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  1. #101
    On YAINTGB it's a mixture of Tammi and Valerie. That's the blend of voices that Valerie referred to once. Tammi sings some lines, Valerie others (where more power is needed). I found that hard to believe at first but seems obvious now.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by mysterysinger View Post
    On YAINTGB it's a mixture of Tammi and Valerie. That's the blend of voices that Valerie referred to once. Tammi sings some lines, Valerie others (where more power is needed). I found that hard to believe at first but seems obvious now.
    I think on YAINTGB that it's actually more Valerie than it is Tammi. I use to think that it was Tammi singing at the very beginning of the song and that Valerie came in around the 43-second mark and sang the rest of the song. But after re-listening to the first 90 seconds of the track several times in a row, I'm now beginning to think that it's actually Valerie singing very low and soft in her Tammi voice and Tammi's not on the record at all.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I think on YAINTGB that it's actually more Valerie than it is Tammi. I use to think that it was Tammi singing at the very beginning of the song and that Valerie came in around the 43-second mark and sang the rest of the song. But after re-listening to the first 90 seconds of the track several times in a row, I'm now beginning to think that it's actually Valerie singing very low and soft in her Tammi voice and Tammi's not on the record at all.
    This is what I meant 9 years ago when I said people are trying to “Scrape off Tammi”. Marvin himself never claimed Valerie sang on YAINTGB yet some people still insist otherwise.

  4. #104
    I don’t think Marvin Gaye ever specified what tracks Valerie stepped in for Tammi. I don’t think anyone is trying to erase Tammi from songs, we’re having a discussion and people are just discussing the facts and music.

    It’s my understanding that there are other unreleased tapes of Tammi attempting to sing. An individual who heard those tapes described Tammi’s voice as being frail and was convinced that it is indeed Valerie on the songs in question.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    I don’t think Marvin Gaye ever specified what tracks Valerie stepped in for Tammi. I don’t think anyone is trying to erase Tammi from songs, we’re having a discussion and people are just discussing the facts and music.

    It’s my understanding that there are other unreleased tapes of Tammi attempting to sing. An individual who heard those tapes described Tammi’s voice as being frail and was convinced that it is indeed Valerie on the songs in question.
    In DIVIDED SOUL, Marvin specifically mentioned the EASY album as an example of Valerie subbing for Tammi.

    Another Marvin bio subsequently published by MOJO Books (I believe) brought up the question of whether Valerie subbed on the single YOU'RE ALL I NEED TO GET BY as well. But Marvin didn't mention that one.
    Last edited by reese; 10-04-2020 at 09:43 PM.

  6. #106
    I went to the site DFTMC and looked the M&T Easy tracks up. Ludie Montgomery says Tammi had her 8th brain surgery in January 1970. So Tammi had possibly had 6 surgeries by the time Tammi recorded her vocals for that album. Can't really see her being able to go into a recording studio and take hours to record any vocals. Unless ?

  7. #107
    Interesting topic to revisit again; I think Valerie worked with Marvin on the songs and that is why Marvin said what he did. I think Tammi was brought in the studio later and Valerie's tapes or dubs were used to help Tammi through the songs so it look they (Marvin and Tammie were in the studio at the same time). Valerie and Nick used Tammie words line by line or word by word similar to what was done with Touch Me in the Morning. What you get is sometime just Val. There is probably only one person alive today that knows this.

  8. #108
    I’m sorry but comparing the 3 songs that Tammi did sing compared to the rest and it sounds very different.
    Quote Originally Posted by captainjames View Post
    Interesting topic to revisit again; I think Valerie worked with Marvin on the songs and that is why Marvin said what he did. I think Tammi was brought in the studio later and Valerie's tapes or dubs were used to help Tammi through the songs so it look they (Marvin and Tammie were in the studio at the same time). Valerie and Nick used Tammie words line by line or word by word similar to what was done with Touch Me in the Morning. What you get is sometime just Val. There is probably only one person alive today that knows this.

  9. #109
    That was not Valerie on You're All I Need to Get By. I'll go to the afterlife believing that.

    You know what I think now? David Ritz misconstrued Marvin's words about the "Easy" sessions. Marvin probably did tell him what songs Tammi sung on "Easy". It's also probable Tammi and Valerie shared vocals on a couple of songs. But I can tell Tammi was on a good chunk of "Easy" ("Good Lovin' Ain't Easy..." is definitely Tammi).

    We can probably settle the dispute here by putting in the dates of WHEN Tammi had surgery on her brain.

    I think the first surgery was January 1968? The last one (this one to just ease the pain as Tammi was clearly dying) was January 1970. So what happened in between these dates? And then we can go over "Easy" session dates and see if it makes sense. Obviously, she was there when N&V and Marvin worked on the album.

  10. #110
    Val is the only one of the 4 major players still alive so I'm starting to believe that she brought Tammi in and got what she could from her. It's still a good album.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    That was not Valerie on You're All I Need to Get By. I'll go to the afterlife believing that.

    You know what I think now? David Ritz misconstrued Marvin's words about the "Easy" sessions. Marvin probably did tell him what songs Tammi sung on "Easy". It's also probable Tammi and Valerie shared vocals on a couple of songs. But I can tell Tammi was on a good chunk of "Easy" ("Good Lovin' Ain't Easy..." is definitely Tammi).

    We can probably settle the dispute here by putting in the dates of WHEN Tammi had surgery on her brain.

    I think the first surgery was January 1968? The last one (this one to just ease the pain as Tammi was clearly dying) was January 1970. So what happened in between these dates? And then we can go over "Easy" session dates and see if it makes sense. Obviously, she was there when N&V and Marvin worked on the album.
    Good Lovin Ain't Easy, to my ears, is definitely Valerie Simpson. The track was finished in November 1968. Tammi herself is quoted in a magazine article published in November of '69, as saying that she had not been to Detroit to record in a year in a half. Aren't all of the tracks in question all produced by Ashford & Simpson? Things that make you go hmmmmm.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by TammiTerrellFan View Post
    Val is the only one of the 4 major players still alive so I'm starting to believe that she brought Tammi in and got what she could from her. It's still a good album.
    Has Berry Gordy ever been asked the question? He would have had to sign off on using Valerie on the recordings in question?

  13. #113
    For me, a key reason to think it's Tammi on YAINTGB is that Marvin mentions her name, "Tammi listen". I don't think that he would have mentioned her name on a song where Valerie is singing or where he is duetising a solo recorded Tammi song.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by rovereab View Post
    For me, a key reason to think it's Tammi on YAINTGB is that Marvin mentions her name, "Tammi listen". I don't think that he would have mentioned her name on a song where Valerie is singing or where he is duetising a solo recorded Tammi song.
    Maybe he recorded his part first as he often did expecting Tammi to fill in around his vocals later....just a thought

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    Maybe he recorded his part first as he often did expecting Tammi to fill in around his vocals later....just a thought
    Are you aware of other songs recorded in that sequence Paul where he mentions Tammi's name?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by rovereab View Post
    Are you aware of other songs recorded in that sequence Paul where he mentions Tammi's name?
    No but the vocals were possibly recorded separately who knows and does it matter now all these years later?
    Last edited by paul_nixon; 10-16-2020 at 03:15 AM.

  17. #117
    I've been following this thread for a while, and there is nothing of note that I can add to the debate, plus my lack of knowledge and the inability of my ears to note subtle changes would clearly prevent me. This is my own personal view and is not meant to try to influence or disagree with anyone else. Over the past few days I have listened to the CD twofer "United / You're All I Need" issued in the UK, the double CD "The Complete Duets", plus "Come On And See Me".

    Probably you are all correct in various ways, and I understand to get to the truth and the final answer would be very satisfying. However, for what it's worth, in my fantasy world I would like to think that Tammi gave all she could, the Motown "family" came together and used whatever they could and Valerie filled in wherever and whenever necessary to complete the project and provide a final and lasting tribute and memorial to Tammi.

    In no way am I saying that I am right, but for me some mysteries are never meant to be solved but we are all free to come to our own independent conclusions. I will continue to follow this thread and perhaps one day the full facts will appear, but in the meantime I am happy to have and listen to "Easy" based on my own, perhaps inadequate, understanding.

    Please accept that I don't intend to step on anybody elses toes or views.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    Maybe he recorded his part first as he often did expecting Tammi to fill in around his vocals later....just a thought
    Paul have you heard ALL of Tammi's recordings?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by reachoutuk View Post
    I've been following this thread for a while, and there is nothing of note that I can add to the debate, plus my lack of knowledge and the inability of my ears to note subtle changes would clearly prevent me. This is my own personal view and is not meant to try to influence or disagree with anyone else. Over the past few days I have listened to the CD twofer "United / You're All I Need" issued in the UK, the double CD "The Complete Duets", plus "Come On And See Me".

    Probably you are all correct in various ways, and I understand to get to the truth and the final answer would be very satisfying. However, for what it's worth, in my fantasy world I would like to think that Tammi gave all she could, the Motown "family" came together and used whatever they could and Valerie filled in wherever and whenever necessary to complete the project and provide a final and lasting tribute and memorial to Tammi.

    In no way am I saying that I am right, but for me some mysteries are never meant to be solved but we are all free to come to our own independent conclusions. I will continue to follow this thread and perhaps one day the full facts will appear, but in the meantime I am happy to have and listen to "Easy" based on my own, perhaps inadequate, understanding.

    Please accept that I don't intend to step on anybody elses toes or views.
    You do not need to apologize for voicing your opinion. There's an interesting "note" in DFTMC for the song I'm Your Puppet, a song on the Easy album. Thoughts?

  20. #120
    Wow it does say Valerie under female vocal

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    You do not need to apologize for voicing your opinion. There's an interesting "note" in DFTMC for the song I'm Your Puppet, a song on the Easy album. Thoughts?
    Thank you for this information. I've checked all the other entries from "Easy" on DFTMC and it seems that "I'm Your Puppet" is the only track where Valerie is mentioned.

    I'm relatively new to Valerie's songs apart from those which appeared on the later Complete Motown Singles and a couple of tracks on MU 1967 and 1969 (plus "The Key To The Kingdom"). It wasn't until I saw on the COM5 thread which was issued on the Caroline label, that there were the two albums on one CD by Valerie also on Caroline. I've only had it a couple of weeks but perhaps over time, if I listen particularly to "Exposed" I will get to know her voice better.

    You asked me for my thoughts! Well, I listened To "I'm Your Puppet" followed by "More, More, More". In the latter Marvin sings Tammi's name, so assuming that it is Tammi singing, then I tried to draw a comparison. I felt that Valerie's voice was slightly smoother but I preferred Tammi's voice which I thought had a slightly rougher throatier edge to it. That may well put me in a minority of one as far as that description is concerned, but I'm still learning! Thank you for steering me in this direction.

  22. #122
    It should be noted that only “I’m Your Puppet” has the VS note. The rest of the “Easy” tracks don’t have that. It’s possible, emphasis on possible, that Val only sang for Tammi just for that one song and that may managed to get at least a couple of lines from Tammi on the others. If you listen to the mono version of “Satistfied Feelin’”, you hear two female voices from the second verse on. I believe one is Tammi and the other is Valerie in her natural voice singing in tandem to help smooth things out.
    Last edited by jboy88; 10-16-2020 at 05:12 PM.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by reachoutuk View Post
    Thank you for this information. I've checked all the other entries from "Easy" on DFTMC and it seems that "I'm Your Puppet" is the only track where Valerie is mentioned.

    I'm relatively new to Valerie's songs apart from those which appeared on the later Complete Motown Singles and a couple of tracks on MU 1967 and 1969 (plus "The Key To The Kingdom"). It wasn't until I saw on the COM5 thread which was issued on the Caroline label, that there were the two albums on one CD by Valerie also on Caroline. I've only had it a couple of weeks but perhaps over time, if I listen particularly to "Exposed" I will get to know her voice better.

    You asked me for my thoughts! Well, I listened To "I'm Your Puppet" followed by "More, More, More". In the latter Marvin sings Tammi's name, so assuming that it is Tammi singing, then I tried to draw a comparison. I felt that Valerie's voice was slightly smoother but I preferred Tammi's voice which I thought had a slightly rougher throatier edge to it. That may well put me in a minority of one as far as that description is concerned, but I'm still learning! Thank you for steering me in this direction.
    More, More,More is definitely Tammi! It was initially a solo recording but Marvin was dubbed in to make it a duet. Even though they were cut years apart, it has the same energy as the tracks that are genuine duets.

  24. #124
    With all of this debate, I need to remind myself that Tammi was reportedly taken to Motown's recording studios in a wheelchair to record YAINTGB. That determination prevailed even later when she was reported being seen on a bus heading to the studios for, presumable recordings for Easy.

    The strength and determination of this young, hugely talented and beautiful singer is staggering. It's not surprising she might have needed a little help from Val, especially if the reports are true of her suffering from aspects of paralysis.

    Despite all of this, we are left with some of the best duets ever recorded by two artists who deserved so much better in their lives.

    For me, YAINTGB is the pinnacle of their achievement and I am sure the song will be played by many generations to come.

    What a tragic loss to us all.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by reachoutuk View Post
    Thank you for this information. I've checked all the other entries from "Easy" on DFTMC and it seems that "I'm Your Puppet" is the only track where Valerie is mentioned.

    I'm relatively new to Valerie's songs apart from those which appeared on the later Complete Motown Singles and a couple of tracks on MU 1967 and 1969 (plus "The Key To The Kingdom"). It wasn't until I saw on the COM5 thread which was issued on the Caroline label, that there were the two albums on one CD by Valerie also on Caroline. I've only had it a couple of weeks but perhaps over time, if I listen particularly to "Exposed" I will get to know her voice better.

    You asked me for my thoughts! Well, I listened To "I'm Your Puppet" followed by "More, More, More". In the latter Marvin sings Tammi's name, so assuming that it is Tammi singing, then I tried to draw a comparison. I felt that Valerie's voice was slightly smoother but I preferred Tammi's voice which I thought had a slightly rougher throatier edge to it. That may well put me in a minority of one as far as that description is concerned, but I'm still learning! Thank you for steering me in this direction.
    I always thought that it was interesting that most, if not all, of the songs on Easy were "completed" on the same day. And if I'm not mistaken all of the songs that are not former TT solo recordings are also produced by A&S.

  26. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    It should be noted that only “I’m Your Puppet” has the VS note. The rest of the “Easy” tracks don’t have that. It’s possible that Val only sang for Tammi just for that one song and that may managed to get at least a couple of lines from Tammi on the others. If you listen to the mono version of “Satistfied Feelin’”, you hear two female voices from the second verse on. I believe one is Tammi and the other is Valerie in her natural voice singing in tandem to help smooth things out.
    So stated another way, VS was capable of singing and sounding exactly like Tammi, to the point where she could have done the same on other Marvin and Tammi recordings?

  27. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by SatansBlues View Post
    So stated another way, VS was capable of singing and sounding exactly like Tammi, to the point where she could have done the same on other Marvin and Tammi recordings?
    I said it was possible, not a concrete fact. Just like it’s possible that people who have access to the tracks can’t agree on who’s vocals they are either. Most of the liner notes on more recent sets leave it to the listener to decide.

  28. #128
    I think it was long ago concluded that Valerie Simpson is on some or many or a lot of the Gaye/Terrell songs.

    Just as it was unthinkable for years that Andantes and a dozen other background singers took the place of or augmented Mary Cindy and Florence, the same happened with Terrell and Simpson.

    As the years go by, it means little to me; the songs are still the songs as they always were.

    One of the Motown executives told me 10 years or so ago that it is best not to ask too many questions about these issues unless you are prepared for answers you might not want to hear.

  29. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_nixon View Post
    Maybe he recorded his part first as he often did expecting Tammi to fill in around his vocals later....just a thought
    According to Valerie and Nick, Marvin & Tammi recorded the song in the studio LIVE so no.

  30. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by jboy88 View Post
    It should be noted that only “I’m Your Puppet” has the VS note. The rest of the “Easy” tracks don’t have that. It’s possible, emphasis on possible, that Val only sang for Tammi just for that one song and that may managed to get at least a couple of lines from Tammi on the others. If you listen to the mono version of “Satistfied Feelin’”, you hear two female voices from the second verse on. I believe one is Tammi and the other is Valerie in her natural voice singing in tandem to help smooth things out.
    That's quite plausible. Tammi and Valerie have distinctive vocals that make them different. In most of "Easy", I hear Tammi mostly. I could say VS may have been on TWO songs. Maybe.

  31. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    According to Valerie and Nick, Marvin & Tammi recorded the song in the studio LIVE so no.
    the question is now answered and put to bed - so the thread should be closed
    Last edited by paul_nixon; 10-20-2020 at 12:49 PM.

  32. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    That's quite plausible. Tammi and Valerie have distinctive vocals that make them different. In most of "Easy", I hear Tammi mostly. I could say VS may have been on TWO songs. Maybe.
    What two songs do you think that Valerie S. may be singing on?

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