How many copies did "Stoned Love" sell by the Supremes in 1971

[marv2]

I agree, the average person is casual when it comes to pop music, and Motown did nothing to reach them with the news..people sitting in their living room when Sullivan said Ross was leaving the group, do you think the average person sitting on the couch was hanging on Ed's every word?..I was, but even then, I knew most people weren't; there wasn't a TV special celebrating this event [[and "Farewell" SHOULD have been on tv, but there was very little attention paid, and the "Farewell" album, as I recall, DIDN'T sell)..
the average yokel had been brainwashed with the name "Diana Ross & The Supremes" since 1967, so, by 1970,anything Supremes to the average yokel would always be attached to Ross, unless a huge campaign took place, and it didn't..
I don't remember Ross or Terrell being trotted up to NY Top 40 radio to announce/discuss the change, nocover photos on magazines like "Life" Or "Look" or any mainstream media, or even Rolling Stone, etc paying attention..
Motown DID NOT push this event, not to the mainstream public, not really,, they didn't

I understand what you are saying and agree. I do believe that Look Magazine ran a cover story on Ross before she went solo but mentioned that she would be going solo. I know Time ran articles about the New Supremes and of Ross new solo concerts. Ebony did a cover story and Dick Clark showed clips from the farewell concert on American Bandstand. It was a big entertainment news story in 1969-70. The most successful American music act was breaking up. If you were around back then, how could you not know? LOL? I am not asking that last question of Jimi, rhetorically speaking I mean.

[marv2]

Roger,
I do remember the confusion over "Up The Ladder To the Roof". DJ's constantly said it was Diana Ross and The Supremes.

That never happened where I lived or traveled. If anything, you would hear DJ's say " The New Supremes" and something about "Jeannie Terrell" being the sister of Heavyweight boxer Ernie Terrell. "Up the Ladder to the Roof" came out only a couple months after "Someday We'll Be Together" and the farewell concert for Diana Ross and the Supremes so our DJ's knew about that and were not dumb enough to make that simple mistake.

[marv2]

Not nearly as transparent as you Miss Looky. LOL

Now do you really want to go there Jonc / Clucketta?

[luke]

I lived near NY and Philly markets and never heard anything but" The Supremes " when Jean joined and their records announced. WABC, WIBG, WFIL...; I saw them at Atlantic City Steel Pier twice and the convention center was SRO.

[florence]

I think that Motown were genuinely surprised by the lack of success that DIANA ROSS's first solo effort "Reach Out And Touch" had compared with the first SUPREMES effort without her "Up the Ladder To The roof".

These are the respective chart positions .. Billboard for the US .. Guinness Book Of Hit records for the UK

"Up The Ladder To The Roof"
US "Pop" : 11 weeks, peaking at #10
US R&B : 13 weeks, peaking at #5
UK : 15 weeks, peaking at #6

"Reach Out And Touch"
US "Pop" : 9 weeks, peaking at #20
US R&B : 9 weeks, peaking at #7
UK : 5 weeks, peaking at #33

I think people at Motown were genuinely concerned that Diana's solo career was going to stall.

Indeed, those who have the 1970 volume of "The Complete Motown Singles" should check out the last track on Disc 52 which is a special disc sent out to Motown's distributors by Barney Ales complaining about the "underperformance" of "Reach Out And Touch", stating that everybody knew it was "a number one record" and implying that they weren't doing their job properly.

On this basis I can see that there may have been confusion amongst the record buying public about who was actually in the group. I had no such confusion, being a 16 year old Motown obsessive living in Sheffield, England, but then, when I think about it, being on a tight budget, I bought "Up The ladder To The Roof" at full price immediately upon release. It was only after a few months had gone by that a copy of "Reach Out And Touch" entered the collection [[a cheap ex-juke-box copy as I recall).

Roger

Wasn't it Diana herself who pushed for the release of "Reach Out And Touch"?

I had read that Berry didn't see any of the songs on the first solo album as being a big hit [[and that included Mountain! - how wrong can you get) and added the Johnny Bristol written "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" intending it to be the lead single but Diana got her own way.

[BobC]

I never heard "Reach Out and Touch" at the time it came out, but have heard it many times since then--and I think it is a very weak record. I can't believe anyone thought that was single material. "Ain't No Mountain" and "Touch Me in the Morning" were far superior choices, IMO.

"Stoned Love" was a hit because it is frankly a masterful record. I only hear it a few times as a kid and still it grabbed me. When I first heard "Floy Joy" I was shocked at how hokey it was. "Automatically Sunshine" was, to me, boring old lady music. The first record I fell in love with was "Aquarius" by the 5th Dimension--but I noticed they also started doing what I considered boring old lady music in the early 70's. Ever heard the album "Living Together, Growing Together?" DREADFUL. No wonder they became "uncool."

[BayouMotownMan]

As I recall the actual US sales for Stoned Love was like 1.5 million. A huge hit for sure having outsold the Diana Ross-led singles except for Love Child, Gonna Make You Love Me and Someday We'll Be Together

[Jimi LaLumia]

and since we;re talking 'sales',any stats on River Deep Mountain High?

[motony]

Jimi, I think I heard 300,ooo for the Tops & Supremes River Deep which I thought sounded high.I find it hard to beleive that Stone Love sold over a million in the US.

[BayouMotownMan]

River Deep sold over 600,000 copies

[dianesfan_1965]

River Deep sold over 600,000 copies

Didn't it out sale Tina Turner's original?

[BayouMotownMan]

Oh yea it outsold Tina's original, by a long shot

[jillfoster]

Jimi, I think I heard 300,ooo for the Tops & Supremes River Deep which I thought sounded high.I find it hard to beleive that Stone Love sold over a million in the US.

it's not hard to believe at all. Once again, and i've mentioned this before... Stoned Love peaked the third week of December, any hit song will sell far more units when it peaks right in the heat of Christmas shopping season, especially the week before.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Ladder,Stoned and River deep are played frequently on WCBS FM NY the biggest oldies station in the country

[jillfoster]

To believe that sale I reckon you'd need to be 'stoned' yourself Marv2! You've just made it about the biggest selling single of the decade...

Of course, a compeltely ridiculous statement... the biggest selling single of the decade was Debby Boone's "You Light Up My Life" coming in at a little over 8 million copies.

[smark21]

Of course, a compeltely ridiculous statement... the biggest selling single of the decade was Debby Boone's "You Light Up My Life" coming in at a little over 8 million copies.

Well that's certainly proof positive of PT Barnum's quote [[or perhaps it was HL Menken's quote) : YOu will never go broke underestimating the taste of the American Public.

[marv2]

I lived near NY and Philly markets and never heard anything but" The Supremes " when Jean joined and their records announced. WABC, WIBG, WFIL...; I saw them at Atlantic City Steel Pier twice and the convention center was SRO.

That's right. You're talking about some of the biggest stations in the country serving the most densely populated markets not some Bug Tustle type place where it sounds like they have DJ's like the ones Captain James referred to in his post. I'll say it again, if you've heard of the group "Diana Ross & the Supremes" back then, then you also heard that she was replaced by a more soulful singer named Jean Terrell. Even if you cannot remember the name Jean Terrell in 2011 you heard it back at that time in America. Now that is not to say that every American citizen listen to Pop and or Soul Music. There are demographic groups that listen to what they like be it C&W, Classical, Acid Rock, Folk Music or whatever. The point I am making is that when the biggest group in the U.S. split up, it made the news and newspapers nationally.

[marv2]

I never heard "Reach Out and Touch" at the time it came out, but have heard it many times since then--and I think it is a very weak record. I can't believe anyone thought that was single material. "Ain't No Mountain" and "Touch Me in the Morning" were far superior choices, IMO.

"Stoned Love" was a hit because it is frankly a masterful record. I only hear it a few times as a kid and still it grabbed me. When I first heard "Floy Joy" I was shocked at how hokey it was. "Automatically Sunshine" was, to me, boring old lady music. The first record I fell in love with was "Aquarius" by the 5th Dimension--but I noticed they also started doing what I considered boring old lady music in the early 70's. Ever heard the album "Living Together, Growing Together?" DREADFUL. No wonder they became "uncool."

BobC, I heard "Reach Out and Touch Somebody's Hand" on the radio regularly during it's original release at least for a short while. Stations I listen to at that time were located in Detroit, Toledo, Ohio and Windsor Ontario [[CKLW the powerhouse of North America). It was nice song that we just didn't know what to do with it. The song however has been popular enough that it can be heard in some churches as a part of the benediction. I've heard sung in church a few times. It just didn't have the punch that many of the most popular songs had then like "Stoned Love". "War". "Ball of Confusion" "The Love Save".......all Motown releases, but all were powerful, soulful, rockin' recordings. Gladys Knight & the Pips "Friendship Train" also comes to mind now that I am thinking about it.

[marv2]

Jimi, I think I heard 300,ooo for the Tops & Supremes River Deep which I thought sounded high.I find it hard to beleive that Stone Love sold over a million in the US.

As much as both of those records were played even those figures sound on the low side to me. We bought the albums also.

[marv2]

it's not hard to believe at all. Once again, and i've mentioned this before... Stoned Love peaked the third week of December, any hit song will sell far more units when it peaks right in the heat of Christmas shopping season, especially the week before.

Jill, you are right as usual. In fact, "Stoned Love" was the number song in the country on the R&B/Soul Charts Christmas Week 1970.

[marv2]

Ladder,Stoned and River deep are played frequently on WCBS FM NY the biggest oldies station in the country

Jimi, they play them also on B-103 or 103.1 Long Island's Oldies Station located not far from me. For better understanding of the reach of this station, Long Island has approximately 3.1 Million residents which offers great potential for any radio station and even greater for 103.1 as it is the only Oldies Station the Island even though we also in the listening area for WCBS 101.1 Special shout out to Cousin Brucie! LOL!

[marv2]

Didn't it out sale Tina Turner's original?

You know I never even heard Ike & Tina Turners version until sometime in the mid 70's! I believe it was originally released back in 1966.

[marv2]

Of course, a compeltely ridiculous statement... the biggest selling single of the decade was Debby Boone's "You Light Up My Life" coming in at a little over 8 million copies.

Yeah I remember that song. It was like number one forever in 1977-78!

[marv2]

Well that's certainly proof positive of PT Barnum's quote [[or perhaps it was HL Menken's quote) : YOu will never go broke underestimating the taste of the American Public.

There was nothing wrong with that song. I actually liked it even though I was listening to more Funk and Soul music back then. I don't remember movie that it was from too much though.

[Jimi LaLumia]

what was talked about is that currently there is confusion about who's on what..
in 1970, NO ONE said that Ross was singing on any of the Terrell records,it's what happened in the subsequent years,and Motown's apparent indifference to the group, perhaps because of the quarrels with Mary, Jean wearing out, or the desired spotlight being aimed solely at Ross [[or all of the above,not to mention inferior singles choices as time went on)
the casual music fan/radio listeners pays no mind to any of these details anyway, they just don't, it's not important to them,which is why, in a country of hundreds of millions, a record that sold one million ,or even half a million, was a big deal back in the days before platinum

[motony]

Wow, thats hard to beleive that "River Deep" by Tops & Sups sold that much!Kudos to them, hope they got paid, LOL I love Phil & Tina too much to accept others doin their stuff, I must admit Levi & Jean sounded damn good.I guess 45's sales must have really gone up uring the early 70's compared to the 60's.Bigger audiance for Soul music in general, I guess.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the Ike & Tina version sold about 10 copies in America when it was released as a single, it was a total stiff, and this is what drove Phil Spector over the cliff so to speak..
it WAS a hit in New Jersey,oops, the UK, sorry....lol

[motony]

Well, I guess I was one of the ten.Dynamic.Really put Ike & Tina in the public spotlight. Southern Soul Stations in Fla. all played it.For a few weeks.Pop station in Miami where all Phils records were big, played it BUT Phil Spector had made very stupid comments about disc jockeys at a convention and so his bread & butter just quit playin his record to teach him a lesson...it worked & he really was finished as far as Philles Records.

[Jimi LaLumia]

it WAS dynamic, I'm a fan, but it WAS a stiff, so there was no public spotlight provided for I&T by that record, not in America, anyway..years later, it took on mythic status and people ASSUMED it was a hit, it wasn't..until The Supremes/4 Tops version

[marv2]

the Ike & Tina version sold about 10 copies in America when it was released as a single, it was a total stiff, and this is what drove Phil Spector over the cliff so to speak..
it WAS a hit in New Jersey,oops, the UK, sorry....lol

I've always liked Ike & Tina Turner [[Revue) as an act but when I hear how rough their version is compared to the Supremes & Four Tops, it is just no comparison as to which record sounded better in terms of vocals, harmonies, instrumentation and most of all , CLARITY....I loved the Supremes and Four Tops version more. I thought their version was the original version back at that time, 1970.

[motony]

Ike & Tina opening for the Stones was because of their association with Spector & Ike & Tina became more popular with the rock crowd & started getting better bookings & TV. It didn't hurt that River Deep was big in Europe & got heavy airplay on the pirate radio stations.I loved the Wall of Sound & thought the Beatles best records, as a group & solo, were those that Phil produced.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Ike & Tina River Deep peaked at #88 on the Hot 100,just looked it up

[roger]

The IKE & TINA TURNER original of "River Deep, Mountain High" was indeed a hit in the UK in 1966 .. debuting on 9th Jun 1966, spending 13 weeks on the charts and peaking at #3.

At the time the #1 spot on the UK sales charts was occupied by the likes of "Paperback Writer" by THE BRATLES and "Lazing On A Sunny Afternoon" by THE KINKS.

The record got a major push from offshore "pop-pirate" station Radio London and on the week of 26 Jun 1966 they actually had it as #1 on their survey [[which like a lot of radio station charts bore little relationship to actual sales)

Here it is at #1 on the "Big L Fab 40" ..

http://www.radiolondon.co.uk/rl/scra...fab260666.html

And for those chartoholics who want to map it's progress on the Fab 40 here is the index page for 1966 ..

http://www.radiolondon.co.uk/rl/scra...rty/index.html

At the time Radio London [[which broadcast from a ship off the coast of Essex) was most probably the most listened to Top 40 station in the world with a signal that covered most of Southern, Central and Eastern England [[not to mention Northern France, Belgium, Holland and parts of Germany) .. it was owned by the same group of Texas Businessmen who ran stations such as KLIF in Dallas and had a similar format.

The IKE & TINA TURNER original of "River Deep Mountain High" also had a renewed UK chart run in the spring of 1969 when it was re-promoted during the height of the British "Soul-Reissue" boom .. reaching #33 in a 7 week chart run.

In contrast the SUPREMES & FOUR TOPS remake only reached #11 on the UK charts in 1971, spending 10 weeks on the listings ..

Roger

Inidentally .. the "Essex" where Radio London was located was the area to the east of London in England .. NOT to be confused with the Essex in New Jersey ...

[Jimi LaLumia]

lol...good one..

[Bokiluis]

"Diana Ross presents The Jackson 5" had only "I Want You Back" and "Touch Me in the Morning", which obviously came out around the same time as "New Ways but Love Stays", had only the #1 title track as it's only single.

So everything was not conspiracy to undermine the other artists on the Motown stable. 2 of Motown's premiere acts were given similar treatment.

[Bokiluis]

"Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5" and "Touch Me in the Morning" both had #1 singles from two of Motown's key acts without a follow-up single. So there was no great conspiracy to undermine the other artists, including The Suprms 70s, for Diana's benefit.

Berry Gordy was a business man after all, and a darn successful one at that.

[johnjeb]

Diana Ross' "Everything Is Everything" LP was released a couple of months after "New Ways..." and had no singles from that LP in the US.

For a few years around the late 60s/early 70s Motown would release a batch of albums in the Fall. So I guess it was all about getting the product out for whatever sales objective they had at the time. It was a dilemma for us fans who had to make decisions on what to buy and when before some of the albums disappeared from the stores.

"Together We Can Make Such Sweet Music" was the only other song from "New Ways..." that could have been a commercial success for The Supremes. I don't understand why it was never released. Maybe they were saving it for a release by The Magnificent 7 from their album or by The Spinners, which eventually saw release in 1973 with a new mix. A lost opportunity for Motown, and of course The Supremes, to let a great song like that not get a single release.

[Bokiluis]

Berry Gordy had great business acumen. Do you think he would really walk away from a single that was working and selling?
I cannot get into Mr. Gordy's head, but, when he said he "washed his hands of dealing with The Supremes" when mary defied his suggestion to have the great Syreeta replace Diana instead of Jean. I think it meant that no longer would he be the top priority at the label that his focus would be elsewhere. That's very different than walking away from something that was selling and working.

[Bokiluis]

If "Reach Out and Touch [[Somebody's Hands)" was such a "weak record", Aretha recorded it for her iconic "Live at the Fillmore West" album. Yolanda Adams, arguably one of the most forceful voices in contemporary gospel, did a stirring version of it on Diana's inducted as a Kennedy Center Honoree as an indication that it indeed has a strong non-secular appeal. It has been covered by a host of artists especially during troubled times.

[marv2]

If "Reach Out and Touch [[Somebody's Hands)" was such a "weak record", Aretha recorded it for her iconic "Live at the Fillmore West" album. Yolanda Adams, arguably one of the most forceful voices in contemporary gospel, did a stirring version of it on Diana's inducted as a Kennedy Center Honoree as an indication that it indeed has a strong non-secular appeal. It has been covered by a host of artists especially during troubled times.

Yeah that was a weak record compared to what Motown was releasing at that time.

[luke]

Yes it was very odd for a Motown release. But no denying Diana worked it and had people holding hands. Id love to hear what Yolanda did with it--Diana aint exactly a rousing gospel singer.

[skooldem1]

[Strange]

"Stoned Love" sold 3 million originally. I wonder how many copies it's sold overall or cumulative total is?

To believe that sale I reckon you'd need to be 'stoned' yourself Marv2! You've just made it about the biggest selling single of the decade...

]

Not true "Strange". I am not stoned, thanks. When I get back from Thanksgiving holiday [[and if I remember LOL), I'll reseach it for you and then can more readily accept what I just told you. Geez! LOL!!!

Well Marv2 I hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving and maybe can now enlighten me with your research that’ll give any semblance of credence to ‘Stoned Love’ shifting three million copies anywhere as a single, nevermind in the States!

As I recall the actual US sales for Stoned Love was like 1.5 million. A huge hit for sure having outsold the Diana Ross-led singles except for Love Child, Gonna Make You Love Me and Someday We'll Be Together

Well BayouMM, at least that figure is somewhat more realistic, but still way too high for the States. Maybe global, but even then doubtful. What, or from where, do you recall such a figure btw?

[Strange]

Jimi, I think I heard 300,ooo for the Tops & Supremes River Deep which I thought sounded high.I find it hard to beleive that Stone Love sold over a million in the US.

Motony is more in tune with how records were selling it seems in relation to their chart standings as best as we can ever know anyhow…but then as JillFoster writes, there are some additional seasonal factors at play here:

it's not hard to believe at all. Once again, and i've mentioned this before... Stoned Love peaked the third week of December, any hit song will sell far more units when it peaks right in the heat of Christmas shopping season, especially the week before.

But even so Jill, you’ve got to know the way charts work and are collated too, which you might do, I don’t know, but in this case peaking in the chart the third week of December only means that you peaked at street-level in the first week of December…sufficient difference to actually not be gaining from the heat of the Xmas shopping season! Additionally, the chart peak is usually the end of the re-order demand and pre-existing stock on the shelves will cater for most of the remaining buying interest.

But overall there would appear to be a reasonable chance that ‘Stoned Love’ might have won an RIAA gold award at the time had it been Motown’s policy to apply for the certifications. I just found it daft that Marv2 and others seem to go against all logic and dream up totals in the three million range. Which leads me to your other comment about that:

"Stoned Love" sold 3 million originally. I wonder how many copies it's sold overall or cumulative total is?

To believe that sale I reckon you'd need to be 'stoned' yourself Marv2! You've just made it about the biggest selling single of the decade...

Of course, a compeltely ridiculous statement... the biggest selling single of the decade was Debby Boone's "You Light Up My Life" coming in at a little over 8 million copies.

Where on earth did you ever imagine Ms Boone sold 8 million copies of ‘You Light Up My Life’ – it sure wasn’t the US!

As far as I’m concerned the RIAA is the official certifying body for record shipments in the States and although many mistakes and under and over-certifications no doubt exist, that is what we should go by. The highest certification for a physical single is four-times platinum during over 50-plus years of awards, so if you think Debby sold double that, well that’s ok, but let’s not let the known facts get in the way!

[BobC]

Bok--my feeling that that record was weak is just me stating my opinion, if that is okay with you. That's why I said it was "in my opinion." Second, I think the sales of that song confirm that I was not the only one who held that view.

Strange, "You Light" was an enormously huge record in the 70's in the US. I remember it very well--that and "Love Will Keep Us Together" were both massive singles. In fact, I would imagine it has sold more than 8 million at this point because everybody wanted it played at their weddings, engagement parties, anniversaries, etc. Don't get me wrong--I hated that song, but then I hate most "feel good" songs. I prefer feel bad songs. Which is why I went on to punk rock after disco started giving me a headache in the late 70's.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Jimi LaLumia & the Psychotic Frogs-Death To Disco..
one of your punk faves, Bob?

[jobeterob]

The rules for sales are if you like the artist, triple their sales.

If you don't like the artist, reduce the sales by 65%.

If you are nuts, make post after post, one after the other, answering yourself and convincing yourself you have to be right.

[BobC]

I was actually more into New Wave than hardcore punk. Bands like the Smiths and the Cure.

[marv2]

Well Marv2 I hope you enjoyed Thanksgiving and maybe can now enlighten me with your research that’ll give any semblance of credence to ‘Stoned Love’ shifting three million copies anywhere as a single, nevermind in the States!



Well BayouMM, at least that figure is somewhat more realistic, but still way too high for the States. Maybe global, but even then doubtful. What, or from where, do you recall such a figure btw?

I am in Detroit. I could try to track down Kenny Thomas who wrote song and ask him, or it will have to wait until I return to New York on Dec. 2. Thanks.

[marv2]

According to Wikipedia, "Stoned Love" sold 2.4 million copies worldwide. I don't believe they are the most accurate source however.