Scherrie and Susaye came alone,even Motown wasn't ready for them,they[[Motown)like them so much,they wanted to manage them,but Mary and Pedro was not having it,bad move,oh by the way,Florence came out to Los Angeles to see The Supremes Mary Cindy and Scherrie 1975.Please stay positive

[Jimi LaLumia]

Marv is correct on this point, but it's a bit of a hollow victory since, as the 60's Motown was about groups, the 70's Motown was about solo artists,the solo MJ hits, Marvin, Stevie,Eddie Kendricks, Ross, Smokey, Lionel flying the coop by the end of the decade, groups were out, single performers were in, so it's not like there was a tremendous competition going on with female groups, at Motown or anywhere else for that matter towards the latter part of the decade..

[jobeterob]

No one thouught it more hollow than Mary as she set out in her books; basically, the group regardless of what it was, couldn't attract enough of a crowd or sell enough records to pay it's bills by 1977. In the end, it wasn't much different for every other female group of that era.

[REDHOT]

The point is The Supremes was still the number 1 female group in the 70s lol,i just love The Supremes Live In Japan cd,Mary singing Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You is THE BEST.Please stay positive

[marv2]

Mary has high standards. Jean Terrell was perhaps the very best female vocalist to ever record for Motown Records [[in my opinion). She was about excellence and it showed whenever you dropped the needle on the record! Mary was about the group being excellent at all times. Even with her own band/group, her backing singers were not allowed to be seen in public without make up! That is how they were! The Supremes as a group made some of their best records [[again, in my opinion) beginning in 1970. They were gorgeous, sang like angels and moved like dreams! I have no complaints in that regard.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and again, I agree with Marv in regard to the above..totally.. in regard to recordings made for Motown..
in regard to many tv appearances and 'live' performances.. not so much..
as a recording artist, I agree that it didn't get any better than Jean..sadly, it did not translate to live, and group/ interaction appearances...regardless of whatever went down with Ross/Wilson, etc in the 1960's, their public appearances, on a professional level, never reflected anything other than ultimate showbiz excellence, with Ballard and Birdsong...
In my opinion [[which is all any of these statements are), the 70's versions never had that same,'public face' cohesion..ever..

[thisoldheart]

i have to agree that the product that contained ross/wilson/ballard&birdsong was a package that worked on record and live. the post ross supremes had a real singer with chops in terrell, but the stage product was by then totally out of date. no popular group looked as garish as the 70's supremes. evening gowns were for vegas. we fans wanted singer/songwriters in jeans!

[supremester]

THANK YOU - what a full and wonderful report! Sounds like a great show and I bet those older Ross hits weren't missed much, if at all by many. That's great about Bad Weather - the real fans would know everything that was out. I have a bud who saw JML throwing whistles into the audience during the intro. How frequent were the shows? How many days? was there a charge? Did you go the next year? MSC were without a contract so I wonder who did their bookings? [QUOTE=BayouMotownMan;190590]Florence appeared at Magic Mountain the following year. The shows at Magic Mt in 1973 were awesome, and the crowds enthusiastic. Surprising to me was the audience knew Bad Weather and many were blowing whistles throughout the song as Mary had done on the recording [[which didn't fit to me at all).

As I recall, the set was:
Stoned Love-opening
Cabaret Medley [[couple of times)
Mary's solo on Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You
70s hits medley
Bad Weather [[a long extended version)
Jean's solo on He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother [[some nights)
I Guess I'll Miss The Man [[some nights)
Tossin' and Turnin'
Love Train/Oh Happy Day

There were no Diana Ross songs in the set at all. Unknown to me was by the time of this appearance [[August 1973), Jean had already told Mary and Motown she was leaving. Backstage all three ladies were very sweet. But while Lynda and Jean mingled, Mary stayed in the dressing room rather quiet and reserved. She looked like a lady with a lot on her mind.

[REDHOT]

Yes Mary had a lot on her mind, with Jean and Lynda bein' Jenova's Whitness,i'm sure that was a lot to bare,The Supremes[[Mary Cindy Jean Lynda) from the 70s were still,the number 1 female singing group,no matter how it went,i'm happy it went,they way it did,because The Supremes Mary Scherrie and Susaye were even better,i just LOVE The Supremes from the 70s lol,please stay positive

[thisoldheart]

were the very late [[post jean) supremes as successful as the emotions or love unlimited? i am curious, because that's who i was listening to after terrell left. the clips of songs like "driving wheel" even look & sound as if the late supremes were trying to sound like them ... or do i have my years mixed up?

[supremester]

Nah - they only had one week in the top 40 - at # 40. Personally, I think The Pointers and Three Degrees were the biggest - but it depends on how you measure them. I think the best ballad they ever did [[You Are The Heart Of Me) beat anything any other girl group did [[minus that insane moaning........arrrrrgh WTF were they thinking?????)

[captainjames]

The 70's Supremes had longevity is what I saw from the group but the stardust from the 60's was wearing off. Jean's voice was good and I know I am in the minority here but I still feel Motown could have stayed in the same groove with Mary on songs like "Can't Take My Eyes" and build more around her being the lead and then concentrated on Jean, Cindy, Lynda with the more pop songs or higher notes. I strayed to groups like Stargard, First Choice, Honey Cone, High inergy and yes of course The Three Degrees.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I just broke out the vinyl lp of Honey Cone, "Soulful Tapestry" and it is exquisite, four fab hits on there, "Want Ads", "Stick Up", "One Monkey Don't Stop No Show" and "The Day I Found Myself".. just fabulous..

[motony]

and I love Honey Cone but that was their 4 hits, they had better records but they didn't sell. I think the Supremes' fate would have been better if Scherri Payne had been the one to replace Diana Ross...she had the stage charisma to go with the looks.Jean Terrell was/is a good singer just not SUPREME.

[carole cucumber]

It is so good to see that people of differing opinions are hearing one another and considering what is being said.
There is one point I've always wondered about...
While Berry Gordy & Shelly Berger were in Miami for Diana Ross & the Supremes' engagement at the Eden Roc Hotel [[Miami) in 1969, Ernie Terrell invited Berry & Shelly to the Fontainebleau to check out his group, The Heavyweights. Shelly recounted that he and Berry were quite impressed with the female lead, Ernie's sister, Jean, and saw her as a possible replacement for Diana in the Supremes.
It has been written that "You Can't Hurry Love" was one of the songs sung by Jean during the show.
My question is... did Jean sing it as Diana did [[like the record) or did she give it a Jean-vocalization? Or did she incorporate a little of each in her performance?
As best as I recall, I've not seen this question addressed/answered anywhere. Perhaps it has been , and it has escaped my notice.
Anyone?

[luke]

Mark Ribowsy in the book The Supremes extensively interview the Holland brothers. Quite revealatory.

[luke]

Great discussion. I agree Jean and maybe Thelma best singers ever at Motown. JMC had the suprmes charisma/style. Never the same after that. Scherrie great singer but too different in style from the DMFCJ.

[midnightman]

The lineup of Jean, Mary and Cindy was tighter than the other '70s Supremes lineups imho. Between 1970 and 1972, yeah they were still the top female act but things changed after the Pointers and a recharged Labelle [[formerly known as the Bluebelles) came into play. Let's not forget there was a period between 1973 and 1975 when the Supremes weren't heard from on the radio and by then the Three Degrees had started to take their audience too.

[REDHOT]

LOL The Supremes Mary Wilson Cindy Birdsong Jean Terrell Lynda Laurence Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene from the 70s ROCKED,i also think Scherrie would have been a better replacement,when Diana left The Supremes,Scherrie is a team player,all for the group,she would have NEVER walk out on the group,like Jean and Lynda did,i remember watching The Supremes on The Merv Griffin Show,singing This Dream,and a Medley Mary singing lead on The Way We Were,and Scherrie singing the lead on Maybe This Time,it was really a SPECIAL performance,THE BEST.Please stay positive

[sup_fan]

i'm not going to get into the fray here of whether or not jean should adlib, if she hates mary, if lynda was on her monthly, etc.

I posted this clip to youtube. over the many years i've collected a ton of sup videos. i have another copy of this clip where the sound is great. none of that grittiness. but there's no interview, it skips the dramatic intro and just starts with Jean's "Stoned Love" and then drums into the main song. but the image quality sucks

then [[this was back in the late 90s) a fan mentioned on some fan board that another fan had gotten actual copies of the show in pristine video quality. it was this one, the one with MSS doing IGLMHDLW and the 60s medley, MSS doing Let Yourself Go, etc. they stated that the fan had really gone out of his way to get these and so i think we all bought copies. they did state up front that the sound quality on the MJL version was damaged in the vaults so it is what it is. i've thought about trying to sync the sound of the first with the picture of the second. but haven't gotten that sophisticated yet

so while teh performance is a bit flawed at least we get to see it again

[marv2]

There is one point I've always wondered about...
While Berry Gordy & Shelly Berger were in Miami for Diana Ross & the Supremes' engagement at the Eden Roc Hotel [[Miami) in 1969, Ernie Terrell invited Berry & Shelly to the Fontainebleau to check out his group, The Heavyweights. Shelly recounted that he and Berry were quite impressed with the female lead, Ernie's sister, Jean, and saw her as a possible replacement for Diana in the Supremes.
It has been written that "You Can't Hurry Love" was one of the songs sung by Jean during the show.
My question is... did Jean sing it as Diana did [[like the record) or did she give it a Jean-vocalization? Or did she incorporate a little of each in her performance?
As best as I recall, I've not seen this question addressed/answered anywhere. Perhaps it has been , and it has escaped my notice.
Anyone?

No it wasn't! It was "Come See About Me" and who in the heck would know or remember how she sang it?

[marv2]

The lineup of Jean, Mary and Cindy was tighter than the other '70s Supremes lineups imho. Between 1970 and 1972, yeah they were still the top female act but things changed after the Pointers and a recharged Labelle [[formerly known as the Bluebelles) came into play. Let's not forget there was a period between 1973 and 1975 when the Supremes weren't heard from on the radio and by then the Three Degrees had started to take their audience too.

Oh come on! The Three Degrees had ONE record that got some play on Top 40 radio in the Fall of 1974 called "When Will I See You Again" . Even with that one, the lead on it, Sheila Ferguson [[sp?) sounded like an imitation Jean Terrell and the harmonies sounded like Supremes rip offs ......to me!

[marv2]

LOL The Supremes Mary Wilson Cindy Birdsong Jean Terrell Lynda Laurence Scherrie Payne and Susaye Greene from the 70s ROCKED,i also think Scherrie would have been a better replacement,when Diana left The Supremes,Scherrie is a team player,all for the group,she would have NEVER walk out on the group,like Jean and Lynda did,i remember watching The Supremes on The Merv Griffin Show,singing This Dream,and a Medley Mary singing lead on The Way We Were,and Scherrie singing the lead on Maybe This Time,it was really a SPECIAL performance,THE BEST.Please stay positive

Jean Terrell was the absolute best choice to become the new lead singer! I love Scherrie but there was only one Jean Terrell that could make any song sound good!

[supremester]

I think Tammi Terrell would have been the best choice. Jean's talent didn't extend itself to the pop culture of the day that JMC needed badly, but she sure could sing. Miss Ross aside, I think Gladys Knight is the best female singer and listen to her today: 99% still there. Motown was lucky to have Ross, Holloway, Knight, Reeves, Terrells x 2 , Thelma........no record company - not even Columbia could have successfully handled that many. No company ever has.

[jobeterob]

I think Jean was the right choice for Diana's replacement.

If you play the 45 of Up The Ladder to the Roof on an old record player, Motown and Jean were very Diana-like to start things off.

It was a great start considering who she was replacing and the amazing success Diana Ross & the Supremes had had.

The trouble was by 1972, as someone previous has written, the whole Supremes concept was as old as the 1950's; the gowns were unpopular; some of them started to look cheap to me; the whole sound and concept of the Supremes was dated. And they couldn't break out of it. After Stoned Love, they pretty much had it.

If they had as early as 1971 and for sure by early 1972, moved to a new look, a reinvention with Scherrie as lead singer ~ it might have worked. Instead they started to fight, change members, hire a loser for a manager who had a conflict of interest and bounced around with several concepts, none successful.

Scherrie might have saved them then. But that is just another "what if".

God, what if Marv is Pedro or Pedro's son? LOL. Makes sense hey?

[BayouMotownMan]

Scary. I agree with your assessment Kamasu, the 70s Supremes were trapped by Motown's insistence on keeping them in a 60s capsule. When Lynda joined the company panicked so much that their concerts became a re-hash of the Farewell lp. At one point the only Jean song's in the show were Stoned Love and their latest recording. Sometimes Everybody's Got The Right was thrown in. Hey Big Spender and It's Alright With Me were for supper club audiences and the teen and college crowd didn't really take to them. When Scherrie joined they again became even more of a travelling Vegas act. When they started recording they went disco. Both decisions gave them limited exposure.

[blueskies]

Does anyone know if Jean is still in LA? I thought I had read somewhere she was now in N. Carolina...which didn't make much sense....or maybe it does?

[BayouMotownMan]

Jean is still in a LA suburb. Her manager was in NC

[blueskies]

Jean is still in a LA suburb. Her manager was in NC

Thank you. That makes sense, now.

[BayouMotownMan]

To the best of my knowledge Jean is no longer working

[REDHOT]

No Jean is no longer working,she'll take a job singing,maybe once every 10 years,don't get me wrong,i loved what Jean did with The Supremes,but The Supremes Mary and Cindy needed a team player,and Jean wasn't a team player,one of the reason i said Scherrie would have been better,Scherrie IS a team player, all for the group,and she would have RESPECT Mary,for the number 1 reason,she's an ORIGINAL SUPREME,that stands for something,I JUST LOVE THE THE SUPREMES FROM THE 70s lol,Please stay positive

[midnightman]

Oh come on! The Three Degrees had ONE record that got some play on Top 40 radio in the Fall of 1974 called "When Will I See You Again" . Even with that one, the lead on it, Sheila Ferguson [[sp?) sounded like an imitation Jean Terrell and the harmonies sounded like Supremes rip offs ......to me!

Might have had only one hit in the U.S., I meant in other countries. I wasn't saying they didn't sound like the Supremes lol

[marv2]

Might have had only one hit in the U.S., I meant in other countries. I wasn't saying they didn't sound like the Supremes lol

I'm sorry, my bad. I know they had great success over in Europe. The only stations from another country I heard growing up were in Canada. They did get a lot of play with "TSOP" with MFSB back in the day.