WHO IS DIANA ROSS? A poll of the next genration.....

**marybrewster** · 01-30-2012, 11:30 PM

Maybe I was bored today. Maybe I've just got too much time on my hands.

The other day in one of the threads here at SDF, a comment was made that "no one in the next generation" knows who Diana Ross is.

Interesting thought. So, being blessed with relatives in "the next generation" and friends with children "in the next generation" and co-workers "in the next generation", I thought I'd put that statement to test.

First, let me say, I polled 12 individuals [[to match the 12 #1's Diana had with the Supremes). They ranged from ages 15 to 24. My subjects were both male and female. My subjects identify as Caucasian, Asian and Hispanic.

I asked three simple questions. 1) Have you ever heard of Diana Ross? If the answer was "no", that was the end of the poll. If the answer was "yes", the next question was: 2) Who is she? If the subject "didn't know" or had no answer, that was the end of the poll. If the subject knew, the last question was: Can you name a Diana Ross song?

Here are the results:

4 individuals didn't know who Diana Ross was [[although one said her name sounded familiar).

7 individuals identified Diana as either a black woman, or a black singer, or better yet, an actress. Of those 7, 4 individuals identified Diana as a member of The Supremes. Furthermore, of those 7, 1 individual indentified her as "like Cher; every gay man's dream". LOL.

Of the above 7 mentioned, 1 could name a Diana Ross song: "Baby, Where Did Our Love Go?" [[another subject said they couldn't name a Diana Ross song, but would know one if they heard one). When I asked the 1 how they knew a Diana Ross song, the answer was "I know good music"!

So, while the "next generation" could use a little work, the majority know a legendary lady: Miss Diana Ross.

**carlo** · 01-31-2012, 12:39 AM

Thanks MaryBrewster for sharing the results of your poll. You got me smiling!

May I add...I am 22 years old and from "the next generation". Most of my friends are also in my age group and whenever I've mentioned or discussed Diana Ross, most of them have heard of her or know who she is. Once in a while someone will say they don't know who she is, but it's very rare...and once I start singing one of her songs, they automatically realize.

**jobeterob** · 01-31-2012, 01:43 AM

I think that Mary's poll reflects reality.............Diana is an icon of an age; but she is not Taylor Swift and Adele; she was that in the 60's and 70's and maybe early 80's............but her songs are known as is she generally.

This is why I say this unpopular line that while Diana Ross is known, the other Supremes no longer are; that ended in the 60's and 70's. Cindy Birdsong is the one most identified because you can't have a name like that and not be a singer.

And before anyone is offended..............we are not talking hardcore fans; I know we know them all down to Barbara Martin and the quasi Supremes.........Shantel and Karen et al.

**carlo** · 01-31-2012, 11:21 AM

LOL. Glad you took the time to clarify that.

**soulster** · 01-31-2012, 12:29 PM

I did a similar informal poll for Stevie Wonder about ten years ago, except my samples were in their thirties. The people were Latino and White. Not a single person could name one song he did.

I also did the same for The Beatles. None but one could name any of them, any Beatles song, or anything any of them sang as solo artists. That one person at least knew about Paul McCartney.

Diana Ross? I'm surprised anyone knew who she was. A gay man's dream? How in the world did Diana Ross become a favorite of gays? I'm not gay, so I don't know.

**captainjames** · 01-31-2012, 12:45 PM

Thanks, I don't think I have met anyone yet that did not know who Diana Ross was or had heard of her.

**luke** · 01-31-2012, 01:58 PM

Ironically,I asked 13 people at work who were together in one room last Saturday if they knew who Diana Ross was and no one did but some seemed to know of the Supremes-will try to double check that. Usually I ask about other Motown stars too but didnt have time. Everyone but one was under thirty. I was surprised to say the least. But lets face it times have changed.

**jobeterob** · 01-31-2012, 04:13 PM

That could only happen for Luke.........well, and for one more poster, no need to mention names. LOL!

I enjoyed that post; thanks Luke.

**marv2** · 01-31-2012, 04:31 PM

I asked my 18 yr. old nephew Kenny "Bud" who was that woman on the computer [[it was the picture of Diana Ross here from her latest Greatest Hits Collection). My back was turned to the computer and he said "Diana Ross". I ask him what does she do and he said "I dunno"! When I turned around to look at the picture again, I had to laugh because her name was under the picture and he had read it in order to give me his answer! LOL!!! oh LOL!!!!!

**marv2** · 01-31-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Ironically,I asked 13 people at work who were together in one room last Saturday if they knew who Diana Ross was and no one did but some seemed to know of the Supremes-will try to double check that. Usually I ask about other Motown stars too but didnt have time. Everyone but one was under thirty. I was surprised to say the least. But lets face it times have changed.

Young kids know the Supremes because of "Dreamgirls". One actually asked me, which one of the Supremes replaced Effie! hehehehehehe! True story.

It would be too embarassing to ask about who Diana Ross is.

**floyjoy678** · 01-31-2012, 04:52 PM

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

**ejluther** · 01-31-2012, 05:19 PM

Of course, it goes both ways; I'm absolutely certain I couldn't identify a lot of the music personalities who matter to kids today. And, of course, why should I be able to? That's not my thing...

**marv2** · 01-31-2012, 05:30 PM

Maybe they could do an Unsung episode on Diana Ross?

**BobC** · 01-31-2012, 06:27 PM

hmmm--since I do videogames for a living, I work with people from their early twenties up through their sixties, and most of the kids know the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and other classic rock bands like that. They think music was better then. None of them know Motown or any black music from the 60's/70's, but most are into contemporary rap/hip hop. I am always put off when I hear a song that samples, say, a Stevie Wonder song, and they have no idea someone else wrote it.

**Roberta75** · 01-31-2012, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

That's so sad franjoy.

**soulster** · 01-31-2012, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

hmmm--since I do videogames for a living, I work with people from their early twenties up through their sixties, and most of the kids know the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and other classic rock bands like that. They think music was better then. None of them know Motown or any black music from the 60's/70's, but most are into contemporary rap/hip hop. I am always put off when I hear a song that samples, say, a Stevie Wonder song, and they have no idea someone else wrote it.

Except for my little informal poll that I described above, this been my experience as well!

uptight · 02-01-2012, 08:01 AM

I remember an older cousin telling me she and a friend recently attended a Mary Wells concert. I knew she meant Mary Wilson but didn't have the heart to correct her.

At least Stevie Wonder has 5 songs on a new RockBand videogame called “Stevie Wonder Pack 01.” Young videogame players will have a tiny bit more exposure to Stevie's 70s hits.

Also, I bump into people of all ages who still don't know that the name "Motown" is a contraction of "Motor Town" or that it originated from Detroit. Sadly, lots of folks in Detroit don't even know this basic information.

**captainjames** · 02-01-2012, 10:04 AM

I am usually correcting the young generation on who was in the Supremes; They always seem to know Diana and Cindy. Sometimes Flo will get a nod or two but, Mary always get confused with Mary Wells or Nancy Wilson. Also, as far as the Supremes the kids think it ended when Diana left. With so many songs being sampled of Diana's most will know Upside Down, Love Hangover or Anit No Mountain High Enough. Try asking someone under 30 during the holidays while in a department store and Silver Bells or the Children's Christmas song plays over the intercom who is singing and they will immediately tell you Diana Ross.

Originally Posted by uptight

I remember an older cousin telling me she and a friend recently attended a Mary Wells concert. I knew she meant Mary Wilson but didn't have the heart to correct her.

At least Stevie Wonder has 5 songs on a new RockBand videogame called “Stevie Wonder Pack 01.” Young videogame players will have a tiny bit more exposure to Stevie's 70s hits.

Also, I bump into people of all ages who still don't know that the name "Motown" is a contraction of "Motor Town" or that it originated from Detroit. Sadly, lots of folks in Detroit don't even know this basic information.

dzMusica · 02-01-2012, 10:06 AM

Weren't the Supremes black?

**captainjames** · 02-01-2012, 10:13 AM

Sometimes they did wear black but usually Flo's hair was blonde and Mary went blonde in the late sixties.

Originally Posted by dzMusica

Weren't the Supremes black?

**BobC** · 02-01-2012, 10:58 AM

Rockband and those types of games are definitely bringing these songs to a new audience--but people get really sick of the songs too. A great example of a song that was considered cutting edge and cool, but is now considered lame and cheesy because of Rockband is What You Do To Me by Queens of the Stone Age.

**luke** · 02-01-2012, 11:55 AM

LOLOL Marv u bad boy!!But you may be onto something. Love your nephew!

**marv2** · 02-01-2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by luke

LOLOL Marv u bad boy!!But you may be onto something. Love your nephew!

Thanks. He's something else. He is a Hip-Hop artist with his own little fan base on Youtube and Facebook. Didn't have a CLUE as to who Diane was LOL!!!

**arrr&bee** · 02-01-2012, 02:17 PM

Well,well,well is this a hooch hullucination...a supremes post that actually makes sense...good question and my take is that because of their legend the supremes will be remembered as will diana,but some years ago i asked some college students about the drifters and not one of em knew who they were so i think that it's important that we keep sites like[soulful detroit]going so that future generations will have a reference place to learn the history of this wonderful music we discuss today...great post!!!

**144man** · 02-01-2012, 05:58 PM

I wonder if the situation is different in the UK than the USA. My teenage great-nieces have a good knowledge of oldies going as far back as Elvis Presley. They're more likely to know the songs, however, than the singers.

**soulster** · 02-01-2012, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by dzMusica

Weren't the Supremes black?

They were??? Really! OMG!!! Haven't you ever heard of dying your hair?

**Sugarchilehoneybaby** · 02-02-2012, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

I remember a few years back my grandmom and my aunt were discussing the music they used to listen to in the 60s and my grandmom said to my aunt remember you used to listen to the Supremes? And my aunt said oh yea...Diana Ross, Cindy Birdsong and uh Mary Wells.

Okay, that is too funny! Because I went to high school with a girl who also thought that Mary Wells was a Supreme! I remember she did not care for Diana Ross, and told me one day, "She only had like one hit anyway...that song 'Love Hunger'.

That other lady in the Supremes had that song 'My Guy' before she was in The Supremes, and it was #1 for like two years!" And I was like...."Ummm, hon, that lady was Mary Wells. The Supreme was named Mary WILSON."

She didn't believe me and went off on how Mary Wells or Wilson or whatever, had a whole bunch of hits and then joined the Supremes, only to be pushed to the background because Diana Ross was Berry Gordy's lover!

Come to think of it, though, Mary Wells and Mary Wilson DO sound similar. Not just their names, but vocally. Give a listen to the end part of "My Guy", when Mary gets all husky and sexy, and then listen to Mary Wilson's parts on "Floy Joy" [[both Smokey songs for comparison) and tell me they don't sound very, very similar. I'll bet lots of non-Motown-obsessed people [[casual listeners) would think that was the same singer!

uptight · 02-02-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by arrr&bee

Well,well,well is this a hooch hullucination...a supremes post that actually makes sense...good question and my take is that because of their legend the supremes will be remembered as will diana,but some years ago i asked some college students about the drifters and not one of em knew who they were so i think that it's important that we keep sites like[soulful detroit]going so that future generations will have a reference place to learn the history of this wonderful music we discuss today...great post!!!

arrr&bee, I sure hope this Soulful Detroit website is around for many years to come. It is an excellent means of discussion and education for fans and non-fans of the music. I hope younger people are tuning in here.

**ejluther** · 02-02-2012, 08:08 AM

How in the world did Diana Ross become a favorite of gays? I'm not gay, so I don't know.

There's a long history of gay men responding to strong and theatrical women who love to perform with a liberal dose of campy flair - Diana certainly fits in there along with Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, Madonna, Cher, etc. This is a very simplistic answer but it's still one that fits for a lot of gay men. Of course, there are gay men who say they're "not gay" that way because they don't like the traditional "gay icons" but enough have/do to often make it an appropriate generalization. Of course, I also like to point out that gay men might respond to women like this simply because they're talented, interesting, and make great music...

dzMusica · 02-02-2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

They were??? Really! OMG!!! Haven't you ever heard of dying your hair?

I was saying that because how r u going to do a poll about African Americans and not ask African Americans. Its unbalanced. Let's not forget All the main Motown artists were black.

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by ejluther

There's a long history of gay men responding to strong and theatrical women who love to perform with a liberal dose of campy flair - Diana certainly fits in there along with Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, Madonna, Cher, etc. This is a very simplistic answer but it's still one that fits for a lot of gay men. Of course, there are gay men who say they're "not gay" that way because they don't like the traditional "gay icons" but enough have/do to often make it an appropriate generalization. Of course, I also like to point out that gay men might respond to women like this simply because they're talented, interesting, and make great music...

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by dzMusica

I was saying that because how r u going to do a poll about African Americans and not ask African Americans. Its unbalanced. Let's not forget All the main Motown artists were black.

Who said I wasn't asking African-Americans? The question is open to anyone.

**ejluther** · 02-02-2012, 09:35 AM

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.

Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help

dzMusica · 02-02-2012, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

Who said I wasn't asking African-Americans? The question is open to anyone.

You said the people who answered the poll were White and Latino. Why report an unbalanced poll. The other poller had similar results. It puts unecessary misconceptions in peoples heads because there is no balance. If you don't include African Americans as well then whats the point. There's no conversation here.

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by ejluther

Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help

I'll admit to having a few Barbra Steisand and Diana Ross albums, but it's something I don't say too loud. It's not so bad to admit having some Barry Manilow, but still...

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by dzMusica

You said the people who answered the poll were White and Latino. Why report an unbalanced poll.

Maybe it's because, for me, I live in an area with very few Black people. I live in a predominately White and Latino area.

dzMusica · 02-02-2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

Maybe it's because, for me, I live in an area with very few Black people. I live in a predominately White and Latino area.

I understand that but its still unbalanced. Being the case, you should present your information like this [[you and the other poller) Young white and latino people don't know, 4 example, who the motown artists are. Something like that. Just be more exact its poll. Some people might take it to heart.

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by dzMusica

I understand that but its still unbalanced. Being the case, you should present your information like this [[you and the other poller) Young white and latino people don't know, 4 example, who the motown artists are. Something like that. Just be more exact its poll. Some people might take it to heart.

First, did I not say that my poll was informal? And second, why assume White or Latino people do not listen to Motown or Diana Ross songs? Sure, fewer of them do, but probably no more than Black people. I know plenty of Black people who can't stand Diana Ross. Personally, I have no use for her image, status, or whatever, but I do like some of her music. It ends there.

This is NOT the Diana Ross forum, and I do not come here to just talk about her, as I am not one of her fans.

**BobC** · 02-02-2012, 01:15 PM

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.

Also--what is this nonsense that whites and Hispanics aren't just as qualified as anybody else in discussing Motown? I'm white and know more about Motown than probably 90% of blacks--not bragging, just stating a fact. The more people claim they are beyond race, the more people are obsessed with it. I never gave a crap about these useless distinctions. Yes, groups tend to have identifiable traits on average, but at the end of the day we are all individuals.

**simplysupreme** · 02-02-2012, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by ejluther

Homophobia like undoubtedly does occur, sure - I find people tend to be narrowminded about cliches like that. But, obviously, that doesn't mean you have to be gay to like them...but it does seem to help

Here's an interesting take on it:
http://greginhollywood.com/why-are-g...d-others-33891

**soulster** · 02-02-2012, 04:24 PM

Thanks, Bob!

**candykamaine** · 02-02-2012, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by carlo

Thanks MaryBrewster for sharing the results of your poll. You got me smiling!

May I add...I am 22 years old and from "the next generation". Most of my friends are also in my age group and whenever I've mentioned or discussed Diana Ross, most of them have heard of her or know who she is. Once in a while someone will say they don't know who she is, but it's very rare...and once I start singing one of her songs, they automatically realize.

I'm 22 and also heard of diana ross, heck I'm a huge fan of Diana ross.

**BobC** · 02-02-2012, 05:35 PM

I've got your back, Soulster.

I have noticed that most fan sites featuring...uhhh...aging divas are run by gay males. It is almost always the case. I don't know why that is. I also have noticed over the years that heterosexual women will idolize and lust over butt-ugly male singers like Rod Stewart or Steven Tyler--but heterosexual males tend to go for females singer who are very pretty [[Supremes, Heart, Pat Banatar, Beyonce). Plain female singers like Patti Smith or Joan Armatrading have tons of talent but never get the popularity their prettier peers get. I am sure there is a biological component in all this. I have also noted that black males, especially those over the age of 40 or 50, are more accepting of plain female singers like Patti Labelle or Dionne Warwick, than are straight white males--it's more about the singing ability than the hotness factor. Maybe gay men are more accepting of average looking female artists, or older female artists, because there is no sexual aspect to it. It is about the talent and glamor and legendary status.

**ejluther** · 02-02-2012, 07:34 PM

It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate.

I just want to point out that the scenario described had nothing to do with asking questions, it was about mocking someone because they're thought to be gay:

So, a straight man doesn't dare admit he likes any of these women, lest people snicker and think he's gay.

I didn't use the word "homophobia" to stigmatize anyone - I used it because it was appropriate. As for straight people, I have no problem with them. In fact, some of my best friends are straight!

**carlo** · 02-02-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.

I've never heard the term "homophobic" used to describe straight people who are "somewhat uncomfortable" around gay people. If someone has used the term to describe someone who is "somewhat uncomfortable"...then they obviously don't understand the real meaning of the word. They clearly don't know what they're talking about. There is a huge difference in my opinion between those who are "somewhat uncomfortable" and those who are "hateful", "bigoted" and/or "ignorant". People who are hateful, bigoted and ignorant are homophobic. There's no problem with being somewhat uncomfortable. Even some gay people themselves are "somewhat uncomfortable" when they're trying to come to terms with who they are. I'm sure everyone would love the term "homophobia" to disappear, but unfortunately, even if the term disappears, the hate and prejudice that the term "homophobia" is used to describe, will still continue. It's very real. It's just as serious as racism. There was a story a while ago where a guy was walking out of a McDonald's and he was attacked and beaten, just because he "looked gay". Homophobia is not about being uncomfortable. It's about ugliness and ignorance. It needs to stop. Hopefully one day the term "homophobia" will no longer exist, just like I hope one day, the term "racism" will no longer exist.

dzMusica · 02-02-2012, 08:07 PM

Being Gay is a Sin

**jobeterob** · 02-02-2012, 08:35 PM

That is a pretty uneducated comment, dzMusica. There is some similarity to saying "being black is a sin" and perhaps some people once held that view. What if people someday say that "being white is a sin"? Once upon a time, not that long ago, "being Jewish was a sin in Germany".

You need to consider that comment a little bit and do some research.

Many people feel they were born that way, many on this board, and your comment is not going to be received nicely.

You once asked me what gets a person banned on here; these kinds of comments go a long way toward that.

Do some research and consider that gay people are just people; and there are all variations that are subsets of "people"; good ones are the ones we are really looking to hang out with.

dzMusica · 02-02-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

That is a pretty uneducated comment, dzMusica. There is some similarity to saying "being black is a sin" and perhaps some people once held that view. What if people someday say that "being white is a sin"? Once upon a time, not that long ago, "being Jewish was a sin in Germany".

You need to consider that comment a little bit and do some research.

Many people feel they were born that way, many on this board, and your comment is not going to be received nicely.

You once asked me what gets a person banned on here; these kinds of comments go a long way toward that.

Do some research and consider that gay people are just people; and there are all variations that are subsets of "people"; good ones are the ones we are really looking to hang out with.

Stop asking me to do research and why don't you go read the Bible.

Blacks, Whites, Asians:they are races of people. Being gay is a lifestyle it it NOT A RACE.

I wonder how all the Motown people would feel by you saying the being Black was a sin.

**candykamaine** · 02-02-2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

I hate the term "homophobia." It is used to stigmatize straight people who are somewhat uncomfortable around gay people, and thus makes them afraid to ask questions. How do you get comfortable with a group of people you're not familiar with if you feel you can't ask questions? Gay people need to drop that term because I hate to tell you this, if someone doesn't hate you for being gay they'll find something else to hate. The key is being comfortable in your own skin and not giving a damn what other people think.

Also--what is this nonsense that whites and Hispanics aren't just as qualified as anybody else in discussing Motown? I'm white and know more about Motown than probably 90% of blacks--not bragging, just stating a fact. The more people claim they are beyond race, the more people are obsessed with it. I never gave a crap about these useless distinctions. Yes, groups tend to have identifiable traits on average, but at the end of the day we are all individuals.

I want to come up with a nicer way to reply to the bold but I'll just be quiet.
...
=======================
Any, this topic is going downhill in a handbasket...

**BobC** · 02-02-2012, 09:44 PM

Candy--no offense intended. But frankly, I work with black people who don't know or care about Motown. Say what you want--I'm a big boy. I can take it.

dz--homosexuality is not a race. You are right. But about 2 to 5% of the population is homosexual, so what is your point? That gay people are sub-human? Let me ask you one Biblical question: Give me one Biblical quotation from Jesus which said homosexuality is a sin or bad. There are exactly two comments in the entire Bible, to my knowledge, that even mention guys being with guys, and neither is from Jesus. Don't get me wrong--heterosexuality is the norm, but that doesn't mean gay people don't contribute to civilization in a big way. And where would half the artists, I'm assuming you love on this site, would still be performing today if not for gay fans?