A gross exaggeration of Stand By Me

[woodward]

I was listening to the NBC-10 Philadelphia news broadcast this morning when the news anchor reported to the public how "THE MOTOWN SONG STAND BY ME" was featured in the royal wedding yesterday.

News to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[luke]

Yes. Sung by a choir

[milven]

I don't know of any connection of Stand By Me to Motown, the city, or Motown, the label. The anchor erred.

[luke]

Ohhhhhhhh. I misunderstood!

[midnightman]

"Motown" song. The mainstream media need to realize not every R&B song in the '60s was released on Motown! Same to people who keep calling Aretha a MOTOWN legend.

[mysterysinger]

To many folks, all black music is Motown - e.g. Nat King Cole [[just look on ebay, for example). They don't know better [[or don't care). So the news anchor erred for sure.

But, of course, Jimmy & David Ruffin had "Stand By Me" issued as a single on the Soul label and it was a track on their album "I Am My Brother's Keeper". I doubt very much that the anchor was thinking of that.

[woodward]

To many folks, all black music is Motown - e.g. Nat King Cole [[just look on ebay, for example). They don't know better [[or don't care). So the news anchor erred for sure.

But, of course, Jimmy & David Ruffin had "Stand By Me" issued as a single on the Soul label and it was a track on their album "I Am My Brother's Keeper". I doubt very much that the anchor was thinking of that.

I also highly doubt it also. She probably never heard of Jimmy and David. At the peak of their popularity she was probably a child. Too bad.

[thanxal]

To many folks, all black music is Motown

You hit the nail on the head with that one. And they're too damn lazy to educate themselves.

[TomatoTom123]

On Little Big Shots I'm pretty sure Steve Harvey called James Brown a Motown legend!

[woodward]

On Little Big Shots I'm pretty sure Steve Harvey called James Brown a Motown legend!

It didn't happen, however, it could have happened. You need to read in Raynoma's book her story how James Brown was expected to become a Motown legend [[per sae) but the whole plan was aborted. I doubt however that Steve Harvey would know this little tidbit of Motown information though.

[alexstassi]

As a gigging vocalist i get it all the time when asked to sing some Motown, and when asked if they want any specific song they mention the likes of "Dock of the bay" "saturday night at the movies" or any Sam Cooke.....

[mysterysinger]

I'm thankful James Brown didn't join Motown as I cannot stand him - I could never conceive of collecting any of his work. Just a personal thing.

[TomatoTom123]

I'm thankful James Brown didn't join Motown as I cannot stand him - I could never conceive of collecting any of his work. Just a personal thing.

Fair enough mystery. I know what you mean. But I do love a lot of his work. Can I ask why specifically you can't stand him?

[TomatoTom123]

It didn't happen, however, it could have happened. You need to read in Raynoma's book her story how James Brown was expected to become a Motown legend [[per sae) but the whole plan was aborted. I doubt however that Steve Harvey would know this little tidbit of Motown information though.

Interesting Bill. I swear everyone in the biz almost has a connection to Motown. Well, if you look hard enough!

And yeah, I'm pretty sure Steve Harvey didn't know about this, lol

[soulster]

"Motown" song. The mainstream media need to realize not every R&B song in the '60s was released on Motown! Same to people who keep calling Aretha a MOTOWN legend.

To many folks, all black music is Motown - e.g. Nat King Cole [[just look on ebay, for example). They don't know better [[or don't care). So the news anchor erred for sure.

And it pisses me off, too! Those same people also think anything dancible in the 70s and 80s is automatically disco.

I'm thankful James Brown didn't join Motown as I cannot stand him - I could never conceive of collecting any of his work. Just a personal thing.

Whaaaatttt??????????😬 Turn in your funk card!

[PeaceNHarmony]

The name 'Motown' has, for years, been used generically as a compliment as well as an identifier. Subsequent generations have other things to think about. It's the music business; get over it. And, the inclusion in the royal wedding was wonderful.

[TomatoTom123]

The name 'Motown' has, for years, been used generically as a compliment as well as an identifier. Subsequent generations have other things to think about. It's the music business; get over it. And, the inclusion in the royal wedding was wonderful.

Wait Motown was included in the royal wedding!!? Now I am a royalist

[soulster]

The name 'Motown' has, for years, been used generically as a compliment as well as an identifier.

But, it it isn't historically accurate. It is a disservice to the other companies that dealt with Black music. There is a rich history and it should not be changed and violated because some kid doesn't think it's important. It's not a compliment to Atlantic, Stax, Chess, and all the other labels that primarily gave us soul music in the 60s.

[thanxal]

The name 'Motown' has, for years, been used generically as a compliment as well as an identifier. Subsequent generations have other things to think about. It's the music business; get over it. And, the inclusion in the royal wedding was wonderful.

We should be thankful that "they" know black people exist? I will not get over it. "Black people history" is much more than those all black people singin' sum songs. Sorry if that disrupts the wonderful wedding. This wedding is what white people use to white wash black people..."oh,well she IS black, so it must be okay". I will, again, not get over colonialists telling me to get over it [[black identity).They are trying to make themselves feel better for the outright crimes they have committed [[in the case of the British). Having one black woman marrying into the Royal Family just aint enough for the crimes of colonial Britain.

[luke]

Well said thanxal. Is this now what we say if we don’t agree with something ..”Get over it.” Gonna become a pretty rigid forum.

[thanxal]

Well said thanxal. Is this now what we say if we don’t agree with something ..”Get over it.” Gonna become a pretty rigid forum.

Luke, I agree with you sometimes and I don't agree with you other times. But I do not recall you ever telling me to "get over it".

[luke]

Ditto. Wouldn’t do it.

[StuBass1]

The name 'Motown' has, for years, been used generically as a compliment as well as an identifier. Subsequent generations have other things to think about. It's the music business; get over it. And, the inclusion in the royal wedding was wonderful.

Good analysis...Motown as a concept itself become recognized as a music genre, not necessarily relegated to strictly the label, but a symbol of a certain sound that emanated in the late 50's and continued into the 70's...the "classic Motown period. Those of us that grew up in and around the evolution of what occurred over there on West Grand Blvd and saw it in some shape or form firsthand should consider ourselves fortunate. I suppose there are some "purists" who believe that Motown should only exist as a record label and successful business enterprise, yet Motown becoming a cultural phenomenon enhance it's legacy well beyond a successful business enterprise. That said, there are certainly lines that should not be crossed, and artists who recorded for other labels or songs should not be identified as Motown artists...and yes, I even get a bit irritated when someone is clearly identified the wrong way...but yes...folks should get over it, and if a song comes on the radio and gets misidentified as a "Motown" song...they can impress their friend and correct the mistake...and really knocking the socks off their friend if they know the artist, writer, producer, and label in question...

[marv2]

To many folks, all black music is Motown - e.g. Nat King Cole [[just look on ebay, for example). They don't know better [[or don't care). So the news anchor erred for sure.

But, of course, Jimmy & David Ruffin had "Stand By Me" issued as a single on the Soul label and it was a track on their album "I Am My Brother's Keeper". I doubt very much that the anchor was thinking of that.

To my Uncle George, called all white music "Hillbilly" music. It is all stupid to be that lazy and categorize vast amounts of very different popular music as one thing.

[marv2]

I'm thankful James Brown didn't join Motown as I cannot stand him - I could never conceive of collecting any of his work. Just a personal thing.

You know that's Heresy! James Brown's music has inspired countless artists, including Hip Hop artists and without him, you wouldn't have had a lot of music and artists you probably enjoy. Love James Brown!

[soulster]

We should be thankful that "they" know black people exist? I will not get over it. "Black people history" is much more than those all black people singin' sum songs. Sorry if that disrupts the wonderful wedding. This wedding is what white people use to white wash black people..."oh,well she IS black, so it must be okay". I will, again, not get over colonialists telling me to get over it [[black identity).They are trying to make themselves feel better for the outright crimes they have committed [[in the case of the British). Having one black woman marrying into the Royal Family just aint enough for the crimes of colonial Britain.

Thank you! But, I say that many white people will suddenly quit obsessing about royal weddings now. I listened to Al Sharpton's show on MSNBC Sunday morning, and he said a lot of people were yelling racial epithets there.

I do not excuse people for not knowing that "Stand By Me" by Ben E. King was never Motown, not even close! Sure, many artists have covered the song since, but that isn't the point. Spyder Turner's version was on MGM. Maurice White's version was on Columbia.

I do not dismiss people for thinking that just because it's Black music in the 60s that it's "all the same". No, it isn't.

[soulster]

To my Uncle George, all white music was "Hillbilly" music. It is all stupid to be that lazy and categorize vast amounts of very different popular music as one thing.

But, according to a lot of people, it's perfectly OK to categorize all R&B and funk music as disco, or all rap as misogynist.

[marv2]

But, according to a lot of people, it's perfectly OK to categorize all R&B and funk music as disco, or all rap as misogynist.

Let's call it what it is. It is all bullshit! What it says is that some do not take this black art form seriously enough to learn anything about it other than the performers have black faces and "black voices". It is all the same to them. HA! Now if that were true, I do not believe we would have gotten all the surprise responses to that Black minister that spoke at the Royal Wedding. I did watch it on Sky TV which is a British television outlet and they acted as if they never heard a preacher sound so "impassioned" before about the word of the Lord. I was surprised at their reaction. They complained that he went on for 13 whole minutes. Just last weekend I attended the funeral for my former minister from when I was a kid and his service lasted just over 4 hours! Cultural differences are amazing....ignorance of those differences are not!

[TomatoTom123]

I can't believe the coverage this royal wedding has got. It's two people getting bloody married. Lol. And that's coming from a British person.

And then some people are acting like the royal family has totally modernised and transformed. Yeah right

[mysterysinger]

Fair enough mystery. I know what you mean. But I do love a lot of his work. Can I ask why specifically you can't stand him?

Undoubtably he is brilliant in his own sphere but hasn't had the same profile here in the UK as in the US. Only 1 top 10 hit [["Hey America") for example and I almost like that one and can listen to "I Got You" as well. For a minute or two I also liked "Sex Machine" but I don't enjoy music lacking a decent melody and with a lot of repetition to boot. My leanings are to good melodies and I guess pop music. So I much prefer the King Of Pop to the Godfather of Soul. That is just my taste. I decided long ago I wasn't a fan of James Brown. That was long before I learnt that he was a serial abuser of women [[including Tammi Terrell it seems). But we're in danger of getting off topic I think.

[marv2]

Undoubtably he is brilliant in his own sphere but hasn't had the same profile here in the UK as in the US. Only 1 top 10 hit [["Hey America") for example and I almost like that one and can listen to "I Got You" as well. For a minute or two I also liked "Sex Machine" but I don't enjoy music lacking a decent melody and with a lot of repetition to boot. My leanings are to good melodies and I guess pop music. So I much prefer the King Of Pop to the Godfather of Soul. That is just my taste. I decided long ago I wasn't a fan of James Brown. That was long before I learnt that he was a serial abuser of women [[including Tammi Terrell it seems). But we're in danger of getting off topic I think.

Listen to:

"Try Me"
"Bewildered"
"Prisoner of Love"
"It's a Man's Man's Man's World"

For starters to give you a better understanding of the versatility of James Brown and his music. He truly was one of the great ones and pioneered several music genres!

[booty]

Well, Motown or not Motown, the Gospel Choir that delivered "Stand By Me" were absolutely brilliant. And as for the address given by Bishop Michael Curry was another highlight of the service. After hearing that I was almost a believer!!!!

[RanRan79]

But, it it isn't historically accurate.

No, it isn't, but should we be surprised at this? This country is proving year after year that history doesn't matter, and thus facts don't matter. As an example, people are spreading lies regarding the issue of slavery and that it either wasn't a cause of the Civil War, or more lately I'm noticing people saying it wasn't the principle cause. And these lies are pushed despite the fact that the Ordinances of Secession for every southern state that seceded lists slavery as a root cause. It makes no difference to the people spreading this nonsense that the folks who actually seceded wrote down that they would do whatever it took to hold on to their slaves, and if that meant forming their own nation to do it, then that's how it was going to be. To the liars it's more important to make shit up in order to hold the pro slavery/anti-Black crowd [[Confederates) in high esteem than to get the facts right and at the same time admit that the reason they love Confederate stuff so much is because they believe the worst thing to happen to the USA is when they let the darkies off the plantation.

Of course my example is a far more important issue than mislabeling artists as Motown acts, but it just goes to show if people aren't interested in historical accuracy regarding things that actually can have effects on our daily lives, why would they bother getting the history of Black music correct? In a few years the Supremes will be gospel singers and the Temptations played Jazz, John Mayer invented the blues and Eminem invented rap. History be damned.

[RanRan79]

We should be thankful that "they" know black people exist? I will not get over it.

I put that person on ignore, but I can see what he said in your response to him...how disgusting. And this in a forum devoted to Motown! The nonsense around here never ceases to amaze me.

[marv2]

Well, Motown or not Motown, the Gospel Choir that delivered "Stand By Me" were absolutely brilliant. And as for the address given by Bishop Michael Curry was another highlight of the service. After hearing that I was almost a believer!!!!

I enjoyed it all too. Regarding Bishop Curry's sermon, it was rather tame compared to many Baptist ministers.

[marv2]

You hit the nail on the head with that one. And they're too damn lazy to educate themselves.

Yet i can probably name every King and Queen of England[[beginning with Henry VII) in order from what I learned in the 4th Grade last century! LOL!

[marv2]

On Little Big Shots I'm pretty sure Steve Harvey called James Brown a Motown legend!

Steve Harvey is an idiot! He is from Cleveland and older than I am. He grew up during the Motown and James Brown era. By era I mean when each were at the peak of their popularity.

[marv2]

As a gigging vocalist i get it all the time when asked to sing some Motown, and when asked if they want any specific song they mention the likes of "Dock of the bay" "saturday night at the movies" or any Sam Cooke.....

Do people consider all music from the "British Invasion" to be by the Beatles?

[midnightman]

It didn't happen, however, it could have happened. You need to read in Raynoma's book her story how James Brown was expected to become a Motown legend [[per sae) but the whole plan was aborted. I doubt however that Steve Harvey would know this little tidbit of Motown information though.

James Brown called the Motown artists a bunch of "ministrels playing for the white folks" or something to that effect and he didn't want Gordy telling him what to do though he admired that a black man like Gordy made Motown from scratch. Who knew that Stevie and Marvin had the same feeling of how Motown treated them as James felt?

[marv2]

James Brown called the Motown artists a bunch of "ministrels playing for the white folks" or something to that effect and he didn't want Gordy telling him what to do though he admired that a black man like Gordy made Motown from scratch. Who knew that Stevie and Marvin had the same feeling of how Motown treated them as James felt?

Yet James Brown was very good friends with most of the Classic Motown artists. They all remained friends over the years. He was even at the Supremes Farewell Show. He wasn't perfect, who is? James was cool......

[milven]

Yet i can probably name every King and Queen of England[[beginning with Henry VII) in order from what I learned in the 4th Grade last century! LOL!

That's pretty impressive. That must be over twenty monarchs. Do you include the Crowells? I tried reading the history of the monarchy to follow the lineage, but it got confusing.

I can recite all the Presidents of the United States in order. The only purpose is to keep my mind sharp. I can also tell you who was president if you give me a year.

Shutup Milven. This thread is not about you

[marv2]

That's pretty impressive. That must be over twenty monarchs. Do you include the Crowells? I tried reading the history of the monarchy to follow the lineage, but it got confusing.

I can recite all the Presidents of the United States in order. The only purpose is to keep my mind sharp. I can also tell you who was president if you give me a year.

Shutup Milven. This thread is not about you

Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector and his son, sure. Yet many can't seem to learn about Black History here or abroad.

[soulster]

That's pretty impressive. That must be over twenty monarchs. Do you include the Crowells? I tried reading the history of the monarchy to follow the lineage, but it got confusing.

I can recite all the Presidents of the United States in order. The only purpose is to keep my mind sharp. I can also tell you who was president if you give me a year.

Shutup Milven. This thread is not about you

You're just fine, Milven. Talking about ourselves makes conversation interesting.

[soulster]

Let's call it what it is. It is all bullshit! What it says is that some do not take this black art form seriously enough to learn anything about it other than the performers have black faces and "black voices". It is all the same to them. HA!

I agree, Marv. But, if we wanted to be totally honest, the door swings both ways. There are Black people who look at all White people as the same. There are women who look at all men as the same, and vice versa.

Now if that were true, I do not believe we would have gotten all the surprise responses to that Black minister that spoke at the Royal Wedding. I did watch it on Sky TV which is a British television outlet and they acted as if they never heard a preacher sound so "impassioned" before about the word of the Lord. I was surprised at their reaction. They complained that he went on for 13 whole minutes. Just last weekend I attended the funeral for my former minister from when I was a kid and his service lasted just over 4 hours! Cultural differences are amazing....ignorance of those differences are not!

Cultural differences, indeed! At my mother's funeral, my sister hired ac Black woman preacher. She didn't know a whole lot about her sermons, but knew her back from high school. Anyway, at the funeral, this preacher turned our mother's service into an evangelical sermon about getting saved by Jesus. Hardly even mentioned our mom. We thought it was insulting, and it went on for too long. If we had known that was going to happen, se never would have hired her.

[soulster]

Undoubtably he is brilliant in his own sphere but hasn't had the same profile here in the UK as in the US. Only 1 top 10 hit [["Hey America") for example and I almost like that one and can listen to "I Got You" as well. For a minute or two I also liked "Sex Machine" but I don't enjoy music lacking a decent melody and with a lot of repetition to boot. My leanings are to good melodies and I guess pop music. So I much prefer the King Of Pop to the Godfather of Soul. That is just my taste. I decided long ago I wasn't a fan of James Brown. That was long before I learnt that he was a serial abuser of women [[including Tammi Terrell it seems). But we're in danger of getting off topic I think.

I'm not going to go off on mysterysinger too much. He just now let us know he's from the U.K., and there are probably cultural differences that we aren't understanding as far as the need to hear melody is concerned. Personally, I don't understand the need to hear melody in order for it to be considered valid music. But, that's because I grew up here in the U.S. with R&B music. With me, rhythm is the most important component in music.

[soulster]

No, it isn't, but should we be surprised at this? This country is proving year after year that history doesn't matter, and thus facts don't matter. As an example, people are spreading lies regarding the issue of slavery and that it either wasn't a cause of the Civil War, or more lately I'm noticing people saying it wasn't the principle cause. And these lies are pushed despite the fact that the Ordinances of Secession for every southern state that seceded lists slavery as a root cause. It makes no difference to the people spreading this nonsense that the folks who actually seceded wrote down that they would do whatever it took to hold on to their slaves, and if that meant forming their own nation to do it, then that's how it was going to be. To the liars it's more important to make shit up in order to hold the pro slavery/anti-Black crowd [[Confederates) in high esteem than to get the facts right and at the same time admit that the reason they love Confederate stuff so much is because they believe the worst thing to happen to the USA is when they let the darkies off the plantation.

Of course my example is a far more important issue than mislabeling artists as Motown acts, but it just goes to show if people aren't interested in historical accuracy regarding things that actually can have effects on our daily lives, why would they bother getting the history of Black music correct? In a few years the Supremes will be gospel singers and the Temptations played Jazz, John Mayer invented the blues and Eminem invented rap. History be damned.

So, shall we just accept it? No. We counter it with facts. They repeat lies long enough that people believe them. So, all we have to do is repeat the truth and back it up with historical evidence.

[soulster]

Do people consider all music from the "British Invasion" to be by the Beatles?

Touche! Sure, The Beatles are most often mentioned, but The Rolling Stones, The Animals, Herman's Hermits, Petula Clark, The Yardbirds, Peter And Gordon, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, The Dave Clark Five, and scores of others, are always included.

[marv2]

I agree, Marv. But, if we wanted to be totally honest, the door swings both ways. There are Black people who look at all White people as the same. There are women who look at all men as the same, and vice versa.



Cultural differences, indeed! At my mother's funeral, my sister hired ac Black woman preacher. She didn't know a whole lot about her sermons, but knew her back from high school. Anyway, at the funeral, this preacher turned our mother's service into an evangelical sermon about getting saved by Jesus. Hardly even mentioned our mom. We thought it was insulting, and it went on for too long. If we had known that was going to happen, se never would have hired her.

I know. My Uncle George called all music by white artists "Hillbilly Music". I don't even know if I was sure of what that meant LOL!

I went to my former Minister's funeral last weekend. It lasted over 4 hours! There was a woman that read condolences and messages to the family for 45 mins! In between all the other ministers speeches they talked about Rev. Johnson and his wife who were friends of MLK before he became nationally known. It should be a requirement that those officiating or conducting funeral services or masses at least know somethings about the deceased.

[marv2]

Touche! Sure, The Beatles are most often mentioned, but The Rolling Stones, The Animals, Herman's Hermits, Petula Clark, The Yardbirds, Peter And Gordon, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, The Dave Clark Five, and scores of others, are always included.

See, I am not amazed that you know the names of all of those different artists. You are intelligent and curious enough to want to know their names and probably their most popular recordings. I am that way also. It ALWAYS irritated me to hear a cover band announce that they are going to play the hits of Motown and then launch into something by the O'Jays, followed by "In the Midnight Hour" by Wilson Pickett!

This makes me remember in July 2005. I was at a outdoor concert on the East End of Long Island featuring the Funk Brothers with Mary Wilson headlining. They had special guests like Jimmy Buffet who lives in the area and Joan Osborne who participated in the documentary "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". During a break in the show, they were selling DVD's of the Doc. and CD's of Mary's music and some of Funks instrumentals. I had to explain to a large enough group there who the Funk Brothers were and the fact that they had played on more hit records than probably any other musicians in history. You should have heard the responses. all of the "Whoa", "Really?" and the "I didn't know that". I told them that they may not know who the musicians were but I could promise them that they heard their work many times over the years.

[marv2]

I'm not going to go off on mysterysinger too much. He just now let us know he's from the U.K., and there are probably cultural differences that we aren't understanding as far as the need to hear melody is concerned. Personally, I don't understand the need to hear melody in order for it to be considered valid music. But, that's because I grew up here in the U.S. with R&B music. With me, rhythm is the most important component in music.

James Brown was the most syncopated performer I had ever seen! To me he was sort of a genius. Who else could take 3-4 words and make a 10 minute recording with parts 1 & 2? LOL!!!! "You better get on the goodfoot!" LOL!