I saw For One And For All in September of '83. It was a great show, but Pieces Of Ice wasn't included although it was still the current release, nor was Up Front. Let's Go Up was the only song from the Ross LP that was on the set list. I wonder if Pieces Of Ice was ever performed live...
I agree with you Ollie. The first three RCA albums were workmanlike to say the very best. I thought things began to improve with "swept away" and then with "eaten alive" a project that should have happened three years earlier. I know Barry Gibb quite well and i got his thoughts on the project along with Diana's own. Barry originally wanted him and Diana to duet on "islands in the stream". Diana turned him down but Barry was not to be detered. After working with Streisand and Dionne his other ambition was to work with Diana and Dusty Springfield. Dusty was not at all interested but Diana finally saw the potential. Barry clinched the deal by involving Michael Jackson. Diana and Barry hit it off but Diana and Maurice Gibb clashed quite frequently. I will not go into that here. Chain Reaction was the last song to be recorded for the project and was included at the last minute whilst a ballad from the sessions was canned. Another song from the sessions also remains in the vault.
Diana is a fan of the Bee Gees and she liked the album. Barry was also pleased with the results and the pair decided to work together again, but the relative failure of the album in the States put that idea on the backburner. I think it remains one of her most consistent RCA efforts along with RHRAB. Sadly RCA had had their fill of Diana by this time and the album was not promoted property. Barry was pissed by this and made his feelings plain.
Years later Diana approached Barry to record another album together but Barry had more serious worries at this time and the plan never came to fruition.
Hope the above helps.
Diana would have recorded IJCSLU with MJ but by this time they were not so close as they once were. MJ was upset when Diana chose Stevie over him to give her away at her wedding. He felt that he owed her no favours even though she needed a hit at this time. It would have been perfect for Diana . and i do like the song. The Luther album has been discussed many times here and was a real lost opportunity. Luther would have done two or three albums with Diana, but she was having none of it for reasons best known to herself.
Well I sure didn't get that vibe at the Oakland Coliseum Arena. She was on fire. The show got great reviews. Over 20,000 fans were on their feet adoring her all night. Spoke to many people after the show and everyone loved the show. The Oakland news paper the next day said something like all other female singers need to watch and learn from Diana. They compared her show to Olivia Newton Johns show who was there the week before and favored Diana's show over Olivia's. I am not saying other shows were like this but the one I saw during this tour Diana was in all her glory!
i worked in the RCA Distribution office [[soon to be BMG). The weak ass RCA field staff may have been weary of having to work, but, the RCA brass wanted her to resign. She agreed to tour the BMG branches while on the "Red Hot Rhythm & Blues Tour". She stopped by the San Francisco office and that was the first time I met her and had a nearly 2 hour face to face conversation with her. She invited me to the listening party at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Believe me, if RCA was "tired of her", they would never had spend the money for an expensive event at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Unfortunately, well that's not unfortunate, but, she was pregnant with Ross and had to cancel the tour. Before she canceled the tour, she did a soldout date at the Shoreline Ampitheater.
i had an advance cassette of "Red Hot Rhythm and Blues". I kept yelling for her to sing "Cross My Heart" and "Tell Me Again". But even though their were "Red Hot Rhythm & Blues tee-shirts [[one is on sale at eBay now) and "Dirty Looks" sunglasses for promo use, even "Dirty Looks" wasn't included in the San Francisco date though it had been released and was already Top 10 @ KSOL and getting AirPlay on KMEL.
That's in total contradiction to what I heard and what she has said. She made a commitment to Robert Summers, former president of RCA, that the album would be ready for the holiday selling season. Personally, I think it was her wanting to keep her word, that made "Why Do Fools" such a disappointment following "diana". Though it was admirable that she wanted to keep her word, the artistic process cannot be held hostage to a deadline. I would have rather her wait until Nile & Bernard were available for round two or wait for Michael Gore who had produced "Flashdance". She still could've had creative input but not carry the burden of getting a new album out, setting up Mgmt offices, etc. amongst her other commitments.
We can only speculate, but, I think her pregnancy was a wonderful new surprise for her. But that doesn't explain preparation. I do recall her looking puzzled in my direction as I yelled out song titles that audiences shouldn't have known. She didn't realize that advances were circulating on cassette. It was before CD advances had become the standard.
By the time of "The Force Behind the Power", she actually included 6-7 in that set before Motown got that album out.
so what is better, not including new unreleased material or practically doing an entire new album, as she did on the "Here and Now Tour".
i saw the opening dates on that tour up and down the east coast, and if Motown would have had "The Force Behind the Power" in stores beginning ith the opening date in Poughkeepsie, that album would have been Top 10 in all the tour markets. The tour began in June 1991 but Motown did not get the album in stores until September. In the U.K., they pre-released the album to compliment her appearance on the Queen's Variety special which set the album up to eventually go Double Platinum in the U.K.
Thats right. We scheduled the album in the UK around the time of the Royal Variety Performance knowing full well this show got audiences of around 15 million. We also booked a couple of other TV appearances as well, and got great support from Radio 1 and 2. We knew we had a winner here, Diana firmly believed in the album and was the ultimate professional. Great memories. Thank you for reminding me.
I believe "RHR&B also had huge potential that was thwarted by terrible single choices and no real promotion in Europe, Diana's best sales market. Had songs such as "It's Hard For Me To Say", "Shine" or "Cross My Heart" been released as singles and promoted on various UK and other european tv shows, much in the way FBTP was it's fate could have been very different indeed.
The first song I heard from RHR&B was "It's Hard For Me To Say" which they played on the Dutch radio, even before the album was officially released. The same with "That's How You Start Over." In both cases, I was convinced that these songs would be released as singles! I guess "Shockwaves" was chosen in the aim to repeat the success of "Chain Reaction." I was hoping for "Shine" -- not a big fan of Simply Red but I loved that song and was hoping for a good 12 inch version.
Eaten Alive [[the song) was much better live than recorded. for whatever reason, the Jacksons love unintelligible, mushy vocals. Michael, Janet and the others consistently have recordings where you have to STRAIN to figure out what the heck they're singing. Enunciation is not their forte lol. And apparently/obviously it works for them. It wasn't a good idea though for Diana. her fans were used to decades of crystal clear songs and articulation.
I'm not saying EA would have been a #1 single. but the track isn't bad and the song could have at least charted respectably had people been able to understand it.
as for RHRB I think the released album, in the US, was very uneven.
I have to agree. There were some gems on that album. I thought 'Shine' could have been a hit. I remember hearing 'Mr Lee' being played on Radio 1 when it was a single and the dj whipped the track off after about 30 seconds, saying it was rubbish. I had to agree with him. Whoever made the singles choices from that album, at least for the U.K, really messed up i.m.o.
"Thats How You Start Over" "Chain Reaction" and "Shine" were to my ears the obvious choice for lead single selection from their prospective albums. This is not said in hindsight, as this is what i believed when the albums were first released.
I think RHR&B would be better remembered today had it produced at least a couple of hits. It has a light/bright, summer feel to it which is appealing. "Dirty Looks" is an ok album track, while "Shockwaves" is in nowhere near the same league as "Chain Reaction". "Mr Lee" as a single leaves me speechless. Who made these decisions??.
The album garnered some very nice reviews in the UK, summer of 87 with one reviewer calling it timeless.
Last edited by Ollie9; 08-23-2016 at 02:24 PM.
Oh definitely pre, Miss Cucumber. Ace do put out 70s Motown material from time to time [[more of it in the planning stage right now), but that's not what I have in mind for the Supremes in Motown Girls 3.
Do I dare to tell you, publicly, that I'm more of a Mary fan than a Diana fan? No, I think better not. Too big a clue. Plus who knows whether MG3 will ever happen?
Interesting discussion
I would have picked stranger In Paradise and Tell Me Again.
Mr. Hughes,
I apologize for my remark. I thought that you were hinting that it was on the docket for next year. I had assumed that the Motown Guys/Girls series had sold well enough to continue. If it's meant to be, then it will happen. If Ace or Universal have reservations, it will not.
Well of course we want to do another Motown Girls, ma'am, and indeed the series sells well. I'm just saying there are some steps between wanting and getting. We [[I) don't tell you when we have an idea, and it gets turned down somewhere along the line. The reasons why that happens are many and various. We roll with it, and if a proposal fails, we try to come up with something different - which might include the same tracks we previously proposed, under a different project title!
When I write my autobiography, I'll list all the projects I've proposed that have been turned down, and why. I hope you hope, as I do, that I'll have better things than that to do for a long time to come ...
You're welcome. It also gave me the benefit of having the import CD months before the U.S. release. EMI International even made singles boxes to house the CD/cassette single of "When You Tell Me That You Love Me" cross promoting the Royal Variety Performance including a great appearance on Des O'Connor. Diana believed she had a hit, but, more importantly...so did EMI and they treated the album accordingly for an entire year. As Motown stumbled at every turn. I often felt like the Motown staff might as well been given a classical record to work, they were that clueless.
An expanded edition of an album that reportedly sold less than 7,000 copies? On new release day/week, I couldn't even find a "new" copy to buy. I ended up buying a promo copy in Kenmore Square/Boston.
I did like the instrumental of "Red Hot". But the rest of the album sounded like Hal Davis only recorded the first take with little to no eq-ing.
it would be interesting to hear what Gus Dudgeon [[Elton John) had recorded on her since I really like the first "Elton John", "Madman Across the Water", etc. He was an interesting choice as a producer to go from a generic disco album to a rock/pop direction.
Frank Wilson would have also been an interesting choice as a producer since he honed her vocals on the early Supremes 70s albums.
But I certainly wouldn't be too excited about more tracks from the "Mary Wilson" Mary Wilson debut. [[Mary Hartmann, Mary Hartmann).
Thanks to everyone who's contributed info about Diana Ross' RCA years. I've wrongly overlooked them for many years. I even forgot I had a copy of "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" and have been listening to the album for the past few days. If you put it up against "diana" 1980 it doesn't sound as strong, but on it's own I think it's a fun album, and shows Ross trying something new. I've also added the rest of her RCA albums to my too long "To Buy" list.
I also share your fears. It was a very poor album and i can think of far more worthy efforts to concentrate on , but it would be interesting to hear any unreleased tracks which could hardly be worse than some of the stuff on that ill conceived album. I would probably buy the damn thing out of respect for Mary , but i would much prefer to hear some Jean Terrell led vaulted songs.
Mary's debut album deserved better. Better material, better producer, etc. No offense to Hal David, but she needed someone like the Holland Brothers. They should have guided her in the direction of those brilliant ballads she did on the final Supremes albums. With that being said, those 4 Gus Dudgeon tracks deserve to see the light of day. Those should have been her debut album. The style was different for her, but it fit. She excels on them. "Save Me" and "Love Talk" should have been singles. I think "Save Me" could have been a hit if given the right promotion. It's a shame Motown dropped her because those 4 tracks with Gus had so much potential to become something great.
I'd love to see what more Ace has in store for other deserving Motown artists who haven't had the releases yet. Gladys Knight & the Pips especially.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't George Solomon do a remix of Mary's single RedHot and it was played on Midnight Johnny's show? And if I recall correctly the remix was excellent!
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