Hey Harry, no TCMS 12? Why not fix past errors??

[kje71]

While TCMS V12 is in limbo, why hasn't hip-o managed to fix the past errors? ABC and Mama's Pearl being the wrong mixes to start with. I know there are a few other mistakes in the series as well regarding the wrong mixes being used. We paid good money for these sets, it's only right we get the correct masters.

[soulster]

I honestly doubt that Universal will sign off on a reprint on any errors in past volumes.

[kje71]

Why not? Hip-o sent out replacement discs that addressed the missing shotgun blast at the beginning of Junior Walker's "Shotgun" in V5 1965
Full list appears to be: "ABC," "Mama's Pearl," and "She's Good" by the Jackson 5; "I'm Livin in Shame" by the Supremes; and "Do You Love Me" by the Contours

[copley]

Why not? Well lets see. Time, cost, other current projects- HW & co are not sitting twiddling their thumbs, oh and logic!

[kje71]

There's plenty of Logic in it, we paid a premium for these sets that were meant to be historically accurate & complete. Somewhere someone messed up and it should be rightfully corrected. It's been about 3 years now, it's not much to ask, even the digital versions [[iTunes etc.) are wrong

[copley]

Nothing & no one is perfect. I'm 99.9% certain that will never happen but only HW can say for sure. I wish you luck.

[soulster]

Why not? Hip-o sent out replacement discs that addressed the missing shotgun blast at the beginning of Junior Walker's "Shotgun" in V5 1965
Full list appears to be: "ABC," "Mama's Pearl," and "She's Good" by the Jackson 5; "I'm Livin in Shame" by the Supremes; and "Do You Love Me" by the Contours

Yeah, but those were issued shortly after the initial release of those volumes, and there are several goofs in other volumes.

[thisoldheart]

i'll gladly do with the corrections being placed as an addendum on the yet to be release 1972 set. and don't forget that directory booklet that will tell us which volume and disc each single is on! you promised, harry!

[oldiesmusicfan]

I guess I missed some information! An error with Do You Love Me? I'll have to go listen again. Can someone please tell me what the mistake is and on what other CDs the correct 45 version has appeared? Is it on the Hitsville box?

Also, I don't recall ever hearing about a directory booklet. Was that actually supposed to happen? I do have all the boxes in the set and it would be real handy to have a directory.

Personally, I don't really care if Volume 12 is released or not because, for the most part, I lost interest in the sound of Motown around 1969. But I would certainly have to buy it to complete the set. Is it only a problem with the Stevie songs or are there other artists or companies that are holding the release up? Are all the missing songs available elsewhere?

Oldies

[mysterysinger]

I too have all volumes, so far, in the series. Whilst a CD along the lines of what is being suggested would be great, personally I wouldn't consider it to be an essential.

As for paying a premium for TCMS, I think they've been excellent value - well worth what I've paid for them, the information alone is superb and the packaging so appealing. That's before you even hear the CDs. Many of the songs I'd not heard before either. Harry & Co. have done a great job!

Can someone please confirm for me whether Terry Johnson's "Whatcha Gonna Do" on TCMS is the version released on single? The one I'm most familar with was issued on the UK compilation "The Motown Sound" - STML11217. This is quite different and, to me anyway, is smoother and a superior sounding version.

[jobeterob]

I have all of the Volumes too and while I'd like the last one, I rarely think about it.

I think to ask for a corrective volume or volumes or even an addendum after all this time, in today's market where all the CD stores are closing and the CD is tanking...........is really the devoted fan asking for too much.

It makes me consider how many people Universal laid off in the last 10 years ~ I'm sure thousands.

While it would be nice, the logic isn't there for it to happen.

[oldiesmusicfan]

I have to agree with jobeterob. The fact that this project was put together so well is enough for me. It's not called The COMPLETE Motown Singles for no reason. What I would like to have is a list of every error and omission in the set, and the corresponding correct information, but I don't expect to have this done by the creators of TCMS. Maybe it's already been done by one of our SDF members who is heavily into all things Motown related. If so, please post it!

I'm wondering why there has been no announcement that Volume 12 is never going to happen. I have to think maybe there is still hope due to the lack of a final "it's done folks!"

I'm just thrilled to have what we already have and give high praises to those responsible for the set. Thanks!

Oldies

[copley]

Harry has told me on several occasions that TCMS12A and 12B remain in limbo for the foreseeable future so read into that what you will! I think that he's still hopeful that maybe one day ........

[jobeterob]

And that is so in keeping with all things Motown................"today, tomorrow or in the coming year".

You can't complain any more; none of us can.

[soulster]

I guess I missed some information! An error with Do You Love Me? I'll have to go listen again. Can someone please tell me what the mistake is and on what other CDs the correct 45 version has appeared? Is it on the Hitsville box?

Listen to the version on the TCMSC. It's dry. There is echo on the original 45, the 70s reissued 45, and all other CDs containing the song. The point of the series was to recreate the 45 versions.

[bradburger]

I guess with such a huge project there were bound to be a few mistakes and oversights regarding which mix was the correct one.

At least they got the right mix of [[I'm A) Roadrunner on TCMS 66. Unless there was alternate pressings, [[which it would seem there wasn't as it's only included once on TCMS 66), the mixes on the first 'Hitsville USA' box & 'Nothing But Soul' are different!

I always wondered why they never sounded how I remembered my Dad's copy of Soul 35015A.

Cheers

Paul

[kje71]

All great points brought up in this thread. I could understand if they were obscure titles but errors on the J5 and Contours is a little mind boggling. If they have to do 1, I just mainly care about Mama's Pearl since that mono mix can't be found on disc ANYWHERE.

[keith_hughes]

I can answer one of the above questions easily - to answer all with the consideration they deserve would take more time than I have at my disposal if I'm to meet deadlines for other, forthcoming, projects.

Mysterysinger, someone wrote to me about "Whatcha Gonna Do" some months back, and I bought the LP on Ebay and compared it to the single version: the LP version is a stereo mix and the single is mono, and I think we found the right master for TCMS. Personally I still prefer the single version, though it's probably because that's the one I'm used to. I think - and I'm prepared to be proved wrong - that they are just alternative mixes of the same basic track, though I agree they sound very different.

As for the rest, thanks for all the comments, both positive and negative. As per my last conversation with HW on TCMS, nothing that's been suggested here is ruled out a priori, though to release the last two volumes as originally intended still depends on our getting clearance for the so-far-uncleared tracks.

Keith

[soulster]

If they have to do 1, I just mainly care about Mama's Pearl since that mono mix can't be found on disc ANYWHERE.

Actually, it can! It's appeared on at least two CDs in the CD age. The most recent one is the "Jackson Five Story". It's been deleted by Universal, but you can still find in in the stores if you look, and it's offered by Amazon as both CD and download.

[kje71]

Thanks a lot Keith for the response

Soulster, those use the same takes as the single & similar mixing but are in stereo, unless the single was just a fold down of that particular mix?

[tamla617]

the whole series is a work of art,[[imo)i can take the odd mistake.there are so many different mixes.uk 72 release of war is not the same as the gordy release etc.etc.they'd have to dig up einstien to work out who got what mix.because here we had some other versions from the american's.we also had 7" not released in the states and vicky vercky.i know we have a depth of knowledge on here and perhaps some of that could have been tapped by hipo.to ensure accuracy
but on the whole i'm happy with what i've bought [[all of them!).i can remember the day i found the 1st 4/5 volumes on amazon for the 1st time, my heart nearly left it's cage!
it was one of those...i knew where i was moments!
the one thing i cant stand is trying to drag a disc out of those card pouches,makes me cringe at the damage i could be doing.

[kenneth]

the whole series is a work of art,[[imo)i can take the odd mistake.there are so many different mixes.uk 72 release of war is not the same as the gordy release etc.etc.they'd have to dig up einstien to work out who got what mix.because here we had some other versions from the american's.we also had 7" not released in the states and vicky vercky.i know we have a depth of knowledge on here and perhaps some of that could have been tapped by hipo.to ensure accuracy
but on the whole i'm happy with what i've bought [[all of them!).i can remember the day i found the 1st 4/5 volumes on amazon for the 1st time, my heart nearly left it's cage!
it was one of those...i knew where i was moments!
the one thing i cant stand is trying to drag a disc out of those card pouches,makes me cringe at the damage i could be doing.

I totally agree with all you said. Like most collectors, I'm demanding and want everything to be as complete as possible. But this set is monumental in its breadth and scope, and will be the historical document for all things pertaining to Motown singles in the future.

Prior to this, all that was available was really the Marginal series of 7 CDs which were a real find when they came out. TCMS has completely obsoleted those earlier bootlegs.

[soulster]

Thanks a lot Keith for the response

Soulster, those use the same takes as the single & similar mixing but are in stereo, unless the single was just a fold down of that particular mix?

OK, I did an analysis, and it appears to be a genuine mono mix, but it has a serious phase problem. That phase problem could be on the tape itself. It could be that, and the engineer playing that tape back on a deck with a stereo head stack. I corrected it and now it sounds better. It's still a congested mix, though.

The difference is that the single mix has different vocals. Near the end of the stereo [[wrong mix), during the second bridge, Michael sounds more spirited where he sings "Let your lovin' go!". He sounds tired on the 45 mix. The fadeout is different, too.

I'd love to hear the story about exactly what happened to this recording. It sounds like it's been tinkered with a LOT, and it didn't even reach #1!

[thisoldheart]

i would hesitate to be very critical of this historic project. i would be more amazed if mistakes were not made! that said i distinctly remember reading in both a hippo-select press release and a personal email from the company that when the end of the project was finally determined there would be an index for all the material in all the volumes. as the project stands now, a forgetful person such as myself has to look up the title the "dontfogetthemotorcity" site to know what volume and disc to find a specific track.

after spending more than a thousand dollars i hope it isn't asking for too much to have this index printed in a similar bound booklet form that matches the set. those of us that spent the big bucks can certainly afford to purchase this much needed compendium. if this booklet were to happen, and of course it should[[!) this could give hippo-select the opportunity to include a disc to address any errors made in the previous set. i, also, see no reason for hippo not to release the last volume w/o the tracks that are unavailable for licsencing reasons. the notes to these songs could be included in the booklet. if the owners of the tracks do not want to be recognized in this historic set, then acknowledge their work, and have the actual track absent from multi-volumed set. it seems quite an agreeable and simple solution. certainly enough time has passed for these people to make up their mind!

[oldiesmusicfan]

Thank you Soulster, I'll check my other copies of Do You Love Me. There's nothing like the original 45 version in my opinion!

Still hoping for a Volume 12 A&B and would gladly pay for an index and CD [[or CDs) of corrections of errors and omissions once the project is completed, with or without Volume 12.

Oldies

[tamla617]

i would definatley NOT pay for a cd with error corrections.they can sling them out on the web for a free download.
we all paid,they messed up so if there is an ammendment its ours.end of.

as for an index...there is so much [[info) out there you can google.its there at a click.
they can put that out for free too.or do some more clicking on amazon/hipo anywhere and get the info yourself.

how about a photo album of all the tcms's covers too?they can drag it out for motown 100