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  1. #1
    smark21 Guest

    Anyone remember the old ABA American Basketball Association?

    I"m reading Loose Balls, an oral history of the ABA, the pro basketball league that took on the NBA from 1967-1976. It was a launching pad for such greats as Dr. J Julius Irving, George Gervin, Artis Gilmore and others. 4 ABA teams made it into the NBA--the Pacers, the Spurs, the Nuggets and the Nets. The book is a fun read. Im wondering if any members here ever attended ABA games and have memories of the league?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ll_Association

  2. #2
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    I barely remember the ABA beyond the red, white, and blue basketballs and Dr. J's afro. I was always a huge David Thompson fan [[maybe still my favorite basketball player) though, and I remain a Nuggets fan to this day.

    My friend Mike was the biggest Julius Erving fan that I knew. He followed him from the ABA to the NBA and from the Nets to the Sixers. I remember him being teased for crying at school when Portland beat the Sixers in the finals, so I started paying attention to Doc and the Sixers. Consequently, I'm a Sixers fan as well. Anyway, the integration of the ABA was instrumental in the NBA's success as a league. It brought fun into a bully sport.

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    Do any of you older members remember the American Basketball League-the previous competitor to The NBA in 1960-61 and 1961-62. They had The Chicago Majors, Hawaii, Cleveland Pipers, Los Angeles, Washington. My uncle, in Los Angeles, handles the publicity for that league. Connie Hawkins also played in that league. Does anyone remember The World Hockey League? You probably remember The World Hockey Association [[which had 4 teams eventually taken into The National Hockey League).

    Am I the only one here who saw The St. Louis Browns, Philadelphia Athletics, Boston Braves, Washington Nationals [[American League), Cincinnati Redlegs [[during the Communist scare/McCarthy era)[[Major League baseball), Satchel Paige, Johnny Mize, Joe DiMaggio, Bob Feller, Ted Williams and Stan Musial in their primes, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, and Hank Aaron as rookies, Boston Yanks, New York Yanks, Chicago Cardinals, Dallas Texans [[NFL 1952) and then see that team move to Baltimore [[to become the Colts),[[NFL), Chicago Stags, Milwaukee Hawks, Rochester Royals, Fort Wayne Pistons, Syracuse Nationals[[all NBA), George Mikan, Abe Saperstein [[as a player!), St. Louis Flyers, Rocket Richard, Red Kelly, Jean Beliveau, Gordie Howe, Sid Abel and Ted Lindsay in their primes, the United States Hockey League [[pro league), Western Hockey League [[pro league), who remembers The Toronto Maple Leafs when they were GOOD?

    Am I the only one old enough to have played organised hockey without a helmet?

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    I remember the ABA very well. I met several of the former players from the league. I've met David Thompson, Julius Erving and others many years ago.

  5. #5
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    robb_k, I thought that I was adding on the years but you make me feel like I should be looking forward to getting out of school for summer break in a week or so...

    The ABA players were the tonic for the NBA's ills. Does anyone remember the last Sunday of the season when David "Skywalker" [[before Luke, kids) Thompson scored 73 points, only to lose the scoring title by a fraction of a point to George "Ice Man" Gervin, who scored 63 on the same day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    robb_k, I thought that I was adding on the years but you make me feel like I should be looking forward to getting out of school for summer break in a week or so...

    The ABA players were the tonic for the NBA's ills. Does anyone remember the last Sunday of the season when David "Skywalker" [[before Luke, kids) Thompson scored 73 points, only to lose the scoring title by a fraction of a point to George "Ice Man" Gervin, who scored 63 on the same day?
    I remember the game. Wasn't that in 1977?

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    I Googled it and found out it was in April 1978.

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    I saw Jerry Pettway play at Northwood Institute in the 1966-1967 season before he was drafted by the Houston Mavericks. Saw the Ralph Simpson/Byron Beck led Denver Rockets/Nuggets in the mid 70's a couple of times when I lived in Colorado Springs. Believe they changed their name before the 74/75 season, as the ABA-NBA merger was in the works and there was already a "Rockets" in the NBA.

    You had an idea that the league was struggling when the Rockets ran a promotion....you know, the first 10,000 fans get a free something or other.....to fill the arena during the '74/'75 playoffs.
    Last edited by Doug-Morgan; 05-31-2012 at 07:36 AM.

  9. #9
    smark21 Guest
    One of the most interesting things in reading the ABA book is learning about all the things the ABA teams try to do to promote their teams and get people to come to the games. It was not uncommon for some teams to draw only a couple of hundred people for the night. One of the pics in the book is of Dr. J. at the free throw line during his rookie season with the Virginia Squires when they were on the road playing with the Pittsburgh Condors. It looked like there was only 100 people there for the game and they looked bored. Not a shocker to learn the Condors folded after Julius Erving’s first season.

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    They should bundle "Loose Balls" with "The $400,000 Quarterback - or- The League That Came In From The Cold" as a 2-fer. The ABA and the AFL had a lot of parallels.

    http://www.amazon.com/quarterback-le.../dp/B0007DZ6B8

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    Isn't the ABA the birthplace of the slam dunk competition? The NBA took a good concept and ruined it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I Googled it and found out it was in April 1978.
    Thank you Jerry!

  13. #13
    smark21 Guest
    According to the book, the original slam dunk competition was a last minute idea on the part of the ABA to bring out a crowd for the 1976 ABA all star game. They made up rules on the fly. The only participants were those players who were already going to be in Denver to play in the All Star Game: Gervin, Gilmore, Irving, Thompson, and Larry Kenon. The first slam dunk contest is on youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CWVytKWf0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-9p87zP8qQ
    What a time capsule!

  14. #14
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    Thanks, smark! Watching that and I could remember all of Dr. J's dunks like they happened yesterday. He clearly was the class of that group and raised the bar for players who played above the rim.
    Last edited by Jerry Oz; 05-31-2012 at 10:47 PM.

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    The last[aba]game i saw was the[nets]winning the title with dr.j.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robb_k View Post
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    do any of you older members remember the american basketball league-the previous competitor to the nba in 1960-61 and 1961-62. They had the chicago majors, hawaii, cleveland pipers, los angeles, washington. My uncle, in los angeles, handles the publicity for that league. Connie hawkins also played in that league. Does anyone remember the world hockey league? You probably remember the world hockey association [[which had 4 teams eventually taken into the national hockey league).

    Am i the only one here who saw the st. Louis browns, philadelphia athletics, boston braves, washington nationals [[american league), cincinnati redlegs [[during the communist scare/mccarthy era)[[major league baseball), satchel paige, johnny mize, joe dimaggio, bob feller, ted williams and stan musial in their primes, willie mays, ernie banks, and hank aaron as rookies, boston yanks, new york yanks, chicago cardinals, dallas texans [[nfl 1952) and then see that team move to baltimore [[to become the colts),[[nfl), chicago stags, milwaukee hawks, rochester royals, fort wayne pistons, syracuse nationals[[all nba), george mikan, abe saperstein [[as a player!), st. Louis flyers, rocket richard, red kelly, jean beliveau, gordie howe, sid abel and ted lindsay in their primes, the united states hockey league [[pro league), western hockey league [[pro league), who remembers the toronto maple leafs when they were good?

    Am i the only one old enough to have played organised hockey without a helmet?
    hey robb,did you see the washington senators[pre-frank howard]with[don lock-jim king-chuck hinton]in the outfield?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by arrr&bee View Post
    hey robb,did you see the washington senators[pre-frank howard]with[don lock-jim king-chuck hinton]in the outfield?
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    Sure- Their 1961-63 team. But they were the NEW Washington Senators, who came after the Old Senators moved to Minnesota to become The Twins. I remember The Old Senators with Mickey Vernon [[winning the batting title, and a lot of Cubans playing for that low-budget team [[1951-60). 1951 is when I first started seeing US major league baseball games in Chicago, when we visited there in summer. Luckily, Chicago had BOTH American and National league teams. The Cubs were TERRIBLE then, The Sox finished between 2nd and 3rd every year, jockeying with Cleveland. The Yankees ALWAYS won in those days [[except 1954, when The Indians won. My favourite period of Major league baseball was 1951-1960. My favourite players were Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Warren Spahn, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Lee Maye [[Arthur Lee Maye [[of The Crowns). Great singer, and a .300 hitter with The Milwaukee Braves. What a combination!

    Of course I was a much bigger hockey fan. I played organised hockey for 17 years from mites and pee wees all the way to juniors. I played in The Manitoba Junior Hockey League [[one step below Major Junior level). 5 players against whom I competed played in The NHL. I lost three teeth from the front of my mouth [[I have implants-so no problem). They've never come loose, so it hasn't changed my life. One of my neighbours played in The NHL for 15 years, and, coincidentally, played for several years for The Blackhawks before and after I and my family moved there.

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    Ahhhh...."Loose Balls" is one great book. Over the years I've read my copy so much that the paperback began separating from the binder.

    I began watching the ABA back in 1970 & of course my team was the Nets before they moved to The Nassau Colliseum. I remember guys like Louie Carnesecca, Bill Melchionni, Rick Barry, Jim Ard, John Roche, "Trooper" Washington & Ollie Taylor, whom according to my basketball card could jump over an automobile.

    I remember the Miami Floridians & the mean Warren Armstrong who became Warren Jabali, the Kentucky Colonels with Dan Issel & the Virginia Squires who always gave the Nets fits. And when you think about the contrast of Moses Malone when he was a skinny kid just entering the league & the huge guy who gave us "Fo-Five-Fo" several years later, is a sight to remember & to behold. I also liked the fact that the ABA gave people an opportunity to see a guy like Brooklyn's own Connie Hawkins who was the ORIGINAL Doctor J & ended up jerked in a points shaving scandal. I remember his book "Foul", which was one of the 1st serious sports books that I read as a pre-teen.

    What other league could've given us a "Fly" Williams, a Marvin Barnes or Detroit's Reggie Harding? Or how about fellow Detroiter John Brisker would would end up disappearing in Africa in the late 70s, never to be seen again?

    I always believed the the ABA deserved so much more support than it received & those owners were some pretty creative guys & the ABA was a lot less tight-assed than the NBA. While the NBA often reminded me of the college game & how the coaches seem to make the game all about themselves, their "genius" & trying to see how many passes they could make in quest of the "perfect" shot before the 24 second clock expired, the ABA was more like how we kids thought about it...they just let them play without 1000 & 1 restrictions.

    And that made watching the ABA a whole lot more fun than the NBA. The ABA was usually non-stop action, not always a thing of beauty, but they sure didn't bore you to death & as a kid, that was important.

    It's a shame to think back to how that league fell apart because I really loved watching those 3 point shots, those huge afros & their playing above the rim. To be perfectly honest about it, though the NBA took great pains at knocking the ABA, they sure adopted many of their innovations & truthfully, when you see what the NBA's become over the last couple of decades, it sure is eerily reminiscent of how the ABA used to be.

    Only with a better tv contract & deeper pockets.

    I wish that the ABA had never folded because it sure brings back a lot of great memories for me. The Nets & fun thoughts aside, one thing about the ABA which will always remain with me is the plane crash that killed Wendell Ladner near JFK. Wendell was one wild player & I don't mean that in a bad way & he was one of Dr. J's protectors. If you messed with Dr. J, you could be sure that Wendell would come looking for you on that court. I'll never forget that crash because the grandmother of a friend who lived in the next apartment also perished in that crash. I don't think about that often but whenever I see the name Wendell Ladner, I remember the day that her family got that horrible news.

    While I still have some, I sure wish that I had all of my old basketball cards. Most of the ones that I have left are from 1973-74, the others were demolished from stuffing them in my pockets & gluing them into scrapbooks. Somehow, I always thought that I'd be able to get them back. I never dreamed that 1980 would find most of those sets quickly priced out of my ball park.

    I guess there's always Powerball!

  19. #19
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    arrr&bee

    Indeed! That was the last championship of the ABA. The next year, the New York Nets, Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers & San Antonio Spurs were granted entry to the NBA. The Kentucky Colonels were paid a nice fee to simply disband & they also profited from the sale of their players like Artis Gilmore.

    Ironically, while paying him to fold his team, John Brown received enough money so that he could eventually buy the Buffalo Braves [[MacAdoo!!!!) & he ended up with the big boys in the NBA anyway!

    Not so with Pat Boone who lost his shirt with, I believe it was The Spirits Of St. Louis???

    Anyone???

  20. #20
    smark21 Guest
    I just finished reading Loose Balls. Pat Boone lost money on the Oakland Oaks which eventually became the Virginia Squires.
    The owners of the Spirits of ST. Louis really benefitted from the merger as they negotiated a settlement from the NBA owners that to go away they would receive 1/7 of the TV rights fees being paid to the 4 ABA teams to go into the NBA for perpuity.
    Reggie Harding played briefly in the ABA for the Pacers. He was kicked off the team for threatening one of his teammates with a gun. A few years ago, Peter Benjamonson identified Harding as Flo Ballard’s rapist in his book Florence.
    I did a search on Marvin Bad News Barnes as I figured he might be dead. To my surprise, he’s still alive and earlier this year he ran into more legal trouble. He hit on an underage girl who was part of some sort of mentoring program he’s running for at risk youth in Providence RI.

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    Marvin "Bad News or "News" Barnes epitomized the ABA...talent, disorganization, and dysfunction. I knew Marvin back in the day and I could tell you some stories. I won't!

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    Connie Hawkins playing for the Pittsburgh Pipers?

  23. #23
    smark21 Guest
    Yes, in the first two seasons of the ABA, 1967-68 and 1968-69, Connie Hawkins played for the Pipers. The team was in Pittsburgh the first season where they won the league championship, then moved to Minnesota for the second season [[because the first Minnesota franchise failed and the league commissioner George Mikan insisted there be a team in Minneapolis as that’s where his office was located). After the second season, Hawkins managed to win his case against the NBA [[which had banned him due to allegations that Hawkins was involved in sort of points shaving scandal in high school) and Hawkins was signed to the Phoenix Suns.

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    Any of Terry Pluto's books are great reads...he is a sportswriter for the major paper here in Cleveland, the Plain Dealer, and is a very insightful and knowledgeable writer.

    Best,

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark speck View Post
    Any of Terry Pluto's books are great reads...he is a sportswriter for the major paper here in Cleveland, the Plain Dealer, and is a very insightful and knowledgeable writer.

    Best,

    Mark
    No kidding....I'm such a fan I read "48 Minutes", a book he co-wrote with Boston sportswriter, Bob Ryan.....twice. The book was about one regular season game between the Celtics and the Cavs.....minute by minute.

    I just watched the ABA slam dunk contest on NBA TV a couple of nights ago. It was a lot different than today's format. You had to make 2 under the basket....then one from outside of 10 feet....then dunks approaching the basket at various angles. Artis and The Dr. each started their routines by dunking 2 basketballs at once from under the basket. David Thompson was a big crowd fave back then.....but he missed one of his dunks and sulked his way out of the contest.

    MD fans are still smarting over Moses Malone entering the league instead of hooking up with Lefty.

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