how many records have the 1970's Supremes sell: Up the Ladder, Floy Joy The Walking

[franjoy56]

is there a listing of these as well as the albums of the 1970's. delighted to
learn that Stoned Love was a huge steady seller. How could my world is empty
sell more than Back in my arms again, i know the latter song was dropped from the
supremes repertoire after the far east tour in japan, and my world is empty stayed in
the act till ross left.

[BayouMotownMan]

We've talked about this subject on so many threads. It's not about peak position, it's about weeks in the upper reaches of the charts and time of the year it charted. I can believe My World outsold Back In My Arms.

From research I have done, Up The Ladder sold close to 900,000 copies, Floy Joy barely 500,000 copies. Let Me Heart no more than 150,000

[Penny]

Not enough!

Penny

[BobC]

Rick--in your estimation based on experience--how many records does a group have to sell to break even on production costs? I'm just speaking generally here.

[smark21]

Of the 900k copies sold of Up the Ladder, how many are still being played by the person who bought it [[or played by whoever it may have passed on to) and how many are either collecting dust in an attic, basement, or flea market, or sitting in a landfill somewhere?

[Jimi LaLumia]

what does that have to do with anything?

[jobeterob]

I believe in the notes for one of the recently reissued CDs, or in some other interview recently, Mary Wilson said the albums did not sell that well and were progressively less successful; I've gone looking for it but haven't been able to locate it. But who knows just what that means.

I wonder if there wasn't a good enough single on New Ways to follow up Stoned Love?

[BobC]

As a kid coming up in the 70's near Buffalo, NY, I never heard any of the 70's Supremes records on the radio, with the exception of Stoned Love, which was an oldie. I heard the 60's Supremes stuff all the time, but not the 70's. I didn't even know the Supremes went on after DR--and I was really into pop music and R&B. Even today, when I occasionally listen to an oldies station, I only ever hear 60's Motown stuff--which I'm frankly tired of. It seems almost like something radically changed in the 70's--it's almost like the 70's never happened. I hear Stop in the Name of Love or You Keep Me Hanging On all the time, but huge 70's hits like Alone Again Naturally or Temptation Eyes almost never get played. I don't know why.

[florence]

is there a listing of these as well as the albums of the 1970's. delighted to
learn that Stoned Love was a huge steady seller. How could my world is empty
sell more than Back in my arms again, i know the latter song was dropped from the
supremes repertoire after the far east tour in japan, and my world is empty stayed in
the act till ross left.

franjoy can you give alink to where this info. comes from?

Thanks.

[florence]

We've talked about this subject on so many threads. It's not about peak position, it's about weeks in the upper reaches of the charts and time of the year it charted. I can believe My World outsold Back In My Arms.

From research I have done, Up The Ladder sold close to 900,000 copies, Floy Joy barely 500,000 copies. Let Me Heart no more than 150,000

BayouMotownMan,

Do you have any estimation for the sales of Stoned Love in the US?

Another thread is saying 3m - now I can't say that is wrong but it would seem to me to be a worldwide sale.

Most estimates I have seen for Ladder are around 800/900k.

Floy Joy reached #16 in Cashbox so with Nathan Jones making #10 and Everbody's Got The Right To Love #14 would these singles have sold somewhere in the region of 500k, Nathan maybe a bit more?

[jobeterob]

The 70's generally were regarding as an artistic disappointment after the huge success of the 60's. Disco is generally pretty forgettable and that was too much of the 70's.

That is partly why you don't hear much of the 70's Supremes on the big radio channels anymore and it is also why everything gets tagged to Diana Ross or Diana Ross and the Supremes ~ because the 60's overshadowed everything.

And there isn't alot of individual name recognition for any other Supreme ~ no matter how much a crazed fan will want it.

[marv2]

The 70's generally were regarding as an artistic disappointment after the huge success of the 60's. Disco is generally pretty forgettable and that was too much of the 70's.

That is partly why you don't hear much of the 70's Supremes on the big radio channels anymore and it is also why everything gets tagged to Diana Ross or Diana Ross and the Supremes ~ because the 60's overshadowed everything.

And there isn't alot of individual name recognition for any other Supreme ~ no matter how much a crazed fan will want it.

Bobc was speaking terms of not hearing music from the 70's in general on the radio, not just the Supremes music from the 70's. I am finding that to be the total opposite here in NYC Metro. They are playing fewer and fewer songs from the sixties and earlier [[i.e. 50's, Doo Wop, Rockabilly, etc.) and more and more from the 70's and 80's. One way it's been explained is that now the kids from the 70's and 80's are the target market for Oldies Stations and they want to hear more of the music they grew with. They are no longer targeting the earlier members of the "Baby Boom" which was mostly 60's music. In the view of programmers, it has run it's course and they are now moving up in decades in terms of oldies music. Thank God for the Internet where you can easily find Internet Station that are devoted to very specific music types and have "generational stations". Some that play all 60's music.

[BobC]

That makes sense, Marv. Texas may be...uhhhhhh... a bit behind. Hee hee!

[redlabs]

jobeterob, i always thought TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE SUCH SWEET MUSIC was going to be the follow up but next thing the Spinners had it as a single. will have to check out their version.

[luke]

In the last few months I have heard Up the Ladder and Stoned Love blaring in Stop and Shop! In the 70s FLoy Joy, Automatically Sunshine, River Deep and Nathan were all over Philly/NY radio as well as Ladder and Stoned. Although I dont understand it didnt Automatically reach number one in DC and Hawaii?

[marv2]

In the last few months I have heard Up the Ladder and Stoned Love blaring in Stop and Shop! In the 70s FLoy Joy, Automatically Sunshine, River Deep and Nathan were all over Philly/NY radio as well as Ladder and Stoned. Although I dont understand it didnt Automatically reach number one in DC and Hawaii?

"Floy Joy" was very popular on Soul stations in 1971-72. It was also played at our parties in school and around the neighborhood.

[marv2]

In the last few months I have heard Up the Ladder and Stoned Love blaring in Stop and Shop! In the 70s FLoy Joy, Automatically Sunshine, River Deep and Nathan were all over Philly/NY radio as well as Ladder and Stoned. Although I dont understand it didnt Automatically reach number one in DC and Hawaii?

Luke i believe that was "Bad Weather" reached those heights in those markets.

[marv2]

That makes sense, Marv. Texas may be...uhhhhhh... a bit behind. Hee hee!

\



Texas Bob? Texas? I thought you were in Baltimore or somewhere cool [[smile) I was in Baltimore yesterday. I am in Detroit now and yes there is a like a cultural divide between here and Texas LOL!

[Jimi LaLumia]

Floy Joy was a no show on NY Top 40 stations, I know MUSICRADIO 77 WABC AM didn't play it; maybe WXLO FM, 99X, I don't recall..

[marv2]

Floy Joy was a no show on NY Top 40 stations, I know MUSICRADIO 77 WABC AM didn't play it; maybe WXLO FM, 99X, I don't recall..

I bet WWRL played it a lot.

[Jimi LaLumia]

now that I think of it, I believe that WXLO 99X WAS on "Automatically Sunshine', but they were hardly tops in the ratings, not enough of a 'power' to make a difference

[marv2]

now that I think of it, I believe that WXLO 99X WAS on "Automatically Sunshine', but they were hardly tops in the ratings, not enough of a 'power' to make a difference

Jimi, by 1972 stations were more segregated in terms of types of music than they ever were in the sixties. As FM became more popular, along with album Rock stations, Top 40 was no longer kings. Songs like "Floy Joy" may have received a lot of airplay in New York, but on Soul stations.

[Jimi LaLumia]

IN 1972, 77WABC was still the be all, end all of what went all the way and what didn't;
if they didn't add a record, a lot of other Top 40 AMs didn't either, and after the "Touch"
fiasco, WABC never added another Supremes record ever again, and because they were NY based
they always leaned R&B/ disco/'black',as their sales reports were influenced by records that got
started on WWRL AM; that's how ABC wound up playing stuff like "Say It Loud I'm Black And
I'm Proud" to their primarily white audience

[luke]

WABC was the worst--they rarely played anything beyond their top 20-BORING--WMCA NYC was much better playing other songs.

[Jimi LaLumia]

In 1970, fresh out of high school, I interviewed Cousin Brucie[[the king of night time DJs) and the station's program director Rick Sklar, who said two very important things to me when I quized him on the 'tight playlist, both of which I'd never thought about;
#1-"we're not in the music business, we're in the RADIO business
#2-"people don't always know what they like, but they sure do like what they know"..
both turned out to be quite true, right up to the present moment

[luke]

Not for me--I came to dislike many of the hits they constantly played--they totally killed Hey Jude for me. Kind of an arrogant attutude for Brucie. Thankfully other radio stations took risks or ABC would have had litttle to play!

[Jimi LaLumia]

you and I are not casual listeners that Top 40 aims for,we are 'deeper' into it, not the average
..the sought after listeners for Top 40 are the folks that listen in their car for 20 minutes on their way to somewhere and want mental comfort food, what makes them relaxed, which for hundreds of millions who listen to radio and have NEVER bought a record, they like what they heard yesterday, last week and last year..hate to break it to ya, but that's been the model for Top 40 since the dawn of rock & roll right up to the present moment

[marv2]

you and I are not casual listeners that Top 40 aims for,we are 'deeper' into it, not the average
..the sought after listeners for Top 40 are the folks that listen in their car for 20 minutes on their way to somewhere and want mental comfort food, what makes them relaxed, which for hundreds of millions who listen to radio and have NEVER bought a record, they like what they heard yesterday, last week and last year..hate to break it to ya, but that's been the model for Top 40 since the dawn of rock & roll right up to the present moment

Understood. That is also the reason why Top 40 Radio is dead! Once other options became available such as FM, television music video channels, satellite radio, internet radio etc,etc people were drawn to them. Many went to niche outlets that served their personal tastes in music. Love Cousin Brucie but he should have added that too much of the same thing can be bad for you also.

[Jimi LaLumia]

re read my post;
those quotes did not come from Brucie but from his boss, Rick Sklar, the power behind WABC;
I would think that you guys know that DJs do not determine the playlist at really big 50k watt stations;
the 5k watt WMCA which was a ratings 'dwarf" next to WABC could only try to compete with a longer
playlist but the signal couldn't really make it over Long Island or most of WABC's listening area,and WABC crushed all 'competition" with that signal from 1960 right up to the late 70's when Disco 92 WKTU
finally beat them with Disco and the clean FM signal

[marv2]

re read my post;
those quotes did not come from Brucie but from his boss, Rick Sklar, the power behind WABC;
I would think that you guys know that DJs do not determine the playlist at really big 50k watt stations;
the 5k watt WMCA which was a ratings 'dwarf" next to WABC could only try to compete with a longer
playlist but the signal couldn't really make it over Long Island or most of WABC's listening area,and WABC crushed all 'competition" with that signal from 1960 right up to the late 70's when Disco 92 WKTU
finally beat them with Disco and the clean FM signal

Ok Rick Sklar miscalculated then.

[franjoy56]

www.answer.bag.com

or
type in the words how many records have the Supremes sold.

You will find My World is empty at 1.3

Back in my Arms again at 1.029 Million

franjoy can you give alink to where this info. comes from?

Thanks.

[florence]

www.answer.bag.com

or
type in the words how many records have the Supremes sold.

You will find My World is empty at 1.3

Back in my Arms again at 1.029 Million

Thanks.

I now realise I've seen these before. There is no indication where these came from and some of those figures look suspiciously high.

For example, JRT claimed Baby Love wasn't an instant million seller and only passed the figure in later years.

As with all of Diana/Supremes figures it's a case of conjecture. Could be right - could not.

[florence]

As at the end of 2008 according to The Official Charts Company in the UK Stoned Love was the 28th biggest selling Motown record of all time with sales of aaround 330k.

The only Diana/Supremes records which surpassed this were Baby Love #8, Upside Down #11 and I'm Still Waiting #18.

[franjoy56]

that is amazing that stoned love shined so brightly in england, and this is considering
many of the 60's supremes records didn't fare as well as the 70's hits, and stoned lv leads the
pack..

[Jimi LaLumia]

and 'floy joy' and 'automatically sunshine' were huge hits over there

[Strange]

Thanks.

I now realise I've seen these before. There is no indication where these came from and some of those figures look suspiciously high.

For example, JRT claimed Baby Love wasn't an instant million seller and only passed the figure in later years.

As with all of Diana/Supremes figures it's a case of conjecture. Could be right - could not.

Ooooh, didn't see we had another Motown sales chat ongoing! Doh.

Anyway, as I was saying on the 'Stoned Love' thread, you have to say that JRT is right on this occasion Florence, given the evidence that is and not the hype! The only conjecture is going against the known awards from the industry body who audits the shipments - the RIAA. And they say it too.

The rest is 'just my imagination, running away with me' as a great group [[with plenty of certs) once said...!

[redlabs]

why do people doubt what the Supremes record sales were.? strange to me.

[Strange]

As at the end of 2008 according to The Official Charts Company in the UK Stoned Love was the 28th biggest selling Motown record of all time with sales of aaround 330k.

The only Diana/Supremes records which surpassed this were Baby Love #8, Upside Down #11 and I'm Still Waiting #18.

Florence, you mentioned the UK figure the other day for Stoned Love and I didn't realise it comes from a whole list of Motown records. Can you also post that up for us, or put up a link to where it's at?

[Strange]

why do people doubt what the Supremes record sales were.? strange to me.

That's me. Strange by name and Strange by nature! I don't doubt anything, I like to try and establish the truth as best as possible and not just believe any old stuff I read. Anyway, it's a bit of fun, a harmless pastime. If you don't want to join in that's ok too - you'll miss out on the headaches making sense of it all so probably wise!

[florence]

Florence, you mentioned the UK figure the other day for Stoned Love and I didn't realise it comes from a whole list of Motown records. Can you also post that up for us, or put up a link to where it's at?

I've bumped the thread with the information in it up. I really should have checked it before posting wrong information - Stoned Love is actually the 27th biggest selling Motown single in the UK on 355k.

[Strange]

Thanks.

I now realise I've seen these before. There is no indication where these came from and some of those figures look suspiciously high.

For example, JRT claimed Baby Love wasn't an instant million seller and only passed the figure in later years.

As with all of Diana/Supremes figures it's a case of conjecture. Could be right - could not.

Hi Florence - do you have the JRT book that listed some of the Diana sales? I think either you are jobeterob mentioned you did have it and would look them out. It would be interesting to me, especially as the later editions saw them removed...I had a JRT Diana book that was mostly great photos [[hence why I bought it!) and a basic biog but I'd have noticed if figures were included, particularly if supposedly from Motown.

And did he say more about the Supremes than just that comment on 'Baby Love'? TIA.

[florence]

Hi Florence - do you have the JRT book that listed some of the Diana sales? I think either you are jobeterob mentioned you did have it and would look them out. It would be interesting to me, especially as the later editions saw them removed...I had a JRT Diana book that was mostly great photos [[hence why I bought it!) and a basic biog but I'd have noticed if figures were included, particularly if supposedly from Motown.

And did he say more about the Supremes than just that comment on 'Baby Love'? TIA.

Yes, interesting that he dropped the figures and the question is why? I tried unsuccessfully to contact him.

I did see it claimed that the documention had been cut so that he saw shipments only and not returns. He never stated where he got his info.from.

One interesting thing is that in the second book he still claimed that You Can't Hurry Love was a million-seller.

[tomato tom]

As a British London based Pan AM flight attendant back in the time period you guys are talking about, I mainly flew to New York, Detroit, Washington DC, San Fransisco, Los Angeles, and Miami. On my layovers, when I got to my hotel room, the first thing I would do is turn on the radio. The contrasts were amazing. I remember Floy Joy being played a lot in DC and Detroit, and Miami. Never heard it otherwise. Bad Weather I heard once in San Fran. And in Tampa. Automatically Sunshine was on the radio every hour it seemed in San Fran. Oh, I just remembered being in Houston one time hearing floy Joy too!..Paulo xxx

[motownlover1964]

When I was in college in Green Bay, Wisconsin in the early 1970s the "new" Supremes records were played consistently through Automatically Sunshine. After that I never heard another new recording by them and when I saw the Jimmy Webb LP while flipping through record bins was surprised to not only come across a copy but that no cuts were played at all. In 1974 I recall reading something in one of the trade publications about the Supremes running into "bad weather" when that song flopped. It was a few years later that I first heard it.

But in May 1975 I had moved to LA and heard the radio commercial for The Supremes 1975 LP and then they played "He's My Man." I thought it would become a hit and was disappointed it didn't. But nothing was a fun as going dancing and hearing "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and "Love Hangover" the same night.

[jobeterob]

There was a lot of promise at that time. But as I recall the follow up, You're What's Missing In My Life didn't go anywhere and then Mary Scherrie and Susaye did not make the Top 200 and that signalled the end.