Gladys Knight, why duplicate songs used?

[1382hitsville]

Hi all,

Recently I've been re-visiting the albums Gladys and her Pips made again and suddenly I realized...Motown used the same songs on different albums. For example:

Can You Give Me Love With A Guarantee - on album Standing Ovation [[1971) and A Little Knight Music [[1975)
Master Of My Mind - on album Knight Time [[1974) and Standing Ovation [[1971)

Why?

The Cellar Full Of Motown shows there was plenty of material to be released? Why use the same songs as album fillers? Can anyone enlighten me?

Gert

[nabob]

No answer to your question. Knight Time and A Little Knight Music were both issued after the group had left Motown in the dust and was burning up the charts on the Buddah Label. As with other record companies which have lost star thoroughbreds from their lagging positions at the former label, there was a move to cash in on the new found success.

Include Here I Am Again from If I Were Your Woman in 1971 and from All I Need Is Time in 1973.

[copley]

Motown were always doing that. 'Something' by Martha was on both 'Natural Resources' & 'Black Magic'. 'That's How Heartaches Were Made' & Uptown' were both on 'In Full Bloom' & 'The Return Of The Marvelettes'. I'm sure that there must be other examples. Why Motown did it when both groups had so much unreleased material in the faults is a complete mystery! Then there's the case of the same song being recorded twice by the same artist. 'It's Summer' by the Temptations was first on 'Psychedelic Shack' then re-recorded for 'Solid Rock'! 'Ain't No Sun Since You've Been Gone' was recorded twice by Gladys. Once on 'Everybody Needs Love' and then on 'Nitty Gritty'. Different recordings of 'Gonna Keep On Tryin' Till I Win Your Love' were on the Temptations 'Cloud 9' & 'Sky's The Limit.

[mysterysinger]

In the UK, "Dancing In The Street" appeared on 3 consecutive Martha and The Vandellas albums viz
TML11005 Heat Wave
TML11013 Dance Party
TML11040 Greatest Hits

[Ngroove]

Michael Jackson – “One Day In Your Life” – originally from 1975’s “Forever Michael” – rereleased as a single / album in 1981, obviously to cash in on his name while Epic’s “Off The Wall” was still hot, 1981, even hit number one in Britain!

[marv2]

No answer to your question. Knight Time and A Little Knight Music were both issued after the group had left Motown in the dust and was burning up the charts on the Buddah Label. As with other record companies which have lost star thoroughbreds from their lagging positions at the former label, there was a move to cash in on the new found success.

Include Here I Am Again from If I Were Your Woman in 1971 and from All I Need Is Time in 1973.

You have the correct answer Nabob! I was going to mention that. I bought those albums released after the group had left Motown. I bought the years later in the 80's because I was very into collecting and was a completist! I had to have every release by my favorite artists. I was pretty disappointed in those albums compared to what they had released at Buddah. Motown had a practice of releasing canned, competing material on their former artists once they moved on to a new label.

[roger]

As with other record companies which have lost star thoroughbreds from their lagging positions at the former label, there was a move to cash in on the new found success.

Lagging positions? What lagging positions??

New Found Success? What new found success??

I've never bought into this idea that Miss Knight left Motown due poor sales/poor material/declining promotion etc. etc. etc. etc. At the time she left Motown [[ late spring 1973? ) she had just had her biggest U.S. Billboard Hot 100 success since "I Heard It Through The Grapevine" in late '67/early '68 with "Neither One Of Us" .. not that there was much difference between the two ..

"Grapevine" was on the Hot 100 for 17 weeks, spending 3 weeks at #2. Debuting on 21st October 1967.
"Neither One Of Us" was on the Hot 100 for 16 weeks, spending 2 weeks at #2. Debuting on 27th January 1973.

The "Neither One Of Us" L.P. released on the back of the singles success of the song had become easily her Top charting selling L.P. to date .. reaching #9 on the U.S. Billboard "Pop" L.P. chart.

Internationally Miss Knight was finally getting established in Britain and other parts of Europe .. in the U.K. she had just had her biggest chart hit to date with "Help Me Make It Through The Night" .. 17 weeks on the U.K. "pop" chart, peaking at #11 and debuting on 25th November 1972. Indeed, if Tamla-Motown in London hadn't postponed the U.K. release of "Neither One Of Us" in favour of an old L.P. track "The Look Of Love" they may well have emulated the U.S. single success of "Neither One Of Us" in Britain.

GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS were HOT! HOT! HOT! when they left Motown and the way I see it is that the powers at Buddah records were smart enough to cash in on Miss Knight's lingering reluctance to have joined Motown in the first place and caught the wave that had been created by Mr Gordy's company.

Indeed, the mega-hit that the group had at Buddah .. "Midnight Train To Georgia" .. which has since become one of their signature tunes and the release that the revisionists tend to cite to illustrate the "failure" of the group at Motown was written by exactly the same person who wrote "Neither One Of Us" .. JIM WEATHERLEY .. so Buddah were hardly treading new ground for Miss Knight and her group by steering her in a more M.O.R./Country/Pop direction were they, they were merely continuing what had started at Motown!!

There was also not that much difference in the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 chart success of these two JIM WEATHERLEY songs that Miss Knight recorded either .. apart from the obvious "prestige" that "Midnight Train To Georgia" gained by actually getting to #1 rather than "only" peaking at #2.

"Neither One Of Us" was on the Hot 100 for 16 weeks, spending 2 weeks at #2. Debuting on 27th January 1973.
"Midnight Train to Georgia" was on the Hot 100 for 19 weeks, spending 2 weeks at #1, Debuting on 1st September 1973.

Roger

[nabob]

Lagging positions? What lagging positions??

New Found Success? What new found success??

Seems that I posted a bad choice of words. I agree that the Pips were HOT! HOT! HOT! at the time of their departure. I also agree that there was chart success almost from the beginning through Neither One of US. The Pips were never on the company's A-List when it came to promotion. They made themselves stars. What I attempted to express was that a former record company that did not necessarily promote recordings by a departed artist will definitely attempt to cash in on the success enjoyed in the artist's new incarnation. Sorry for not being clear.

[kenneth]

The promotion back then was that Gladys and the Pips didn't feel they got enough attention at Motown. Of course I love their Motown material, but I think Buddah took them into more of an adult contemporary vein especially with their "I Feel a Song" single and LP which also included their version of "The Way We Were." I think the Motown brass also tried putting Gladys into this mode, such as with their "Silk 'n Soul" album which included many covers. Ironically, I think the most AOC album they did while at Motown was their live "All in a Knight's Work" LP which had a supper club feel. It's one of the many albums I didn't appreciate at the time but which I came later to love.

There was so much talent in that group that I think they would have been as successful anywhere. I also enjoyed their Columbia material though it wasn't as popular as their earlier stuff on Buddah.

[BayouMotownMan]

By the time Neither One Of Us hit the charts, Gladys and her Pips were already negotiating a deal with Buddah. Gladys was never happy at Motown and signed on in 1966 because she was outvoted, but she was adamanant that if the guys decided to stay at Motown after they gave them an insultingly low offer [[something like $40K) that they would simply be The Pips.

After enjoying massive success at Buddah, Motown did what they typically did in these situations, rush-release product. The lps released after 1973 had little thought put in them which is why many songs were repeated. Martha Reeves left around the same time and had her MCA lp been a success there likely would have been a release of vault material on her as well. Instead, we got an Anthology on Martha

[kenneth]

Was the LP "All You Need is Time" also released after they left Motown? That's the way I remember it, but I'm not sure. I loved the title track and thought it was outstanding, and it was also more in the vein of their Buddah material, though the overall album I don't remember being that consistent.

[reese]

Was the LP "All You Need is Time" also released after they left Motown? That's the way I remember it, but I'm not sure. I loved the title track and thought it was outstanding, and it was also more in the vein of their Buddah material, though the overall album I don't remember being that consistent.

I think it might have been released right around the same time as their first Buddah album. I remember seeing an old TONIGHT SHOW where they sang both MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA and ALL I NEED IS TIME.

[kenneth]

Thanks Reese.

[roger]

I think it might have been released right around the same time as their first Buddah album. I remember seeing an old TONIGHT SHOW where they sang both MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA and ALL I NEED IS TIME.

I've been checking my books again folks ..

"All I Need Is Time" debuted on the Billboard Pop LP listings on 14th July 1973, whereas their first Buddah L.P. "Imagination" debuted three months later on 27th October 1973.

Their first Buddah 45 "Where Peaceful Waters Flow" [[yet another JIM WEATHERLEY song!!) hit the R&B listings on 23rd June 1973, so it looks like the "All I Need Is Time" L.P. was released by Motown just after their first Buddah single came out.

The "All I Need Is Time" single hit the Billboard R&B listings on 4th August 1973, three weeks before "Midnight Train To Georgia" hit the R&B charts [[which was a week before MTTG entered the Hot 100) and for a few weeks they were both on the charts together.

I'd have loved to have seen that show Reese.

Roger

[BayouMotownMan]

Great research Roger. Yes, as I recall, it was while Neither One Of Us was entering the Top 40 that Buddah announced the signing of Gladys and her Pips. I remember everyone being so surprised because they were enjoying a massive hit record.

I guess All they needed Was Time

[reese]

I'd have loved to have seen that show Reese.

Roger

A copy is in the library at the Museum Of TV & Radio in NYC. That's where I saw it.

[BayouMotownMan]

Can you access this online?

[reese]

Can you access this online?

I don't think so. You have to be a member, I believe.

However, there might be a YouTube clip that has the audio of ALL I NEED IS TIME, as done on the Tonight Show. But its accompanied by a still.

[mysterysinger]

Roy Orbison also recorded "All I Need Is Time" on his album "I'm Still In Love With You" issued in 1974.