Cindy Birdsong needs our help

**jobeterob** · 05-24-2013, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by rrussi

It is Berry Gordy who should help her financially!

Maybe Berry will help if someone can get to him personally with this. Or perhaps Diana. There won't be many others with a lot of resources who can provide significant amounts. But I'm sure there are people around Gordy and Ross preventing a lot of these kinds of requests from even getting through to them because there are probably a lot of requests from family, friends, former colleagues, fans, etc. and there are varying degrees of legitimacy.

I believe the market for a "Cindy" book wouldn't be that big anymore and it wouldn't be very significant at all unless she wanted to slag Ross, Wilson, the Supremes, Pedro, Berry etc. And that probably won't happen either.

**skooldem1** · 05-24-2013, 01:25 PM

What makes it even sadder is the fact that Cindy could have generated money by releasing this book, or touring when she had the opportunity.

**reese** · 05-24-2013, 01:38 PM

My heart goes out to Cindy, who from most accounts, seems to be someone that everybody likes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Diana already knows the situation and is helping out. I never read that there was any strain between she and Cindy. And Diana isn't the type to publicize her generosity, which I think is admirable.

**jobeterob** · 05-24-2013, 01:40 PM

I agree; there was a day when the "Cindy" book was anticipated and would have been a big deal and a big seller.......especially is she "talked".

And it is interesting: we haven't heard from Cindy about her situation. She may not even be pleased with the publicity being generated by others.

**midnightman** · 05-24-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

I agree; there was a day when the "Cindy" book was anticipated and would have been a big deal and a big seller.......especially is she "talked".

And it is interesting: we haven't heard from Cindy about her situation. She may not even be pleased with the publicity being generated by others.

I was thinking the same thing...

**rod_rick** · 05-24-2013, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I was thinking the same thing...

I understand how you both feel about CIndy not wanting her situation known, but I'd rather it be known so that she can get the assistance that she needs.
I know they say that Diana, and Berry should help out. Suzanne DePass should help also because without CIndy should would have never gotten into the Motown family.

**rrussi** · 05-24-2013, 07:40 PM

It is a damn shame that one of the top three groups in the world in the 60s [[the other two being the Beatles and the Rolling Stones) has a member [[and this is the second one!) that needs financial help. Does Cindy receive any royalties?

**captainjames** · 05-24-2013, 07:53 PM

Perhaps this will explain why she didn't attend Motown the Musical but please take heed before sending and make sure you understand where your money is going. Remember not only Berry, Diana and Mary may know about it and are already on it but Suzanne, Patti, Nona and Sarah are aware

**reese** · 05-24-2013, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by rrussi

It is a damn shame that one of the top three groups in the world in the 60s [[the other two being the Beatles and the Rolling Stones) has a member [[and this is the second one!) that needs financial help. Does Cindy receive any royalties?

Supposedly she signed them away either in 1972 or 1976.

**rrussi** · 05-24-2013, 09:18 PM

And if she didn't, she probably did so without an attorney. There are too many of these former Motown stars living in close to poverty and Berry should find this embarrassing considering he is worth mulit-millions.

**luke** · 05-24-2013, 09:54 PM

Though I dont know that Berry should be responsible for all the needs of all former Motown singers[[my former employers sure as hell dont help me out) , Cindy Birdsong has been so gracious to so many people and sure helped out the Supremes and Motown so well Id hope Ms DePasse and others would come to her assistance. I know for a fact that Mary Wilson has gone to bat for Cindy in the past.

**midnightman** · 05-24-2013, 09:55 PM

The Supremes weren't allow to be part of the creative process [[writing and producing) so are we really surprised? I agree, Cindy has been more than gracious. Speaking of former band mates, remember Cindy also had a 10-year history with Patti LaBelle and the members of Labelle [[when they were the Bluebelles), I wonder if Patti knows too. It's more than just a Motown thing with Cindy. She has a rich and varied history.

**rrussi** · 05-24-2013, 10:45 PM

I agree with all above, it is just that so many former Motown stars haven't faired so well. Maybe they were never given or paid what they should have been when they were hitmakers. I know Motown controlled their income from bookings too. I do hope she can recover from whatever it is with her health conditions.

**skooldem1** · 05-24-2013, 10:51 PM

One can only wonder how the money she would have earned touring with Diana had she negotiated directly with promoters, instead of having someone else do it for her, would have helped her. To bad the deal fell apart.

**midnightman** · 05-24-2013, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

One can only wonder how the money she would have earned touring with Diana had she negotiated directly with promoters, instead of having someone else do it for her, would have helped her. To bad the deal fell apart.

Makes you wonder, don't it? *sigh*

revvy · 05-25-2013, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by skooldem1

One can only wonder how the money she would have earned touring with Diana had she negotiated directly with promoters, instead of having someone else do it for her, would have helped her. To bad the deal fell apart.

From what I understand of the situation, it was the promoters TNA/SFX and specifically Arthur Fogel who were rotten, greedy and bullish to the core. Cindy, Mary, Jean and Susaye all concur they were treated VERY badly in the Return to Love negotiation process. That tour was a bloody mess from the very start and nobody came out looking good.

**captainjames** · 05-25-2013, 08:06 PM

I am sure a lot of folks are aware as I mentioned earlier. Berry, Mary, Diana, Nona, Patti, Sarah, Charles and Cindy's brothers and sisters.

**luke** · 05-25-2013, 11:07 PM

Would all Motowners have qualified for Social Security and Medicare?

**milven** · 05-25-2013, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Would all Motowners have qualified for Social Security and Medicare?

Yes, they qualify for both .

**milven** · 05-25-2013, 11:29 PM

ASCAP also has a pension fund. Don't know how that works.

Many people, like Cindy and Flo sign away their royalties for an immediate cash payout up front. It may look like a lot at the time, but it is very little when compared to what they are giving up.

**kenneth** · 05-26-2013, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by milven

ASCAP also has a pension fund. Don't know how that works.

Many people, like Cindy and Flo sign away their royalties for an immediate cash payout up front. It may look like a lot at the time, but it is very little when compared to what they are giving up.

I think Jobete was a BMI company but I'm sure they would have the same.

I was surprised when it was discussed here on SDF previously that Cindy would have signed away her royalties, especially after her seeing what had happened with Florence. I mean, Cindy had been in the business a long time by then so it's surprising she wouldn't have had legal advice advising her against doing that at the time.

I do agree that we should be cautious extending charity in these circumstances. I'd worry about how much would actually get to Cindy, and I also wonder why she would be in such dire straits, frankly, though I don't want to seem cynical or uncaring.

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by revvy

From what I understand of the situation, it was the promoters TNA/SFX and specifically Arthur Fogel who were rotten, greedy and bullish to the core. Cindy, Mary, Jean and Susaye all concur they were treated VERY badly in the Return to Love negotiation process. That tour was a bloody mess from the very start and nobody came out looking good.

I probably shouldn't have been surprised. I can only imagine how they treated Diana, Lynda and Scherrie... it also seems to me looking back that Mary's whole thing wasn't about Diana but TNA/SFX/Live Nation themselves. Cindy possibly had that same problem. Diana almost never recovered from the tour's failure from what I read.

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

I think Jobete was a BMI company but I'm sure they would have the same.

I was surprised when it was discussed here on SDF previously that Cindy would have signed away her royalties, especially after her seeing what had happened with Florence. I mean, Cindy had been in the business a long time by then so it's surprising she wouldn't have had legal advice advising her against doing that at the time.

I do agree that we should be cautious extending charity in these circumstances. I'd worry about how much would actually get to Cindy, and I also wonder why she would be in such dire straits, frankly, though I don't want to seem cynical or uncaring.

Cindy actually left the Bluebelles at a time she wasn't even allowed to and their manager almost about sued Berry Gordy after learning of what was going on [[Patti and them had no clue then). And even after they decided not to sue, Cindy would say she failed to tell Patti, Nona and Sarah about her secret performances with Diana and Mary when Flo was on leave. Then when it was time to "replace" Flo, Patti, Nona and Sarah found out like everyone else and was so pissed they didn't talk to Cindy for like a year. Cindy finally got to Patti and Patti was all like "you hurt us, you should've told us, I would've been cool with it" and Cindy basically apologized and told her to tell Nona and Sarah she was sorry too but they were less forgiving than Patti was.

So I think Cindy was unfortunately really clueless. And Motown being more experienced didn't actually help matters.

Did you know the song "Can I Speak to You Before You Go to Hollywood" by Labelle was about Cindy?

**rrussi** · 05-26-2013, 10:13 AM

Again, none of the Motown acts made the money they should have, or should I say none of them received the money they should have.

**kenneth** · 05-26-2013, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by midnightman

Cindy actually left the Bluebelles at a time she wasn't even allowed to and their manager almost about sued Berry Gordy after learning of what was going on [[Patti and them had no clue then). And even after they decided not to sue, Cindy would say she failed to tell Patti, Nona and Sarah about her secret performances with Diana and Mary when Flo was on leave. Then when it was time to "replace" Flo, Patti, Nona and Sarah found out like everyone else and was so pissed they didn't talk to Cindy for like a year. Cindy finally got to Patti and Patti was all like "you hurt us, you should've told us, I would've been cool with it" and Cindy basically apologized and told her to tell Nona and Sarah she was sorry too but they were less forgiving than Patti was.

So I think Cindy was unfortunately really clueless. And Motown being more experienced didn't actually help matters.

Did you know the song "Can I Speak to You Before You Go to Hollywood" by Labelle was about Cindy?

Thanks for sharing that information. I'm not familiar with that song but I'm going to try to find it on YouTube. Thanks again.

**milven** · 05-26-2013, 11:27 AM

**kenneth** · 05-26-2013, 11:38 AM

Thank you Milven.

revvy · 05-26-2013, 11:40 AM

I thought I remember reading that the song was certainly written with Cindy in mind, but also about other people in show business that the girls knew as kids and felt that they had "sold out" because they were making it and becoming affected by the money, the fame and the other perks of show business.

The song itself has a great blending of the 3 voices at the end. That's what made Labelle and even the Bluebells with Cindy so special.

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by revvy

I thought I remember reading that the song was certainly written with Cindy in mind, but also about other people in show business that the girls knew as kids and felt that they had "sold out" because they were making it and becoming affected by the money, the fame and the other perks of show business.

The song itself has a great blending of the 3 voices at the end. That's what made Labelle and even the Bluebells with Cindy so special.

Yeah Patti did say other folks like Elton John [[who backed the Bluebelles when they toured the UK back in the day), the Rolling Stones [[whom I think they opened for in the '60s and again in the '70s) and, I think, the Supremes themselves were inspirations behind the song.

But yeah it was definitely a special song. Labelle was a rare group. They brought the church to rock and roll in ways hadn't done since Aretha.

**R. Mark Desjardins** · 05-26-2013, 01:30 PM

Patti Labelle & The Bluebelles completely re-imagined themselves as Labelle. I've read that after auditioning possible replacements for Cindy, and a guy in drag tried out, they decided to remain a trio. I dug their two early Warner Brothers label records and by the time they were signed to RCA with "Pressure Cookin'" which included "Can I Speak To You Before You Go To Hollywood," their new sound was intact. "Lady Marmalade" on the Epic label is what made the group explode on the music charts. I would have loved to have seen them perform live in their heyday. I've heard they had a short run in an off Broadway production entitled "Nile Women," but have not yet found any information about that.

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by R. Mark Desjardins

Patti Labelle & The Bluebelles completely re-imagined themselves as Labelle. I've read that after auditioning possible replacements for Cindy, and a guy in drag tried out, they decided to remain a trio. I dug their two early Warner Brothers label records and by the time they were signed to RCA with "Pressure Cookin'" which included "Can I Speak To You Before You Go To Hollywood," their new sound was intact. "Lady Marmalade" on the Epic label is what made the group explode on the music charts. I would have loved to have seen them perform live in their heyday. I've heard they had a short run onBroadway in a production entitled "Nile Women," but have never found too much information on the net about that.

Apparently Labelle has done a lot of stuff that has never been covered in the press. I would think Nona would write her own autobiography about all the stuff they experienced during the six years they were "Labelle". There was obviously more history to them then just for "Lady Marmalade".

**luke** · 05-26-2013, 09:10 PM

And its kind of been glossed over that their break-up was extremely intense; I thought I read that Nile Women was going to be their next record but they broke up.

revvy · 05-26-2013, 09:19 PM

I still find it odd that when Patti, Nona, Sarah and Cindy were inducted into the R & B Hall of Fame [[at least I think that's what it was), there was no footage, recordings or photos that surfaced of this once-in-a-lifetime reunion. There has to be SOMETHING out there!

http://www.myspace.com/jimbagley/blog/248222902

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by luke

And its kind of been glossed over that their break-up was extremely intense; I thought I read that Nile Women was going to be their next record but they broke up.

Patti said they were working on an album titled Shaman but claimed they could no longer agree on a musical path. Patti had always said Nona favored the group going into harder rock and roll, Sarah was thinking of going to do disco [[which both Patti and Nona hated with a passion) and Patti wanted to go back to R&B ballads [[odd enough most of her solo hits have been ballads or mid-tempo hits, i.e., "If Only You Knew", "On My Own", etc.). Patti said that the night of their final concert, Nona had gotten a nervous breakdown and tore up her dressing room and banged her head on the mirror and had to be sent into a hospital. Patti agrees their breakup was nasty. Somehow they managed to retain their friendship after the split!

**midnightman** · 05-26-2013, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by revvy

I still find it odd that when Patti, Nona, Sarah and Cindy were inducted into the R & B Hall of Fame [[at least I think that's what it was), there was no footage, recordings or photos that surfaced of this once-in-a-lifetime reunion. There has to be SOMETHING out there!

http://www.myspace.com/jimbagley/blog/248222902

You mean the Rhythm & Blues Foundation? Yeah, Lauryn Hill gave them the award, I think. JET covered it and there's a picture of Patti, Nona, Sarah and Cindy together accepting the award. As far as I know there was only one photo of them.

**luke** · 05-26-2013, 10:18 PM

There have been some reports that their reunion was tense at times. Sarah has also said some things were not done the way she she wanted. Isaw their opening night show at the Apollo and Patti was quite weird. Nona kind of took over when the sound collapsed and her energy amazing.

**reese** · 05-26-2013, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

You mean the Rhythm & Blues Foundation? Yeah, Lauryn Hill gave them the award, I think. JET covered it and there's a picture of Patti, Nona, Sarah and Cindy together accepting the award. As far as I know there was only one photo of them.

In addition to the JET photo, brief footage of them singing YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE was shown during one of Patti's OPRAH appearances.

**midnightman** · 05-27-2013, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by luke

There have been some reports that their reunion was tense at times. Sarah has also said some things were not done the way she she wanted. Isaw their opening night show at the Apollo and Patti was quite weird. Nona kind of took over when the sound collapsed and her energy amazing.

I did hear Patti was actually acting real weird during the Labelle reunion. Seems Nona was the one to keep the show going. Patti must've been going through one of her diabetic episodes during the tour, which I don't think was real long. I just saw a recent video of Patti and Sarah doing "Lady Marmalade" together.

**midnightman** · 05-27-2013, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by reese

In addition to the JET photo, brief footage of them singing YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE was shown during one of Patti's OPRAH appearances.

Must've been in 2000. They got the award in 1999.

**captainjames** · 05-27-2013, 09:47 AM

Cindy was and still is active in the ministry and I am sure the church will reach out to her if needed.

One of the last performances you mentioned with Labelle [[not the reunion) was in Cincinnati, Ohio and they were really weird on stage. To this day I think Patti and Nona are cool with Cindy. I have not heard Sarah say one way or another but I am sure she is ok with it by now and that Motown told her to shut up or she would not be in.

**jillfoster** · 05-27-2013, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by luke

Though I dont know that Berry should be responsible for all the needs of all former Motown singers[[my former employers sure as hell dont help me out) , Cindy Birdsong has been so gracious to so many people and sure helped out the Supremes and Motown so well Id hope Ms DePasse and others would come to her assistance. I know for a fact that Mary Wilson has gone to bat for Cindy in the past.

The big difference, of course, is that your former employers don't continue to make money off of your work 20, 30, and 40 years later.

**luke** · 05-27-2013, 12:17 PM

Now I dont know about all that Jill lol but I heat ya!

**midnightman** · 05-27-2013, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

Cindy was and still is active in the ministry and I am sure the church will reach out to her if needed.

One of the last performances you mentioned with Labelle [[not the reunion) was in Cincinnati, Ohio and they were really weird on stage. To this day I think Patti and Nona are cool with Cindy. I have not heard Sarah say one way or another but I am sure she is ok with it by now and that Motown told her to shut up or she would not be in.

I didn't know which of the other members say they were cool with Cindy besides Patti. I did read Nona forgave her and it was Sarah that was the holdout. So it was in Cincinnati? I thought it was Baltimore. That's what I recalled Patti saying anyway. I forgot Cindy's still a minister in L.A.

**jobeterob** · 05-27-2013, 12:51 PM

Jill: I'm not sure that Berry is making anything off of these artists anymore. Universal is though. And it appears they are paying royalties to very few of the artists that appeared on the tracks; most of them signed the royalties away for a lump sum years back.

And Berry doesn't appear to even make it off the songs anymore because he doesn't own Jobete anymore either ~ or not much of it.

**reese** · 05-27-2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by midnightman

I didn't know which of the other members say they were cool with Cindy besides Patti. I did read Nona forgave her and it was Sarah that was the holdout. So it was in Cincinnati? I thought it was Baltimore. That's what I recalled Patti saying anyway. I forgot Cindy's still a minister in L.A.

I always read that Nona is [[was) the holdout. In an interview, Cindy mentioned that at their R&B Foundation reunion, Nona hardly spoke.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 05-27-2013, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by reese

I always read that Nona is [[was) the holdout. In an interview, Cindy mentioned that at their R&B Foundation reunion, Nona hardly spoke.

From what I've read, the breakup of Labelle was pretty intense. These women had been through really hard times and had stuck together and suddenly they get a hit record and things changed.
I imagine Cindy Birdsong leaving the way she did must have hurt. But Patti Labelle has said if she would have known, she would have understood, because why not go for better when you have struggled? Patti and the Bluebelles struggled, they ate hot dogs and nasty sardines on the road. Have any of Labelle commented on Cindy Birdsong's situation?

**reese** · 05-27-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr

From what I've read, the breakup of Labelle was pretty intense. These women had been through really hard times and had stuck together and suddenly they get a hit record and things changed.
I imagine Cindy Birdsong leaving the way she did must have hurt. But Patti Labelle has said sif she would have known, she would have understood, because why not go for better when you have struggled? Have any of Labelle commented on Cindy Birdsong's situation?

All I've heard about Cindy's situation has been from this thread. I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere.

**midnightman** · 05-27-2013, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr

From what I've read, the breakup of Labelle was pretty intense. These women had been through really hard times and had stuck together and suddenly they get a hit record and things changed.
I imagine Cindy Birdsong leaving the way she did must have hurt. But Patti Labelle has said sif she would have known, she would have understood, because why not go for better when you have struggled? Have any of Labelle commented on Cindy Birdsong's situation?

"Lady Marmalade" definitely bruised their egos from what I read. Now that you reminded me, reese, yeah it was Nona, not Sarah. As far as I know, nobody from Labelle has spoken about this supposed illness. Odd, the Motown associates have said something but they haven't?

**captainjames** · 05-27-2013, 04:57 PM

All three women were in a rif over it from the beginning - Nona came around and is no longer throwing wigs down the hallway and is even friends with Mary Wilson now.

**StuBass1** · 05-27-2013, 05:49 PM

Janie Bradford is a true angel. If she is assisting in raising funds [[through her foundation) for this or any other cause, you can rest assured that those funds and donations will go directly where indicated.Not that it's necessary, but I will personally vouch for Ms Bradfrords integrity and intentions. I have had dealings with Janie Bradford and she is a true inspiration to myself and many others.

Stu