Recorded Live Mary Wells On Stage For those who have this, question to you...

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

At long last, I got this album. Does anyone else have this? A very interesting and somewhat curious listening experience. At the very outset there is some unintentional humor; the intro to "Two Lovers" strikes up and the audience goes berserk, but instead of Mary coming in, you get The Love Tones harmonizing an introduction [[the same intro you can see The Temptations performing in the clips of the Motortown Revue). Well, the audience seemed to have the same reaction I had- I was ready to hear Mary and so it was kind of a bumpy ride to get this "interruption" and it seems you can hear some in the audience being very vocal in wanting The Love Tones to get it over with! I swear, I heard a few females loudly saying "AWWWWW COME ON!" Maybe this was a very smart gimmick because when Mary did come in, that audience was squarely in the palm of Mary's hand.

Now, I've read how some of these live albums were assembled from various performances patched together but Mary's album makes it VERY obvious when you're hearing a performance from an entirely different venue. I can deal with that. What really threw me for a loop was on side 2 when the second song is very audibly the studio recording of "Old Love [[Let's Try It Again)"! I can't tell if they played the record in the venue over the sound system- because you can hear some paltry audience sounds- or if Motown just dubbed in the sounds from an audience. Either way, the "audience" seems just as baffled by why a record is being played on a supposedly "live" album.

If that ain't strange enough, the next song is, again, the studio recording of "Operator" with some audience sounds sorta going on over the top of it. And it's not like the audience was applauding or getting into these two records, it was like everyone was just stunned into confused silence with a few moments of murmuring. Whaaaa?

The album ends with a live performance of "You Beat Me To The Punch." In all, there are four songs on each side, so it's a fairly short album. So my question is, were the two records played during some sort of intermission during one of Mary's shows? There's no way Motown could have believed, even for a nanosecond, that anyone with a brainstem would have believed these were live recordings. And before anyone brings up the practice of singers being brought into the studio to dub some "clean up" vocals over live recordings, that's not even close to what's going on with this album. My guess is there just weren't enough live performances to fill an entire album, so Motown made do with the addition of these two album cuts.

It's actually a good album from the standpoint of showing that Mary could sound just as good, sometimes even better, in person than on records. But did anyone else who bought this album found the whole thing somewhat odd?

[Motown Eddie]

I've never heard Mary Wells' Live On Stage album however from your take on the recording, it sounds like they took the studio takes of some of the songs and overdubbed cheers to simulate a live concert.

[motony]

Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).
OK that explains a lot. It just struck me as being odd that the use of the studio recordings were so very obviously studio recordings. What you wrote also puts into perspective that this was still very much in Motown's early, learning years.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Having had my curiosity piqued I dialed up the lp on The You Tube. The YT poster concurs with motony and further delineates which tracks were recorded where. Cant say that the info is correct but it is interesting to see -

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPYmW4kLD-0dbmP6FExZhICFXLoVswEZW

[reese]

Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).

Motony, wasn't it you who also mentioned that Motown brought some of the artists into the studio to provide additional audience reaction for the live albums?

[kenneth]

The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.

[motony]

yes, reese, Mary herself told me that.

[reese]

yes, reese, Mary herself told me that.

I told you before and I'll tell you again: you should write a book!

[reese]

The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.

The first one I bought was that of the Marvelettes. I bought it from a used record store for the unbelievable sum [for me, as a kid] of $8. Considering how much it probably goes for now, I'm sure I was very lucky. Many years later, I bought a used copy of Mary Wells' live album for $25 but it was in horrible shape.

In 1987, the Marvelettes and Mary Wells live albums were combined on one cd and released on a bootleg label, Motorcity. There was also a similar set with Miracles and Marvin Gaye live albums on one cd.

A few years back, Mary Wells' live album was released as a download so I could finally put my scratchy vinyl to rest.

[kenneth]

The first one I bought was that of the Marvelettes. I bought it from a used record store for the unbelievable sum [for me, as a kid] of $8. Considering how much it probably goes for now, I'm sure I was very lucky. Many years later, I bought a used copy of Mary Wells' live album for $25 but it was in horrible shape.

In 1987, the Marvelettes and Mary Wells live albums were combined on one cd and released on a bootleg label, Motorcity. There was also a similar set with Miracles and Marvin Gaye live albums on one cd.

A few years back, Mary Wells' live album was released as a download so I could finally put my scratchy vinyl to rest.


I guess the "!2 Year Old Genius" LP wasn't included. That entire album was [[supposedly) live, wasn't it, or was it just "Fingertips?"

I wish I had picked up those CDs when they were available. They are fun to listen to except [[for me) that rough patch of the Marvelettes doing "Lockin' Up My Heart."

[reese]

I guess the "!2 Year Old Genius" LP wasn't included. That entire album was [[supposedly) live, wasn't it, or was it just "Fingertips?"

I wish I had picked up those CDs when they were available. They are fun to listen to except [[for me) that rough patch of the Marvelettes doing "Lockin' Up My Heart."

The entire 12 YEAR OLD GENIUS album was live, I believe.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Having had my curiosity piqued I dialed up the lp on The You Tube. The YT poster concurs with motony and further delineates which tracks were recorded where. Cant say that the info is correct but it is interesting to see -

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPYmW4kLD-0dbmP6FExZhICFXLoVswEZW

Nice! I'll check out this video tonight. Thank you!

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.
Well, at least I don't feel as bad when I posted this. I didn't intend it to sound as if I was throwing rotten eggs at the album or Motown's early LPs for that matter, but I really was surprised at the shoddiness of those "...sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears" as you said. So at least I'm seeing by everyone's reactions that is ain't just me! Still, I do like hearing that Mary wasn't just a studio singer, but someone who sounded just as good even under less-than-perfect circumstances.

[motony]

In the 60's all LIVE music shows could suffer because of audio equipment, microphones, amps ect. I remember one show in '68 that was a big package show starring the Impressions that because of microphone issues Barbara Mason stormed off the stage after 2 songs "Oh How It Hurts" and I forget what the 2nd one was . I guess they had to deal with whatever equipment the venue had.

[kenneth]

Well, at least I don't feel as bad when I posted this. I didn't intend it to sound as if I was throwing rotten eggs at the album or Motown's early LPs for that matter, but I really was surprised at the shoddiness of those "...sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears" as you said. So at least I'm seeing by everyone's reactions that is ain't just me! Still, I do like hearing that Mary wasn't just a studio singer, but someone who sounded just as good even under less-than-perfect circumstances.

I agree with you, and we have so little on these early artists in a live setting that it's just so hard to appreciate what hard work they had on the road. So I'm grateful we have whatever we do...and I'm glad you don't think I'm a creep for criticizing our favorite singer!

You know, there's a great book, I'm pretty sure it was called "Showtime at the Apollo," and it really captured the excitement and unpredictability of those early performances, and the grind of the road which had a lot in common with the old vaudeville circuits, much earlier. It's worth checking it out if you ever come across it.

And as you know, I'm still holding out hope that the guys will someday find a tape of the latter day Marvelettes live in their more polished days, with [[of course) Wanda singing lead. I refuse to believe there isn't something in the vault!

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I agree with you, and we have so little on these early artists in a live setting that it's just so hard to appreciate what hard work they had on the road. So I'm grateful we have whatever we do...and I'm glad you don't think I'm a creep for criticizing our favorite singer!

You know, there's a great book, I'm pretty sure it was called "Showtime at the Apollo," and it really captured the excitement and unpredictability of those early performances, and the grind of the road which had a lot in common with the old vaudeville circuits, much earlier. It's worth checking it out if you ever come across it.

And as you know, I'm still holding out hope that the guys will someday find a tape of the latter day Marvelettes live in their more polished days, with [[of course) Wanda singing lead. I refuse to believe there isn't something in the vault!

I agree, Kenny. Wanda took over lead-vocal chores of The Marvelettes in 1965. After hitting big with "Don't Mess With Bill" in 1965, Motown had ample opportunity to catch at least one live set featuring Wanda Rogers & The Marvelettes from 1965-1970. It seems impossible to believe that no live material exists in the Motown vaults. Not even one song?

[reese]

I agree, Kenny. Wanda took over lead-vocal chores of The Marvelettes in 1965. After hitting big with "Don't Mess With Bill" in 1965, Motown had ample opportunity to catch at least one live set featuring Wanda Rogers & The Marvelettes from 1965-1970. It seems impossible to believe that no live material exists in the Motown vaults. Not even one song?

I vaguely recall reading that there was no more live material from the Marvelettes but I cant confirm where. I would think if there was some it would have been included in the recent FOREVER MORE set.

That said, you never know what could possibly be unlabeled in the vaults. I would certainly love to hear it. I've often wondered what their late 60s act was like.

[motony]

I NEVER saw the Marvelettes LIVE without Gladys. I saw Gladys, Kat & Wanda on the Otis Redding Tour which I think was in Nov. 1966.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I vaguely recall reading that there was no more live material from the Marvelettes but I cant confirm where. I would think if there was some it would have been included in the recent FOREVER MORE set.

That said, you never know what could possibly be unlabeled in the vaults. I would certainly love to hear it. I've often wondered what their late 60s act was like.

Reese, to my knowledge, there are only two examples of The Marvelettes performing [[lip-syncing") live, and they're both for "Don't Mess With Bill":

https://youtu.be/OVsW_6AomOQ

https://youtu.be/Ljt3XbwH9Dc

[For the latter, note The Supremes sitting on stage, off to the side.]

[reese]

Reese, to my knowledge, there are only two examples of The Marvelettes performing [[lip-syncing") live, and they're both for "Don't Mess With Bill":

https://youtu.be/OVsW_6AomOQ

https://youtu.be/Ljt3XbwH9Dc

[For the latter, note The Supremes sitting on stage, off to the side.]

The first clip is from HULLABALOO and they are actually singing live to track.

The second clip is from the SWINGIN' TIME tribute to the Supremes, where they also lipsynced PLEASE MR. POSTMAN.

Also, there are two 1964 clips from the TEEN TOWN show where they lip-sync PLEASE MR. POSTMAN and TOO MANY FISH IN THE SEA. And of course, the 1963 hits medley live from the Apollo.

[kenneth]

I vaguely recall reading that there was no more live material from the Marvelettes but I cant confirm where. I would think if there was some it would have been included in the recent FOREVER MORE set.

That said, you never know what could possibly be unlabeled in the vaults. I would certainly love to hear it. I've often wondered what their late 60s act was like.

Via this forum a while back, I asked one of the gentlemen who put together the box sets, I think when the "Forever More" box came out, if they ever found any live recordings, and he indicated they felt they had unearthed every Marvelettes recording in the vaults and had found no live tracks.

But I think a couple studio recordings leaked out since then. "Sweet Talkin' Guy" isn't on the box sets, is it? But it's on one of the Motown Girls comps. And there was another track which was attributed to "The Marvelettes" but they concluded that it was a scratch demo vocal by an unknown singer, as I recall.

Still, I'll keep hoping. The live recording on the Tammi Terrell box set had some songs which she never recorded in the studio and which showed her talent to good advantage. I'd just love to hear a Marvelettes show like that.

[luckyluckyme]

But I think a couple studio recordings leaked out since then...... And there was another track which was attributed to "The Marvelettes" but they concluded that it was a scratch demo vocal by an unknown singer, as I recall.



I think you're recalling 'Grass Seems Greener [On the Other Side]' with Bettie/Bette Winston on lead. It was on "Finders Keepers- Motown Girls 1961-1967".

[kenneth]

I think you're recalling 'Grass Seems Greener [On the Other Side]' with Bettie/Bette Winston on lead. It was on "Finders Keepers- Motown Girls 1961-1967".

Thats the one, thanks!

[Roger Polhill]

"Girls Need Love And Affection" was included on "More Motown Girls" from Ace.