Show Me The Money and Old forum members

**ms_m** · 03-25-2012, 02:09 AM

Not music related but I wanted to place this where it had a better chance of being seen. It may bring about unintentional consequences but what the hell....playing it safe is not my style....LOL

Yo Ralph, I have over 13k post, where’s my check? hahahahahahahaha

I apologize but I couldn’t help myself

…. but I also wanted to say something to any old members that may be reading this. Speaking for myself and myself only, I would love to see many of you return. The quality of the post, the knowledge and humor many of you brought to the forum is sorely missed and on many levels, the reason I joined SDF in the first place.

Things will never be the same of course but that doesn’t mean it can’t be good, maybe even better than before…who knows.

I realize many are busy with other things but if you ever find yourself in the neighborhood please stop in and say hello. We may not always agree but hell, life would truly be boring if we did.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 03-25-2012, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by ms_m

Not music related but I wanted to place this where it had a better chance of being seen. It may bring about unintentional consequences but what the hell....playing it safe is not my style....LOL

Yo Ralph, I have over 13k post, where’s my check? hahahahahahahaha

I apologize but I couldn’t help myself

…. but I also wanted to say something to any old members that may be reading this. Speaking for myself and myself only, I would love to see many of you return. The quality of the post, the knowledge and humor many of you brought to the forum is sorely missed and on many levels, the reason I joined SDF in the first place.

Things will never be the same of course but that doesn’t mean it can’t be good, maybe even better than before…who knows.

I realize many are busy with other things but if you ever find yourself in the neighborhood please stop in and say hello. We may not always agree but hell, life would truly be boring if we did.

Ms. M, I was going to post the same message a few weeks ago, but decided not to. But I agree with you. However, I was thinking that many of the old posters, or forum members, left because they thought SDF had become mean-spirited. But it's much worse these days because of a handful of members who are given free reign to bully and terrorize others , so some of the old timers might not want to return. But we do need more positive members to override the few cowards and dummies who sit at their computers all day long and bash others.

**ms_m** · 03-25-2012, 04:37 AM

You know Kam, I was just reading through a few front page threads and thought, oh hell, maybe I should just say neva mind....LOL

I can certainly understand if people decide not to come back but I wanted to put the welcome mat out just in case. Thanks for chiming in though, the more of us that speak up in a positive way the better.

**mellow_q** · 03-25-2012, 09:50 AM

Someone started a thread like this a few month ago. I think it was K-Dub.

I said it then, and I'll say it now: Mostly everyone who used to post all day every day on SDF now do it to a lesser degree on Facebook. Someone "shot me down" but I am sticking to what I said. At least this is true of the NY-based Forumers [[Dyva, Tres, Kev-Lo), who haven't been in here in ages. I leave Juice out of the equation, because he is rarely on Facebook anymore and he has previously come in here and stated why he doesn't post as often.

Just my three cents

Marc T.

**splanky** · 03-25-2012, 10:30 AM

Well...
I'm in New York too, but I don't do facebook for reasons I won't go into again at this time. Then, to me the problem
seems to be too many people had and still have agendas that have nothing to do with the music and motives more
malicious than social. I know we discuss other things in the clubhouse but for me the primary draw of this or any other
music forum is the exchange of ideas about old and new music, singers, groups and bands, songs or instrumentals or even different genres. Maybe there is a piece by someone I like and have never heard before or some aspect of an artist
I never knew about that someone here can clue me in on. I check for those things here. I can"t say what goes on in other
peoples heads but I hope those who have left are fine. Life goes on...

**paladin** · 03-25-2012, 11:05 AM

Mostly everyone who used to post all day every day on SDF now do it to a lesser degree on Facebook. Someone "shot me down" but I am sticking to what I said.

I can certainly understand if people decide not to come back but I wanted to put the welcome mat out just in case. Thanks for chiming in though, the more of us that speak up in a positive way the better.

Interesting comment Marc & Ms. M, when I see a post like this one, I just shake my head and wax nostalgic. Realizing that everything must change, I always thought that SDF was the best site on the web that covered the subject matter. I say "was" because in my opinion its no longer that. Somewhere along the way "we stopped having fun" . The jokes, merriment & camaraderie we shared somehow got twisted into vile and ugly proclamations not only about the artists but members themselves. As with many others I often wondered why this happened and I can't put my finger on any one reason or member. I am aware of the postings on Facebook and although they are less frequent and not nearly as cohesive as what is posted here on SDF, in most cases the biggest difference is the lack of anonymity. If you put something out there, you are accountable.

There were many artists who looked in and commented about their work here on SDF and that too has declined. Maybe all the vitriolic commentary and bashing has made them shy away, maybe they still lurk but won't comment . There have been several threads about the status quo of SDF and they too have resulted in mud slinging and name calling with very little thought or effort about getting back to the original business of the forum . Instead of SDF being the place to be, it has become more of a place to vacate.

I can remember us going on for days about a particular recording or performer while having meaningful exchanges and discoveries without a single crash or burn victim. Now they happen daily. I actually can trace a part of this cyber shift occurring about the time of Michael Jackson's death. There was a new forum member who started hijacking threads, praising and actually encouraging that we worship the fallen star. Some of the members where hood winked by this person, others were not. It wasn't a very good time and even though he was exposed for what he was it caused a shift in the forum and we haven't been the same since.

Ms. M , you, Ralph and many others have proposed the same proposition, many times over the past couple of years and even those statements are summarily rejected and replaced by vacuous comments like "well sure if you only get rid of this one or that one" ......honestly if I had the answer I'm not even sure I'd post it .....there are not many folk here who would read it, others who wouldn't try to understand it, many don't have the vested interest that some of the senior members have and of course some just don't care. I think David Byrne got it:

And You May Ask Yourself
What Is That Beautiful House?
And You May Ask Yourself
Where Does That Highway Go?
And You May Ask Yourself
Am I Right?...Am I Wrong?
And You May Tell Yourself
MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE?

Letting The Days Go By/Let The Water Hold Me Down

I ask myself, what in the hell have we done ?

Kdubya

**ms_m** · 03-25-2012, 12:15 PM

Guys, I'm putting out the welcome mat...if people want to accept, it's cool....if not that's cool too. For me, what's happened in the past.... distant past or recent past is history. I'm dealing with now, today...no more no less.

I've spoken to a few on FB and as I said, I realize people may be busy and I even stated it will not be the same....but the welcome from ME... still stands...and I'll probably continue to put it out out every now and then. Thanks for chiming in though, appreciate the comments.

**ms_m** · 03-25-2012, 12:50 PM

I was just thinking. I deal in a business where rejection is the norm. If I couldn't handle it, I would have walked a long time ago but if I had, I would have missed the rewards of the acceptances that come this way as well. If people want to return they will, if not they won't but I wanted folks to know, I'd welcome their return.

**arrr&bee** · 03-25-2012, 02:53 PM

Hi ms.m[wit yo fine self]i too miss the good times that were so much a part of the forum[some one commented on this now long ago]in spite of a few sourbellies i think that we still have the great core of forum members such as yourself and the other legends of sdf too numerous to name to ever let this place fall,so those of you out there reading this good message from ms.m[and i know you're reading]drop by kick off your shoes and sit a spell.

**ms_m** · 03-25-2012, 03:10 PM

LOL....my forever man of the year....thanks for stopping by Jai.

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 12:43 PM

I do my best to stop trouble before things get out of hand and am happy to oblige those that notice a problem and let me know about it. Will we ever have the same type of closeness we once had years ago? I doubt it. There are just way too many people for some sort of unity some some members keep looking for. I do wonder where some have gone, such as Dyva, and hope nothing has driven them away from here and continue to do what I can to keep all as happy as possible with the site. I have honestly entertained the possibility of stepping aside. Maybe after 10 years it is time for some fresh blood to call the shots here.

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 01:07 PM

Besides, does anyone realize what a drag it is for me to keep seeing the negative comments regarding the forum, and how things aren't like they once were. Well guess what? Nothing stays the same and change is inevitable, so deal with it and try and make this place as good as possible under the circumstance of evolution.

**edafan** · 03-26-2012, 01:25 PM

Ralph

I agree with you.

This forum is great.

Naybobs of negativism and wishing for the old days

Where else can you get super great artists like Caesar and Russell Thompkins Jr, etc,
and producers, technical experts like you and your bro to enlighten we forum members.

Life is good.

a longtime member

edafan

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 01:28 PM

Why thank you, edafan. Not too many places. I'd wager.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 01:30 PM

MsM,

I agree with you. But I'll give you my perspective as to why the return of some are unlikely...

The truth of the matter is that back in the heyday [[circa 2001 - 2008), most people were just happy to be chatting with legends. Because of that, a lot of things were taken for granted & some things received a pass. Opinions offered by some legends were simply taken as fact, as there were few here to neither comfirm nor refute claims. As time went on, other people whom were actually there began offering differing accounts of the truth & that caused a bit of a crack in the armor.

From my perspective, we went from being a forum where we took for granted that some were ''straight shooters'', to discovering that there were some heavy politics & personal agendas going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately, many of us learned far more about some folks than we ever wanted to know & some of what was learned took a bit of the shine off of what many of us THOUGHT that we knew about some of our favorites.

Where most of us who come with no particular agenda[[s) can admit our mistakes & even apologize for them, while trying to do better in the future, there are some who simply can't take that look into the mirror & simply say, "Hey, I f'd up, I'm sorry & let's let the past be the past".

They can't do this because to them, we "regular'' folks were & still are just that..."REGULAR" folks whom were & are expected to simply shut up & appreciate the jewels of wisdom which were/are imparted. Because this knowledge was being imparted, there were times when rudeness & denigration of CERTAIN artists was also an acceptible part of the package.

As one who watched & was a part of a lot of crap being played out, truthfully, none of what happened ever had to play out as it did. But once a lot of people whom were considered to be ''cool'' were able to be flipped by former ''enemies'' for the price of hanging at a few parties & things as such, it was pretty guaranteed that things woud never be quite the same again.

Despite some pretty nasty stuff being said & written, Ralph still extended several olive branches, but was rebuffed at every turn. A couple of the people who left simply weren't content to live & let live. They simply wanted everyone whom they viewed as threats to be eliminated. It was kinda like an attempt of palace coup & when Ralph didn't agree, "The Streets" is what we got.

For my part, that happened too long ago to continue to hold on to the anger of those days. I've seen & have been around most of the participants & it was just as I said that it would be. I believe that more than a few never really wanted to leave SDF, but once they got caught up in the hype, allowed themselves to get caught up with the lies, I don't believe that they could ever come back here knowing that a lot of people discovered how they really operate[[d).

For obvious reasons, as long as some of us like Dyva, Dollar Bill, Tres & myself remained, they would never be comfortable. Again, in the early days, a lot was taken for granted simply because of who was saying certain things. But once the friednships fractured & some of us began meeting people whom were also there back in the day, it would no longer be a matter of some being able to be the sole arbiters of truth, nor would it be possible for some to take credit for things which they may or may not have done in the past.

THAT was the biggest dynamic change, as well as one of the major reasons why it was desirous for some to be banned. When that didn't happen, some simply couldn't do what many others have done, which was simply to tuck the old ego into the pocket & simply chill.

And if you look around Facebook, you'll see why some haven't come back, because you'll see the same rants & the same "Me" syndrome. Facebook is designed so that one can cherry-pick their friends...friends whom will suck up everything that is said like a Hoover & that's where the egos of some are. They don't really want discussion, they want their words to go unchallenged & unquestioned & that would no longer fly here. Perhaps it would amongst the diehard fans whom aren't concerned with the truth, but are into worshipping names more because of the NAME & far less because of the TRUTH.

Ignorance is bliss & while some are content to live that way, many others aren't, which would make entering these doors a little uncomfortable for some.

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 01:33 PM

Good piece, Juice. Thanks.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 02:06 PM

Ralph,

I certainly hope that you don't contemplate resigning. I still have the thread where you introduced yourself, as well as the thread where you took over as moderator.

As for those who complain about you, they need to understand the history of this forum because the truth be told, had they been pulling the crap that they do today before you became moderator, they'd have been banned at a whim a long time ago.

They find you to be unfair, do they? I wonder how they'd have felt if you were the kind of guy who would ban them simply because a member of the forum wanted them to be banned over some personal bullshit which had nothing to do with the forum?

I wonder how they would feel if you banned them NOT because you violated any forum regulations, but simply because the owner didn't like you because of some political bullshit? I wonder how they would feel about the prospects of being banned because they made their personal lifestyle[[s) obvious & it wasn't appreciated here. Remember ''Stonewall'' & how quickly he got bounced from here for making his lifestyle more than obvious here? Ironically, despite the fact that he had been banned by someone OTHER THAN YOURSELF, it was an e-mail sent by "Stonewall" which mocked our "Malletcatraz" thread, which created the whole "Malletcatraz" mess to begin with.

Perhaps that's what some of your protagonists would like the forum to go back to? If so, that's rather humorous, as much of their shenanigan would've found them banned from here long ago, along with a dossier containing their IP addresses being monitored so thoroughly, that it would've put ol' J. Edgar to shame.

I know full well of the olive branches which you've extended several times in the past. The fact that some refused those olive branches has less to do with you & everything to do with people whom are unwilling to face up to their own short-comings & an inability to be a bit more humble around these parts.

Frankly, I believe that's a reasonably simple thing to do & the unwillingness of some to do so speaks volumes about what their agenda[[s) here were all along & in some cases, still are.

You do a thankless job which everyone thinks that they can do easily, but truthfully, they can't. That is, not without having their own agendas, prejudices & buddy system firmly set in place & the various side-taking in these petty arguments tells me that.

You can't please everyone, you never could & often times, you're damned if you do & damned if you don't.

No one agrees with every decision but from where I sit, you're doing a great job & I hope that you don't let anyone make you decide to leave.

One suggestion...the next time anyone says something defamatory about ANY Supreme, be it Mary, Diana, Jean, Susaye, whomever...BAN THEM FOR LIFE!!!

Another suggestion...anyone whose sole goal is to come through these doors to regurgitate [[for the 237,738th time) some crap that happened back in 1964, 1973, 1984...BAN THEM FOR LIFE!!! Because they're only here to stir crap & not here for anything productive, which only lowers the bar several notches.

The next time ANY forumer, be they posing as a ''peacemaker'', or simply one of the usual suspects, goes out of their way to escalate the SAME 25 YEAR-OLD ARGUMENT...BAN THEM FOR LIFE!!!

I say this because anyone who's too damn immature as to be incapable of stopping themselves from arguing the same arguments that they've been having for more than 10 years, over facts which have been stated continually for at least the last 7 years on this forum, doesn't deserve to be a member of this forum. They're not concerned about this forum & I would argue that they believe themselves to be bigger than this forum. In which case, they need to create a forum of their own so that they can continue hostilities away from the 99.9999999% of us for whom life didn't cease to exist in 1970 or thereabouts.

This isn't The National Enquirer, but it certainly appears as though some have confused the two, which certainly serves none of us well.

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 02:21 PM

You guys are missing my point. First of all, I don't think it's being negative to say the forum is not like it was. Obviously, change or not I'm still here so I deal with what is but it's not the same and that's a fact.

Second, this was me saying I welcome their return....if they show fine, if not fine but I don't see the problem with ME throwing out the olive branch....it's no sweat if they choose not to accept but why should that keep me from offering?

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 02:25 PM

Think about this for a sec....a simple offer from one forum member has turned into drama...why?

My offer stands, if you guys have a problem with it so be it but it still stands....although if it were me...after all this confusion, I'd probably stay away too.....I'm just sayin'

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 02:27 PM

I don't think we missed your point, MS.M, and it is well taken. And I don't want to give the impression that I'm complaining about things I deal with here. I was just wondering if after 10 years it may be time to give somebody else a shot at the reins.

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 02:36 PM

Ralph, if you're tired I can certainly understand but this was never about you leaving. Truth is, you go, I'm out too. I'm dealing with the change but I don't have the desire to deal with or get to know and understand a new moderator.

You have to do what's best for you but if you're contemplating leaving based on this thread....you're way off base as far as MY intent...and anyone got a problem with you ....I would say it's their problem and not yours but let me know what's up before you leave...if that's what you decide.

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 02:39 PM

I'm all for olive branches, MS.M. I recently went over to Soulful Planet to warn them about, what I perceived to be, a possible virus threat I had zapped here and noticed the same thing there. Boy, did good old Mixie barbeque me. I had some sort of nefarious agenda etc etc blah blah blah. She can't get over the fact that I referred to her as a "useless chick" way back when. She still hangs on to that with, apparently, great bitterness. Well, I guess my original call was spot on. She REALLY IS a useless chick. She put the blame squarely on two of her loyal members, Jeanie Scott and Dream, saying they were out to conspire against her. What absolute drivel. So Useless loses a couple of her four members. She may as well have had the virus.. Jeanie, Dream and I have buried the hatchet eons ago and I have made it clear that they would be welcomed at SD if they so choose to return. I know that Jeanie is extremely busy maintaning Jimmy Scott's Facebook page, as well as managing his career[[ I think you can relate to that), so her time may be limited. No matter, they are welcome to return to the forum as well as any from the past that left for various reasons.
I would be thrilled to have David Meikle re-join us. Who better? He started this whole deal. David, if your reading this, think about it.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 02:45 PM

Ms M

It's not a problem at all.

Honestly, I wish that they'd have accepted Ralph reaching out to them years ago because I don't believe that any of them truly wanted to leave. I believe that many got caught up in the madness & once they did, it made it virtually impossible for them to make that U-turn.

I believe that there's a lot of embarassment involved, some kinda exposed themselves & having seen a few around, I responded as I did.

It sad to say it but some were never here to talk WITH us...they were here to talk down TO us & not too many here these days would ever accept that kind of an approach.

The old chestnut "familiarity breeds contempt" comes to mind & one of the things which makes thinking back about the old forum seem so fond is the fact that many of us didn't know people as we came to know them during the forum blowouts. That/those exposition revealed a lot, far more than people whom wanted to present themselves as ''fair'', ''good'' would ever want known about themselves.

Knowing some of the parties involved, I'm just saying that a few can only feel comfortable in an environment where they can say what they want to say, with it being unquestioned. And other revelations which have been revealed by their own champions have only made things even more uncomfortable, which is why many have retreated to places like Facebook, where they can sort of control their own "reality", such as it is. A "utopia" where never is heard a contrary word, which makes me think that a return would be unlikely, as it would be problematic.

You & many others have shown an ability to apologize when you believe that you were wrong. You & many others have shown an ability to if not forgive & forget, to simply live & let live. More than 5 years later, some folks have never shown the same willingness.

I'm only saying that it's those factors that likely prevents such a return, which is a shame because the things which I've mentioned is something that is totally within their control, if only they wanted to do so.

Personally, I applaud your gesture & I do hope that many of whom have left return, if only because I believe that they brought something to the table, as well as the fact that I'm not a great fan of Facebook.

**soulster** · 03-26-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by ralpht

Besides, does anyone realize what a drag it is for me to keep seeing the negative comments regarding the forum, and how things aren't like they once were. Well guess what? Nothing stays the same and change is inevitable, so deal with it and try and make this place as good as possible under the circumstance of evolution.

I have tried many times to start music-related threads but they get little or no traction here.

Some of the oldtimers who complain about mean-spirited posters today have turned into those mean-spirited posters.

I am one of the oldtimers. I left for a few years and came back.

I am told that a lot of the tension on this forum comes from refugees from another forum that got too nasty, and those people brought their same mess to this place.

As a forum grows, it does not retain it's original flavor. That "small-town" atmosphere, where everyone knows each other and their eccentricities, goes away because you have a new crop of people who are not part of that original "inner circle". That creates cliques and that's where much of the tension and hostilities come from. It becomes an "us vs. them" mentality.

If the oldtimers would be more welcoming of the newbies, instead of looking at them like intruders on their little exclusive turf, this site would run smoother.

I have to laugh at those who talk about extending olive branches, and then go back to their unsociable ways.

No forum ever goes back to what it once was. Things change.

That's take on the matter.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 02:49 PM

Ms M.

I don't think that there's any drama involved. For my part, I gave an opinion as to why I doubt that it would happen. But there was no intent to create drama & I'm sorry if I gave anyone that impression.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 02:56 PM

I wish that somehow, I could wave a magic wand & go back to those days. This is the first forum that I ever joined & truthfully, the only one. Having never dealt with a forum, I never knew the ins & outs of such things.

I'm not one to "lurk". Either I'm there to say something, or I simply don't bother. I never understood the "lurking" aspect & I usually have too much to say about things to ever be satisfied as a "lurker". Which is why I found it funny to see a forumer speaking about how I felt about this forum during my extended absence, as everyone knows that I've always spoken for myself.

I admit that I'd love to see many of our old friends come back, because more than the addition of the gossipy types, it's their absence which has changed the feel of the forum more than anything.

And I hope that many of them would consider coming back.

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 03:08 PM

And I hope that many of them would consider coming back.

I welcome the various opinions Juice but that one sentence was all this thread was about

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 03:16 PM

Juice,
A while back, Bobby Eli and I buried the hatchet. He expressed an interest to return and I was all for it, but Vonnie[[Bobby's wife, for those of you that are new here)stopped it. She was afraid that things might not work and asked Bobby not to come back. you can't hang a woman for trying to protect the man she loves. Maybe someday things will change enough for this to happen. I hope so.

I miss Bobby. We had much in common, going all the way back to the very first rhythm date at Tera Shirma Studio B which Bobby actually played on. There was a time that we would mention that someday we belonged in the studio together. I always wondered what we might come up with under that sort of circumstances.

And don't get me started on Bobby's alter-ego, Paulie 3 Shoes. You haven't lived until he calls you on the phone as Paulie. He NEVER goes out of character for the entire conversation and I'm usually laughing my ass off by the time we hang up. Yeah, I miss the dude.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 03:17 PM

Soulster,

I have to humbly disagree with you as far as how "newbies" are treated by we oldsters on this site.

There may have been a time when it was that way but I believe that it's the fact that we lost many of our more senior members which may make it appear to be that way today. When I joined this site in late 2003, there were folks whom greeted newcomers. With that said, the forum was beginning to change during that period & truth-be-told, SDF was changing from a site that was dominated by Northern Soul & Detroit music & artists, to one that discussed a wider range of music.

And if you believe that newbies are treated dismissively these days, then you should've been here back then, when a statement such as "I don't like Northern Soul", would've gotten you one hell of a negative response & negative [[yet truthful) remarks spoken against our icons would've placed a bullseye dead on your back. It was more informative to be sure. With that said, there was a certain degree of exclusion & I'll leave it at that. In fact, many musical conversations which came along during that time simply wouldn't have been desired, as they didn't pertain to Northern Soul, much less Detroit Soul music. If not for the fact that Eli, Weldon & later, Jeannie joined & people were happy to be speaking with them, it may have taken longer to discuss the music of other regions here. There were times during discussions Soul Music of other regions when invariably someone would pop in to say, "What does that have to do with Detroit or Northern Soul?"

I can think of no kinder forumers than folks like Charisse, Oldies, Ms Joys, Jrlo, Handsome & several others whom used to greet newcomers with a smile. Members such as those NEVER got entangled in petty arguments, never harangued anyone & never lorded their seniority over anyone. I'm sure that folks such as ArrrrNBeee, Ms M & others still greet newcomers when they're aware that they're there.

We had so many members who made it a point to make people comfortable & it's the fact that members such as they spend more time on Facebook than they do here, that has changed the dynamic more than anything else.

I believe that people are in & out of here so much, that they may not take notice when new members join. It could also be that people tend to check certain threads which sound appealing & simply don't check through everything as we once did. I know that I don't check through threads as I once did, simply because I don't have the time to do so.

Check through the archives circa 2004-2006 for a few examples of what I'm speaking of.

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 03:28 PM

Juice,
I would always remark how nice it was the way newcomers were welcomed here. You may have noticed the thread I have stuck at the top in the Clubhouse, offering newcomers a place to introduce themselves. I stressed it wasn't required, but up the the individual.

The problem today probably stems from the 20 or 25 newcomers I approve for membership weekly. It would be a difficult task to greet all personally. I would hope that more use the thread in the clubhouse.

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 03:34 PM

Juice you have to remember, we had a lot of high profile, strong willed and secure people back then. They could be intimidating if you didn't learn to develop a thick skin...many of us who hung in there developed that thicker skin so many things that were said tended to bounce off without a thought....or we said what we had to say and moved on. It wasn't perfect and there were always exceptions to the rule but it was a different vibe and you and I both know this. I guess that's why I was so shocked when all hell broke loose but hey....sht happens.

I never ever said I wanted things to be the same as they were, I explicitly said I knew that wouldn't happen....and I'm going to end it there before the name calling starts.

Have a great day Juice and all.....I know I started this thread but I've said what I wanted to say and I'm through with it.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 03:41 PM

Ralph,

I'm glad to hear that, as none of what happened should have ever happened. I felt that way now & I felt that way then.

Personally, I've seen him in Philadelphia at Weldon's memorial & even in N.Y. as recently as last Summer at The Ponderosa Stomp & things occurred just as I said that they would. Personally, I don't dislike him, on the other hand, anyone who would allow themselves to be manipulated into turning on friends for no good reason at all is someone whom I'd be crazy to place any trust or faith in.

I'm not one for anyone pulling my strings, nor trying to poison me against people whom have proven to be friends. I'm not one who takes well to anyone trying to manipulate me, which is why I eventually disassociate myself from anyone who tries to, or force me to choose sides by way of ultimatums. I hate utimatums. Having been there, I have quite a bit of insight about what you're saying & though I've never discussed it, I know what the problem is & with whom it originates. If not for that influence, Eli & myself would never have had a falling out over what amounted to nothing. A mutual friend explained the situation to me, so I know exactly what happened, as well as who egged it on. And all involved know that it was unnecessary.

That goes back to what I said about people having learned too much, as well as the inability for some to police themselves. What's sad is that there were indeed people who had agendas & when you have an ego & people know what buttons to push, you end up with what we got here...an unnecessary mess.

As for it "not working out", it's not my call, but I disagree. All that anyone would expect of anyone is civility, manners & behavior that would be expected of any forum member.

Unfortunately, some would encourage other to see ghosts, where no ghost exists & everyone's the worse for it.

Are you serious when you say that the same person whom dedicated threads to expose yourself & me, who 2 years later created threads which said the exact opposite of what they said just a few short years earlier, has now turned on Jeannie?

I'm really sorry to hear that, as I have no problem with Jeannie & miss talking about Jimmy, whom is a prince of a guy! Man...you can't make this stuff up! The internet is a trip!

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 03:50 PM

Ms M...

Touche', Touche' & TOUCHE'!!!

**ralpht** · 03-26-2012, 03:52 PM

Thanks for that last sentence, Juice. It made me laugh.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 04:31 PM

Ralph,

Glad to be of assistance

I really have to admit something. Considering my age, I have to admit that when I joined this forum, I was pretty wet behind the ears.

Had anyone told me that people behave as I've come to learn that many do on the internet, I'd have thought that they were lying. I had no idea of the various agendas that people bring with them to the internet. I was just really getting into the internet around 1998 & never knew that forums existed, nor was I interested in them. I was so nuts, that I didn't even understand Napster & why people would want to search for music over the internet. I honestly didn't get it.

Suffice to say, I may have learned rather late, but boy, did I learn!!!

There are a few folks who I miss around here. Maybe I can send out a few messages.

As Ms M pointed out, no one said that things would be EXACTLY the same. But that sure doesn't mean that things can't be similar to how they used to be.

I'm with Ms M. I believe that it's worth a shot. It's sure a damn sight better than having to negotiate through the 1,987,673rd episode of "I HATE________________"

Fill in the artist, record executive or Supreme of your choice!

**ms_m** · 03-26-2012, 05:12 PM

I lied, I'm back...and I agree Juice.

Personally, I don't care if people want to do TMZ Parts 1 through 45. I laugh at some of it, shake my head at some and ignore most of it but back in the day the gossip was more first hand variety, I was there variety. Versions of the same event would sometimes differ but sometimes people don't see the same event the same way but at least folks were up close and personal so there was authenticity to it all. Not to mention, adults acted like adults. We could be silly as all get out at times but even the silliness was of the adult variety and would go right over your head if you weren't quick. LOL.....You HAD to THINK back then, you had to be quick on your feet to keep up because there was some serious knowledge being dropped, opinions with serious facts to back it up... I miss that

There's more than enough room around here for that again without disrupting whatever it is people want to talk about and maybe...just maybe, the newcomers would understand what us old-timers have been talking about and want to change their ways...or maybe not but there isn't any harm in trying. If it doesn't happen, oh well, we all go back to doing whatever it is we do but doing nothing at all will never make things happen.

**juicefree20** · 03-26-2012, 05:41 PM

Ms M,

I definitely agree with you.

I don't understand why folks who tend not to like one another simply don't choose to ignore one another. There's enough room for everyone to have their own space. I'm sure that each & every one of us have run across a thread that we didn't like or have seen folks whom were a bit over-the-top.

With that said, many of us have forgotten something & that's that if we see threads that we don't like or read an opinion that we don't like, we can simply choose to skip those threads. We don't need Ralph to moderate that, when it's easy enough for us to moderate ourselves.

For my part, no on-going argument that some may choose to engage with would make me stay away from here. Now, behavior from folks whom pose as "friends" might, but certainly not some silly arguments over singing groups or anything of the like would disgust me to the extent of keeping me away.

There is no reason that I can think of which should prevent people from simply living & letting live. Personally, I would have no problem with anyone coming back, because whereas back then, I tended to take things & people at face value. I'm no longer the person I used to be because I've learned. Today, I know how to deal with them. Though I don't like some thing that happened, I harbor no animosity toward anyone, as that's a waste of time, not to mention that holding onto anger for nearly 7 years is a rather counter-productive way to live & somewhat hazardous to ones health.

We lived, we've learned & by now, should've moved on. Besides, no animals were killed in those productions, the village virgin is still intact, so, if people were to come back in peace, I see no reason for any hostilities.

Life's just too damn short & there are bigger & more important fish to fry.

Like folks whom are trying to legislate our futures away & idiots who the law allows to "Don't Back Down" & in the process, to ''legally'' murder young men armed with the dangerous weapon known as "Skittles".

Now THAT is something worth getting worked up about.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 03-27-2012, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by juicefree20

MsM,

I agree with you. But I'll give you my perspective as to why the return of some are unlikely...

The truth of the matter is that back in the heyday [[circa 2001 - 2008), most people were just happy to be chatting with legends. Because of that, a lot of things were taken for granted & some things received a pass. Opinions offered by some legends were simply taken as fact, as there were few here to neither comfirm nor refute claims. As time went on, other people whom were actually there began offering differing accounts of the truth & that caused a bit of a crack in the armor.

From my perspective, we went from being a forum where we took for granted that some were ''straight shooters'', to discovering that there were some heavy politics & personal agendas going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately, many of us learned far more about some folks than we ever wanted to know & some of what was learned took a bit of the shine off of what many of us THOUGHT that we knew about some of our favorites.

Where most of us who come with no particular agenda[[s) can admit our mistakes & even apologize for them, while trying to do better in the future, there are some who simply can't take that look into the mirror & simply say, "Hey, I f'd up, I'm sorry & let's let the past be the past".

They can't do this because to them, we "regular'' folks were & still are just that..."REGULAR" folks whom were & are expected to simply shut up & appreciate the jewels of wisdom which were/are imparted. Because this knowledge was being imparted, there were times when rudeness & denigration of CERTAIN artists was also an acceptible part of the package.

As one who watched & was a part of a lot of crap being played out, truthfully, none of what happened ever had to play out as it did. But once a lot of people whom were considered to be ''cool'' were able to be flipped by former ''enemies'' for the price of hanging at a few parties & things as such, it was pretty guaranteed that things woud never be quite the same again.

Despite some pretty nasty stuff being said & written, Ralph still extended several olive branches, but was rebuffed at every turn. A couple of the people who left simply weren't content to live & let live. They simply wanted everyone whom they viewed as threats to be eliminated. It was kinda like an attempt of palace coup & when Ralph didn't agree, "The Streets" is what we got.

For my part, that happened too long ago to continue to hold on to the anger of those days. I've seen & have been around most of the participants & it was just as I said that it would be. I believe that more than a few never really wanted to leave SDF, but once they got caught up in the hype, allowed themselves to get caught up with the lies, I don't believe that they could ever come back here knowing that a lot of people discovered how they really operate[[d).

For obvious reasons, as long as some of us like Dyva, Dollar Bill, Tres & myself remained, they would never be comfortable. Again, in the early days, a lot was taken for granted simply because of who was saying certain things. But once the friednships fractured & some of us began meeting people whom were also there back in the day, it would no longer be a matter of some being able to be the sole arbiters of truth, nor would it be possible for some to take credit for things which they may or may not have done in the past.

THAT was the biggest dynamic change, as well as one of the major reasons why it was desirous for some to be banned. When that didn't happen, some simply couldn't do what many others have done, which was simply to tuck the old ego into the pocket & simply chill.

And if you look around Facebook, you'll see why some haven't come back, because you'll see the same rants & the same "Me" syndrome. Facebook is designed so that one can cherry-pick their friends...friends whom will suck up everything that is said like a Hoover & that's where the egos of some are. They don't really want discussion, they want their words to go unchallenged & unquestioned & that would no longer fly here. Perhaps it would amongst the diehard fans whom aren't concerned with the truth, but are into worshipping names more because of the NAME & far less because of the TRUTH.

Ignorance is bliss & while some are content to live that way, many others aren't, which would make entering these doors a little uncomfortable for some.

Great piece Juicefree. I was here and witnessed what went down and sad thing is it didn't have to end the way it did. I still feel the forum would be better if certain individuals were reigned in and not given carte blanche to bully and terrorize others. I no longer deal with this people and just ignore them as I would if I knew them. But that's just my opinion.

**nosey** · 03-27-2012, 11:54 AM

Since I had no nickel in that dollar [[drama), I would love to see Soul Sister, Dream, Vonnie, Bobby Eli and some others return. I attempted to join Soulful Planet but ALWAYS found it hard to post. For some reason my password wouldn't work so out of frustration, I just gave up.

I know we can't go backwards but the above mentioned folk had a lot to offer and I learned sooo much from them. I loved Soul Sisters inside dope; girlfriend could and should write a book. For those that don't like the above mentioned folk, just hit the ignore button. Your fight is not my fight.

**mickeymac** · 03-27-2012, 03:37 PM

My two cents.

As some of yall I have posted over on Soulful Planet. I just want to say to you Ralph that I am thrilled that you Jeannie and Dream have buried the hatched and are friends. The warning you tried to issue over on SP from what I could tell was a friendly gesture on your part, and for reasons unknown Mixey went off the deep end accusing Dream and Jeanie of being in conspirary with you. The poor girl needs help. In the end she ended up alienated Dream and Jeanie and they want nothing to do with that thread anymore. I even tried to reason with her, but she went on about how you Ralph are the reasons behind her woes. You cant reason with someone who has lost touch with reality. As for me I am no longer posting on that site. Ralph you once predicted that SP would limp along and evolve into much. Time has proven you right, and Mixey brought down that site all her own. Maybe Mixey should write the next book on the JFK assassination because she sees conspiracy everywhere.

Also I hope you will stay on and be the monitor here.

Thats all I wanted to say.

**ralpht** · 03-27-2012, 03:40 PM

Mickey,
I noticed you had my back over there. Thanks, dude. Much appreciated. Yeah, I think Mixie needs some serious help.

**soulster** · 03-27-2012, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by juicefree20

Ms M,

I definitely agree with you.

I don't understand why folks who tend not to like one another simply don't choose to ignore one another. There's enough room for everyone to have their own space. I'm sure that each & every one of us have run across a thread that we didn't like or have seen folks whom were a bit over-the-top.

I only ignore people when they become insulting. That does bait me, but the best way to handle people who can't help but take digs is to ignore them, especially when they never apologize.

I am, and have been on many forums over the the last 15 years, mostly music and audio forums, and the best way to deal with problem people is to ignore them. It's not about not wanting a dialog with them. You can't change a sociopath, but you can ignore them.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 03-27-2012, 04:02 PM

Ralph, I'm glad you patched things up with Jeannie Scott too. She was one of my favorite people when she was here. I can understand if she's busy maintaining the legacy of her husband, but wish she'd return. But if not, life goes on. Is there still such a thing as Soulful Planet? I noticed some time back that they had a dust up there as they did here and some members left it too. I thought it had died out.

**ralpht** · 03-27-2012, 04:29 PM

Kam,
Yeah, I'm pleased to be back on good terms with Jeanie. I'm not sure if she plans on returning to SD, but she is more than welcome.

From what I can see, regarding SP, is that, since Jeanie and Dream left that leaves two other members besides Mixie.

This is the Mixie that would admonish me for banning things on the forum. She is dealing with five people and I have many, many to worry about. I used to wonder how she would handle running this place.

**ms_m** · 03-27-2012, 04:32 PM

Well Soulster, brace yourself and get ready to call me another bitch for what you will perceive as another insult because you have a piss poor way of ignoring me and I truly wish you would find a way to perfect it.

**ms_m** · 03-28-2012, 03:17 PM

Back on the ranch....

Ms. M [[ms_m)
3-Pundit
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2005 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:04 pm:

________________________________________
BJL
Thank You for the welcome. One of the most intriguing things I like about about SDF, not only do you learn about SWEET SOUL MUSIC, but about life,people and human nature... things that help you to think, reflect and grow.

MM

Looking through the archives can be a lot of fun….it's funny though, some people forget that whatever is said on the internet tends to stay around forever…..LOL…hint to the wise but anyhoo….the sentiments in the post I wrote [[above) shortly after I joined SDF is what really compelled me to let the old guard know how much you are missed.

If you can’t find your way back home, I’ll certainly understand but speaking for myself [[and as you have seen, a few others), we’ll always leave the light on for ya.

…things that help youy think, reflect and grow

those were the days...

**Roberta75** · 03-28-2012, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by ms_m

Well Soulster, brace yourself and get ready to call me another bitch for what you will perceive as another insult because you have a piss poor way of ignoring me and I truly wish you would find a way to perfect it.

LOL ms_m. His list of people he ignores must be longer than any list J. Edgar Hoover ever kept.

Roberta

**ms_m** · 03-28-2012, 04:31 PM

LOL, I hear ya Roberta but you know, sometime you look around and all you can do is a double face palm, shake your head, get pissed, get over it and keep on stepping.