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  1. #1

    Tammi Terrell - There Are Things

    There is a song produced by Harvey Fuqua around 1967 called "There Are Things" for Tammi Terrell. Does anyone know if this song was ever released as a 45 ?

  2. #2
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    It was not released on vinyl, as far as I know. It was one of the songs we considered for The "From The Vaults" project.

  3. #3
    I think it was first released when the cd of IRRESISTIBLE came out.

  4. #4
    According to the booklet included in the new Tammi Terrell set: "What A Good Man He Is b/w There Are Things (non-LP track), Motown 1115 (October 1967), release withdrawn". It was included in the CD release of "Irresistible" as a bonus track, along with "Baby Don'tcha Worry" the b-side of "Come On And See Me". The track for "There Are Things" was recorded Sept 4, 1963 with vocal by Ann Bogan. Tammi's vocals were added October 27, 1965 and re-cut February 20, 1966. Again according to the booklet.
    Last edited by sophisticated_soul; 10-21-2010 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #5
    Copies of this 45 are relatively easy to find. Relative to other withdrawn 45's that is!

    And are not that expensive either.

    But why worry about vinyl with the brill cd collection now available?

  6. #6

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    According to the booklet included in the new Tammi Terrell set: "What A Good Man He Is b/w There Are Things (non-LP track), Motown 1115 (October 1967), release withdrawn". It was included in the CD release of "Irresistible" as a bonus track, along with "Baby Don'tcha Worry" the b-side of "Come On And See Me". The track for "There Are Things" was recorded Sept 4, 1963 with vocal by Ann Bogan. Tammi's vocals were added October 27, 1965 and re-cut February 20, 1966. Again according to the booklet.
    I wonder if the original version of There Are Things was kept with Ann Bogan's lead vocals?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    It was not released on vinyl, as far as I know. It was one of the songs we considered for The "From The Vaults" project.
    Thank you, I find that interesting.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    I wonder if the original version of There Are Things was kept with Ann Bogan's lead vocals?
    I was wondering that myself, the booklet does not say. I was surprised to find out that Ann was recording with Motown that far back. Another song "Hold Me Oh My Darling" was also recorded July 10, 1963 with vocal by Ann Bogan. Tammi's vocal was recorded October 25, 1965. HMOMD was the b-side of "I Can't Believe You Love Me". It was also the b-side of "Your Precious Love", with Marvin added to Tammi's exsiting track.

  9. #9
    RE: I was surprised to find out that Ann was recording with Motown that far back .....
    Harvey knew Ann from his time in Cleveland & asked her to come to Detroit when he got there.
    They recorded together from early on (on a 45 on Harvey in May 63) after she had been lead with the Challengers / Challengers 3 on Tri-Phi in 1962.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith View Post
    RE: I was surprised to find out that Ann was recording with Motown that far back .....
    Harvey knew Ann from his time in Cleveland & asked her to come to Detroit when he got there.
    They recorded together from early on (on a 45 on Harvey in May 63) after she had been lead with the Challengers / Challengers 3 on Tri-Phi in 1962.
    There is always something new to learn about Motown. Thank you.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    I was wondering that myself, the booklet does not say. I was surprised to find out that Ann was recording with Motown that far back. Another song "Hold Me Oh My Darling" was also recorded July 10, 1963 with vocal by Ann Bogan. Tammi's vocal was recorded October 25, 1965. HMOMD was the b-side of "I Can't Believe You Love Me". It was also the b-side of "Your Precious Love", with Marvin added to Tammi's exsiting track.
    I thought of something else. It's interesting that Tammi Terrell re-recorded songs that had been given to Ann Bogan. When Tammi became ill and couldn't complete her tour with Marvin Gaye, Ann Bogan filled in for Tammi on a few dates. Harvey Fuqua obviously heard some things in both Ann & Tammi's voices that were similar. You listen to both and you can hear they had similar styles and ranges.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 10-21-2010 at 07:49 PM.

  12. #12
    The booklet didn't say whether Bogan's vocal still exists because the annotation writer didn't know. ("Whereof we cannot know, thereof we should keep silent" - Wittgenstein.) Ann recorded her vocal on a three track tape, but the tape was copied onto an eight track tape before T. Montgomery (as she's described on the tape filing card) added her vocal. I would say that it's likely that Ann's version is still there on the original tape, and the esteemed compilers of the Cellarful series might like to bear that in mind.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    SI thought of something else. It's interesting that Tammi Terrell re-recorded songs that had been given to Ann Bogan. When Tammi became ill and couldn't complete her tour with Marvin Gaye, Ann Bogan filled in for Tammi on a few dates. Harvey Fuqua obviously heard something in both Ann & Tammi's voices that was similar. You listen to both and you can hear they had similar styles and ranges.
    Ann performing with Marvin for a few dates, was one of those trivia facts that I had forgotten I knew. Thanks for jogging my memory. I did find it very interesting that Tammi had cut two songs originally intended for Ann, but I don't know Ann's voice well enough to compare. I mostly know her from The Marvelettes.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    The booklet didn't say whether Bogan's vocal still exists because the annotation writer didn't know. ("Whereof we cannot know, thereof we should keep silent" - Wittgenstein.) Ann recorded her vocal on a three track tape, but the tape was copied onto an eight track tape before T. Montgomery (as she's described on the tape filing card) added her vocal. I would say that it's likely that Ann's version is still there on the original tape, and the esteemed compilers of the Cellarful series might like to bear that in mind.
    I agree. That was my guess, that Ann's version would likely still be around, and then my thought was also that if it were it would be an excellent candidate for a future volume of Cellarful. When I stated the "booklet didn't say" I didn't mean to imply it should have, only that it didn't and I had no further information. I say this because I am incredibly grateful for the extensive annotation in the Tammi set. I enjoy knowing/understanding the chronology of an artist's recordings. From the info you provided I was able to make a playlists of Tammi's Motown solos chronologically. It was very revealing - to me. I had wanted to do the same with her duets with Marvin and was disappointed "The Complete Duets" was not properly annotated. So thank you again for your hard work. It is appreciated.

  15. #15
    Wouldn't this be a diamond in the rough?

  16. #16
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    A few of the Motown 1115 singles "escaped", but I doubt that any were ever sold retail in shops. I looked for it for 40 years and never found it. I have most of the Motown singles to 1970, including The Andantes, and once had the Frank Wilson in my possession, the Majestics and Downbeats on VIP, Stevie Wonder Tamla 108. I've never seen Motown 1115, other than a black and white DJ with "Oh What a Good Man He Is" on both sides. It may be more common than The Andantes and Frank Wilson, but it's dead rare. I never saw one with "There Are Things" on it up for sale at any price, let alone the "relatively cheap" price you refer to. Of course, it would be less than the Frank Wilson, Andantes, and Patrice Holloway. But, I bet I couldn't afford it.
    Last edited by robb_k; 10-21-2010 at 11:40 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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Size:  21.1 KB
    A few of the Motown 1115 singles "escaped", but I doubt that any were ever sold retail in shops. I looked for it for 40 years and never found it. I have most of the Motown singles to 1970, including The Andantes, and once had the Frank Wilson in my possession, the Majestics and Downbeats on VIP, Stevie Wonder Tamla 108. I've never seen Motown 1115, other than a black and white DJ with "Oh What a Good Man He Is" on both sides. It may be more common than The Andantes and Frank Wilson, but it's dead rare. I never saw one with "There Are Things" on it up for sale at any price, let alone the "relatively cheap" price you refer to. Of course, it would be less than the Frank Wilson, Andantes, and Patrice Holloway. But, I bet I couldn't afford it.



    S'funny - why suggest I'm saying it was released to the Shops?

    Have seen copies of this for sale through Northern Soul dealers over here quite often.
    Mine, like most I've seen, is on the Maps label Motown and is a genuine Motown pressing. Never seen a white label demo.

    Perhaps given the Northern Scene in the UK and its plethora of specialist dealers who have (back in the day) scoured the one stops for dusty boxes, it's easier to obtain in the UK than in the US......and that's why 1115 is nowhere near the price of the Andantes etc

    Seems to me that a disc becomes rarer if one doesn't have it? Patrice Holloway on VIP - now that's probably rarer than the Frank Wilson or the Andantes! And given you had one of the latter there would seem to be more copies of that about than is generally thought. There are several known over this side of the pond including mine.

    What I also consider rare are the Anna 45 by Letha Jones (and having heard it it is probably one of the best on the label) and even more so, the Fidelitones on Aladdin. But copies DO exist. My one remaining big wish in respect of known released material is that before my other ear packs up I get to hear the both sides of the Fidelitones single.

    I'm still intrigued to learn if the Letha Jones was indeed pressed twice with different b sides. It's so unfindable that I cannot for the life of me imagine why 2 different pressings may have been made. Black Clouds is the listed side I have not heard.

    I would be interested to learn more about Motown 45 "Test Pressings". I have a couple. The first looks similar to that bootlegged Chris Clark DILYDID on VIP. A white label, rubber stamped with handwritten details of what's on the disc. One I have is the Twisting Kings from Motown, another Gladys Knight from Soul. I also have a much later one which is the proposed Leon Ware release "Comfort" on Motown, but that is much later and different in appearance with only the label name and a matrix number written on - this one also plays same both sides.

    Anyone got any others?

  18. #18
    like fatmaninthethirdrow, I also have a copy of the Tammi on M1115 - must have picked it up 15 or so years ago from a northern soul dealer record list here in the UK - paid something like 6 for it at the time. Can't imagine it can be that rare if I got a copy for that price.
    Last edited by psychedelic jacques; 10-22-2010 at 07:40 AM.

  19. #19
    Can someone scan a copy of the 45 for us I would like to see it. Thanks.

  20. #20
    Difficult 45 to find. I Have a copy & I have uploaded it on youtube. It's the only 45 on there. Matrix & pressing plant are stamped into the runout groove. Courtesy of The Motown Singles Collection(1967) (Paraphrased): " Some Motown Discographies show this single as unissued, according to Motown archives the 45 was released on Oct 5th 1967 , on the 14th of Oct, Tammi collapsed on stage, of a brain tumour. Motown then recalled the 45. It is thought that some were released once Tammi left hospital?. John Manship also has it listed in his Guide.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    I thought of something else. It's interesting that Tammi Terrell re-recorded songs that had been given to Ann Bogan. When Tammi became ill and couldn't complete her tour with Marvin Gaye, Ann Bogan filled in for Tammi on a few dates. Harvey Fuqua obviously heard some things in both Ann & Tammi's voices that were similar. You listen to both and you can hear they had similar styles and ranges.
    Wouldn't Ann have been a Marvelette by the time Tammi became too sick to perform? Did she pull double duty?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    Wouldn't Ann have been a Marvelette by the time Tammi became too sick to perform? Did she pull double duty?
    It took a while for the Marvelettes to find a replacement for Gladys. I think Ann might have stepped in sometime in 1968, so she could have filled in for Tammi before then.

    I don't think Ann's stint with Marvin lasted too long. One book said that she was a gospel girl and would start shouting across the stage making the more relaxed Marvin look silly.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by keith_hughes View Post
    The booklet didn't say whether Bogan's vocal still exists because the annotation writer didn't know. ("Whereof we cannot know, thereof we should keep silent" - Wittgenstein.) Ann recorded her vocal on a three track tape, but the tape was copied onto an eight track tape before T. Montgomery (as she's described on the tape filing card) added her vocal. I would say that it's likely that Ann's version is still there on the original tape, and the esteemed compilers of the Cellarful series might like to bear that in mind.
    Update: Ann's version of There Are Things was included on the release Baby I've Got It - More Motown Girls a few years back!

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    It took a while for the Marvelettes to find a replacement for Gladys. I think Ann might have stepped in sometime in 1968, so she could have filled in for Tammi before then.

    I don't think Ann's stint with Marvin lasted too long. One book said that she was a gospel girl and would start shouting across the stage making the more relaxed Marvin look silly.
    I thought that was Barbara Randolph that was too over the top for Marvin Gaye. But now we know that at least three singers filled in for Tammi Terrell: Ann B, Barbara Randolph and Brenda Holloway. I actually ran across of Marvin and Brenda performing on stage together! What I wouldn't have given to see that concert!!!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I thought that was Barbara Randolph that was too over the top for Marvin Gaye. But now we know that at least three singers filled in for Tammi Terrell: Ann B, Barbara Randolph and Brenda Holloway. I actually ran across of Marvin and Brenda performing on stage together! What I wouldn't have given to see that concert!!!
    Maxine Brown and Carla Thomas filled in as well.

  26. #26
    Didn't I read somewhere that "Hold Me Oh My Darling" was conceived as a duet for Ann Bogan and Harvey Fuqua?

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    Didn't I read somewhere that "Hold Me Oh My Darling" was conceived as a duet for Ann Bogan and Harvey Fuqua?
    DFTMC has the Marvin & Tammi track as being overdubbed on Ann Bogan's version. I would love to hear it.

  28. #28
    I thought I would add photos of this 45 to the thread since they were requested years ago and so they would be included for posterity. I've had 2 copies of Motown 1115. Interestingly both were "holed or drilled" discount copies, and both shared the obvious distinction of having a different shade of blue on the labels on each side. They must have been pressed at ARP in Owosso at the same time using the 2 different color labels. I only have one copy in my archive now, using one for $100 in trade a couple years ago. I was also elated last year to find a WLP of Motown 1115 for "What A Good Man He Is", same song on both sides. In my 8 years of collecting Motown records I had never seen one before or since, and I was the only bidder on it if I remember correctly. It was certainly something that I would have expected to see much more interest than it did. That was great for me though, I'm glad some items slip through the cracks on Ebay!
    Darin
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  29. #29
    Darin, Thanks for sharing, Randy

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    I thought of something else. It's interesting that Tammi Terrell re-recorded songs that had been given to Ann Bogan. When Tammi became ill and couldn't complete her tour with Marvin Gaye, Ann Bogan filled in for Tammi on a few dates. Harvey Fuqua obviously heard some things in both Ann & Tammi's voices that were similar. You listen to both and you can hear they had similar styles and ranges.
    This song always sounded like it was not finished by way it faded out and the way Tammi's vocal ends the way it did!

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    I agree. That was my guess, that Ann's version would likely still be around, and then my thought was also that if it were it would be an excellent candidate for a future volume of Cellarful. When I stated the "booklet didn't say" I didn't mean to imply it should have, only that it didn't and I had no further information. I say this because I am incredibly grateful for the extensive annotation in the Tammi set. I enjoy knowing/understanding the chronology of an artist's recordings. From the info you provided I was able to make a playlists of Tammi's Motown solos chronologically. It was very revealing - to me. I had wanted to do the same with her duets with Marvin and was disappointed "The Complete Duets" was not properly annotated. So thank you again for your hard work. It is appreciated.
    And it only took another 10 years to finally have it released with COM 5!!!

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