Invictus Records

[masterblaster]

Where was the Invictus label set up by HDH located?
If it was in Detroit, did any of Motown's musicians record there when Motown relocated to LA?

[ivyfield]

Where was the Invictus label set up by HDH located?
If it was in Detroit, did any of Motown's musicians record there when Motown relocated to LA?

HDH made a studio out of an old cinema and I think it was located in L.A. The ladies to check this with are Scherrie & Joyce - they sang on a lot of the labels output - including adding bv's to Chairmen of the Board's tracks [[like the Andantes did for the Tops)

[Hotspurman]

The singles sleeves for later issues gave a Detroit address of 2601 Cadillac Tower, Detroit, Michigan, 48226.

[ralpht]

Ivy,
HDH had their studio in Detroit and, yes, it was a former movie theater.

[RossHolloway]

Does anyone know when HDH started to sign and record artists? I've never read much about what HDH did immediately after they left Motown the early part of 1968. Where they prevented from writing/recording/producing music because of the litigation with Motown? I've also thought that it was strange that aside from Brenda Holloways recordings, that no other Motown act or group went and signed with HDH despite their huge success with Motown.

[randy_russi]

Because of the lawsuits with Motown, HDH put out their early product under other names. It was strange, however.
Edna Wright of Honey Cone said she was signed to Motown, but recording for Invictus-Hot Wax. I am sure
many musicians that played on Motown product played on the Invictus-Hot Wax material.

[bradsupremes]

A lot of the Invictus/Hot Wax recordings have a certain sound so similar to Motown was due to the fact that the Funk Brothers were playing on those sessions. I believe Dennis Coffey or Ray Monette once posted which Funk Brothers were playing on "Band of Gold" and "Give Me Just A Little More Time." I want to say at least 7 or 8 Funk Bros. were playing on both of those songs. Take a listen to the Honey Cone's "Sunday Morning People" and you'll swear it was cut down in Studio A at Hitsville.

Due to the lawsuits, HDH were prevented from writing for several years under their own name but that didn't stop them. If you notice on a lot of the Invictus/Hot Wax songs there is a certain songwriter named "Edythe Wayne" who is credited with another guy, Ron Dunbar. Edythe Wayne was the alias for HDH. I believe one of the Holland brothers stated they had an aunt with that name so they used it. Around 1971 or 1972, Holland-Dozier-Holland's names began to be credited on their songs.

[ivyfield]

Ivy,
HDH had their studio in Detroit and, yes, it was a former movie theater.

Kool! I wasn't quite sure and couldn't check with Scherrie right away as the ladies are performing in Hamburg tonight and tomorrow.

[roger]

DENNIS COFFEY in his book "Guitars, Bars & Motown Superstars", states that he played on a lot of the Invictus material, including big hits such as "Band Of Gold", "Want Ads" and "Give Me Just A Little More Time", whilst at the same time appearing on Motown sessions for artists like THE TEMPTATIONS and GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS. As he was a freelance session musician he was able to do this quite legitimately.

However, back to the original question from Masterblaster, by the time Motown shut down their Detroit studios wasn't Invictus/Hot Wax already imploding?

Roger

[ralpht]

Probably so, Roger. By the time Motown shut the doors the entire Detroit music scene was pretty much on the decline.

[BayouMotownMan]

Invictus had waned pretty badly by 1973 but still had some minor soul hits on Honey Cone, Chairman of the Board. Invictus's best year was 1970

[randy_russi]

Invictus-Hot Wax was a "hot" company for a while, but then it just came to an abrupt end.

[BayouMotownMan]

They had distribution problems toward the end and also, soul music was getting more "street" and HDH was sticking with the polished, over-the-top arrangements. They made some great music however.

[BayouMotownMan]

HDH formed their company in 1968 and the signing began immediately.

I don't know how Edna Wright could be signed to Motown. There's something funny about this. Unless they had signed some previous contract with Motown but I've no doubt that Gordy would have blocked them from recording for HDH.

Most of the artists at Motown had extended contracts with one year options at Motown's discretion. For most, by the time the contracts ended Invictus' heyday had passed. Also keep in mind that Invictus was smaller than Motown so most artists leaving the company had their sights on bigger recording companies who offered more money.

[tamla617]

in ralph's excellent book "the road through motown"

some of the early invictus tracks were recorded in ralph's terra shirma B studio

[snakepit]

Bought the HDH complete 45s box set last year.
Just got around to playing it and enjoying the tracks that I haven't heard before.
Of course I am familiar with the well known tracks , but there's a lot to get into here, along with some 'strange' items...all part of the fun.
Enjoying CD #5 quite a lot.

[snakepit]

The singles sleeves for later issues gave a Detroit address of 2601 Cadillac Tower, Detroit, Michigan, 48226.

I seem to remember seeing Cadillac Square [[I think) when travelling on the Detroit People Mover.....it was a 'tick' on the Detroit experience....I presume this was the location of the Invictus studio?

[snakepit]

The Invictus label logo, incorporating ,The Thinker, MUST have been inspired by the Thinker Statue at Detroit Arts Museum....HDH must have had this in mind ?
Akso, this statue features on 2 Motown albums......
anybody care to guess which 2?

[MIKEW-UK]

I only know the one album....

[MIKEW-UK]

Although I always thought the Hear My Dear album "borrowed" Rodin imagery...

[snakepit]

One more that I know of ....

[theboyfromxtown]

The Originals

[carole cucumber]

]

The Originals

And to be more specific, the def.i.ni.tions back cover

[theboyfromxtown]

I don't know how to post pictures Carole

Thank you!

[Sotosound]

They had distribution problems toward the end and also, soul music was getting more "street" and HDH was sticking with the polished, over-the-top arrangements. They made some great music however.

In terms of soul music getting more "street", an equally significant factor was possibly the arrival of Philadelphia International and Sigma Sound Studios as a major force.

IMHO these guys did "polished" far better than Motown or Invictus, both in terms of arrangements and in terms of production values, and were consequently massive.

What's of interest is that many of the major rising Phil Int / Sigma Sound stars were of the same generation as the sometimes fading Motown and Invictus stars - they weren't a new generation of youth sweeping away what had gone before. Some even jumped across. [[Thinking Spinners here.)

Also, we had Al Green and the "Hi" sound. Far less smooth, and giving a 70s twist to the traditional Memphis sound.

These were some of the key sounds of the first half of the 70s and suddenly the old leaders had been overtaken. As a result, we had Motown remixing "Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music" by The Spinners to give it a Sigma-Thom-Bell-style of drum beat, and we had General Johnson on Invictus recording an Al Green soundalike track called "Only Time Will Tell". Shame, really, but that's showbiz.

[snakepit]

]




And to be more specific, the def.i.ni.tions back cover

E xcellent

[snakepit]

The Originals

Well done John

[jayedsel]

Invictus Records recorded at the old Tower Theater. Holland Dozier Holland Sound Studios was located at 12813 Grand River Detroit. Building is no longer there.

[robb_k]

HDH formed their company in 1968 and the signing began immediately.

I don't know how Edna Wright could be signed to Motown. There's something funny about this. Unless they had signed some previous contract with Motown but I've no doubt that Gordy would have blocked them from recording for HDH.

Most of the artists at Motown had extended contracts with one year options at Motown's discretion. For most, by the time the contracts ended Invictus' heyday had passed. Also keep in mind that Invictus was smaller than Motown so most artists leaving the company had their sights on bigger recording companies who offered more money.

Edna was probably referring to a contract she had signed with Motown, earlier, when she recorded as Sandy Wynns, when she sang backgrounds for Jobete Music's L.A. production group from 1963-66. I'd bet the house that she did NOT have a contract with Motown, when she signed with HDH in late 1968.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Bought the HDH complete 45s box set last year.
Just got around to playing it and enjoying the tracks that I haven't heard before.
Of course I am familiar with the well known tracks , but there's a lot to get into here, along with some 'strange' items...all part of the fun.
Enjoying CD #5 quite a lot.

I bought the "Complete Invictus 45's" CD box set, too, snakepit. Since I already have all of the Invictus/Hot Wax albums on CD [[which include the hit singles), I wasn't sure what to expect from this collection. Other than the occasional oddity that you mentioned, however, there are some real treasures contained within. Since this is a huge, 14-disc set, I was afraid of being overwhelmed by so much new material all at once as well as being bored by the duplicates that I already have. Instead, there are so many pleasant surprises throughout, the 14 CD's were a joy to wallow through from start to finish. I'm glad I bought it. It was worth every penny! - Gary

[theboyfromxtown]

I'm still playing it.

At the gym on a bike with the headphones on with the collection watching the Olympics on a huge TV monitor with subtitles!

Nothing beats that

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Now that's real multi-tasking, boyfromxtown!