Obama, same sex marriage and the African American community

[smark21]

Interesting article:

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...lack-community

[soulster]

I don't know about religion, but homosexuality has always been taboo with Black Americans.

I'm a straight Black guy, and was once against gays too, but now I do not care if they get married. It's about civil rights for all, not just for straights.

[timmyfunk]

I think that homosexuality is taboo for a lot of ethnic groups. Latinos, the Irish, and the Italians have more than their share of issues with gays.

[Roberta75]

I think that homosexuality is taboo for a lot of ethnic groups. Latinos, the Irish, and the Italians have more than their share of issues with gays.

Terribly sad that intolerance, hate and bigotry towards any minority regardless of race or sexual orientation is still alive in 2012.

I pray to God every night to put an end violence, war, intolerance and hate. I'm sure he shakes his head in disbelief the way we treat people who are not like us.

Roberta

[juicefree20]

I'll start by saying that I have some issues with what this guy is asserting, as I feel that he's painting the Black community with an unfairly negative brush. That he is a Black man only heightens my disdain for his assertments.

First of all...What in the hell makes this man believe that President Obama HAS to say anything as though he's representing the Black community as a whole?

Second: What in the hell makes him believe that anything that President Obama has to say is going to make even one less Black or religious person feel as they do about homosexuality, any more than anything that Bush or anyone else changed in the hearts of bigots? What is he supposed to be a damn magician?

Third: This guy quotes some damn poll numbers as though they're written in stone. He quotes these poll numbers as though everyone answering a poll gives their honest opinions when asked. So this gentleman honestly believes that people don't lie when polled? If I were to believe every poll ever given, I'd also be stupid enough to believe that bigotry & racism no longer exist. That is, if I believe many of those polled whom were not people of color.

We know better than that, now don't we?

Fourth & finally...This guy places the blame on Blacks disproportionate dislike of homosexuality on their Christianity. And I ask myself has this guy never heard of the Bible Belt & other places who share similar mores, yet are decidedly NON-Black? Has this guy never been exposed to attitudes of NON-Blacks toward Gay people of ANY color or ethnicity? And what about other churches of varying hues & doctrines which are also anti-gay?

Sorry but from where I sit, his opinion seems to be rooted more in ignorance, than it is fact & only perpetuates a stereotype which is patently unfair.

I won't demonize any other ethnicity or creed by calling them out specifically, because that would be tantamount to painting a lot of innocent people with the same nasty brush. With that said, I will say that Blacks hold no hammerlock on bias against Gays, as over the years many beatings, murders & assaults have been perpetrated against victims of ALL colors & ethnicities by very NON-Black thugs. If it's his desire, I can point him into the direction of a lot of other peoples of color whom are as anti-gay in numbers as large as he believes we Blacks to be.

Assault & bias against Gays or anyone else is intolerable, but it pisses me off when some self-appointed "expert" presumes to play analyst & unfairly paints a decidedly half-assed portrait of one race in the process of making his point. Are there Blacks whom are biased & anti-gay? Certainly there are & more than there should be. But the TRUE question is this: is that number any more disproportionate that that of any other minority group or ethnicity, or even Whites, for that matter? And if so, then exactly what methodology is being used to substantiate such a claim? Uncle Earl? Aunt Flo or the neighbor down the block?

How this BLACK man can make that statement with any true degree of authority without citing anything other than some jive-assed survey & no other official statistical fact to back up his claim is simply piss-poor reportage at best & an out & out lie, at worst.

Perhaps he'd be better served relying less on those surveys & perhaps lean more upon actual reports from the organizations who actually track these assaults.

I'm sure history would show that they'd paint a slightly different picture if he were to do that, but why let things called "facts" & "history" get in the way of whatever point it is that one is trying to make?

Suggesting that President Obama has any responsibility is ridiculous, as this problem has been a problem long before he got a sniff of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue & there isn't a damn thing that President Obama has to say about bias whether it's against Blacks, Latinos or Gays going to magically change what's in the hearts of card-carrying bigots anywhere.

Folks like him need to stop putting issues such as this on President Obama & perhaps be a little more proactive in pushing through legislation which makes this kind of nonsense illegal & creates laws which have more teeth in them to punish the aggressors more severely for their bigoted & biased behavior & actions.

If this guy really believes this then he really needs to get out more & experience life a bit more as opposed to relying on polls which DO NOT poll the vast majority of Americans, but in fact is a microscopic sampling of the American population as a whole.

[soulster]

Terribly sad that intolerance, hate and bigotry towards any minority regardless of race or sexual orientation is still alive in 2012.

I pray to God every night to put an end violence, war, intolerance and hate. I'm sure he shakes his head in disbelief the way we treat people who are not like us.

Roberta

And, they all hide behind religion. My father, who was an atheist, used science and Darwinism to justify his rejection of homosexuality.

[timmyfunk]

I'll start by saying that I have some issues with what this guy is asserting, as I feel that he's painting the Black community with an unfairly negative brush. That he is a Black man only heightens my disdain for his assertments.

First of all...What in the hell makes this man believe that President Obama HAS to say anything as though he's representing the Black community as a whole?

Second: What in the hell makes him believe that anything that President Obama has to say is going to make even one less Black or religious person feel as they do about homosexuality, any more than anything that Bush or anyone else changed in the hearts of bigots? What is he supposed to be a damn magician?

Third: This guy quotes some damn poll numbers as though they're written in stone. He quotes these poll numbers as though everyone answering a poll gives their honest opinions when asked. So this gentleman honestly believes that people don't lie when polled? If I were to believe every poll ever given, I'd also be stupid enough to believe that bigotry & racism no longer exist. That is, if I believe many of those polled whom were not people of color.

We know better than that, now don't we?

Fourth & finally...This guy places the blame on Blacks disproportionate dislike of homosexuality on their Christianity. And I ask myself has this guy never heard of the Bible Belt & other places who share similar mores, yet are decidedly NON-Black? Has this guy never been exposed to attitudes of NON-Blacks toward Gay people of ANY color or ethnicity? And what about other churches of varying hues & doctrines which are also anti-gay?

Sorry but from where I sit, his opinion seems to be rooted more in ignorance, than it is fact & only perpetuates a stereotype which is patently unfair.

I won't demonize any other ethnicity or creed by calling them out specifically, because that would be tantamount to painting a lot of innocent people with the same nasty brush. With that said, I will say that Blacks hold no hammerlock on bias against Gays, as over the years many beatings, murders & assaults have been perpetrated against victims of ALL colors & ethnicities by very NON-Black thugs. If it's his desire, I can point him into the direction of a lot of other peoples of color whom are as anti-gay in numbers as large as he believes we Blacks to be.

Assault & bias against Gays or anyone else is intolerable, but it pisses me off when some self-appointed "expert" presumes to play analyst & unfairly paints a decidedly half-assed portrait of one race in the process of making his point. Are there Blacks whom are biased & anti-gay? Certainly there are & more than there should be. But the TRUE question is this: is that number any more disproportionate that that of any other minority group or ethnicity, or even Whites, for that matter? And if so, then exactly what methodology is being used to substantiate such a claim? Uncle Earl? Aunt Flo or the neighbor down the block?

How this BLACK man can make that statement with any true degree of authority without citing anything other than some jive-assed survey & no other official statistical fact to back up his claim is simply piss-poor reportage at best & an out & out lie, at worst.

Perhaps he'd be better served relying less on those surveys & perhaps lean more upon actual reports from the organizations who actually track these assaults.

I'm sure history would show that they'd paint a slightly different picture if he were to do that, but why let things called "facts" & "history" get in the way of whatever point it is that one is trying to make?

Suggesting that President Obama has any responsibility is ridiculous, as this problem has been a problem long before he got a sniff of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue & there isn't a damn thing that President Obama has to say about bias whether it's against Blacks, Latinos or Gays going to magically change what's in the hearts of card-carrying bigots anywhere.

Folks like him need to stop putting issues such as this on President Obama & perhaps be a little more proactive in pushing through legislation which makes this kind of nonsense illegal & creates laws which have more teeth in them to punish the aggressors more severely for their bigoted & biased behavior & actions.

If this guy really believes this then he really needs to get out more & experience life a bit more as opposed to relying on polls which DO NOT poll the vast majority of Americans, but in fact is a microscopic sampling of the American population as a whole.

Absolutely on point Juice.

[Roberta75]

The NAACP just came out in favor of gay marriage and my pastor supports gay marriage so as a straight woman who's favorite nephew is a gay man and who's dear friend at work is a lesbian lady, I say thank you Mr. President, thank you NAACP and thank you Pastor Beckwith.

Lets put an end to all discrimination.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

In all the controversy over gay marriage, I was quite shocked to find out the black community could be as opposed to gay marriage as segments of it seem to be.

This is a fairly dead issue in a lot of Western Europe and Canada. There is no going back on it.

Thank Goodness for Joe Biden and for Barack Obama standing up to it all.

In a couple of years, it will be a big nothing...........even in Jackson, Mississippi.

[soulster]

In a couple of years, it will be a big nothing...........even in Jackson, Mississippi.

You're wrong. Trust me on that!

[144man]

Is the black community in the US so homogenous that you can say all sections male and female, rich and poor, city- and country-dwellers, Christians and atheists all oppose gay marriage? If this true what is the level of opposition - 60%, 70%, 80%?

[soulster]

Is the black community in the US so homogenous that you can say all sections male and female, rich and poor, city- and country-dwellers, Christians and atheists all oppose gay marriage? If this true what is the level of opposition - 60%, 70%, 80%?

The Black community is not homogeneous, and they are no different from Whites.

What i'm saying is that the U.S. has an awful lot of evangelical christians who won't let the issue die. They are opposed to it because they believe it is opposed to in the bible. Others oppose it because it is repulsive to them. I guess the idea of two women getting it on isn't as offensive as two guys going at it. It's just like the racists not letting the birther issue go away.

[144man]

In the UK, Christianity has been in a slow decline over the whole of my lifetime. Are there no signs of evangelical Christians losing their power-base?

Incidentally the revival of the birther issue just makes the USA the laughing-stock of the outside world.

[soulster]

In the UK, Christianity has been in a slow decline over the whole of my lifetime. Are there no signs of evangelical Christians losing their power-base?

Incidentally the revival of the birther issue just makes the USA the laughing-stock of the outside world.

Here's the problem in the U.S.: while the evangelical christians and the birthers are small in number, they are very loud and powerful, and have an awful lot of stooges in government who want their vote.

It's crazy: we broke from British rule for freedom of and from religion, and here are the same people claiming that we are a nation founded on christianity, and are trying to force us all to live by their interpretation of the bible.

They do not care if we are the laughing stock of the world because they don't care about the rest of the world. According to these people, the world is full of atheists and muslims who deserve to die unless they convert. Hmmm...sounds familiar, doesn't it?.

[144man]

I am probably being unfair to the Democrats in thinking that they should have dealt more effectively with the issue of the President's birth certificate.

Even my own experiences on this site [[and I think you know the threads I'm talking about) have made me realise that you can present overwhelming evidence as clearly and calmly as possible, but there will still be those who will illogically choose to disbelieve it no matter what you say or do.

[soulster]

I am probably being unfair to the Democrats in thinking that they should have dealt more effectively with the issue of the President's birth certificate.

We shouldn't have had to deal with it at all. I'm a Democrat, but I wish my party would grow a pair and start acting like they want to win. They hem and haw over how to handle the latest pile of poo the republicans dish up. They keep thinking they can ride above it all and the more level-headed public will just vote our way, but they have to learn to play dirty like republicans do. They are masters at it.

Even my own experiences on this site [[and I think you know the threads I'm talking about) have made me realise that you can present overwhelming evidence as clearly and calmly as possible, but there will still be those who will illogically choose to disbelieve it no matter what you say or do.

That's the way this country is. They are largely ignorant and full of denial. They republicans have learned how to play that to their advantage.