Supremes At The Copa.

[marv2]

Hmmmmmmm! Would Limbaugh have said what Marv just said? Probably.

Would a happy, well adjusted person say either of these things? Probably not, especially when this is about the Supremes at the Copa.

As has been said, what goes around comes around.

Hmmmm, thinking more this early morning.............I guess Mary already sent a message around about that kind of talk. He won't even listen to Mary!

It's not about what I said, it is what she did! There are somewhere between 40-80 video clips of the evidence on Youtube. I know she is your goddess, but she is human to everyone else. She just had an episode of farting at the wrong moment! LOL!!!! Mrs. Powell would not approve, hehehehehehehe.....

[LadySingsBlues]

not often it happens, but i agree with marv. I think motown went too far to try to make the supremes palatable to a primarily adult white nightclub audience with that copa act. Fortunately it got better over the years. But all those songs about "put on a happy face" and "make someone happy" and "enjoy yourself" seem to communicate a message that these ladies won't make you feel uncomfortable like a civil rights marcher. True, somewhere is a song about a future that may provide universal acceptance and parts of the sam cooke medley have some bite, but overall, there is nothing at all daring about this show. not to say i'm advocating that the supremes should have come on stage and opened with a new song called "up against the wall you white racist motherfuckers", but between all the happy songs, the vegas/showtune arrangments of their hits and vaudeville schmalz like rock a bye your baby with a dixie melody, there's a reason why live at the copa is not considered a landmark live album of the 60's. Yes it sold well in its time, but it's not an album for the ages, though it is an interesting socio-cultural historical artifact documenting a culture and show business establishment that is no more. For that reason, i might actually buy the reissue as such matters arouse my intellectual curiosity, lol!.

laugh out loud. :d

[Glenpwood]

. Not to say I'm advocating that the Supremes should have come on stage and opened with a new song called "Up Against the wall you white racist motherfuckers".

Now Now... This is the classy Supremes, it would've been "Up The Ladder to The Roof You White Racist Mo-Fo's"

Mary's background "Up The's" would've been EPIC!!! LOL

[BobC]

This is my last post on this forum--I am fed up with the white bashing. I am damn proud of my people and when I read how "racist America was in the 60's" and how hard it was for black artists to get seen and heard it makes me want to destroy every single black record I ever purchased.

To the racists on this forum with very selective memory, let's start with the 5o's. From the Greatest 100 Rock and Roll artists of the 50's, we have the following:
2. Fats Domino [[second only to Elvis)
3. Chuck Berry
4. Little Richard
7. Ray Charles
9. Clovers
10. Platters
11. The Dominoes
12. Ruth Brown
13. Bo Diddley
15. Sam Cooke
16. Hank Ballard and the Midnighters
19, Big Joe Turner
20. The Drifters

So 13 of the top 20 artists of the 50's were BLACK. And yet apparently that isn't enough because we evil white people just wouldn't buy black records.

60's: Once again, look at how OVER_Represented blacks were, not under:

2. James Brown [[second only to Beatles)
4. Supremes
7. Aretha
9. Sam Cooke
10. Jimi Hendryx
11. Ray Charles
12. Otis Redding
13. Temptations
14. Miracles
16. Marvin Gaye
19. Wiilson Picket
20. Stevie Wonder

Oh look! AGAIN, 13 of the top 20 are BLACK. AGAIN. But yeah--all the doors were closed by us evil white people.

70's:
1. Stevie Wonder [[OOPS--hate to tell you all but a black artist is the biggest of the 70's!!!!!)
7. Marvin Gaye
9. James Brown
12. Aretha
15. PFunk
16. Isley Brothers

Of course, since I was around in the 70's, I know that this was when BLACKS really started SELF-SEGREGATING with their own black radio stations, Soul Train, etc. But yeah that's evil white people's fault too.

In the 90's-2000's the top 10 was DOMINATED by rap and hip hop.

Oh an let's not forget the 80's, where records by Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Jam and Lewis, Nile Rodgers, ect JUST NEVER GOT PLAYED!!

Stop perpetuating this blatant, self-pitying lie that Motown was "opening doors" during the "racist 60's" because those doors were already wide open before most of those artists were born. Before I was born. Considering blacks were between 6%-8% of the population in those decades, maybe you can get it through your thick racist skulls, and condescending, 60's white liberal skulls who are still stuck mentally in that decade, that WHITES HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING BACK ARTISTS SINCE POPULAR MUSIC BEGAN.

Anything, ANYTHING to demonize white people. And white liberals are the WORST in this department. Goodbye forever--have fun dwelling in your self pity and victim status.

[smark21]

Seriously Bob C? You want to destroy all your "black records" because people at this forum discuss the fact that African Americans suffered from racism in the 1960's? Really? YOu sure got a lot of issues going on. Too many for me to tackle, but I'll address a couple and hopefully others will chime in as well, even if you don't come back here ever again because you feel "your people" are under attack.

For starters, except for the most virulent white racists, most white people who have bigoted feelings about African Americans don't mind Blacks when they sing, dance, entertain or play ball. They can enjoy the music and even buy the songs, watch them on TV or even attend a concert, but still harbor racist feelings that Black people are inferior or are not deserving of equal rights or social justice. Perfect example of this mentality: In Mary Wilson's first book she talks about a white woman who came up to her in the 60's and told her that she usually doesn't permit her children to watch Negroes on TV, but she makes an exception for the Supremes because "they're different". Or in the 80's , The Cosby Show was the highest rated show on TV, yet a number of its viewers turned around and voted for Ronald Reagan, or in North Carolina, voted for Jesse Helms.

I'll let others discuss racism in the 60's in more depth as I was an infant back then. But it existed all over. Segregation was still in place in many parts of the country in the early 60's and even up to the end of the decade. Though whites bought the records, that didn't mean the artists had the same sort of quality accomadations that a white star would have. You also talk about self segregation in the 70's. You don't seem to understand the purpose of the Civil Rights movement. Blacks weren't fighting for Civil Rights because they loved white people and wanted to be with them. No, they were fighting for the right to be treated fairly and equally and with respect under the law. To have the right to vote and use any facility they wanted to patronized without being barred or sent to the back door.

And perhaps our times are not as racist as they once were, but anti Black racism still exists in this country. Just the other day down in Flordia a Black teenager was shot and killed by a neighborhood watch leader in a gated community in Florida. The teenager lived in the community with his father and step mother. He just went out to buy some Skittles and Long Island Ice tea and was on his way back home. But all the Neigborhood Watch leader saw was a Black teenager, a criminal in his mind. He shot him and killed him. And the police let him go. Now the father is demanding justice. Why don't you fly down to Florida and tell the father there's no such thing as racism in the United States? Go on, I dare you. If you don't believe this story, here's the link: http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/fa...us&.lang=en-us

Your outburst is a culmination of your posts here lately. You harbor a lot of racial resentment. I wonder why? Perhaps you have guilt over what's bottled up inside you and rather than confronting your feelings you decide to deny them and blame others for fantasizing about being victims of racism? I don't really know. But you're a sick puppy and you need to get some help. The sooner the better.

[marv2]

Seriously Bob C? You want to destroy all your "black records" because people at this forum discuss the fact that African Americans suffered from racism in the 1960's? Really? YOu sure got a lot of issues going on. Too many for me to tackle, but I'll address a couple and hopefully others will chime in as well, even if you don't come back here ever again because you feel "your people" are under attack.

For starters, except for the most virulent white racists, most white people who have bigoted feelings about African Americans don't mind Blacks when they sing, dance, entertain or play ball. They can enjoy the music and even buy the songs, watch them on TV or even attend a concert, but still harbor racist feelings that Black people are inferior or are not deserving of equal rights or social justice. Perfect example of this mentality: In Mary Wilson's first book she talks about a white woman who came up to her in the 60's and told her that she usually doesn't permit her children to watch Negroes on TV, but she makes an exception for the Supremes because "they're different". Or in the 80's , The Cosby Show was the highest rated show on TV, yet a number of its viewers turned around and voted for Ronald Reagan, or in North Carolina, voted for Jesse Helms.

I'll let others discuss racism in the 60's in more depth as I was an infant back then. But it existed all over. Segregation was still in place in many parts of the country in the early 60's and even up to the end of the decade. Though whites bought the records, that didn't mean the artists had the same sort of quality accomadations that a white star would have. You also talk about self segregation in the 70's. You don't seem to understand the purpose of the Civil Rights movement. Blacks weren't fighting for Civil Rights because they loved white people and wanted to be with them. No, they were fighting for the right to be treated fairly and equally and with respect under the law. To have the right to vote and use any facility they wanted to patronized without being barred or sent to the back door.

And perhaps our times are not as racist as they once were, but anti Black racism still exists in this country. Just the other day down in Flordia a Black teenager was shot and killed by a neighborhood watch leader in a gated community in Florida. The teenager lived in the community with his father and step mother. He just went out to buy some Skittles and Long Island Ice tea and was on his way back home. But all the Neigborhood Watch leader saw was a Black teenager, a criminal in his mind. He shot him and killed him. And the police let him go. Now the father is demanding justice. Why don't you fly down to Florida and tell the father there's no such thing as racism in the United States? Go on, I dare you. If you don't believe this story, here's the link: http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/fa...us&.lang=en-us

Your outburst is a culmination of your posts here lately. You harbor a lot of racial resentment. I wonder why? Perhaps you have guilt over what's bottled up inside you and rather than confronting your feelings you decide to deny them and blame others for fantasizing about being victims of racism? I don't really know. But you're a sick puppy and you need to get some help. The sooner the better.

Oh ummm..... I don't think many people are going to chime in here, because you pretty much said it all! Elegant Soul, where are you? LOL!!!! A WOW!

[Constantin]

This is my last post on this forum--I am fed up with the white bashing. [...]
Stop perpetuating this blatant, self-pitying lie that Motown was "opening doors" during the "racist 60's" because those doors were already wide open before most of those artists were born. Before I was born. Considering blacks were between 6%-8% of the population in those decades, maybe you can get it through your thick racist skulls, and condescending, 60's white liberal skulls who are still stuck mentally in that decade, that WHITES HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING BACK ARTISTS SINCE POPULAR MUSIC BEGAN.

Anything, ANYTHING to demonize white people. And white liberals are the WORST in this department. Goodbye forever--have fun dwelling in your self pity and victim status.

You are absolutely right.

[Jimi LaLumia]

actually, absolutely WHITE!!!...lol

[jobeterob]

I'm surprised by the later discussion here............but, I think it demonstrates what the Copa was all about as well as the problems that still pervade areas of the USA today.

Imagine Diana Ross..........going from the projects, not being able to use certain washrooms down south, getting shot at in Mississippi to Buckingham Palace, the White House, Radio City Music Hall and the Academy Awards by the time she was 30.

[marv2]

I'm surprised by the later discussion here............but, I think it demonstrates what the Copa was all about as well as the problems that still pervade areas of the USA today.

Imagine Diana Ross..........going from the projects, not being able to use certain washrooms down south, getting shot at in Mississippi to Buckingham Palace, the White House, Radio City Music Hall and the Academy Awards by the time she was 30.

Wasn't just Diana Ross! It was all of them and many other African Americans. She was just one person of many that have done better. She is not the example.

[thisoldheart]

to think that racism and homophobia for that matter don't exist today is ... well, i can't find the words! as far as this board is concerned, this white gay man has found most of its members more tolerant than the the american population, thank god! this thread was rolling along at such an interesting pace before it turned into a train wreck!

[LadySingsBlues]

Wasn't just Diana Ross! It was all of them and many other African Americans. She was just one person of many that have done better. She is not the example.

We know Marv, we know.

[marv2]

We know Marv, we know.

That's good. Now would tell Jobeterob. He thinks she is important to all things.

[Roberta75]

You are absolutely right.

OMG......................are you serious? Bobc has an issue with "white bashing" which is nonexistant on this forum and you agree with him.

Shame on you.

Roberta

[144man]

This is my last post on this forum--I am fed up with the white bashing. I am damn proud of my people and when I read how "racist America was in the 60's" and how hard it was for black artists to get seen and heard it makes me want to destroy every single black record I ever purchased.

Of course, since I was around in the 70's, I know that this was when BLACKS really started SELF-SEGREGATING with their own black radio stations, Soul Train, etc. But yeah that's evil white people's fault too.

In the 90's-2000's the top 10 was DOMINATED by rap and hip hop.

Oh an let's not forget the 80's, where records by Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Jam and Lewis, Nile Rodgers, ect JUST NEVER GOT PLAYED!!

Stop perpetuating this blatant, self-pitying lie that Motown was "opening doors" during the "racist 60's" because those doors were already wide open before most of those artists were born. Before I was born. Considering blacks were between 6%-8% of the population in those decades, maybe you can get it through your thick racist skulls, and condescending, 60's white liberal skulls who are still stuck mentally in that decade, that WHITES HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING BACK ARTISTS SINCE POPULAR MUSIC BEGAN.

Anything, ANYTHING to demonize white people. And white liberals are the WORST in this department. Goodbye forever--have fun dwelling in your self pity and victim status.

Unbelievable.

Smark21's response pretty much nails it.

[bankhousedave]

Thank god where I live we don't have any whites or liberals. We just have people. Some of them are screwy and a lot of them are mistaken - a few of them even believe you can generalise and classify people, but most of these are psychologists and don't count. I think we were just visited by an alien, but don't worry, the government will hush it up and he'll get fired when he gets back to planetoid seven.

[luke]

Well said Smark.

[nomis]

lasr time i got into this topic someone here called me a racist and I stayed away for a year..the only thing im gonna add at this point is when i worked for EMI I rescued a Ross dictaphone recording on a EPK from a bin..on it she talks about violence in Hip Hop..she sounds very old and weary..theres real pain when she talks about Violence the words come out with a deep sadness of someone who was witness to an ugly,painful part of history..

[franjoy56]

This is what discussing the Supremes at the Copa turned into a trainwreck, when it should have been a coup for a black act performing for in a club where blacks ususally didn't perform in because of yes racism, [[except for the Johnny Mathis's and Sam Cooke's and Sammy Davis' and Lena Horne's [[not sure if she played the Copa) but those three epitimized the acceptance of whites, but it was time for black artists to break out and playing a place like the copa was the place for the supremes to break out in and thankully they did do their crossover, because no pun intended white artists havae been covering black artist for years Pat Boone for Little Richard and Fat Domino. So what was wrong with the Supremes covering m.o.r. songs because white america felt black artists weren't acceptable, how we beg to differ. and yes the Sam cooke medley was one of the best sets they did outside their hits queen of the house & make someone, happy and Somewhere, I agree some of the show tunes should have sapped in favor of their own material. but since this was Berry's money promoting this show you couldn't tell him anything else but crossover.

[jobeterob]

Good post Fran.

This still won't be one of my favorite Deluxe Editions. I'll buy it and look forward to Baby It's Me.

[franjoy56]

I am looking forward to "Baby Its Me" as well I love that album her Central Park Concert is playing right now, she is given alot of credit for that show and very brave on night #1 too bad the fans let her down on night #2 a friend called me tonight and said he was there and got out of that park like lightening because people were getting mugged.

[marv2]

I am looking forward to "Baby Its Me" as well I love that album her Central Park Concert is playing right now, she is given alot of credit for that show and very brave on night #1 too bad the fans let her down on night #2 a friend called me tonight and said he was there and got out of that park like lightening because people were getting mugged.

Fran I remember those stories of the muggings and major damage done to the park. Also, didn't Mayor Koch have to go public to get Ross to cough up the money for that children's playground?

[motown4ever]

Fran I remember those stories of the muggings and major damage done to the park. Also, didn't Mayor Koch have to go public to get Ross to cough up the money for that children's playground?

I think you're right Marv. It was around the time Diane gave Mary one of those loans for her mortgage or back taxes.

[captainjames]

Does anyone know if The Supremes were the first African American group to appear there ? I am assuming they were but for some reason I thought a non-Motown male group performed there as well. This was BIG and very important step for Motown to get the girls on this gig.

[milven]

Sammy Davis Jr., Harry Belefonte and Sam Cooke performed there before the Supremes. That's why I wonder why it considered so groundbreaking that the Supremes were booked there when other black acts preceeded them.

[captainjames]

Were they the first African American Females ?

[jillfoster]

I have to say I never did like the Copa album. A female group in popular music in the 60's, I expected a pop music show, with some HIPNESS, and groovy music. Instead we got a vegasy, schmaltzy type of show that would be more suited to Perry freaking COMO! Most of the Supremes live shows were like this, and this is why I feel that they never got the critical acclaim that would be commensurate with their chart success. It's like their hit records misrepresented who they were when you went to see them live.

[Constantin]

I have to say I never did like the Copa album. A female group in popular music in the 60's, I expected a pop music show, with some HIPNESS, and groovy music. Instead we got a vegasy, schmaltzy type of show that would be more suited to Perry freaking COMO! Most of the Supremes live shows were like this, and this is why I feel that they never got the critical acclaim that would be commensurate with their chart success. It's like their hit records misrepresented who they were when you went to see them live.

True. The explanation could be that the model Berry Gordy has in mind for Diana Ross was Doris Day. Gordy loved Day: one of his first songs was intended to her [["You are you" finally sung by Shanice on A Tribute to Berry Gordy - The Music, the Magic, the Memories of Motown). I never really understood why surely because where I lived Day was not the major star she was in the US.*

[jillfoster]

Now Now... This is the classy Supremes, it would've been "Up The Ladder to The Roof You White Racist Mo-Fo's"

Mary's background "Up The's" would've been EPIC!!! LOL

Yep!!! I can hear those backgrounds now... "Up yours!"

[Jimi LaLumia]

Doris Day was the role model because all America knew her;
she had hit records, became a star on tv, and starred in films;
and SO DID Diana Ross..

[smark21]

I just did some googling. Lena Horne was the first African American woman to play the Copa in 1948. The Will Mastin Trio [[the group that launched Sammy Davis, Jr.) played the Copa in the 50's. So The Supremes were not the first African American women or the first African American group to play the Copa. They were the first African American female group on a black owned label to play the club though.

BTW, thanks to those who liked my reply to BobC. I do hope others chime in with their perspectives on his rant though.

[ralpht]

Thank you for the definitive answer to the question, Smark.

[kenneth]

BTW, thanks to those who liked my reply to BobC. I do hope others chime in with their perspectives on his rant though.

Very surprising...to say the least. And anyway, if we're talking about breakthroughs in the 60s for black artists, well that's when Motown had its biggest impact. In those days, reaction [[and by inference, imitation) was at least or even quicker than it is now, so many companies were quick to jump on the R&B band wagon.

Also, few of those in command [[label owners, sports franchises, entertainment moguls) were black then...or even now! As progressive as they were, there's a difference between Motown and Atlantic [[not to mention Columbia Records) in the 60s. Real progress was made when many of these artists became self-produced [[Wonder, Gaye, Ross, etc.) or more in control of their careers.

[milven]

What we may be forgetting is that the Supremes were not performing a concert. They were performing a night club act in a smoke filled room, with people eating, drinking and talking. The show that they put on was for that audience, not for a concert audience. Sam Cook was the epitome of soul singers of his time and he also sang standards such as Bill Bailey, When I Fall In Love and Tennessee Waltz in his Copa act. It may sound corny now, but it was entertaining in its time and in front of a night club audience. As a recording, it serves as a history of what used to be.

[robbert]

Wasn't just Diana Ross! It was all of them and many other African Americans. She was just one person of many that have done better. She is not the example.

Marv, please! Jobeterob just used her as an example. It says "Imagine Diana Ross..." You better read carefully before you trhust yourself into another blast.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Very surprising...to say the least. And anyway, if we're talking about breakthroughs in the 60s for black artists, well that's when Motown had its biggest impact. In those days, reaction [[and by inference, imitation) was at least or even quicker than it is now, so many companies were quick to jump on the R&B band wagon.

Also, few of those in command [[label owners, sports franchises, entertainment moguls) were black then...or even now! As progressive as they were, there's a difference between Motown and Atlantic [[not to mention Columbia Records) in the 60s. Real progress was made when many of these artists became self-produced [[Wonder, Gaye, Ross, etc.) or more in control of their careers.

EXACTLY!....the know nothings chiming in are either people that were born in 1985, or the small tribe of Ross-o-phobes!

[robbert]

I just did some googling. Lena Horne was the first African American woman to play the Copa in 1948.

And that's a fact, there you go. But wasn't Lena Horn considered as the "beige Doris Day?" Which might have made her more acceptable to white audiences? Just thinking out loud...

[robbert]

What we may be forgetting is that the Supremes were not performing a concert. They were performing a night club act in a smoke filled room, with people eating, drinking and talking. The show that they put on was for that audience, not for a concert audience. Sam Cook was the epitome of soul singers of his time and he also sang standards such as Bill Bailey, When I Fall In Love and Tennessee Waltz in his Copa act. It may sound corny now, but it was entertaining in its time and in front of a night club audience. As a recording, it serves as a history of what used to be.

Indeed. I always pitied that The Supremes never got to play stadiums or venues alike, with full versions of their hits plus some other material from their vast album repertoire. Like the stars in Monterey and Woodstock... where were the girls on big venues and festivals in their prime years [[1964-1967)? Or weren't those mass gigs yet invented? On big venues they always performed their MOR repertoire and the rush-rush medley of hits, didn't they? In fact, in all those years [[1964-1969) they only had two shows on the road, the Copa 1965 and the Talk of the Town 1968 show.
Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player... from the far east Europe!

[Jimi LaLumia]

the girls do their thing on "THE T.A.M.I. SHOW" right alongside James Brown and The Rolling Stones, and they did just fine;
then Berry Gordy got other ideas for the girls

[robbert]

Yes Jimi, the days when the performers in tv studios kept staring at the hanging monitors while performing instead of playing the cameras... hahaha

[stephanie]

At first I thought this was some kind of joke. Poor Bob C. Out of all the things I have seen on this forum I have never felt or seen anyone who thought there was white bashing going on. Im sorry Bob if you see this I hope you were not offended but I found it to be so funny on a Supremes at the Copa thread....LOL Please forgive me. I am not white so maybe I dont understand the sensitivity here but please I hope you feel no need to burn your records. I wouldnt burn my Monkees, Doors, or Rolling Stones records if there was black bashing. Seriously think it over you are always welcome here.

[Constantin]

Real progress was made when many of these artists became self-produced [[Wonder, Gaye, Ross, etc.) or more in control of their careers.

In the case of Ross, it was surely better for her bank account and her financial independence but from an artistic perspective I am not sure her self-produced albums will stand the test of time like the others.

[marv2]

You are absolutely right.

He [[BobC) is not absolutely right. Why do you say that?