DMF singing People in the "Orient"

[ejluther]

Perhaps if you heard Flo's lead on "The Night Time is the Right Time" and others she front as the Supremes/Primettes lead

I wish there were recordings of those early Primette days...

[floyjoy678]

After Diana, Flo definitely had a distinct voice; you're always able to pick her voice out in the background. While Flo was a good background singer I'm not so sure about her being a lead singer. I do like her on "It Makes No Difference Now" [[both versions), "O Holy Night' and...yes "People". I'm a big Florence fan but I will say this when I heard those ABC recordings all I kept thinking to myself was "Really?".

[rod_rick]

A couple points:

If Motown wasn't committed to presenting Flo in the best possible light, ABC did a much worse job. They made Motown look good. Flo's best work, her remembered work comes from Berry and Motown and the Supremes - her duets with Diana - Manhattan, Nothing But Heartaches, Come See About Me, and Ain't that Good News and O Holy Night.

What's the revision? One version is that Florence and Mary were background singers without much in the way of distinctive voices. Are we trying to revise history to say Florence, at least, had a distinctive voice? Otis would hardly be someone to talk about lead singers and distinctive voices but he definitely might be somebody that could relate to Florence Ballard in addition to being a friend and lover.

Rob I would to disagree with you when said "Otis would hardly be someone to talk about lead singers and distinctive voices" because Otis knew he wasn't a lead singer and you have to admit that he always have great singers that sing lead while he stayed in the background. Some can recognize the potential and I would say that Florence had potential to be a great leadd vocalist.

[rod_rick]

And while I believe Diane Ross deserved to be at the top because her voice and drive pushed the Supremes to mega stardom, did Florence really have be be pushed to the bottom and left there? Surely her old friends Diane and Mary could have stuck up for her more and couldn't Mr. Gordy have shown more compassion and paid for Flo to dry out and stay off the liquor? It breaks my heart when I think of poor Flo. Tragic, heartbreaking and tragic. Mercifully Florence is an angel in heaven now, and with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God bless you Flo. You will never be forgotten.

"nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons and daughters of God, being sons and daughters of the resurrection."

Roberta

Roberta
The only way that would have worked is if Florence wanted it for herself. I hate to say it, but Florence brought a lot of that on herself.

[soulballad]

You guys this is going no where! I think Florence was a great singer, a great lead singer and a great talent and beauty but that is my opinon. You are NEVER going to convence those who dont want to see the good. The fact is this is just like the Dems Vs. the Repubs. Those who are for President Obama can find the good that he's done and those who oppose him only can see the bad! It's not going away and it's really a waste of time. The best advise I can give [[I know nobody asked!) is to enjoy the music and the old clips etc. and just ignore the crazies! In the big scheme of things this ranks as very small.

[marv2]

Sometimes it is easy to forget just how huge The Supremes were. If this were the MTV days, they would have dedicated an entire special to "The Supremes in the Orient". Unfortunately, The Supremes have not even received a proper 50th Anniversary celebration. Though The Beach Boys also were very popular, The Supremes eclipsed them as the most popular American group from 1964-1969. And that was not only the singles, but, multi-platinum selling albums in "Where Did Our Love Go", "More Hits by", "Sing Holland, Dozier, Holland", "A Go Go" amongst others. No acts sold the types of quantities that were sold in the 90s, even The Beatles. However, TLC and The Spice Girls have more registered RIAA sales than The Supremes. But in actuality, The Supremes still reign as the #1 girl group in the world, to this day.....if you extrapolated their sales into current numbers, those 20 million albums sold, would be much closer to 50 million albums.
But here comes The Beach Boys with a new album and a new tour. Of course, neither was possible for The Supremes, but, The Beatles are down to two living members and they still get first class promotion.
The Beach Boys resurgence was handled so well that I ended up buying "The Pet Sounds: Complete Sessions".
But The Supremes' 50th Anniversary has practically come and gone with only another compilation and the Ed Sullivan appearances on DVD. You would have thought that VH1 and BET would have done specials on both them and The Temptations. Why wasn't "T.C.B." and/or "G.I.T." not re-air on PBS. Every time that iTunes promotes one of their compilations, especially "#1s", the sales are quite impressive. So I honestly feel it is a matter of Motown/Universal does not have the vision to insure that their legacy lives on.
It doesn't take a marketing whiz to see a lost opportunity.
The Supremes television specials should have re-aired on PBS, VH1 and BET!
i'm sure if Berry Gordy was still at the helm, the legacy of his Mount Rushmore roster would be properly promoted.
How will a new generation know without being told? How will the Baby Boomers be reignited without proper promotion?
Sure rock acts have a different trajectory, but, surely if The Supremes were properly promoted, their 50th Anniversary would have been a lot more celebratory.

Great post. I agree on all points.

[marv2]

The best version of People is on the pink box set, where Flo nails it. I saw the Supremes at the Copa in 66 and all three shared the song. Flo's solo of "Long Gone Lover" is also a real treat. Hopefully we will hear more of Flo from the vaults she was a great singer.

Florence was a superb singer. Given right material, she would always knock it out of the park. The same can be said of Mary Wilson. She will knock it out of the park next month in Detroit some 50 years after she started singing professionally there!

[jobeterob]

Rod: I blew it with Otis. He must know lead singers and every other kind of singer nearly perfectly because he's employed them all to keep his group going endlessly for 50 years plus! Slipped on that one.

[luke]

Of course Otis being there at the time and only singing background he is known for being delusional so never listen to what he has to say. lol My goodness people will say anything to further their agenda.

[rod_rick]

Florence was a superb singer. Given right material, she would always knock it out of the park. The same can be said of Mary Wilson. She will knock it out of the park next month in Detroit some 50 years after she started singing professionally there!

I've been listening to the last Tammie Terrell project that I was released and my opinion I think some of it would have been good for Florence. As far as producers, Ashford and Simpson would have done a great job with Florence imo.

[BigAl]

In my opinion, Gordy missed the boat all the way by under-utilizing Mary and Florence. Granted, it was Diane's crossover voice and style, and HDH's material and production, which catapulted The Supremes to the big-time. Keeping that formula for the singles was, of course, the right idea, but had Mary and Flo been given some more leads on album cuts and in concert, and had there been more no-lead/three-part-harmony numbers included [[in addition to "People," listen to "Sleepwalk" and "Lazybones.") there's no question in my mind that the act would have beome even bigger. But that wasn't Gordy's plan — especially once he and Diane became romantically involved. I'm just thankful that there's adequate recorded documentation that Mary & Flo were also consummate vocal stylists — arguably even more than Diane.

[smark21]

I agree that Mary and Flo could have been featured more on album cuts as leads. But we can’t turn back time.

[Jimi LaLumia]

In my opinion, Gordy missed the boat all the way by under-utilizing Mary and Florence. Granted, it was Diane's crossover voice and style, and HDH's material and production, which catapulted The Supremes to the big-time. Keeping that formula for the singles was, of course, the right idea, but had Mary and Flo been given some more leads on album cuts and in concert, and had there been more no-lead/three-part-harmony numbers included [[in addition to "People," listen to "Sleepwalk" and "Lazybones.") there's no question in my mind that the act would have beome even bigger. But that wasn't Gordy's plan — especially once he and Diane became romantically involved. I'm just thankful that there's adequate recorded documentation that Mary & Flo were also consummate vocal stylists — arguably even more than Diane.

THE SUPREMES were the #1 US recording act of the 1960's,second only to THE BEATLES worldwide;
the act COULDN'T get any bigger...and the act was all about DIANA ROSS!

[luke]

"Florence was a great singer." Diana Ross from that Sparrow book.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Flo was a great,powerful singer, she just wasn't a lead singer,she didn't have the patience,temperment,style or chops to pull off ever being a lead..but nonetheless, she resented Diana getting all the attention,,,that is understandable, ask George Harrison or Ringo Starr,or Keith Richards of The Rolling Stones...but still, as a member of the biggest American recording act of the 1960's, it was crazy for her to shoot herself in both feet when the group was riding high,and to attack her employer, and threaten her employer,Berry Gordy, treating him as an equal..try doing that where you work and see what happens...
even Ross did what she was told, even when she didn't want to..sorry, the 'poor,poor Flo' thing does not fly with me..

[antceleb12]

"Florence was a great singer." Diana Ross from that Sparrow book.

Agreed.

Diana knows that her group mates were talented. Mary knows that her group mates were talented. Florence knew that her group mates were talented. AKA, they all had great respect for each other. Let's leave the drama [[if there is any left) to the girls and not beat a dead horse.

I think we can all agree that they all had talent. Otherwise, they wouldn't be as 'Supreme' as they are.

[detmotownguy]

Agreed.

Diana knows that her group mates were talented. Mary knows that her group mates were talented. Florence knew that her group mates were talented. AKA, they all had great respect for each other. Let's leave the drama [[if there is any left) to the girls and not beat a dead horse.

I think we can all agree that they all had talent. Otherwise, they wouldn't be as 'Supreme' as they are.

Agreed, nicely said. A nice way to close this thread out.

[marv2]

Penny, I was privileged to see "Return to Love" in of all places, Detroit. If you attended that show, I hope you will agree that it was simply amazing. I honestly did not miss marywilson or Cindy. [[After their disastrous appearance on Motown 45, neither women looked ready for prime time). Ironically to me, though they were virtually the same age, both Lynda Laurence and Scherrie Payne looked like younger, vibrant versions of marywilson and Cindy.
i am biased because I have been a Diana Ross admirer since 1964.
But "Return to Love" was plagued by unfair, in my opinion bad press. Without reigniting the same old issues, one particular person had a vendetta and that vendetta went viral because people tend to be drawn to controversy more than reality sometimes. Never forget before SFX pulled the plug, Madison Square Garden was sold out. Also Lynda attended one of the Diana Ross fan events and stated unequivocally that SFX or was it FX, tried to coerce Diana into a long term touring contract, which she wasn't interested in. You can believe what you believe. I just saw it as "Return to Love" became a victim of Murphy's Law.
All that stated, the end result of "Return to Love" should not have forced near inaction from Motown/Universal on the 50th Anniversary. [[They had tried to capitalize on the tour by preparing The Supremes boxset in the pink hues of the tour).

The "Return to Love Tour" was taken as joke by most here in New York. It should have never went out without Mary or Cindy for that matter. Madison Square Garden was NOT sold out and we here on Long Island refused to go see it at Jones Beach causing it to be cancelled!

[Jimi LaLumia]

"Return To Love" should have never been talked about in the press, etc until all the original parties had agreed or not agreed to do it, and legally signed on..
leaking it out there before it actually existed[[originally as the 'reunion', which was then denied, but it was originally called 'reunion') was the fatal error... a real shame, actually... no one could keep their mouths shut, starting with Miss Ross[[yes, I'm a fan, but as I've said many times, I don't drink the 'kool aid" or wear the rose colored glasses..I call em as I see em..she should have kept her mouth shut until a deal was,or wasn't, legally done..)

[marv2]

"Return To Love" should have never been talked about in the press, etc until all the original parties had agreed or not agreed to do it, and legally signed on..
leaking it out there before it actually existed[[originally as the 'reunion', which was then denied, but it was originally called 'reunion') was the fatal error... a real shame, actually... no one could keep their mouths shut, starting with Miss Ross[[yes, I'm a fan, but as I've said many times, I don't drink the 'kool aid" or wear the rose colored glasses..I call em as I see em..she should have kept her mouth shut until a deal was,or wasn't, legally done..)

Jimi, just this past week I was finally able to locate my tape with about a dozen local New York City news outlets reporting on the story of RTL beginning with that press conference at Grand Central Station and even with Mary at her apartment on the UWS. They talked to people on the street, radio station personalities, gossip people and even the news anchors "showed" their opinions about that tour. In a word.....it was a MESS! All the other people that jumped on the bandwagon from Jay Leno, to Howard Stern to even Donny & Marie! LOL! It was a complete mess and promoters are just as much to blame as Diana Ross and the others.

[luke]

The New York Daily News and WBLS had much to say too. Front page in the former "The Subpremes"!

[Bokiluis]

There is the "People" studio version used on There's A Place For Us and the 1964 live version used on the Where Did Our Love Go Expanded. There are a few other early live performances but we used the best on the WDOLG expanded. And they sang it at the Motortown Revue in Paris but audio problems made it unreleasable [[only Mary's mic was on). They obviously sang this song quite a bit in the early years. After the Roostertail show in late 66 there are no more recorded performances of the song.
The Supremes In The Orient is something that Motown Productions have [[or had). Even their best copy isn't pristine. I don't think it was recorded very well. Obviously there is or was a lot more footage from the unedited special but I have no idea where that would be.

George it is really invaluable to have this confirmed. In a sense, I am even thankful of any and all the footage that does exist. I had heard from someone that when Motown was relocating to Los Angeles, tons of memorabilia was tossed out and destroyed. The Motown of 1968-69 was quite different than the Motown of 1972. As we all know some artists' career came to a near halt [[Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, The Marvelettes, Jr. Walker, etc.), while others graduated from the stigma of being a singles label, to producing some of the most iconic pop/soul albums of all time like "What's Going On", "Lady Sings the Blues", "Talking Book"/"Innervisions", "Smokey", etc.).
i just hope that someday soon we may see some of the footage that was salvaged. I was so hoping when Motown 40 happened, that Suzanne DePasse would have delivered on her promise for that deep documentary. The Motown Story needs to be told effectively on film as it was so well captured on the first "Motown Story" boxset, the one with 5 vinyl discs. Even the proposed Broadway show will only be able to capture the highlights in a 2-3 hour production. Legend has it that Berry is sitting on a treasure trove of rare film footage. He still looks great, but, Berry is really getting up there in age. I hope he does leave provisions behind on how to handle those assets. "When You Dream.....".

[George Solomon]

Thousands of photos and negatives were left behind or trashed when Motown moved. Many were "rescued" by people in the area. They were auctioned, sold or just given away... And that's why you see so many rare photos on the internet and ebay.
As for the Motown of the late 60's and early 70's, I always thought "New Ways But Love Stays" by the Supremes should have put them in the "album artist" category. I realize I'm starting a whole new topic and I know this isn't a favorite album to everyone... We've discussed the cover and title of the album but the sound and material seemed very relevant to what was happening in 1970.
Now, how to I bring this topic back to "People"? OK... In 70 and 71, Mary and Cindy used to leave the stage and Jean would do a fantastic solo of "People" in their stage show.

[RossHolloway]

Thousands of photos and negatives were left behind or trashed when Motown moved. Many were "rescued" by people in the area. They were auctioned, sold or just given away... And that's why you see so many rare photos on the internet and ebay.
As for the Motown of the late 60's and early 70's, I always thought "New Ways But Love Stays" by the Supremes should have put them in the "album artist" category. I realize I'm starting a whole new topic and I know this isn't a favorite album to everyone... We've discussed the cover and title of the album but the sound and material seemed very relevant to what was happening in 1970.
Now, how to I bring this topic back to "People"? OK... In 70 and 71, Mary and Cindy used to leave the stage and Jean would do a fantastic solo of "People" in their stage show.

George - were there any live recordings of Jeans solo version of People. I would love to hear it.

[George Solomon]

Jean's "People" was a real showstopper and it was the only moment in the show where one lady was left alone on stage. I saw it three times. I'm sure other fans have seen this show as well. It's been said that the show was recorded for a live album in 1971 at the Frontier in Vegas and the Copa in New York. So far, we haven't found the recordings. So far... New things are turning up all the time!

[rod_rick]

Jean's "People" was a real showstopper and it was the only moment in the show where one lady was left alone on stage. I saw it three times. I'm sure other fans have seen this show as well. It's been said that the show was recorded for a live album in 1971 at the Frontier in Vegas and the Copa in New York. So far, we haven't found the recordings. So far... New things are turning up all the time!

God, I sure hope those show up George Ross, I have 2 recordings of Jean singing "People" 1 from The David Frost Show" and the other from the Central Park concert, and yes Jean tear into that song.

[antceleb12]

Thousands of photos and negatives were left behind or trashed when Motown moved. Many were "rescued" by people in the area. They were auctioned, sold or just given away... And that's why you see so many rare photos on the internet and ebay.
As for the Motown of the late 60's and early 70's, I always thought "New Ways But Love Stays" by the Supremes should have put them in the "album artist" category. I realize I'm starting a whole new topic and I know this isn't a favorite album to everyone... We've discussed the cover and title of the album but the sound and material seemed very relevant to what was happening in 1970.
Now, how to I bring this topic back to "People"? OK... In 70 and 71, Mary and Cindy used to leave the stage and Jean would do a fantastic solo of "People" in their stage show.

George, I have always thought that "New Ways But Love Stays" was the best album recorded by the Supremes since "Rodgers & Hart." It really puzzles me why Motown didn't push this album more than it did [[my guess would be that Berry had "washed his hands").
I had no idea about Jean singing people! I can imagine that she would have knocked that number out of the park.

[Jimi LaLumia]

for the same reason that they took "Never Can Say Goodbye" away from Jean, even though she brought the song to Motown; If they had dropped The Supremes into that same original arrangement instead of the J5, it would have been an across the board #1 for the girls, but Motown 70's obviously didn't want that, Jean shadowing[[[[or, as in the first year, OVER shadowing) Diana Ross..THAT was NOT the game plan....lol..

[jillfoster]

Jean's "People" was a real showstopper and it was the only moment in the show where one lady was left alone on stage. I saw it three times. I'm sure other fans have seen this show as well. It's been said that the show was recorded for a live album in 1971 at the Frontier in Vegas and the Copa in New York. So far, we haven't found the recordings. So far... New things are turning up all the time!

I've also read that Mary did "Windmills Of Your Mind" at the live shows during that time... I'd love to hear that for SURE.