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  1. #101
    RossHolloway Guest
    Those are some wonderful pictures of the group. Hopefully we'll be treated to more. Thanks for sharing those.

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Here you go:

    www.womr.org

    Tuesday, 6 to 9 PM, ET Hi guys.
    I don't know if the podcast is yet available but one is supposed to be sooner or later.
    I just searched the WOMR site - there's 2 shows available to listen to from the 'Nightflight' series. Go to podcasts/shows/nightflight and you'll find them. There isn't a direct link on the stations homepage. The broadcasts are certainly worth listening to. Steve.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    As Mae West apparently said once: "I have not met, nor have I any intention to meet, this Miss Madonna.
    The exact quote is: "She wants to remake MY movie? I have not, or have I been asked to, speak to this "Miss Madonna"." And it is Marlene Dietrich speaking about Sternberg classic film "Der Blaue Engel".

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Here you go:

    www.womr.org

    Tuesday, 6 to 9 PM, ET

    I don't know if the podcast is yet available but one is supposed to be sooner or later.
    The 'More Hits expanded' episode is there. You just have to search past the WOMR homepage. Their website is a little 'clunky'.
    Last edited by ivyfield; 03-03-2012 at 08:11 AM.

  6. #106
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    jeez, listening to all of these show tunes with a cheesy house band reminds me why i could never figure out their attraction back when barry gordy had this grandiose plan for his acts. what i would have given if the live albums had been recorded in detroit with the snake pit crew and all they sang was one motown hit after another. no wonder i switched to jimi and sly! sorry this stuff never did a thing for me, and sounds even worse in retrospect!

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by thisoldheart View Post
    jeez, listening to all of these show tunes with a cheesy house band reminds me why i could never figure out their attraction back when barry gordy had this grandiose plan for his acts. what i would have given if the live albums had been recorded in detroit with the snake pit crew and all they sang was one motown hit after another. no wonder i switched to jimi and sly! sorry this stuff never did a thing for me, and sounds even worse in retrospect!
    The results may not have been too different. The Four Tops recorded at the Roostertail; I believe the Tempts first live LP and the Vandellas' live LP both were recorded in Detroit. If you give a listen to the "hits" from these LPs, they all seem rushed at frantic paces. Berry Gordy did succeed with his plan to appeal to audiences who bought more than 45s. If he hadn't I doubt that we'd be here discussing the music today.

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    I'm still working on who those musicians might be. Marvin Marshall on guitar? I don't think it's Tony Newton on bass. He played some big venues with most of the Motown roster, but he never mentioned the Copa as far as I recall. It surely isn't Jamerson. Nate Watts? Ralphe Armstrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nabob View Post
    The results may not have been too different. The Four Tops recorded at the Roostertail; I believe the Tempts first live LP and the Vandellas' live LP both were recorded in Detroit. If you give a listen to the "hits" from these LPs, they all seem rushed at frantic paces. Berry Gordy did succeed with his plan to appeal to audiences who bought more than 45s. If he hadn't I doubt that we'd be here discussing the music today.
    i respectfully disagree. motown is only remembered for their vast string of hits. nobody listens to this show biz stuff simply because it is so cheesy. people who liked the las vegas stuff listen to the experts in that field like frank sinatra. do you want to hear frankie sing "reach out"? i would guess not!

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    The Copa album is a fabulous document of a historic moment in pop history. Its also the engagement that breaks down the door so The Supremes [[and most of the Motown roster that follows behind) can bring contemporary pop and soul into these top tier entertainment venues that normally only catered to rich white audiences. Its easy to dismiss standards and Tin Pan Alley songs as cheesy but they require a certain talent and technique to sing them without falling into lounge act parody. Have you ever noticed the Motown acts that were particularly good at them were also the acts that seemed to have the longest overall hit spans? A lot of that stems from having the talent to be able to tackle different musical styles and sounds as popular tastes shifted. Even The Beatles performed standards, go play the Live At The BBC discs. Of course they didnt have to learn to twirl straw hats and canes like DMF did but they had the same aim as Berry Gordy, to get their music to reach the ears of all audiences, not just the kids. It sounds calculating to say it was only done for those purposes but its been well documented in the Supremes case that The girls were concerned with doing such a standards heavy set for the Copa opening. It wasnt until Cholly and Berry pointed out that the audience wasnt going to know Buttered Popcorn or Let Me Go The Right Way that they relented and trusted their judgement. As we all know their call was correct and the standards worked beautifully to enlarge The Supremes popularity. I look forward to buying this and hope everyone else does as well.

  11. #111
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    Can somebody please make crystal clear to me what this upcoming Copa disc might contain.
    The 1965 Copa album PLUS never before released material from those performances and/or that timeline, or never before released material from 1967 Copa performances?
    Or both?
    Last edited by robbert; 03-04-2012 at 08:43 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomis View Post
    lord have mercy..ive been away from SDF for a year and folks are still debating the "Diane" thing !!
    Many of these folks MAY be new to the forum, at least newer than many, many threads that have been rolling through the mud here in the past six to eight years... or more?

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    after aretha signed to atlantic and hit the big time, her live albums, take "aretha; live at the fillmore", had a real band behind her [[king curtis), the sweet inspirations backing her, and ray charles as a guest. when she sang popular standards she controlled them, and made them her own. she was popular without pandering to her audience. motown was and is taken seriously for its enormous run of well made singles. its consistent and amazing stable of singers, musicians, songwriters, and producers. it is not remembered for its poorly conceived lounge acts. gordy should have left the copa biz to singers more suited to that venue, like johnny mathis or sammy davis jr. gordy's company never survived the loss of h/d/h perhaps because gordy was getting his fingers into too many ill conceived adventures. luckily a few of his singers became musicians. stevie wonder and marvin gaye managed to carry on the work motown started, but they did so by not following gordy's marching orders. you can love motown for its wondrous history, but one should be able to be critical enough to see its faults.

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    Can somebody please make crystal clear to me what this upcoming Copa disc might contain.
    The 1965 Copa album PLUS never before released material from those performances and/or that timeline, or never before released material from 1967 Copa performances?
    Or both?
    It could be both - it's all speculation at this point. Hopefully we'll get some official details soon...

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICCicdozffM - Supremes At The Copa 1967 -Part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY3s_...eature=related - Supremes At The Copa 1967 -Part 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf4GF...eature=related - Supremes At The Copa 1967: You Can't Hurry Love

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    jeez, is it possible to run through a hit like "you can't hurry love" any faster with this half assed lounge band, just so you can make it to "put on a happy face"? what the hell was everybody thinking when they planned this? no wonder the record buying public youth market [[which is where the money was) jumped over to sly as soon as hipper options were available. this is something my mom might have listened to, but then added that the andrew sisters were tighter!

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    I was quite greatful for having the Supremes on the radio in 1965, because we could not hear anything on white radio other than the Supremes/Motown Fontella Bass and James Brown's two hits in 1965., Sly and the funkier music didn't get here or at least on pop radio until 1967 and by then we had Aretha Franklin. The Supremes had their own sound down and according to my ears they outsang the Andrew Sisters on the Sam Davis Special in 1966.

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    Welcome back Nomis.............and now, you know we'll be talking about Diana forever; to those that knew her personally, the term of endearment was Diane; and also is to those fans who aren't close to her but wanna be. LOL.

    I agree with the point made by Fran and Glen that this is a landmark recording, much like the Central Park concert. And I couldn't hear and R&B/Soul music at all until Berry and the Supremes broke it all open.

    But while I feel that way about these posts, the Supremes at the Copa isn't critical music for me; the Motown live albums aren't the greatest; the Supremes Millie Rose and Mame medley was quite something but I don't need another sped up live version of Baby Love/Stop in the Name of Love/Where Did Our Love Go. I would much rather have Baby It's Me and Diana Ross 1976.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Welcome back Nomis.............and now, you know we'll be talking about Diana forever; to those that knew her personally, the term of endearment was Diane; and also is to those fans who aren't close to her but wanna be. LOL.

    I agree with the point made by Fran and Glen that this is a landmark recording, much like the Central Park concert. And I couldn't hear and R&B/Soul music at all until Berry and the Supremes broke it all open.

    But while I feel that way about these posts, the Supremes at the Copa isn't critical music for me; the Motown live albums aren't the greatest; the Supremes Millie Rose and Mame medley was quite something but I don't need another sped up live version of Baby Love/Stop in the Name of Love/Where Did Our Love Go. I would much rather have Baby It's Me and Diana Ross 1976.
    nobody has ever said that motown wasn't the refreshing sound on the radio waves, but people seem to forget that black performers were on pop stations. ever heard of sam cooke? gordy wasn't the only man with a plan. however, he certainly had the best plan for pop radio. the supremes at the copa, along with the liverpool, c/w, and christmas albums certainly diluted what was otherwise a rather stupendous string of pop hits for the supremes. to think that playing the copa is some kind of ultimate showplace for motown is absurd. it is exactly where they should not have been singing if the wanted to be taken seriously as singers. pandering to the older, rich, white crowd was not a smooth move to make. that audience did not love that kind of music. kids loved it. i saw the supremes in portland around this time in at a large venue as the the entertainment part of an autos show. i loved their records, but couldn't believe how lame their act was. they sang well, but had a pickup band, and sang all of those silly show tunes, while running through their hits as an afterthought ... a rushed medley. none of my friends were impressed. but we continued to buy their hits. i doubt they gained any older people in the venue as fans with their show tunes. just listen to johnny mathis if you want to hear how a class lounge act should sound. as i said before, there is a time and place for everything. the copa/lounge bit is just not cool, just as hearing johnny mathis singing "love is like an itchin' in my heart" would be oh so painful to one's ears.
    Last edited by thisoldheart; 03-05-2012 at 03:25 AM.

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    I don't know how old or young you are, how aware of how racist America was in 1965, but I was 13, and The Copa was the height of mainstream show biz in an era when "Rat Pack" was where it's at[[Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy etc)...
    older white folks did love The Supremes, who were as non threatening as it gets; my mom leraned to love them, and the rich lady who I raked leaves for saw them at another prestige site, The Fountainbleu in Florida and said she loved them but "they were too loud!"...
    and the show tunes angle enabled them to cross over into becoming regulars on the Ed Sulivan Show , the most powerful vehicle for selling records on TV in the 60s[[just ask Elvis or The Beatles);
    the group's ability to interact with old school icons like Ethel Merman cemented them as on going decade spanning black faces that America loved, not for '15 minutes" like Sam Cooke,or the hordes of nameless, faceless black hit makers that came and went..
    The Supremes were the ultimate weapon in the civil rights war of the 60s and The Copa was their "Normandy/D Day" victorious landing...
    it was an historic moment in pop culture; if you weren't around to put things in context, then quit talking out of your ass...
    for pop culture purposes, The Supremes At The Copa is probaby the most significant title in their catalog alongside the double Greatest Hits album...any true Motown fan will have to own one

  21. #121
    RossHolloway Guest
    @Thisoldheart, ok we get it, you didn't care for when the Motown acts strayed from their original Motown material. Well not everyone feels that way. I certainly don't feel that way. When I first heard the Supreme's Copa album I fell in love with it and still love it to this day. I was not fortunate enough to be alive to ever see the Supreme's live in concert so their Copa album and all their live material at least gives me the opportunity to close my eyes and just imagine what it would have been like to have seen them live and on stage. I can also understand and appreciate what Berry Gordy was trying to do for his top acts and why he wanted more for them then just the chitlin circuit. Berry wanted the Motown sound to appeal not just to African-Americans, he wanted everyone who would listen to take notice of his musical acts, and he succeeded.

    Things were much different back during the 1960's where many doors were closed to black artist simply because of the color of their skin regardless of how talented they were. Berry set out to prove that his acts just weren't R&B acts, but they were world class entertainers and they could entertain any and everywhere from the Greystone Ballroom in Detroit to in front of heads of states half way around the world. You can call it pandering or selling out or what ever derogatory word you can think of, but the fact remains that Berry Gordy's plan worked, those acts reached the upper echelons of staredom, and many still perform all around the world in part because of the ground work that was laid out during the 1960's and by their abilities to reach a wider audience beyond just the r&b crowds or pop crowds. On the newly released Expanded Edition of Diana Ross's 1976 album in the interview that she gives, DianA plainly states that she sings and records different types of music because she ENJOYS all different types of music herself and she makes no apologies for it, nor should she. I think it's unfortunate that you would want to pigeon-hole The Supreme's or any group for that matter, into being just one type of artist and restrict them to singing just one genre of music simply because you aren't open-minded enough to seeing them do more.

  22. #122
    honest man Guest
    Hello people been listening to THERES A PLACE-ROGERS AND HART CDS over the weekend put myself a nice mix from these cds, a refreshing change from the Motown sound.there are some classic vocals and production on these albums, gonna play my cd now, they were trailblaizers, cheers.

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    i was the same age as you jimi! the supremes had already been on ed sullivan and sold out the show i saw in portland, which is a pretty white city, and played the same large venue as the beatles. so, they certainly had no problem selling out venues much larger than the copa. the copa was an entrance for any act that wanted to enter the las vegas/lounge act scene. you never saw the beatles trying to go there!

    what i am trying to say is that by entering into the type of show they reduced their credibility with their fans. by 1967 they still continued down this road while pop/rock acts were doing their own shows and trying to get gigs at the filmoore. aretha did this and to great advantage. listen to her "aretha, live at the filmoore" to get an idea of a real class act show that appealed to her fan base, and also brought more white fans into her fold because she had a "cool" factor that motown was loosing. why do you think whitfield/strong went into high gear trying to remake the temptations in a sly stone sound alike group?

    only marvin gaye and stevie wonder continued to have a strong connection with the record buying youth public, and that is becaused they refused to record the less than stellar work that motown was now producing. if you read any difinative books on popular music history, you will never see the live or themed motown album listed as part of what made the company outstanding in the world of music.

    i realize many of you are saying the copa shows opened doors for motown into lounge venues of rich, white america, but where did that get them? those people were not going to buy their records or become long term fans. motown's bread and butter were their incomparable huge string of hit singles, and is what made the company historically famous.

    so many people here seem focused on everything but motown's true music mark on history. i am not sure i have ever read more type dedicated to gowns, hairstyles ... or, the constant inane bickering between which supreme is the classiest! the sound is in the groove! if you use your ears instead of every other nonsensical emotion you will not be led astray into believing motown's live shows catering to old rich white americans is where the heart and soul of motown is located!

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    you seem to forget that in 1967, rock and roll[[and soul) were still regarded as passing fads, a decade old;
    Gordy's moves positioned acts like The Supremes and The Temptations to endure whatever came next;
    a Motown hating Rolling stone magazine poisoned the well for 'hip rock fans' in regard to Motown, as the then closeted[[and racist) Jann Wenner determined that black singers should always be screaming and sweating[[Tina Turner, James Brown Aretha) and they should leave the 'classy stuff' for the white people...they should know their place in the scheme of things..

    sorry, I was a gay white Italian kid , I didn't buy the Rolling Stone propganda then, and I don't buy it now...
    but I WILL buy "At The Copa" in breathless anticipation...

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    so are you saying aretha ain't a class act? wow! and rolling stone loved marvin. i don't think i ever saw marvin sweat ...
    Last edited by thisoldheart; 03-05-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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    Aretha is a class act,I love her, but she wasn't doing 'classy' Rogers & Hart material or anything that was considered too 'white'..
    and Rolling Stone didn't love Marvin during the 60's period when, as he put it himself, he was 'shaking his ass for Berry Gordy"...lol
    they loved his 70's output when "What's Going On" came along, and shortly thereafter, thanks to "Lady Sings The Blues", they finally put Diana Ross on the cover;
    from it's inception in 1967 right up to 1970, a Motown artist was NEVER featured on the cover of Rolling Stone and when they wrote about Motown during this period,I remember that it was ALWAYS derogatory, put downish, dismissive BS..

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    well, i am not surprised that rolling stone wasn't on board for motown during the post h/d/h slow decline, and they were not publishing during motown's heyday. they certainly did support motown's two superstar musicians, marvin gaye, and stevie wonder. the magazine was more about music than show biz in their early years [[not now!) so it is easy for me to see how they were dismissive, because that's the way i became when motown seemed adrift and unable to keep up with popular music. it was very hard to watch the sequined über stylized routine that the motown acts continued to use when sly was mixing up the scene with his talented, fresh sounding, and looking integrated group. as for wenner being rascict ... hmm ... i just don't buy that. i bought too many good records by black artists based on rolling stone's record reviews. i think in retrospect gordy was out of touch with the record buying public by the late '60's. he certainly was against gaye's groundbreaking work, and didn't seem to have much faith in wonder's. he may have been trying to prep his acts for longevity, but it turned out that the two people that made the most significant contribution to music history did not get there with his blessings!

  28. #128
    RossHolloway Guest
    People seem to forget that prior to landing at Atlantic Records in late 66 she recorded quite a few pop/standard albums and singles at Capital Records, she was not singing hardcore r&b/soul records that she became famous for later at Atlantic. And while I agree that Sly and the Family Stone were a great act, I don't think they can really be compared to the success and longevity of the Motown's greats. Sly and the Family Stone released just 20 singles between 1967 and 1976, 10 of those singles made the Pop Top 40 and 15 made the R&B top 40. By 1975/6 the group had basically imploded. All popular groups rise and fall; from the Supremes to the Beatles to the Rolling Stones to Sly and the Family Stone, it's just a fact of the music business.

    And as a teenage growing up in the 80's no one I knew ever read Rolling Stone magazine. The magazine was geared primarily towards rock and roll white male musicians. There's nothing wrong with that, there's a market for that segment of musical taste, it's regarded as an authority on that segment of music, but not of all music. I think the last time I actually read the magazine was when there was the article on General McCrystal about two years ago that ended up costing him his military career. Aside from that, the magazine isn't much talked about.
    Last edited by RossHolloway; 03-05-2012 at 03:01 PM.

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    At least Aretha put soul into her pop/standards the Supremes didn`t.If they had I would have found them more acceptable. I do own "At The Copa" and will purchase the new one.

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    I mean that if they had Motowned them, then they would have been more credible. I`m working through their Hollywood Palace performances "white" and cheesy. Give me Gladys Knight`s performances any day.

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    For me, Aretha's low point was when she tried to dress and look like Diana Ross and did her supper club bit. The Supremes did a better job of the standards, a much classier job of the standards than Aretha did. She should have stayed in her Respect, Spirit in the Dark mode and skipped the skimpy outfits and the glitz and glam.

    But every singer, male or female, if they've been around as long as Aretha and Diana.........they all have their ups and downs.

    I will buy the Copa but it'll never be near the list of my favorites.

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    Aretha could NEVER look like Diana Ross...she's just not FABULOUS enough!!!...

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    come now, aretha is has always been fabulous on the inside, where it counts. don't be so superficial! and i surprised that some of the history lessons people have been giving are written by people who weren't even born to live through motown's golden age. i was a pretty aware kid during all of the '60's, so don't dismiss my comments quite so quickly, children! [[i am teasing all of you young things a bit, but there is a whole lotta knowledge that comes with age ... just sayin')
    Last edited by thisoldheart; 03-05-2012 at 07:59 PM.

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    ...can't help it...I'm a SUPREMES FAN!!!!...lol...[[I do Love Aretha..just not as much, if ya know what I mean..)

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    I agree with these words from all of you...........

    And I have never heard a bad word said by Diana about Aretha or Aretha about Diana; luckily Diana steered clear of the Queen of Soul title though and luckily Aretha never fell on Diana in Aretha's big days. I've read that Aretha stayed with Diana in the Connecticut house in the good old days.

    They are the two major female artists of their time..........very different, very distinctive, legendary and due all the respect in the world.

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    You insult the great Aretha when you even say anything to compare her with Diane Ross. Aretha is an original, Aretha is the Queen!

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    Nice to read some creative thinking here! Though the loss of HDH was great Motown subsequently had 3 records in the top 5! Cheesy true but I think the they transcended cheese and most didnt care. At the height of the chesse they hit number one with Love Child-calculated yes but that still didnt stop them or Motown. We are still all talking about them today!

  38. #138
    atcsm Guest
    I say we celebrate the beauty of both Aretha and Diana - no reason to pit them against each other. I'm just glad they are both performing still and bringing joy to the fans.

  39. #139
    atcsm Guest
    Plus they both sold out Radio City in New York and the Ryman in Nashville so let's just say "yea" for the fans that got to see these two legendary divas without any dissing of the venue. Both ladies seem to "respect" each other - shall we agree to this or continue to divide???

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    Aretha and Diana are legendary, icons, divas, great, fabulous and all those other words. They are the two ultimate female singers/entertainers from their era. And friends. And respectful.

  41. #141
    atcsm Guest
    Can we all agree with this?

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    One of the finest moments on the Copa platter show is when the Supremes sing "Make Someone Happy" where Diana is coasting along and Mary and Flo come up behind her at the climax, and Flo hits that high note it is fabulous The Copa was the Supremes strength in 1965.

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    Quote Originally Posted by franjoy56 View Post
    One of the finest moments on the Copa platter show is when the Supremes sing "Make Someone Happy" where Diana is coasting along and Mary and Flo come up behind her at the climax, and Flo hits that high note it is fabulous The Copa was the Supremes strength in 1965.
    so the strength of the supremes output in 1965 was "make someone happy" from the copa album, and not "stop! in the name of love", "nothing but heartaches", and "back in my arms again"? sounds like another history rewrite!

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again Diana, Mary and Florence [[in my opinion) were the best out of all the Motown groups when it came to harmonizing and singing in unison and when they did those standards and showtunes they were kicking ass. Each of them had very distinct voices and that just made it even better. I'll listen to the Copa album and the Rodgers and Hart album anyday. My favorite "standard" that they do will always be "Somewhere" just Diana's input in the song and then Mary and Flo's backgrounds make the song so great.

  45. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by thisoldheart View Post
    what i am trying to say is that by entering into the type of show they reduced their credibility with their fans. by 1967 they still continued down this road while pop/rock acts were doing their own shows and trying to get gigs at the filmoore. aretha did this and to great advantage. listen to her "aretha, live at the filmore" to get an idea of a real class act show that appealed to her fan base, and also brought more white fans into her fold because she had a "cool" factor that motown was loosing.
    I was there on one of the nights. The audience was about 70 percent white composed mostly of San Francisco "hippies". "Hippies" were not Aretha's fan base. It was an interesting outing. So many were stoned and just groovin' on the lady's music. A lot of doobies were burned during that concert.

  46. #146
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    428
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    169
    whites were a large part of aretha's fan base. me and my hippy friends can vouch for that!

  47. #147
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,239
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    193
    She wasn`t called Lady Soul for nothing.

  48. #148
    honest man Guest
    Listened to the THERES A PLACE-ROGERS AND HART Sessions again yesterday,maybe im older but love these songs even more. the production and vocals are wonderful suggest you dig them out and give them a whirl,the Supremes where really top of the game at this time.Also love the standards from IHAS album,they sound so good mixed in with the other 2 albums,not a great lover of the live sets will buy though,maybe go back in sequence and give us an expanded CW ,We remember Sam ,better still,cheers.

  49. #149
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,473
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    192
    My father could never understand why I liked the Supremes. Then, in 1987, when the first Rodgers and Hart CD was released, I played it in my room when my dad came in to ask what I was listening to. Long story short, the CD went missing. Where do you suppose I found it? In my dad's CD player. It became a regular favorite of his ... especially when he had friends over.

  50. #150
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    5,860
    Rep Power
    225
    My grandad was a jazzman who dismissed pop music on the old three-chord premise, but he, too, started to take notice when he heard the Rodgers and Hart LP. Even borrowed it to grace his precious hi-fi system and conferred his approval verbally.

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