Marvelettes Pink Albim

[RBTEMPSFAN]

Hi guys, I am a life long Marvelettes fan and have wondered about the Pink album and then Sophisticated Soul.

Does anyone know whether Kat sang on any of the songs on either album? I know that a lot has been said that the end of the days Marvelettes was really Wanda with the Andantes.

Maybe Ralph could answer whether he know if the actual Marvelettes were on Message to Michael, Hunter Gets Captures, When your Young and In Love, etc?

This is not about the Andantes good or bad - it is about whether the Marvelettes themselves on the Pink album and Sophisticated Soul ever had Kat in the backgrounds.

I love the music anyway - but always wondered why they sounded so different towards the end then they did on Too Many Fish and Danger Heatrbreak.

Any ideas from any of you?

[daviddesper]

I too have learned so much in the last few years [[thanks to this board) about how Motown created its sound using the Andantes and other techniques. Still when I listen to the pink album, I assume that it is the real Marvelettes. I have always liked that deep part on "I Can't Turn Around" and just assumed that was Kat, but of course I could be wrong.

[robb_k]

I think that ALL The Marvelettes were on all or almost all cuts on the "pink album'. i think it was "Return of The marvelettes"-the LP with the 3 women riding horses, and only Wanda shown clearly, and the other 2 in the fog, that had only Wanda on lead, backed by The Andantes [[if I remember correctly our previous threads on this forum on that topic).

[Methuselah2]

RB - Robb is right about the RETURN album being solely Wanda and The Andantes--as that album was intended and recorded as Wanda's solo album effort. But the concept was changed at the packaging stage when it was decided that the 'Marvelettes name' would probably boost sales.

On the PINK album, Wanda is featured on some leads--such as HUNTER--and Gladys on others--such as I NEED SOMEONE and TONIGHT/THIS NIGHT WAS MADE FOR LOVE.

On TONIGHT/THIS NIGHT, The Andantes were added into the background along with The Marvelettes' voices.

[westgrandboulevard]

Without checking all the recording information I'd say that, generally, until 'Return', The Andantes [[used to sweeten the finished track) took the higher background harmonies, and The Marvelettes took the lower notes [[example, 'When You're Young And In Love' )- but not in all cases. I'd say 'Hunter' is just Wanda and The Andantes....

Gladys trades lead with Wanda on '"Keep Off, No Trespassing", on the chorus.

On the 'Sophisticated Soul' album, "Don't make hurting me a habit" is, for me, a classic example of blending both the background voices of The Marvelettes and The Andantes. The way they are mixed, or even where The Marvelettes stop singing "All right!" and The Andantes finish the line "You win....", makes for a perfect little track.

From memory, I'd say Katherine is indeed featured on 'Return', if only for the track 'Uptown', repeated from 'In Full Bloom'.....but that's of course just my own opinion

[motony]

Kat refused to pose for the pix on the "Return..."LP since she was not asked to sing. Yes "Uptown" is the real Marvelettes.

[BayouMotownMan]

I really don't hear the Marvelettes on the pink album at all. Maybe on Barefootin'.

If you watch the Hullabaloo show in 1966, Kat and Gladys's mike was on during the performance with the Andantes on the pre-recorded tape. It wasn't a good blend

[bradsupremes]

The Marvelettes are hardly on any recordings after 1966. There was some blending of the Marvelettes and the Andantes on such tracks as "Keep Off, No Trespassing," "Poor Little Rich Girl," and "This Night Was Made For Love," and usage of the Marvelettes on "Barefootin'," and Uptown," but other than that...it's pretty much solely the Andantes.

[marv2]

Kat says she is singing on the "Pink" album.

[BayouMotownMan]

There has been some question as to whether Motown would have continued with the Marvelettes and Stevie Wonder going into 1966. The Marvelettes hit their zenith from 61-63, but in 64 and 65 their sales dropped sharply and the group was quite inconsistent, sometimes 4 members, sometimes 3. Smokey spent time with Wanda as she was the wife of Miracles Bobby Rogers and liked the sexy quality of her voice. It was Smokey that really resurrected the group with Don't Mess With Bill. They were glossed up and gowned like the Supremes, who had overtaken the group is popularity. As has been discussed on the recent Unsung, Wanda became increasingly problematic, Gladys unhappy with being shoved into the background and Kat was in the middle. There were very few TV appearances of the Marvelettes in the late 60s and virtually no interviews were allowed. Compared to the Supremes or Vandellas, the Marvelettes were considered country or "street." Kat became their spokesperson in what few interviews were given. If anybody had any vids of the Marvelettes in the late 60s performing on tv, it would grab a pretty penny. They performed live only sporadically and mostly around Detroit, Chicago, DC and NYC. Interestingly, when they did perform live their show was quite exciting in terms of movement moreso than sound. Despite all this, their last four albums are quite excellent.

It was Sylvia Moy who turned Stevie around helping him with Uptight. What a talent he turned into.

[soulballad]

Although not released until A Cellarful a few years back, "I hope you have better luck than I did" has the Marvelettes on backing, I hear the Andantes doing the oooh's but Kat and Wanda are doing the responses, you can especially hear Wanda at the end.

[Motown4Ever518]

I had an opportunity to listen to the second volume of the complete albums of which the "pink" album is one, and as much as I loved Wanda Rogers voice, there is a such thing as too much of a good thing.

[bradsupremes]

I had an opportunity to listen to the second volume of the complete albums of which the "pink" album is one, and as much as I loved Wanda Rogers voice, there is a such thing as too much of a good thing.

I actually prefer Gladys' voice over Wanda's in that 64-67 time period. You compare Gladys' vocals on "Please Mr. Postman" to "This Night Was Made For Love," and you really see how much she grew as a vocalist.

[motony]

I saw the Marvelettes LIVE in 1966[[Nov.)& they were GREAT.There were no Andantes behind the curtain, LOL. They were the co-stars to Otis Redding.

[LuvHangOva]

My preference is also for Gladys with background vocals by the original Marvelettes[[ Please, Mr Postman, Playboy, Beechwood 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 , et al. I understand the "Mptown" concept that for the background the girls had a sound that wasn't as smooth as the Andantes but to me that made them perfect to backup Gladys Horton. She was not as "smooth as Brenda Holloway either. To me the girls on background are more like burlap, while the Andantes are like silk [[sometimes too smooth for me). There's nothing wrong with "burlap."On the other hand I LOVE the Andantes with Wanda on "My Baby Must Be A Musician [[I mean Magician) and they are awesome backing the Four Tops on "Still Water"

[arrr&bee]

without checking all the recording information i'd say that, generally, until 'return', the andantes [[used to sweeten the finished track) took the higher background harmonies, and the marvelettes took the lower notes [[example, 'when you're young and in love' )- but not in all cases. I'd say 'hunter' is just wanda and the andantes....

Gladys trades lead with wanda on '"keep off, no trespassing", on the chorus.

On the 'sophisticated soul' album, "don't make hurting me a habit" is, for me, a classic example of blending both the background voices of the marvelettes and the andantes. The way they are mixed, or even where the marvelettes stop singing "all right!" and the andantes finish the line "you win....", makes for a perfect little track.

From memory, i'd say katherine is indeed featured on 'return', if only for the track 'uptown', repeated from 'in full bloom'.....but that's of course just my own opinion

very interesting westgrand,and you're right just listen to the sweet fade at the end of-the hunter.

[Kamasu_Jr]

The Andantes did not back the Four Tops on Still Water. The girls singing on that were the two women in Undisputed Trûth. The Andantes did not sing on as many sessions as they claim. There were other female session singers at Motown.

[LuvHangOva]

Doesn't make a difference to me who it is..., Whoever it is on Still Water by the Four Tops... The background vocals blow me away. Every place I search on the Internet says the Andantes.... But whatever. My comment pertained to using the real Marvelettes or anonymous background singers. I would preferred the real gals on most of their stuff with a few exceptions

[Kamasu_Jr]

Obviously it did make a difference when you initially mentioned it. The notes for Still Water in the Tops' 50th Anniversary set [Page 34] says it was not the Andantes, but Brenda Joyce Evans and Billie Rae Calvin. I think the notes in this set from this Hip- O collection are more credible.

[Methuselah2]

with Wanda on "My Baby Must Be A Musician [[I mean Magician)

Thanks a good one!

[Methuselah2]

According to Andante Louvain Demps on NIGHTFLIGHT [[WOMR.org) in Dec. 2012, The Andantes recorded on every Four Tops' single except for one--THE SAME OLD SONG.

[Kamasu_Jr]

According to Andante Louvain Demps on NIGHTFLIGHT [[WOMR.org) in Dec. 2012, The Andantes recorded on every Four Tops' single except for one--THE SAME OLD SONG.

I like Louvain Demps, but she's pulling a Darlene Love move ...taking credit for songs she and the Andantes didn't sing on. I understand it, the Andantes have been left out of the Motown story many times. But she's wrong. The Andantes were not singing on Still Water [Love}. And if the Andantes didn't sing on Same Old Song, then why doesn't she tell us who did?

[rod_rick]

I like Louvain Demps, but she's pulling a Darlene Love move ...taking credit for songs she and the Andantes didn't sing on. I understand it, the Andantes have been left out of the Motown story many times. But she's wrong. The Andantes were not singing on Still Water [Love}. And if the Andantes didn't sing on Same Old Song, then why doesn't she tell us who did?

It sounds like the Andantes on It's The Same Old Song imo than on Still Waters. I always thought it was Joyce Vincent Pam Vincent and Telma Hopkins on Still Water. I recall Telma mentioning that she sang on Still Water on the Wayne Brady show.

[Kamasu_Jr]

It sounds like the Andantes on It's The Same Old Song imo than on Still Waters. I always thought it was Joyce Vincent Pam Vincent and Telma Hopkins on Still Water. I recall Telma mentioning that she sang on Still Water on the Wayne Brady show.

I forgot about my darling Telma. For the longest time, I had thought it was her and the Vincent Sisters too. It sounds like Telma is on there. But the liner notes in Four Tops 50th say otherwise. I assume the 50th notes are right because the writer had access to session notes. It's possible that it was Telma and the ladies from Undisputed Truth on Still Water. The problem is these women sang on so many Detroit sessions, they forget what they've done. The Andantes had other ladies doing sessions but they don't wanna give them credit and that's so wrong.

[LuvHangOva]

Obviously it did make a difference when you initially mentioned it. The notes for Still Water in the Tops' 50th Anniversary set [Page 34] says it was not the Andantes, but Brenda Joyce Evans and Billie Rae Calvin. I think the notes in this set from this Hip- O collection are more credible.

Au Contraire Kaminator,

It didn't make a difference when I first mentioned it, when I first heard it or anytime subsequent to that. It STILL doesn't make a difference, I like the SOUND of the background vocalists on that record. I don't care if they were called the Andantes, The Arpegios, The Adagios, The Allegros, The Prestos, The Prestissimos, the Crescendos,The Kamettes or Brenda and The Tabulations. Bottom line: I like the sound of the background vocalists on Still Water Love and wish T-H-A-T sound could have been in the background of more Motown recordings. Now then, back to the topic at hand..."Ladies and Gentlemen, The Marvelous Marvelettes!!"

[Kamasu_Jr]

True, the background voices on Still Water do make the record. I do think Gladys Kat and Ann did sing on Marvelettes' recordings after 1965, but the Andantes were also used to smooth out and sweeten the sound.

[Motown4Ever518]

The bad news is that as "baaaaadddddd" as the Marvelettes were, they were in the top ten of Motown female groups. 1-8 DRATS, MRATV #9 and sadly, at #10, The Marvelous Marvelettes.Which means that the vastly underated, and undervalued Velvelettes were reduced to top 11.It was from the Marvelettes second complete singles set that I read that the last "Marvellettes" project was supposed to be a Wanda Rogers solo project which it essentially was, however someone suggested that if you asked the average record buyer who Wanda Rogers was, most would not know. Therefore we have "The Return of The Marvelettes", instead of Introducing Ms. Wanda Rogers!