Colorado Massacre

[rta5225]

[FONT=Century Gothic]I'm guessing this is the appropriate folder for this topic. I'm just wondering if anyone lives there and what they know. Also anyone who wants to react it's fine with me. I'm feeling very distraught because it seems like everytime you turn around someone is using a firearm and blowing away a bunch of people. It's very distressing. Your thoughts, etc.[/FONT]?

[marv2]

I use to live in Aurora, Colorado for one year after moving from Denver. It was in 1983-84. Just last week I was doing a search trying to find the street where I use to live. This story is just sad. The story of the shooting at a block party in Toronto last week was bad enough, this is just horrific. Too many guns on the streets.

[Jerry Oz]

I flew to California in the '80s to visit my brother. We drove from Riverside to Tijuana and stopped at a McDonald's in San Ysidro [[outside San Diego) on the way. I remembered it because the girls at the restaurant, most of them young Mexicans, were a collective of the most beautiful women I had seen. We bought our food and went to Mexico for the day.

Two weeks later, some idiot shot up a McDonald's in San Ysidro and I called my brother to talk about it. When I mentioned that we went through San Ysidro, he told me that the restaurant that was shot up was the same one we visited. I wondered about how many of those beautiful girls got caught in the massacre. I never let myself consider what would have happened had I been there two weeks later.

Since then, I try not to consider the numbers that they report when things like this happen. We find it easy to hide from horror by thinking "14 people got killed, 50 were shot." But, every single person was someone's daughter, mother, son, father, friend... It may sound obvious, but to me, it must be considered for fear that my own loved ones' lives [[and my own) may be marginalized in a similar horrific event. Such a tragedy.

[soulster]

I have relatives and an ex-brother-in-law who live in Aurora. I just hope none of them were at that theater, or are OK. I feel really horrible about this. But, i'll say that a lot of people today are unable to keep their politics out of it. Save it for tomorrow. Right now, we have a tragedy.

[tamla617]

your gun laws are out of control.
the right to bear arms?the red coats left in the 18th century [[and,ok, again in 1812).the civil war finished at appomattox 4/1865,the mexicans wont bother,you get food in a shop,no need to hunt for it,the buffalo is protected,the indians arent attacking anymore the west is opened up.what is the reason for civvies with guns?

[Jerry Oz]

It's too late to close that door, tamla617. Now, even if you decided to take the guns away, half the cops and enforcers are in the NRA camp, so they'd refuse to do it. Nothing less than a long and protracted civil war could result from trying to turn back the tide of guns and God protect us from whichever side managed to win.

[soulster]

your gun laws are out of control.

Tell that to the National Rifle Association [[NRA), who's always looking for money, and has legions of paranoid white men! Do you know that the NRA, and vigilante groups like them have so much power here that they literally help write and approve of bills in congress? Then they lobby for their support and passage, and give great kickbacks to lawmakers that do, and intimidate those who don't. The U.S. is not a democracy.
For the last couple of decades, they have put fear into the American people by saying that liberals/Democrats are trying to take away their guns and abolish the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. For the last five years, they have been using candidate, then President Obama, the secret socialist muslim, as the target of fear.

[robb_k]

Tell that to the National Rifle Association [[NRA), who's always looking for money, and has legions of paranoid white men! Do you know that the NRA, and vigilante groups like them have so much power here that they literally help write and approve of bills in congress? Then they lobby for their support and passage, and give great kickbacks to lawmakers that do, and intimidate those who don't. The U.S. is not a democracy.
For the last couple of decades, they have put fear into the American people by saying that liberals/Democrats are trying to take away their guns and abolish the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. For the last five years, they have been using candidate, then President Obama, the secret socialist muslim, as the target of fear.

Yes. And The 2nd amendment NEVER meant that it was a US citizen's right to keep a gun on his person, or in his house. It gave the citizens of any US community the right to form a local militia, to defend itself from incursion from foreigners, in the absence of US Army's ability to protect them. That implied a local arsenal for housing the weapons. Not having individuals walking around the streets packing guns.

And, NO, USA is NOT a democracy.

There are just too many humans on The World today, and they are concentrated too close together. Human nature just won't allow them to co-exist peacefully. This is natures way of trying to save [[the existence of) Life on The Planet. The problem is that guns are too powerful to allow the masses to have such free access to them. Too many accidents happen, and too many people that can't cope with their lives can use them to indescriminantly [[or discriminantly) hurt others. One solution which [[I've no doubt) WILL help with this issue within the next 20-30 years will be the brain scanning of ALL newly-born children, and the registering of those who will need hormone or vitamin or mineral injections to counteract their brain activity difficiencies in the areas of "empathy for others" and "responsibility". Many people will say this will be another movement towards the "1984" World of "Big Brother", and a loss of even more individual freedoms. But it will likely be done because the social good resulting from it, in alleviating a decent portion of the danger to innocent population, will outweigh the "forced" "therapy" "encumbrance" on those people's lives [[and that of their families).

[nysister]

Tell that to the National Rifle Association [[NRA), who's always looking for money, and has legions of paranoid white men! Do you know that the NRA, and vigilante groups like them have so much power here that they literally help write and approve of bills in congress? Then they lobby for their support and passage, and give great kickbacks to lawmakers that do, and intimidate those who don't. The U.S. is not a democracy.
For the last couple of decades, they have put fear into the American people by saying that liberals/Democrats are trying to take away their guns and abolish the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution. For the last five years, they have been using candidate, then President Obama, the secret socialist muslim, as the target of fear.

Say That!!!

[144man]

Are there no organisations lobbying for gun law reform then?

[jillfoster]

your gun laws are out of control.
the right to bear arms?the red coats left in the 18th century [[and,ok, again in 1812).the civil war finished at appomattox 4/1865,the mexicans wont bother,you get food in a shop,no need to hunt for it,the buffalo is protected,the indians arent attacking anymore the west is opened up.what is the reason for civvies with guns?

Some of us do still hunt for it. We have fishing poles for the same reason. I personally am tired of people trying to enact gun control because a bunch of city slickers can't manage their anger. I don't want to be punished for their bullcrap. Out here in farm country, the incidence of gun violence is non existant, and we have a far higher percentage of gun ownership than urban areas. Drunk driving is a huge problem, but I never see anyone calling for prohibition... and alcohol has no nutritional value, a rabbit or duck shot with a gun does. I use my gun all the time, mainly to shoot the squirrels that are chewing off the window frames and door casings of my HOUSE. And even in the absence of hunting, some farmers actually kill and process their own animals, such as pigs, lambs, turkeys.

[marv2]

Some of us do still hunt for it. We have fishing poles for the same reason. I personally am tired of people trying to enact gun control because a bunch of city slickers can't manage their anger. I don't want to be punished for their bullcrap. Out here in farm country, the incidence of gun violence is non existant, and we have a far higher percentage of gun ownership than urban areas. Drunk driving is a huge problem, but I never see anyone calling for prohibition... and alcohol has no nutritional value, a rabbit or duck shot with a gun does. I use my gun all the time, mainly to shoot the squirrels that are chewing off the window frames and door casings of my HOUSE. And even in the absence of hunting, some farmers actually kill and process their own animals, such as pigs, lambs, turkeys.

Maybe a tough gun control law that includes a provision that you must live in a rural area with a population under 3 or 4,000 people and then restrict the type of gun/weapon you are allowed to have even there. Too many people are being wounded and killed in this country by guns every day.

[marv2]

Are there no organisations lobbying for gun law reform then?

There are or have been, but they lack the power and influence of the NRA. More has to be done. With this last mass shooting it should be clear to everyone that everyone is at risk and you are not really safe anywhere.

[splanky]

jillfoster said:

I personally am tired of people trying to enact gun control because a bunch of city slickers can't manage their anger. I don't want to be punished for their bullcrap

I understand your dislike of being told what you can and cannot do but you stereotype rampage killers with this statement, sir. There've been nutcases like James Holmes popping off around the country for years, far north ,east,west
and deep south. I don't any longer but I've owned guns and enjoyed the experience of target practice so I get the
thrill and come from a family that hunted too. That said, what, tell me is the need for an assault rifle for anyone
not active military AND deployed???...
I don't think anything suggested here will eradicate this problem at all. That population rule you mentioned, Marv,
won't work either. If my legal residence is, say Winnsboro SC, with a population of under 3500 [[It's the town the
Presidential candidates campaigned in...) what's to stop me from taking my gun , driving to Hilton Head and blasting
people on the beach?...Though I think we need them, gun control laws don't erase homicidal tendencies...

[jillfoster]

Maybe a tough gun control law that includes a provision that you must live in a rural area with a population under 3 or 4,000 people and then restrict the type of gun/weapon you are allowed to have even there. Too many people are being wounded and killed in this country by guns every day.

Well, you know that's a possibility, Marv. I'm not even talking small towns of 3 or 4 thousand.. I'm talking farmers who live in unincorporated areas of the county. In most any town of ANY size, it's illegal to discharge a firemarm within the city limits. Maybe people who live within the city limits should be prohibited from owning one as well? And I'm all in agreement about assault weapons, no damn body needs to fire off 20 rounds right after the other. My 22 clip hold 6 shots, and you have to pull the trigger seperately for each shot. That enough for ANYONE. However, people say gun control laws would lower gun violence... then what about a law with a sunset clause? I figure if people say such and such legislation will ahve this effect, you better be prepared to PROVE IT. Pass a very restrictive gun control law, and if in 5 years, gun violence has not dropped by at least 50 percent, then the law goes away. If it's effective, it stays around.

[milven]

It's not where you live. It's who you allow to get guns. I know that if I had a gun in my car, I would probably be shooting people left and right if they cut me off. But I'm smart enough to know that I shouldn't have a gun. My uncle went senile recently and we found a loaded gun in his apartment. He always had an explosive personality. Even before he went senile, he should not have had a gun. Him having a gun was a tragedy waiting to happen. Thankfully, while we were arranging for his 24 hour home care in his home, we found the gun and took it out of his apartment.

There are people with mental problems. Most of those problems are controlled with medication. But getting the person to take the medication is sometimes a problem. I think rather than putting the spotlight on gun control, it should be put on mental illness. Find a way for these people to safely live a normal life which they can do with proper medication and counseling.

[westgrandboulevard]

I agree with milven.

Even here in the UK, where far fewer people have them, a gun in the wrong hands is a terrible weapon.

On March 13th 1996, Thomas Hamilton walked into Dunblane Primary School in Scotland, and shot dead sixteen children [[almost all of them just 5 years old), as well as one of the school teachers who tried to protect them, before shooting himself dead.

[Jerry Oz]

I think it's beyond the point where guns can be controlled. It always amazes me when NRA jock sniffers make the statement "we don't need new laws, they need to enforce the laws already on the books." Which laws are not being enforced? And if they were to enforce them, they'd be challenged in court by the NRA and most certainly overturned by the Supreme Court.

[soulster]

Yes. And The 2nd amendment NEVER meant that it was a US citizen's right to keep a gun on his person, or in his house. It gave the citizens of any US community the right to form a local militia, to defend itself from incursion from foreigners, in the absence of US Army's ability to protect them. That implied a local arsenal for housing the weapons. Not having individuals walking around the streets packing guns.

Agreed. But, that is not the interpretation of the Supreme Court.

[soulster]

Say That!!!

I can say this for a fact because I live in gun country. I know and talk with these people. They truly believe all the conspiracy theories. They live in constant fear. A lot of them are retired military and cops. They are trained to always have a gun, to always be ready. Some of these gun nuts have hero fantasies of saving the day if they ever find them in a situation with a bad guy trying to kill people. Somehow, they think they can get that one bullet to the head and be the hero. they never think about innocent bystanders getting hit by stray or ricocheting bullets.

And, of course, they push for weak or abolishment of all gun laws. They really want every man, woman, and child to carry unregistered firearms, and anyone who dares stop them will be labeled a socialist, and an advocate of big government. You can clearly see how this all plays up to the republicans, libertarians, tea-baggers, lone wolf nut jobs, like the Aroura shooter, and every crack-pot, racist vigilante group.

Of course, what these idiots never, ever think about is that their lax gun laws mean that the people they are against can also arm themselves against them too. They really do hate liberals, Democrats, and, especially Barrack, Hussein Obama! All their hatred is built on lies, rumors, and racism. In other words: ignorance.

All the other kids with their pumped-up kicks...

I personally don't have any problems with guns, as long as they are treated with respect, the users treat others with respect and act responsibly, and certain laws and restrictions are in place to help ensure that whack-jobs can't get them so easily. And, I believe they should be registered with background checks.

[marv2]

There were approx. 9,300 gun related deaths/murders in the U.S. last year alone. I recall a report back around 1994 that showed that Detroit Metro.with a est. population of 4 million had over 600 gun related murders while Toronto Metro with an est. population of 4.2 million had 18! Two cities of similar size and only 240 miles apart! By the way, majority of the 18 murders that year in Toronto occurred between waring Asian gangs.

[robb_k]

There were approx. 9,300 gun related deaths/murders in the U.S. last year alone. I recall a report back around 1994 that showed that Detroit Metro.with a est. population of 4 million had over 600 gun related murders while Toronto Metro with an est. population of 4.2 million had 18! Two cities of similar size and only 240 miles apart! By the way, majority of the 18 murders that year in Toronto occurred between waring Asian gangs.

Most Americans probably think their society and Canada's are very similar. But, I dare say that most Canadians probably think differently. For my money it's far too easy for people to get guns in Canada, and there are far too many murders there. I don't even want to mention how bad violence is in USA. As I stated above, we'll NEVER get rid of ALL violence and murders, because most of the time, it can't be predicted and prevented. But stronger gun laws and enforcement and brain-scanning ALL people WILL come to be, and a good percentage of the mass murders will, thus, be prevented. Many people will complain about the interference into their lives by government, but it will come, nevertheless.

We saw what happened in Hitler's Germany, where almost an entire population was compliant in very bad goings on. It's not just the violent fringe that is capable of using guns to hurt and kill people. If the average joe also has guns, there will be a LOT more innocent people being hurt and killed than if just the criminals, law enforcemenr personnel, military and a few lunatics do.

[marv2]

Just a little over a week ago, a friend I went to High School with was shot in his head, by his neighbor! There are too many guns on the streets in America and they are too easy to get!

[144man]

I'm not normally a supporter of capital punishment, but I can't think of one good reason why perpetrators of mass murder should be allowed to live.

[milven]

Just a bit off topic, but as she has at she has been doing in several stops on her world tour, Madonna waved fake machine guns, assault rifles and and pistols Saturday during her Scottish concert — despite news of the Colorado shootings and requests from Edinburgh police not to perform with the props. She said that she rather cancel the show than censor her art. Bad taste is not a crime. Just shows a lack of respect for the tragedy in Colorado.

[tamla617]

Some of us do still hunt for it. We have fishing poles for the same reason. I personally am tired of people trying to enact gun control because a bunch of city slickers can't manage their anger. I don't want to be punished for their bullcrap. Out here in farm country, the incidence of gun violence is non existant, and we have a far higher percentage of gun ownership than urban areas. Drunk driving is a huge problem, but I never see anyone calling for prohibition... and alcohol has no nutritional value, a rabbit or duck shot with a gun does. I use my gun all the time, mainly to shoot the squirrels that are chewing off the window frames and door casings of my HOUSE. And even in the absence of hunting, some farmers actually kill and process their own animals, such as pigs, lambs, turkeys.

i live in the country,we have "critters" we have pest control that lay traps.they dont turn up looking like the 101st airbourne to do it ether.ak47's are ok then?thats what is wrong."we've always done it this way" the last words of a dying swan and echoed by a dead 6 year old girl!

[robb_k]

People have to SHOOT their own home-grown domesticated turkeys to get them ready for market or eating??? When I was young [[60 years ago), we killed our fowl by chopping their heads off with an axe [[thus, the saying "running around like a chicken with its head cut off!").

[MotownSteve]

If a stock broker makes a deal over $10,000 [[I think) alarms go off. But if a psycho buys several thousand rounds of ammo and multiple automatic weapons, nothing. Somehow, this does not seem right.

[westgrandboulevard]

MotownSteve

Yes, definitely something wrong.

Here in the UK, you can't even buy more than two packets of painkillers, each containing 16 capsules/tablets, in one single transaction....

[tamla617]

if you remember the hungerford [[87?) massacre or dunblane,[[andy murray the world #4 tennis player had to hide in a classroom btw) those 2 incidents were water sheds in gun control in the uk,actually most of us thought we already had it.shotguns for farmers is one thing.automatic high velocity firearms,military spec weapons,special rounds [[bullets) match rounds.thats not for getting your thanksgiving gobbler to the table.if you could see what a high velocity round does there wont be any turkey left.so i'll go down the road to mathew's turkey empire with an uzi and take out a years production in minutes.or get a .50 cal druganov snipers rifle and take a dang varmint skwirl chewing on house boards straight thru it the wall and out the other side of the house and keep going for 5 miles? those are the ones that have no use in a civilised country.there isnt an excuse you can come up with to warrant the need for these weapons.i loved my annual trip for my firearms certificate and sniper badge.i loved getting some range time in.machine guns,pistols,high velocity rifles.i'm not a nutter,i dont worship the things.i wouldnt have a firearm in the house if i was paid to.