[REMOVE ADS]




Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1

    Recorded Live Mary Wells On Stage For those who have this, question to you...

    At long last, I got this album. Does anyone else have this? A very interesting and somewhat curious listening experience. At the very outset there is some unintentional humor; the intro to "Two Lovers" strikes up and the audience goes berserk, but instead of Mary coming in, you get The Love Tones harmonizing an introduction [[the same intro you can see The Temptations performing in the clips of the Motortown Revue). Well, the audience seemed to have the same reaction I had- I was ready to hear Mary and so it was kind of a bumpy ride to get this "interruption" and it seems you can hear some in the audience being very vocal in wanting The Love Tones to get it over with! I swear, I heard a few females loudly saying "AWWWWW COME ON!" Maybe this was a very smart gimmick because when Mary did come in, that audience was squarely in the palm of Mary's hand.

    Now, I've read how some of these live albums were assembled from various performances patched together but Mary's album makes it VERY obvious when you're hearing a performance from an entirely different venue. I can deal with that. What really threw me for a loop was on side 2 when the second song is very audibly the studio recording of "Old Love [[Let's Try It Again)"! I can't tell if they played the record in the venue over the sound system- because you can hear some paltry audience sounds- or if Motown just dubbed in the sounds from an audience. Either way, the "audience" seems just as baffled by why a record is being played on a supposedly "live" album.

    If that ain't strange enough, the next song is, again, the studio recording of "Operator" with some audience sounds sorta going on over the top of it. And it's not like the audience was applauding or getting into these two records, it was like everyone was just stunned into confused silence with a few moments of murmuring. Whaaaa?

    The album ends with a live performance of "You Beat Me To The Punch." In all, there are four songs on each side, so it's a fairly short album. So my question is, were the two records played during some sort of intermission during one of Mary's shows? There's no way Motown could have believed, even for a nanosecond, that anyone with a brainstem would have believed these were live recordings. And before anyone brings up the practice of singers being brought into the studio to dub some "clean up" vocals over live recordings, that's not even close to what's going on with this album. My guess is there just weren't enough live performances to fill an entire album, so Motown made do with the addition of these two album cuts.

    It's actually a good album from the standpoint of showing that Mary could sound just as good, sometimes even better, in person than on records. But did anyone else who bought this album found the whole thing somewhat odd?
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 11-20-2021 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,659
    Rep Power
    176
    I've never heard Mary Wells' Live On Stage album however from your take on the recording, it sounds like they took the studio takes of some of the songs and overdubbed cheers to simulate a live concert.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,591
    Rep Power
    146
    Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by motony View Post
    Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).
    OK that explains a lot. It just struck me as being odd that the use of the studio recordings were so very obviously studio recordings. What you wrote also puts into perspective that this was still very much in Motown's early, learning years.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    4,926
    Rep Power
    131
    Having had my curiosity piqued I dialed up the lp on The You Tube. The YT poster concurs with motony and further delineates which tracks were recorded where. Cant say that the info is correct but it is interesting to see -

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZhICFXLoVswEZW

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,619
    Rep Power
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by motony View Post
    Some of Marys' LIVE was done at the Graystone Ballroom in Detroit & some of the LIVE was done at the Regal in Chicago. I have all the LIVE series and the Miracles is the best.They all suffered from "equipment" problems. By the time Motortown Revue Volume ll was recorded they seemed to have gotten the equipment problems together.Where they used actual studio recordings is because the LIVE recordings came out so bad sound wise.As far as LIVE recordings go in the early 60's, the BEST is James Brown Live At the Apollo[[Volume 1).
    Motony, wasn't it you who also mentioned that Motown brought some of the artists into the studio to provide additional audience reaction for the live albums?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Rep Power
    185
    The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

    These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

    But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.
    Last edited by kenneth; 11-20-2021 at 03:04 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,591
    Rep Power
    146
    yes, reese, Mary herself told me that.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,619
    Rep Power
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by motony View Post
    yes, reese, Mary herself told me that.
    I told you before and I'll tell you again: you should write a book!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,619
    Rep Power
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

    These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

    But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.
    The first one I bought was that of the Marvelettes. I bought it from a used record store for the unbelievable sum [for me, as a kid] of $8. Considering how much it probably goes for now, I'm sure I was very lucky. Many years later, I bought a used copy of Mary Wells' live album for $25 but it was in horrible shape.

    In 1987, the Marvelettes and Mary Wells live albums were combined on one cd and released on a bootleg label, Motorcity. There was also a similar set with Miracles and Marvin Gaye live albums on one cd.

    A few years back, Mary Wells' live album was released as a download so I could finally put my scratchy vinyl to rest.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Rep Power
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    The first one I bought was that of the Marvelettes. I bought it from a used record store for the unbelievable sum [for me, as a kid] of $8. Considering how much it probably goes for now, I'm sure I was very lucky. Many years later, I bought a used copy of Mary Wells' live album for $25 but it was in horrible shape.

    In 1987, the Marvelettes and Mary Wells live albums were combined on one cd and released on a bootleg label, Motorcity. There was also a similar set with Miracles and Marvin Gaye live albums on one cd.

    A few years back, Mary Wells' live album was released as a download so I could finally put my scratchy vinyl to rest.

    I guess the "!2 Year Old Genius" LP wasn't included. That entire album was [[supposedly) live, wasn't it, or was it just "Fingertips?"

    I wish I had picked up those CDs when they were available. They are fun to listen to except [[for me) that rough patch of the Marvelettes doing "Lockin' Up My Heart."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,619
    Rep Power
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    I guess the "!2 Year Old Genius" LP wasn't included. That entire album was [[supposedly) live, wasn't it, or was it just "Fingertips?"

    I wish I had picked up those CDs when they were available. They are fun to listen to except [[for me) that rough patch of the Marvelettes doing "Lockin' Up My Heart."
    The entire 12 YEAR OLD GENIUS album was live, I believe.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceNHarmony View Post
    Having had my curiosity piqued I dialed up the lp on The You Tube. The YT poster concurs with motony and further delineates which tracks were recorded where. Cant say that the info is correct but it is interesting to see -

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZhICFXLoVswEZW
    Nice! I'll check out this video tonight. Thank you!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth View Post
    The editing on those early live albums was too atrocious to be believed. The sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears. I was probably in my early 20s when I found these albums in the cut-out bins, but I can't imagine any self-respecting teenager wouldn't have wondered at the crude edits and scanty attention to quality on these. Still, as others have said, it's nice to have at least some document of these early performances. For example, some of the Marvelettes' live set is almost unlistenable [[due to Wanda's screeching, and she is my all time favorite Motown singer), but some of it is excellent as you can really feel the crowd's excitement and how different the Marvelettes were on stage than they were in the studio.

    These must have been really rushed to market. The first James Brown Apollo set is indeed excellent, but a lot of James Brown's 'live' LPs have similar quality problems to those in the early Motown catalog.

    But anything is better than simply overdubbing the sounds of a live crowd over a studio recording. Or singers lip-syncing to a recording while they're pretending to be live...and never knowing quite how to handle the fade out at the end of the record. I didn't even remember that "Operator" and "Old Love" were the studio recordings on the Wells set. I'll have to find these and listen to them again. Too bad they're not on CD. As I recall, there was a Marginal or some other bootleg European label CD set which I think included all 4 of the early live albums [[Miracles, Marvelettes, Gaye, Wonder). I had a couple of the Marginal sets [[like the Eddie Holland, before his material was made available in that fantastic double CD set), and their quality wasn't bad, all things considered.
    Well, at least I don't feel as bad when I posted this. I didn't intend it to sound as if I was throwing rotten eggs at the album or Motown's early LPs for that matter, but I really was surprised at the shoddiness of those "...sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears" as you said. So at least I'm seeing by everyone's reactions that is ain't just me! Still, I do like hearing that Mary wasn't just a studio singer, but someone who sounded just as good even under less-than-perfect circumstances.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,591
    Rep Power
    146
    In the 60's all LIVE music shows could suffer because of audio equipment, microphones, amps ect. I remember one show in '68 that was a big package show starring the Impressions that because of microphone issues Barbara Mason stormed off the stage after 2 songs "Oh How It Hurts" and I forget what the 2nd one was . I guess they had to deal with whatever equipment the venue had.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Rep Power
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance View Post
    Well, at least I don't feel as bad when I posted this. I didn't intend it to sound as if I was throwing rotten eggs at the album or Motown's early LPs for that matter, but I really was surprised at the shoddiness of those "...sudden changes in the tapes when suddenly the crowd noise disappears - or suddenly appears" as you said. So at least I'm seeing by everyone's reactions that is ain't just me! Still, I do like hearing that Mary wasn't just a studio singer, but someone who sounded just as good even under less-than-perfect circumstances.
    I agree with you, and we have so little on these early artists in a live setting that it's just so hard to appreciate what hard work they had on the road. So I'm grateful we have whatever we do...and I'm glad you don't think I'm a creep for criticizing our favorite singer!

    You know, there's a great book, I'm pretty sure it was called "Showtime at the Apollo," and it really captured the excitement and unpredictability of those early performances, and the grind of the road which had a lot in common with the old vaudeville circuits, much earlier. It's worth checking it out if you ever come across it.

    And as you know, I'm still holding out hope that the guys will someday find a tape of the latter day Marvelettes live in their more polished days, with [[of course) Wanda singing lead. I refuse to believe there isn't something in the vault!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

[REMOVE ADS]

Ralph Terrana
MODERATOR

Welcome to Soulful Detroit! Kindly Consider Turning Off Your Ad BlockingX
Soulful Detroit is a free service that relies on revenue from ad display [regrettably] and donations. We notice that you are using an ad-blocking program that prevents us from earning revenue during your visit.
Ads are REMOVED for Members who donate to Soulful Detroit. [You must be logged in for ads to disappear]
DONATE HERE »
And have Ads removed.