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  1. #51
    Super interesting read!

    If The Isley Bothers did record a version of I Heard it Through The Grapevine, it seems to be burried deep and yet to see the light of day. As discussed, there's more then one odd decision regarding Motown maintenance of their legacy/integrity. But that shouldn't stop the 'original' recording coming out.

    The 'original' recording of IHITTG is the stuff of legand, even making a prominent pop up in the Histsville documentary, with Berry Gordy calling his PA for confirmation. If Ron Isley's story is true, The Isley Bothers recorded the first version after Marvin Gaye's original demo version in 1966, using the same backing track. The The Miracles cut their first version, also in 1966.

    And then the track went on live more Motown lives than Dr Who;
    Gladys Knight & The Pips [[1967)
    Smokey Robinson & The Miracles [[with new vocals 1968)
    Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers [[1967)
    Marvin Gaye [[& The Andantes 1968)
    The Temptations [[1968)
    The Rustix [[1969)
    Sounds Nice ft Tim Mycroft [[1970)
    The Undisputed Truth [[1970)
    Rare Earth [[1978)
    Bettye LaVette [[1982)
    Michael McDonald [[2003)
    Calum Scott w/ Ray Parker Jr [[2018)

    I always thought a Stevie Wonder interpretation of IHITTG circa 1968-1972 would have had huge potential. We have his live renditions to only imagine could have been.

    The other interesting Isley Brothers song from Soul On The Rocks is that they recorded a cover of Whispers [[Getting Louder) - a 1966 Jackie Wilson song backed by The Funk Brothers and The Andantes. I mean, that had BG beef written all over it… Perhaps he was too busy.

    In summary I agree, The Isley Brothers tenure at Motown - though fraught with tension and denied its true potential - was and is a phenomenal contribution to Black Music history.

    We know it even if those involved don’t wanna talk about it.

    In the meantime, here’s praying there really is an Isley Brothers version of Grapevine, which will someday surface and grace our ear and their legacy.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomBairdFan View Post
    They may only have made two LPs, but when you're an Isleys fan, well....... these are my CDs. I'm sure you understand.

    Attachment 20269

    I would always feel a thrill when I used to play Motown Disco Classics Vol. 2 on LP - the 'Non-Stop' one with the 'M' cut out and that 'gold' paper poster inside that for some reason absorbed your fingerprints. When 'There's No Stopping Us Now' ended, the fuzz guitar of 'Got To Have You Back' immediately kicked in. Pure Ivy Hunter magic! It's so true that the Isley Brothers never made a bad side at Hitsville.
    Whoa, all this product from a couple albums' worth of material! Yikes, you are indeed a fan[[atic!). I suppose I might have to admit I might buy many variations of Marvelettes albums, but they had a pretty extensive Motown catalog. Great collection though!

  3. #53
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    But there are far more than 24 [[2 LPs) worth of Isley Bros Motown recordings.
    The Anthology show us this.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by snakepit View Post
    But there are far more than 24 [[2 LPs) worth of Isley Bros Motown recordings.
    The Anthology show us this.
    Indeed there are Snake a lot more. The Grapevine question is easy to answer the track when written was 'assigned to' the Isley Brothers but nothing was ever taken further than that, the Miracles had first crack by the looks of things with a demo for the temptations being overdubbed by Marvin, then a new version by GK and the Pips, then the Vancouvers, then the Temptations [[again) etc. etc. etc. Having thoroughly looked through the vaults for the anthology I think we can say the well is dry for the Isleys apart from alternate takes - certainly NO eveidence of there ever being a version of Grapevine by the trio - more's the pity. Interestingly there is a band track for the Supremes and the Temptations which also never recieved vocals
    Last edited by paul_nixon; 01-23-2023 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #55
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    It's like Tommy Good's mystical "Ask The Lonely".

    There's a suggestion that the IHITTG backing track, intended for The Isleys was later used for The Temptations.

    From 2014.

    https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...Grapevine-quot

    Sad but there it is [[or maybe we've been searching on the wrong tapes?). It's a lost cause. Shame.

  6. #56
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    Here is a Free Press article explaining about the Grammy related MusiCares tribute to be held in Los Angeles on 2/3/23 which outlines several Motown artists who will be performing at the ceremony. The performance will be a tribute to Berry Gordy and Smokey Robinson.

    The performers are Temptations, Four Tops, Lionel Richie, Valarie Simpson, and THE ISLEY BROTHERS. WOW.

    I was a little sketchy on the exact number of Isley Brothers still alive who will be the performers. According to the internet Ron Isley age 81 and Rudolph Isley age 83 are still alive. The third Isley Brother O'Kelly died so there will more than likely be two of the original three performing. After all these years that is phenomenal.

    https://www.freep.com/story/entertai...p/69823089007/

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodward View Post
    I was a little sketchy on the exact number of Isley Brothers still alive who will be the performers. According to the internet Ron Isley age 81 and Rudolph Isley age 83 are still alive. The third Isley Brother O'Kelly died so there will more than likely be two of the original three performing. After all these years that is phenomenal.
    It will most likely be Ron and younger brother Ernie. Rudolph left the group some time ago to become a minister, I believe.

  8. #58
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    Nice post, of all the great isley bros. Recordings for motown and beyond, my fav is actually the killer[b-side- there's no love left]!!

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    Indeed there are Snake a lot more. The Grapevine question is easy to answer the track when written was 'assigned to' the Isley Brothers but nothing was ever taken further than that, the Miracles had first crack by the looks of things with a demo for the temptations being overdubbed by Marvin, then a new version by GK and the Pips, then the Vancouvers, then the Temptations [[again) etc. etc. etc. Having thoroughly looked through the vaults for the anthology I think we can say the well is dry for the Isleys apart from alternate takes - certainly NO eveidence of there ever being a version of Grapevine by the trio - more's the pity. Interestingly there is a band track for the Supremes and the Temptations which also never recieved vocals
    Thanks as always Paul. Makes it pretty clear. That's interesting that there was almost a version by The Supremes and The Temptations. I can imagine how that would have sounded

    It's a shame Martha Reeves and Gladys aren't up there in the MusiCares line up along with Isley Brothers to keep the torch for female Motown artists. Still it's a fair tribute to Smokey and Berry and keeps their legacy alive.

  10. #60
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  11. #61
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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by BritishTony View Post
    Yep, It works! Thank you! That's actually amazing that the Isleys will be there too. Really nice to see not only because they deserve to be recognized for their Motown years, but also it shows there must be good feelings for them to go with the intent to honor Berry and Smokey.

  13. #63
    As a side note of trivia… you all may know this but Ron Isley technically returned to the [[post-Berry Gordy) Motown label with his duet with Kem in. This was part of Universal’s pushes for a new generation of Motown label artists to reflect the 60s family vibe.

    Kem ft Ronald Isley ‘My Favourite Thing’, 2014
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apqL...pM1YyU&index=7


    Kem also recorded the song ‘Beautiful World’ in Hitsville’s Studio A with the track arranged by Paul Riser and ‘Why Would You Stay’ arranged by David Van DePitt.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by PauloRich View Post
    As a side note of trivia… you all may know this but Ron Isley technically returned to the [[post-Berry Gordy) Motown label with his duet with Kem in. This was part of Universal’s pushes for a new generation of Motown label artists to reflect the 60s family vibe.

    Kem ft Ronald Isley ‘My Favourite Thing’, 2014
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apqL...pM1YyU&index=7


    Kem also recorded the song ‘Beautiful World’ in Hitsville’s Studio A with the track arranged by Paul Riser and ‘Why Would You Stay’ arranged by David Van DePitt.
    Ok, now that is something I didn't know. That's pretty wild that he returned to Studio A to record a couple of songs. I'll have to give those a listen. Thank for that nice and surprising information!

  15. #65
    Sadly it seems that only a couple of songs from Kem's 2014 album were recorded at the Snakepit so it doesn't appear that the Ron Isley duet was one. That would have elevated a truly historic moment even more!

    Here's an article about the Kem Hitsville recordings
    https://eu.freep.com/story/entertain...er/3747206002/

    Kem's also done a song called You Can Win with Stevie Wonder on harmonica. I think Kem was trully trying to reflect the Motown past

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PauloRich View Post
    Sadly it seems that only a couple of songs from Kem's 2014 album were recorded at the Snakepit so it doesn't appear that the Ron Isley duet was one. That would have elevated a truly historic moment even more!

    Here's an article about the Kem Hitsville recordings
    https://eu.freep.com/story/entertain...er/3747206002/

    Kem's also done a song called You Can Win with Stevie Wonder on harmonica. I think Kem was trully trying to reflect the Motown past
    I think "Live Out Your Love", from Kem’s 2020 album Love Always Wins, was also partially recorded there...!



    Lovely song… strings arranged by Paul Riser!!
    Last edited by TomatoTom123; 02-05-2023 at 03:50 PM.

  17. #67
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    A big ad Motown placed in the music press at the end of 66 [[the Supremes had a similar sized ad all to themselves) ... seems the Isleys were already deemed to be 2nd tier artists at the company as they only get a small name check bottom left ... Attachment 20310

  18. #68
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    The Isleys were signed by Motown in early December 65 .. Their 1st 45 was out only 5/ 6 weeks later. So "This Old Heart Of Mine" must have been written already & they must have gone straight into the studio to cut it.
    Is there anyway to actually date when the song was composed [[it's BMI registration would have followed after the event).
    Attachment 20311

  19. #69
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    Start of 1968 & the Isleys still only get a small name check mention [[though Edwin Starr doesn't even get that) ... Chuck Jackson [[newly signed in late 67) gets more attention in the ad [[the Tops / Tempts / Supremes shared a page sized ad all to themselves) ...
    Attachment 20312

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith View Post
    Start of 1968 & the Isleys still only get a small name check mention [[though Edwin Starr doesn't even get that) ... Chuck Jackson [[newly signed in late 67) gets more attention in the ad [[the Tops / Tempts / Supremes shared a page sized ad all to themselves) ...
    Attachment 20312
    Wow... while the Isleys were sort of lumped into the "and others," it's interesting that Brenda Holloway gets featured since she hadn't had a release since August 1967 ["You've Made Me So Very Happy"] and, though she was still recording, wouldn't have any further releases for Motown. Also fascinating is that The Velvelettes were included in the list of other artists [with The Isley Brothers]. I thought The Velvelettes had been "done" at Motown since mid-1967? Perhaps their contract was still running in early 1968 even if there was no recording...or performing?

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith View Post
    The Isleys were signed by Motown in early December 65 .. Their 1st 45 was out only 5/ 6 weeks later. So "This Old Heart Of Mine" must have been written already & they must have gone straight into the studio to cut it.
    Is there anyway to actually date when the song was composed [[it's BMI registration would have followed after the event).
    Attachment 20311
    These are fascinating images you provided. I never saw the "Motown Inks Isley Bros." trade ad. I have the other trade ads, but I like how you use these images to place the Brothers' career at Motown into context.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by danman869 View Post
    Wow... while the Isleys were sort of lumped into the "and others," it's interesting that Brenda Holloway gets featured since she hadn't had a release since August 1967 ["You've Made Me So Very Happy"] and, though she was still recording, wouldn't have any further releases for Motown. Also fascinating is that The Velvelettes were included in the list of other artists [with The Isley Brothers]. I thought The Velvelettes had been "done" at Motown since mid-1967? Perhaps their contract was still running in early 1968 even if there was no recording...or performing?
    Now that you mention this about Brenda getting a photograph featured, I'm a bit surprised Jr. Walker & The All Stars never received a photo in these ads. They had a pretty good run of hits, so you'd figure by 1968 they would have "graduated" to featured player status.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith View Post
    The Isleys were signed by Motown in early December 65 .. Their 1st 45 was out only 5/ 6 weeks later. So "This Old Heart Of Mine" must have been written already & they must have gone straight into the studio to cut it.
    Is there anyway to actually date when the song was composed [[it's BMI registration would have followed after the event).
    That seems about right!

    Working title: 'Don't Throw My Love Away'

    Band track recorded September 22, 1965, assigned to Kim Weston, strings recorded September 28, re-assigned to the Isley Brothers and their vocals recorded December 1, 1965


    According to DFTMC, it was published by Jobete on the 5th January 1966, with the 45 being released on 28th of that month.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Last edited by bradburger; 02-11-2023 at 11:51 PM.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by bradburger View Post
    That seems about right!

    Working title: 'Don't Throw My Love Away'

    Band track recorded September 22, 1965, assigned to Kim Weston, strings recorded September 28, re-assigned to the Isley Brothers and their vocals recorded December 1, 1965


    According to DFTMC, it was published by Jobete on the 5th January 1966, with the 45 being released on 28th of that month.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Well...now this raises all kinds of "what ifs." I think I read somewhere that even though a song is assigned to someone, in some cases that name may just be a placeholder of sorts [or I may have just thought I read it); but if HDH had recorded this with Kim, and it performed as well on the charts as it did for the Isleys, would it have changed Kim's status at Motown at all? Probably not. Probably would have been the same as Jimmy Ruffin's situation. He had a very substantial hit with "Brokenhearted" and yet it really didn't get Jimmy much more than a passing glance within the company. Hmmm.
    Last edited by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance; 02-12-2023 at 12:15 AM.

  25. #75
    Couldn't agree more about the quality Isley Brothers material at Motown. Especially those Gospel harmonies.

    So the good news is...

    The MusiCares set list had The Isley Brothers [[Ron and Ernest) down for one song - This Old Heart of Mine. It's long overdue to have the wider Motown artists featured at large telivised events. It solidifies the deeper Motown legacy, as Motown the Musical showed at its opening with nearly everyone there - Diana Ross to The Velvelettes.

    Anways, The Isley Brothers seemed to have a great time celebrating their "good friends Berry and Smokey". Hopefully this puts any beef to rest and The Isleys can assume their rightful place in Motown's global contribution, legacy and phenomenon. It's bringing the artists together in a respectful way.

    As a side [[joke) thought, imagine if they had of performed I Heard It Through The Grapevine haha.

    Here's The Isley Brothers sharing their good vibes and Motown acknowledgement;
    https://www.tiktok.com/@theisleybrot...88122002197803

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by PauloRich View Post
    Couldn't agree more about the quality Isley Brothers material at Motown. Especially those Gospel harmonies.

    So the good news is...

    The MusiCares set list had The Isley Brothers [[Ron and Ernest) down for one song - This Old Heart of Mine. It's long overdue to have the wider Motown artists featured at large telivised events. It solidifies the deeper Motown legacy, as Motown the Musical showed at its opening with nearly everyone there - Diana Ross to The Velvelettes.

    Anways, The Isley Brothers seemed to have a great time celebrating their "good friends Berry and Smokey". Hopefully this puts any beef to rest and The Isleys can assume their rightful place in Motown's global contribution, legacy and phenomenon. It's bringing the artists together in a respectful way.

    As a side [[joke) thought, imagine if they had of performed I Heard It Through The Grapevine haha.

    Here's The Isley Brothers sharing their good vibes and Motown acknowledgement;
    https://www.tiktok.com/@theisleybrot...88122002197803
    That’s great to see and hear

    I guess it has been about 50 years for the beef to subside!

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoTom123 View Post
    That’s great to see and hear

    I guess it has been about 50 years for the beef to subside!
    Some of those beefs were so long they've fossilised.

    As we know Motown existed and succeeded despite the torrent of societal and industry racism they continualy endured. As the phenomenom of the Motown story gets celebrated with many artists sadly departing and others in their senior years, it's encouraging to see the wider rosta on the major platforms.

    Every artist/writer/producer/musician/technician with a Motown experience within the Berry Gordy journey is part of that legacy, whether they were a 'hitmaker' or not. Thank the gods for the supporters who put on events, create documentaries and produce DFTMC and recordings and books over the decades.

    These major televised events [[Grammys/MusiCares/Kennedy Centre/R&R Hall of Fame/Whitehouse) also have the potential to introduce classic era Motown artists to new audiences and remind the mainstream of the breadth of Motown and their musical families achievements.

    We've been blessed with the Isley Bothers contribution to Motown and their fantastic recordings. It's great this has been recognised at a large event.

    Aside from Ronald Isley recording with Kem on contemporary Motown releases, Ernest Isley also played his distinctive guitar style on the tracks 'Love's Alright' and the Jimi Hendricks cover 'Hey Joe' for Eddie Murphy's 1992 Motown album;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDswE4Ng97U

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