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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillfoster View Post
    All three of those were 1979/1980. Ross had that many disco hits during the same period, try to find some examples from 1983/84. In the downfall of any genre, there are always going to be "stragglers".
    Let's see now: Atomic Dog by George Clinton, Dance Floor by Zapp, Early in The Morning by the Gap Band, Juicy Fruit by Mtume, Cold Blooded by Rick James. And those are just the number one hits. I didn't get into the Funk jams were rocked in the clubs that didn't hit the top ten. Please keep in mind that Funk wasn't just a genre. It was an musical outgrowth of Black experience. As long as the experience is alive, the music produced from that experience will live as well.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillfoster View Post
    Oh, I agree... but I was challenging him to name funk hits from 83/84 to support his claim that funk outlasted disco. I think they both lived about the same.
    Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?

    Extend it to 1987:

    -SOS Band - "Just Be Good To Me"
    - SOS Band - "Just the Way You Like It"
    - SOS Band - "Borrowed Love"
    - SOS Band [[feat. Alexander O' Neil) - "The Finest"
    - Cherrelle - "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On"
    - Alexander O' Neal [[should be feat. Cherrelle) "Innocent"
    - Cherrelle & Alexander O' Neal - "Saturday Love"
    - Alexander O' Neal & Cherrelle - "Never Knew Love Like This"
    - Alexander O' Neal - "Fake
    - Alexander O' Neal - "Criticize"
    - Alexander O' Neal - "All True Man"
    - Cherrelle - "Affair"
    - Morris Day "Fishnet"

    LOVE that keytar!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngroove View Post
    Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?

    Extend it to 1987:

    -SOS Band - "Just Be Good To Me"
    - SOS Band - "Just the Way You Like It"
    - SOS Band - "Borrowed Love"
    - SOS Band [[feat. Alexander O' Neil) - "The Finest"
    - Cherrelle - "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On"
    - Alexander O' Neal [[should be feat. Cherrelle) "Innocent"
    - Cherrelle & Alexander O' Neal - "Saturday Love"
    - Alexander O' Neal & Cherrelle - "Never Knew Love Like This"
    - Alexander O' Neal - "Fake
    - Alexander O' Neal - "Criticize"
    - Alexander O' Neal - "All True Man"
    - Cherrelle - "Affair"
    - Morris Day "Fishnet"

    LOVE that keytar!
    Cameo, Rick James, ConFunkShun, Prince, Midnight Star, The Time and various other Funk bands kept the music alive way past Disco's shelf life.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Nope. Is Does Your Mother Know That You're Out" by ABBA disco? You can dance to it...

    The last bona-fide funk hit was probably "Word Up" or "Candy" by Cameo.
    What about "Da Butt" by E.U.? "Jerk Out" by The Time? "HouseQuake" and "Sign O The Times" by Prince?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyfunk View Post
    Cameo, Rick James, ConFunkShun, Prince, Midnight Star, The Time and various other Funk bands kept the music alive way past Disco's shelf life.
    Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
    Last edited by Ngroove; 03-01-2013 at 12:51 PM.

  6. #56
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    Some people won't say "soulful" and "disco" in the same sentence. I agree that a track by the Village People and a track by the Trammps had a different feel but I still feel that they are both disco. Enjoyed discussing with you. IMO this song is soulful, funky yet disco

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyfunk View Post
    What about "Da Butt" by E.U.? "Jerk Out" by The Time? "HouseQuake" and "Sign O The Times" by Prince?
    Forgot about "Housequake"!

    I call EU "go-go" music, a genre that was popular particularly in the D.C. area in the 70s and 80s. It was given nationwide exposure primarily by bands like Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers [["We The People", "Bustin' Loose"). By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by glencro View Post
    Some people won't say "soulful" and "disco" in the same sentence. I agree that a track by the Village People and a track by the Trammps had a different feel but I still feel that they are both disco.
    Sure they were!

    There are two things at work here: Some people believe that if the song had the soulful, even sweaty, gruffy male vocal, it can't be disco. The music was powerful and driving just enough to be...ahem...manly. It has a strong bass line. It has a blaring brass section. The keyboards recalled the Blaxploitation sound of the early 70s. The only thing "disco" about "Disco Inferno", they may say, are the strings. The Village People's music had a different rhythm pattern. The secret of the difference between disco and R&B/funk is always in the rhythm section, not in the vocals. But, most people [[non-musicians) tend to focus on the vocals.

  9. #59
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    As I have always said..... The LABEL of "Disco" is just a commercial and in effect a GENERIC label for many types of DANCEABLE music ,that already existed. One example is "NOW THAT WE FOUND LOVE". The song itself is constant in content ,yet the O'JAY's version [[the original) has been considered as Philly R&B and Disco and the Third World version is considered REGGAE and Disco. W.T.F.??? DISCO is the only "genre" that can claim [[lump) recordings made prior to it's [[DISCO)"creation" ,as "DISCO" which came into being in 75. One example---- Kendricks "GIRL YOU NEED A CHANGE OF MIND" ,from 72. Burned up the dance floor in 72 ,and we didn't call it DISCO , until 75-76 , all of a sudden it's a DISCO classic? W.T.F.?


    IMO ,"DISCO" is a bad word ,given too much attention and a stigma given to many recordings ,causing them to be attached to a FAD that's cartoonish in nature and simply just a victim of commercial and pimpification of good music ,R&B and FUNK ,LATIN and JAZZ in nature. That is shown in the many examples that all of you have shown in naming the many tracks in the above posts. Bottom line is that it ,"DISCO" ,applies to certain recordings more so than others , and that application is subjective to individual opinion , however ,one thing remains , no two things remain constant throughout the genre they call "DISCO" and that is R&B and THE FUNK. However way you mix it they both MUST be and are there.
    Last edited by daddyacey; 03-02-2013 at 04:01 AM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyfunk View Post
    Let's see now: Atomic Dog by George Clinton, Dance Floor by Zapp, Early in The Morning by the Gap Band, Juicy Fruit by Mtume, Cold Blooded by Rick James. And those are just the number one hits. I didn't get into the Funk jams were rocked in the clubs that didn't hit the top ten. Please keep in mind that Funk wasn't just a genre. It was an musical outgrowth of Black experience. As long as the experience is alive, the music produced from that experience will live as well.
    Timmy, I would add "Rock It" - Herbie Hancock
    "Smurf"
    "Ain't Nobody" - Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
    "Mr. Groove" & "Cutie Pie" - Al Hudson and One Way
    "Pac Jam" - Jonzun Crew

  11. #61
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    Hello again, Glencro, Daddyacey and all.

    This thread is becoming more and more interesting. The track by Tata Vega made me think on the one by Teena Marie, "I Need Your Lovin'"...

    Daddyacey. Here in Spain, along the second half of the 70's and the first half of the 80's there was a great STIGMA with "afroamerican music" in general. There was only two categories from the point of view of the criticals and the general public who "heard PROGRESSIVE ROCK" [[!!??): "There's only Jazz, Blues, James Brown, Aretha and Otis in one extreme and simply brain less dance-disco music in the other whiteout a grey - scale". And everybody who heard "brain - less / reiterative rhythm dance music, of course is a BRAIN LESS person". I've been stigmatized when i owned a soul music program in a little radio station on my town. And by my friends [[who heard "progressive rock", folk, John Mayall,... They called me "hortera" [[= "freaky") for the reason I heard Philly Sound, Motown, and Curtis and The Crusaders!

    The label "disco" have been doing a very HURT in many musicians; as the example I put before [[RCA and the logo "Soul Explosion" and little after "Disco Explosion"), there was a time in the middle - late 70's when the label "Disco" / "Especial para Discotecas" was on the front cover of 45's by The Crusaders [["Stomp Buck & Dance"), Gil Scott-Heron [["Johannesburg"), Joe Tex [["Rub Down"); Return To Forever [["Nite Sprite") and MIKE OLDFIELD [[so admired by the progressive rock lovers and also by myself) [["family Man" and "Guilty"). Of course, those "progressive rock lovers" don't admit that Mike Oldfield made no one disco record.

    Theres also one spanish author who writes a "Rock History" on two separate volumes and says that "In the beginning of the 70's, Barry White, MFSB, G & H and the artists they "MANIPULATED", created a vulgar kind of funk exclusively orientated to the dance floor, many good artists followed this movement and soul music was dead because this fact". He added also "some of the artists on the 70's as Rufus, Earth Wind & Fire, etc., were safe of this phenomena". Also, he talks very good about Hall & Oates and says as a "credential" and in the first place that they "DON'T HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WTH GAMBLE & HUFF, DESPITE THE FACT THEY'RE FROM PHILLY". I launched this book from the window of the train when i purchased it and was reading it backing to my home from Barcelona. These stupid people have contributed to stigmatizing many good afroamerican music in general and the music created in the "STIGMA" Sound Studios on particular.

    A great salute to you' all

  12. #62
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    Just puttin this out there:


  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillfoster View Post
    Just puttin this out there:
    Kinda makes me appreciate Ethel Merman's disco album

  14. #64
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    Thanks manny and jillfoster for your info. Acroos the globe "DISCO" is labeled as "Afroamerican Music" ,which is what "DISCO " was derived from. Just as "ROCK &ROLL" was and "RAP" was turned to "HIP-HOP was and so on and so on. HIP-HOP/RAP influenced GOSPEL is popular now, a big business. The lines of R&B/FUNK/POP have been blurred to an extreme degree because of a steady progression of commercial influence over the last 30 years starting at the "DISCO" era. Yes even JESUS has been DISCOFIED and HIP-HOPPED over the years. All of this has affected how we view music today ,along with social and techno changes. That's why the history of the genre ,[[R&B) should be taught and not generalized in programe's the way they are in the TV1 series. Detail is the key. Facts...

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    Kinda makes me appreciate Ethel Merman's disco album
    LMAO...OMG wow, as much as I want Jesus to lift me higher that was rough to get through. Now The Clark Sisters dabbled in a lil disco during the era and put a lil fire on it IMO

  16. #66
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    Love the Clark Sisters' songs! Yeah, Tammy Faye is a good singer, and has some great records... but that one ain't one of them! LOL

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngroove View Post
    Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
    It may not have been my favorite period of Funk, but the bands that I've listed definitely kept the genre alive when disco was all but a fleeting memory.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Forgot about "Housequake"!

    I call EU "go-go" music, a genre that was popular particularly in the D.C. area in the 70s and 80s. It was given nationwide exposure primarily by bands like Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers [["We The People", "Bustin' Loose"). By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.
    And what is Go-Go music but a branch of the Funk music genre. In the end, Go-Go IS the Funk.

  19. #69
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    Damn Right, T-Funk!! '88's Doin' Da Butt has always been my [[un)official end of the Funk era song before rap just completely dominated everything.

    I thought the show was pretty much dead on except for some of the minor details that have been listed here on the forum. Some things I'd like to add:

    In one of my very early posts on SDF, I mentioned that I thought Disco started with the PIR records of the early 70's. Bobby Eli schooled me that what MFSB was doing was Philly Soul.
    I got the impression from him and some of the other musicians involved with Gamble & Huff's productions, that they felt music was co-opted and repackaged and marketed to the mainstream public as Disco.

    That kind of blends with what I remember George Clinton saying about Disco at the time. Quotes like, " Disco will get on your last nerve" was his way of saying Disco was prepackaged music with out a personality. The music had no soul. I think the musicians at PIR were trying to say the same thing.

    In many ways I've always thought of the Saturday Night Fever phenomenum as being late to the party; the two minute warning before the end. From time to time I still hear rumblings about the Disco Demolition stunt at Cominsky Park in the summer of '79. Both Steve Dahl and Gerry Meier are still on the radio [[different formats, different stations) but that day really did change things. As for whether or not there was a racial component to Disco Demolition, of course there was, it was just one of a handful of reasons.

    For those of you who were not there, the Unsung piece was right when it says that Disco was everywhere in 78/79. It was all over the radio, commercials, TV shows, fashion. So, if you were a red-blooded lover of KISS, Rush, Aerosmith, ELO, YES, etc. you absolutely HATED Disco with a passion. These also tended to be the same people who couldn't dance if you put a gun to their heads, so just had no use for it. Add to this base, the homophobes, the racists and the sexists youths of the time and you have 70 thousand mostly white folks ready to blow up anything that reminded them of these outside groups. The fact that not just Disco records, but Motown, PIR and JB records were all thrown into the box that night is a testament to how wide-spread the hatred was.

    The funny thing was is that the music itself never died, but the marketing sure did. The very night of the demolition, Frankie Knuckles was already throwin' down some heavy duty parties at The Warehouse. In New York, rap had been on the streets for almost 3 years and
    Rapper's Delight was about month away from its release.

    Disco just morphed into House. Here in Chicago the Hot Mix 5, Micky "Mixin'" Oliver, Scott Seals, Kenny "Jamin'" Jayson, Farley "Funkin'" Keith and Ralphie "Rockin'" Rosario were playing House grooves on the WBMX every Saturday Night until the early 90's. They still pop up air occasionally. Over time, the beats at The Warehouse and later The Muzic Box got faster and faster and so Disco still lives to this day. It's just going by a variety of aliases.

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    BTW, Where's Tom Moulton on this?!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chidrummer View Post
    Damn Right, T-Funk!! '88's Doin' Da Butt has always been my [[un)official end of the Funk era song before rap just completely dominated everything.

    I thought the show was pretty much dead on except for some of the minor details that have been listed here on the forum. Some things I'd like to add:

    In one of my very early posts on SDF, I mentioned that I thought Disco started with the PIR records of the early 70's. Bobby Eli schooled me that what MFSB was doing was Philly Soul.
    I got the impression from him and some of the other musicians involved with Gamble & Huff's productions, that they felt music was co-opted and repackaged and marketed to the mainstream public as Disco.

    That kind of blends with what I remember George Clinton saying about Disco at the time. Quotes like, " Disco will get on your last nerve" was his way of saying Disco was prepackaged music with out a personality. The music had no soul. I think the musicians at PIR were trying to say the same thing.

    In many ways I've always thought of the Saturday Night Fever phenomenum as being late to the party; the two minute warning before the end. From time to time I still hear rumblings about the Disco Demolition stunt at Cominsky Park in the summer of '79. Both Steve Dahl and Gerry Meier are still on the radio [[different formats, different stations) but that day really did change things. As for whether or not there was a racial component to Disco Demolition, of course there was, it was just one of a handful of reasons.

    For those of you who were not there, the Unsung piece was right when it says that Disco was everywhere in 78/79. It was all over the radio, commercials, TV shows, fashion. So, if you were a red-blooded lover of KISS, Rush, Aerosmith, ELO, YES, etc. you absolutely HATED Disco with a passion. These also tended to be the same people who couldn't dance if you put a gun to their heads, so just had no use for it. Add to this base, the homophobes, the racists and the sexists youths of the time and you have 70 thousand mostly white folks ready to blow up anything that reminded them of these outside groups. The fact that not just Disco records, but Motown, PIR and JB records were all thrown into the box that night is a testament to how wide-spread the hatred was.

    The funny thing was is that the music itself never died, but the marketing sure did. The very night of the demolition, Frankie Knuckles was already throwin' down some heavy duty parties at The Warehouse. In New York, rap had been on the streets for almost 3 years and
    Rapper's Delight was about month away from its release.

    Disco just morphed into House. Here in Chicago the Hot Mix 5, Micky "Mixin'" Oliver, Scott Seals, Kenny "Jamin'" Jayson, Farley "Funkin'" Keith and Ralphie "Rockin'" Rosario were playing House grooves on the WBMX every Saturday Night until the early 90's. They still pop up air occasionally. Over time, the beats at The Warehouse and later The Muzic Box got faster and faster and so Disco still lives to this day. It's just going by a variety of aliases.
    This post deserves a standing ovation in terms of cogent and intelligent analysis. Not that the other posts weren't on target. But this post was dead on target. I cannot stand when people deny the racist component of that horrid disco demolition rally. Nile Rodgers at least had the guts to point out the supreme absence of black folks at that rally.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyfunk View Post
    And what is Go-Go music but a branch of the Funk music genre. In the end, Go-Go IS the Funk.
    I agree! It ain't no disco, that's for sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyfunk View Post
    This post deserves a standing ovation in terms of cogent and intelligent analysis. Not that the other posts weren't on target. But this post was dead on target. I cannot stand when people deny the racist component of that horrid disco demolition rally. Nile Rodgers at least had the guts to point out the supreme absence of black folks at that rally.
    I know there was a racial component to it. I was in my Freshman year of college when Disco was in full swing. It was a private school with a 99% white student population. We all got along for the most part until it came to the music! This was the fall of 1978 and many of the dudes in my dorm were into Rock and harder Rock! LOL! I remember Chic's "Le Freak" being played at a Halloween Party. It did not go over exceeding well with some at the party ,but I partied!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I know there was a racial component to it. I was in my Freshman year of college when Disco was in full swing. It was a private school with a 99% white student population. We all got along for the most part until it came to the music! This was the fall of 1978 and many of the dudes in my dorm were into Rock and harder Rock! LOL! I remember Chic's "Le Freak" being played at a Halloween Party. It did not go over exceeding well with some at the party ,but I partied!!!!
    Lots of whites are ashamed of the racist component That's why they deny it just as much as they deny that the tea party is racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Lots of whites are ashamed of the racist component That's why they deny it just as much as they deny that the tea party is racist.
    Racism is something to be ashamed of. It's stems from ignorance, but at the same time some people seem to have an inability to control it or themselves. They know it does not make sense but they go with it any way. I had not heard of a "tea party" until Obama became President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Racism is something to be ashamed of. It's stems from ignorance, but at the same time some people seem to have an inability to control it or themselves. They know it does not make sense but they go with it any way. I had not heard of a "tea party" until Obama became President.
    That's because there was no modern-day tea-party until he became president.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    The difference is in the bass line and the tempo. R&B tends to be a bit slower, and disco tends to have simple bass lines, where R&B has more elaborate and deliberate bass lines.

    Many people will argue that "Love Train" by The O'Jays, from 1972, is not disco [[probably because they like it ), but if you take off the vocals, as in Tom Moulton's remix, It's straight up disco, even though that's not what we called it back then.
    Hi, Soulster

    And if I made the mental effort of takin' off the instrumentation on "Love Train", the result I can "heard" is PURE GOSPEL

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    Why Thank You, kind sir. Just trying to tell it like it was.

    manny and soulster, this is the point I was trying to make. The sound of Love Train without the vocals is the sound of classic Philly Soul as played by MFSB with the string and horn arrangements by Bobby Martin.

    Parts of that sound: Mainly, Earl Young's drum pattern and the way Martin used brass & strings were just straight up "stolen" . Add an octave bass line [[think Car Wash) and you have the basic formula for every Disco tune ever made. The only thing that changed much was the singer[[s) and the guitar and keyboard parts.

    In my opinion, it's Bobby Martin who is never given proper credit for his massive contribution to the original sound of Disco.

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    Does Tammy Faye have a frog in her throat? Scary

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.
    The complete and original Time-lineup was still together on that album, hence for Jesse getting expanded exposure to cut his axx on jams such as "Blondie" and "Skillett", or Morris nodding to Jesse to "cut it" during the breakdown of "Jerk Out". All that and more with Jam & Lewis on the ride with interviews, shows on Saturday Night Live, Arsenio Hall, plus a brief tour in Europe and Japan.

    Cameo went briefly into the new wave-rock direction with tracks like "Alligator Woman", "Secrets Of Time", "This Life Is Not For Me", "Style", "Cameo's Dance", "Let's Not Talk Slot" and "L'eve Toi", before redirecting their formula with a customized and industrial beat in tracks such as "Single Life", "Word Up" and "Candy".

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    "Girl You Need a Change of Mind" was pivotal because it was probably one of the first extended dance records that became extremely popular in New York City at parties, dance clubs etc.
    Yep, appears around 13:40 along with an excellent explanation by dj Nicky Siano [[The Gallery).


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    Quote Originally Posted by chidrummer View Post
    BTW, Where's Tom Moulton on this?!!!!
    He's on the UK docu which I posted above. Both Unsung's & UK's episodes either fill or leave out gaps somewhat. The disco genre could therefore have a few episodes.

    Speaking of "Da Butt". That jam had a grammy nomination or either won one, by producer/writer Marcus Miller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngroove View Post
    Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
    Some of the mentioned groups were still active during the late 80s or into the 90s, if you check their discographies. Atlantic Starr pretty much went the "quiet storm" route because that was a selling format with artists like Anita Baker, Sade, Freddie Jackson and others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmic View Post
    Yep, appears around 13:40 along with an excellent explanation by dj Nicky Siano [[The Gallery).

    Thanks Cozmic! I knew my memory is mostly still there, hehehehe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Thanks Cozmic! I knew my memory is mostly still there, hehehehe!
    You're welcome! And thank you too + others here to share your memories!

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngroove View Post
    Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
    That's indeed a great track which video I recently checked again online
    , with solid bass fills by Freddie "Ready" Washington


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