Patti Labelle addresses audience about RTL

[marv2]

Mary's grace and dignity, now that Luke brags on it so............is on display in this interview from 2 minutes to 3 minutes; even many long time Mary fans say she did not come off well here.

It wasn't a happy time for Supremes fans; only the bitter like to rehash it........."bitter", a word we hear Barbara Walters using several times to describe Ms. Wilson.

Nah, you would have to see the whole interview Mary did. I don't believe her interview from "Primtime Live: Downtown" was ever uploaded to Youtube in it's entirety. It was about 35 -40 mins long. It aired on Thurs night that week in April , 2000 and Diane's aired on Friday night. Mary won that war hands down!

When she did the "My Life" speech standing out in front of Hitsville, I knew it was all over for the "Return to Love " tour. Even I was amazed at her "delivery" LOL!!!!

[marv2]

I don't pick sides when it comes to RTL...because I went to see the show myself. BUT, I think to do any Supremes-type show/celebration without Mary and Cindy is naive. It was a great show, but I really don't know what Diana was thinking.

To me, Diana came off as somewhat bitchy in the 20/20 interview. "She's been singing MY songs. I'M THE ONE who's had the solo career for 30 years." Give me a break. lol.

When she said the part about "She's been out there singing MY SONGS....", she cut her own throat live in front of a national television viewing audience! Just 24 hours earlier Mary Wilson stated in her interview that "There is one thing that I've known about Diane every since we were 13 years old and that is she wants everything for herself! She does not like to share......"! I don't remember if I was laughing at that or disgusted by that personal revelation, that what Mary said the night before was true! The other comment that Ross made that completely buried her that not many realized it at the time was......"We could have offered her [[Mary Wilson) the moon , and she still would not be happy" Now that one is the one that really did it! LOL!!!! Thanks Jobeterob for this reminder.

[marv2]

If you want my opinion Mary came across as bitter during her interview on 20/20 and Diana came across as spoiled and done with Mary on the Barbara Walters interview the next night. Mary and Cindy should have been on the tour but did SFX or Diana pull the plug on them? I have no idea and I don't think anyone does but Mary, Diana and SFX. I have to say I do believe Diana when she said she deliberately stayed out of the negotiation between Mary and SFX. When negotiations broke down Diana should have gone on and did a solo tour. That said I was fortunate enough to see the MSG RTL concert and thought is was a fantastic show with Diana on top of her game.

Both ladies acted badly during this time and both ladies deserve equal amounts of blame. The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

It was a stain on the Supremes legacy during the year 2000 but 11 years later i doubt the average Joe or Jane could tell you what RTL even stands for and more than likely has no idea that there was a Supremes reunion in 2000 that ended badly. it's only a small core group of fans that harp on and on about it and can't seem to move on, which is odd as Mary and Diana have both moved on.

Anyway, this is my very last posting on this tired subject that has been beaten to death.

Moving on.

Roberta

Mary was not on "20/20" she was on "Primetime Live: Downtown" where after her interview they held a special online chat with Mary. Didn't you watch the show?

[marv2]

If you want my opinion Mary came across as bitter during her interview on 20/20 and Diana came across as spoiled and done with Mary on the Barbara Walters interview the next night. Mary and Cindy should have been on the tour but did SFX or Diana pull the plug on them? I have no idea and I don't think anyone does but Mary, Diana and SFX. I have to say I do believe Diana when she said she deliberately stayed out of the negotiation between Mary and SFX. When negotiations broke down Diana should have gone on and did a solo tour. That said I was fortunate enough to see the MSG RTL concert and thought is was a fantastic show with Diana on top of her game.

Both ladies acted badly during this time and both ladies deserve equal amounts of blame. The only one that remained a true lady was Cindy Birdsong and sadly she's the one that could have used the money most but Cindy has God in her life so she's spiritually richer than all former Supremes.

It was a stain on the Supremes legacy during the year 2000 but 11 years later i doubt the average Joe or Jane could tell you what RTL even stands for and more than likely has no idea that there was a Supremes reunion in 2000 that ended badly. it's only a small core group of fans that harp on and on about it and can't seem to move on, which is odd as Mary and Diana have both moved on.

Anyway, this is my very last posting on this tired subject that has been beaten to death.

Moving on.

Roberta

That is another thing that made Miss Ross look dishonest here. She said that she had nothing to do with the negotiations, but in the next breathe she says she took their offers and doubled them. Hmmmm.......

[carlo]

Mary was not on "20/20" she was on "Primetime Live: Downtown" where after her interview they held a special online chat with Mary. Didn't you watch the show?

Mary was on 20/20, which was also called Primetime Live: Downtown at that time. They're the same thing I believe.

[jobeterob]

Carlo that was frickin hilarious........."they are the same thing", LOL. I've had the best laugh tonight over that.

I am certain there is complete irony in what you wrote ~ total poetic justice; reducing paragraphs of claptrap to a swift summary.

Thank you.

[marv2]

Mary was on 20/20, which was also called Primetime Live: Downtown at that time. They're the same thing I believe.

Nope. "Primetime Live" was always a separate news magazine program ABC developed to compete with NBC's Dateline. They added the "Downtown" part once the show became so popular that it ran a couple nights during the week. 20/20 with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters started in the late 70's on ABC and became the networks equivalent of "60 Minutes" on CBS.

[marv2]

Carlo that was frickin hilarious........."they are the same thing", LOL. I've had the best laugh tonight over that.

I am certain there is complete irony in what you wrote ~ total poetic justice; reducing paragraphs of claptrap to a swift summary.

Thank you.

Huh? He just made a little innocent mistake. Don't go crazy! LOL!!! Anyway, the guy that interviewed Mary was Jay Schadler. She took him with her around Detroit during her interview at different locations.

[jillfoster]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

[marv2]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

]

Excellent points Jill! I may not know a lot about a lot of things, but I do know "Middle America" and I also know that Diana Ross' portion of these dueling interviews did not play well at all with them! Not everyone knows all these details about Motown, the Supremes ,etc as people on the forum know. What they remember is three young black girls from Detroit forming a group and striking it big. Once they became big, one quit the group to go "solo", another one ended up dead on welfare and the other one got pushed aside and became "the forgotten Supreme". So imagine here we are, in the year 2000 and everyone is hearing that the Supremes are planning a big reunion tour and there on your television is Mary, the forgotten Supreme in tears explaining how she is being mistreated. THEN, the next night you have the former lead singer on just smiling and acting carefree and acting like she couldn't possibly understand the problem is with Mary?

I'm telling you, that kind of stuff does not play well with Middle America no matter how hypocritical we can sometimes be as a country overall. The thinking is how can you watch your childhood buddies suffer and just giggle about it all?

[marv2]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

The one part that was a little tough was when Barbara Walters practically begging Diana Ross to say something, anything that would make it possible for she and Mary Wilson to work together again on stage and Diana's response was basically she couldn't think of anything at all! She went on to fess up without realizing it and by that I mean that the whole negotiation thing with Mary and Cindy was a farce because she never had any intention of taking them on that tour with her from the beginning. She even stated in the interview that I don't think I want to be onstage with Mary Wilson again. Well if that was how she felt, why go through all those machinations to lead the public and Mary and Cindy into believing that she was sincere in putting together a reunion tour with them?

[Rosie]

The whole problem is that Barbara just gave Diana a platform to pontificate and didn't challenge her in any way. Jay Schadler certainly challenged Mary... "That's not enough?" I thought Mary's only mistake was her answer to that question. She should have worded it differently, and said... "Of course, it's enough... but we have always worked for percentages, and I just want work under the same terms I did before". I don't fathom why why people seem to think that Mary, who used to get 33% of Supremes revenue, should suddenly be a Supreme again and work for 10%. And I've also noticed that when people want to discount someone's anger thye always say they are "bitter" as if it is some big sin to be bitter about something, and if someone is bitter, then they NEVER have the right to be. Well, big, fuckin deal. the word "bitter" is not a get out of jail free card. If someone has a right to their anger, they have a right to it. People were just used to Mary smiling and taking whatever was dished out. Theyv'e never dealt with long fuse passive agressive types. when they blow, you better stand the hell back or get ta steppin! But I'm good with how things turned out, because Diana's public embarrassment and drowning her sorrows in booze are what she deserves for being so damn selfish and not giving the fans, her CUSTOMERS, what they want after making her rich beyond her wildest dreams. And for the record... Sam Moore told her to take the money and shut up because that's what HE would do. Well... if his self-respect is for sale, that's fine, but not everybody is like that. Mary just was tired of being USED.

The truth is the truth! You can only be discounted for so long! Its not a good feeling, nor is it healthy to continue to allow it to happen. When you know better you do better.

[luke]

Mary came across as very bright and assertive. I remember thinking what a great answer-about deserving a third as a founding member. People are no fools. Diana IMO came across as condescending and illogical. And I never understood how she looked that night. I swear she looked like a prison inmate in that orange outfit, seemingly no make up. Didnt get it. The whole thing made no sense-Mary accepted final offer and was told train had left station. Doesnt that sum it up? Diana was playing games. Even Diana devotee JRT said in his book all Diana had to do was sit down and treat Mary to a nice lunch and their would have been a reunion!! Once she saw she couldnt run the show it was over. Thankfully there was no reunion. Can you imagine Mary and Cindy following behind her at GCT? Sitting in audience on Oprah? Singing 3000 feet away from her in concert? Ugh.

[skooldem1]

Mary Wilson came off very bad. She looked crazy at one point. She seemed so bitter. She came across as someone still jealous of the lead singer of her group-damn near 40 years after the fact. Diana remained professional and at times confused by all of this. She stood her ground and took the higher road. I find it odd that Diana Ross has been at the receiving end of viscious rumors and inuendo for many years. The ONE time she tried to defend her name, she gets called out on it. That makes no sense at all. She spoke up, and some Supreme and Mary Wilson fans couldn't take it. Cause we all know that its not that Mary knows so much dirt on people [[Diana), it's that DIANA knows the dirt also and came very close to spilling it all. Just that one little tidbit about "Mary seems to have forgotten that I've helped her..." let you know right there that IF she wanted to get real about and put Mary on blast that she could have. She hinted at it- but remained classy about it. I don't think Diana did anything [[during that interview) but defend herself. She didn't come across as catty. The public wasn't aware at the time that Mary not being on this tour was MARY'S fault. Knowing their history, I can totally see why it was up to each lady to do her own bidding. Everyone keeps saying fair is fair and that it should have been divided equally. Thats bull crap. They were not being paid a "salary" by Berry Gordy, or Motown. This is the real world. Mary was playing with the big boys and failed. That is her fault that she coudn't negotiate and agree to terms that would have made her happy. Diana wasn't receiving, as we all know, a lump sum of money to do this tour. She was going to get percentages. That is the contract SHE negotiated. Mary should have tried to do the same thing. No matter how some will try to spin this, it was up to Mary and Cindy as grown professional women to negotiate and try to get what they wanted. It turns out that that what they really wanted was DIANA to do something for them. NOT. In the end many supreme fans feel Diana should have done this and should have done that. I say forget that. She doesn't need to take care of Mary and Cindy's business. Back to that interview. I was so glad Diana finally spoke her mind. She remained classy, while Mary still looked like someone who doesn't have a clue.

[carlo]

Nope. "Primetime Live" was always a separate news magazine program ABC developed to compete with NBC's Dateline. They added the "Downtown" part once the show became so popular that it ran a couple nights during the week. 20/20 with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters started in the late 70's on ABC and became the networks equivalent of "60 Minutes" on CBS.

"For a time from 1998–2000, ABC News combined 20/20 and Primetime Live to compete with Dateline NBC. The editions were called 20/20 Monday, 20/20 Wednesday, 20/20 Thursday, 20/20 Friday, 20/20 Sunday, and finally 20/20 Downtown. In 2000 ABC News returned the news magazines to the original 20/20, reinstating Primetime Thursday, and spinning off 20/20 Downtown as simply Downtown. By early 2002, the show was airing again in only its original Friday timeslot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_%...sion_series%29

[carlo]

The one part that was a little tough was when Barbara Walters practically begging Diana Ross to say something, anything that would make it possible for she and Mary Wilson to work together again on stage and Diana's response was basically she couldn't think of anything at all! She went on to fess up without realizing it and by that I mean that the whole negotiation thing with Mary and Cindy was a farce because she never had any intention of taking them on that tour with her from the beginning. She even stated in the interview that I don't think I want to be onstage with Mary Wilson again. Well if that was how she felt, why go through all those machinations to lead the public and Mary and Cindy into believing that she was sincere in putting together a reunion tour with them?

Exactly. If Diana really wanted to tour with Mary and Cindy, she could have made it happen and she would have not accepted no as an option. At the end of the day, she could have said, "I tried. Maybe next time. I will just go out and do a solo tour instead." The fact that she went out to tour with Scherrie and Lynda proved that she saw Mary and Cindy as disposable. Basically an attitude of, "I don't need either of you. I can make a Supremes tour work on my own."

[jobeterob]

And in the end..........that's how it has turned out............Diana doesn't need any Supremes and likely won't ever stand on a stage with any of them.

Mary carried on, changed up her shows, and does what she does.

The FLOS carried on with their shows and do their own thing.

Barbara has made a comment or two; Flo watches down perhaps.........

And they've all pretty much lived happily ever after, no ones throwing water, no ones beating up cadets, everyone's voice is holding up better than Adele's and Whitney's and Dionne's and Aretha's; we've had no ends or trips likes Michael's and Whitney's.

Supremes fans have much to be thankful for?

Or still unhappy???

And Carlo, you too, were very funny; I loved you for that.

[luke]

This is certainly where Berry came in in the past for her. This was a PR disaster for her. When she had behaved this way he would-I assume-fix it or prevent it or cover it up). A lot of stuff didnt make the papers then[[screaming at airport about her dog, Latin Casino behavior, slapping people...) Now everything does. JRT's book said there were people warning her to not go ahead with tour sensing the disaster that was coming.

[carlo]

Yes, it's true that we have much to be thankful for.

I wasn't trying to be funny. lol.

[jeff9nyc]

Yes, Bob... Diana stole dresses from Martha and them as well. More than once. the yellow they wear signing The Happening are just one such set.

That is such a silly thing to write Jill. Why would you make up stuff like that? Show me the shot of Martha wearing those gowns? The Supremes were so famous at that point. The time that was written about with the "dress stealing" was back in '62 or so before the hits when they were all on tour together.

[skooldem1]

Much to the dismay of some, Diana's career flourished after that tour. Many honors were in store, her previous work being re-released, a new studio album that was her highest charted album in 20 years, sold out shows across the globe. High profile TV appearances. No need for her to look back. That's for fans stuck in a time warp. She should just keep it moving and do what makes her happy until she retires. If she decides she wants to share her stage with Mary and Cindy that's up to her. However, it is so not necessary.

[motownlover1964]

I find it interesting that in the past Diana said that she doesn't look back; is always moving forward but try as hard as she might she has never escaped the long shadow that was The Supremes. I always hated it when she would do her Supremes-medley in concert as a toss-off. But now she is doing those songs in full versions these days. But, I agree with you skooldem1 that she flourished and all the bad press from 10-12 years ago no longer holds up. She's touring, getting rave reviews and seems quite happy.

To be honest 11 years ago I wanted the reunion but now after seeing Diana solo many times and Mary solo many times I no longer care if they ever stand together again. They both have gifts to share with those who love them.

It's time to put the RTL-tour to rest.

[marv2]

Mary came across as very bright and assertive. I remember thinking what a great answer-about deserving a third as a founding member. People are no fools. Diana IMO came across as condescending and illogical. And I never understood how she looked that night. I swear she looked like a prison inmate in that orange outfit, seemingly no make up. Didnt get it. The whole thing made no sense-Mary accepted final offer and was told train had left station. Doesnt that sum it up? Diana was playing games. Even Diana devotee JRT said in his book all Diana had to do was sit down and treat Mary to a nice lunch and their would have been a reunion!! Once she saw she couldnt run the show it was over. Thankfully there was no reunion. Can you imagine Mary and Cindy following behind her at GCT? Sitting in audience on Oprah? Singing 3000 feet away from her in concert? Ugh.

Man, if it was going to be like that, it would have never worked! First of all, Mary Wilson had been solo with her own show for over 20 years by that point. Next, if Diana Ross is suppose be a multimillionaire with 100's of millions of dollars, then why is it that she had to have such a great amount more than either Mary or Cindy to do the tour? I think they offered Cindy something like $ 500,000 originally. What was up with that? Did Diana need that much money? She had not been hitting any gold bricks herself for years by that point in terms of record sales, movies ,etc.

As far as how she looked? She looked like she had been drinking.

[skooldem1]

I remember around this time, on the Tom Joyner Morning show, they were all joking on Mary. Tom said "Diana.....PLEASE call her". As if to say, please talk to this woman because she is getting on not only your nerves, but everyones nerves. So just call her. LMAO. His whole crew started laughing.

[marv2]

Mary Wilson came off very bad. She looked crazy at one point. She seemed so bitter. She came across as someone still jealous of the lead singer of her group-damn near 40 years after the fact. Diana remained professional and at times confused by all of this. She stood her ground and took the higher road. I find it odd that Diana Ross has been at the receiving end of viscious rumors and inuendo for many years. The ONE time she tried to defend her name, she gets called out on it. That makes no sense at all. She spoke up, and some Supreme and Mary Wilson fans couldn't take it. Cause we all know that its not that Mary knows so much dirt on people [[Diana), it's that DIANA knows the dirt also and came very close to spilling it all. Just that one little tidbit about "Mary seems to have forgotten that I've helped her..." let you know right there that IF she wanted to get real about and put Mary on blast that she could have. She hinted at it- but remained classy about it. I don't think Diana did anything [[during that interview) but defend herself. She didn't come across as catty. The public wasn't aware at the time that Mary not being on this tour was MARY'S fault. Knowing their history, I can totally see why it was up to each lady to do her own bidding. Everyone keeps saying fair is fair and that it should have been divided equally. Thats bull crap. They were not being paid a "salary" by Berry Gordy, or Motown. This is the real world. Mary was playing with the big boys and failed. That is her fault that she coudn't negotiate and agree to terms that would have made her happy. Diana wasn't receiving, as we all know, a lump sum of money to do this tour. She was going to get percentages. That is the contract SHE negotiated. Mary should have tried to do the same thing. No matter how some will try to spin this, it was up to Mary and Cindy as grown professional women to negotiate and try to get what they wanted. It turns out that that what they really wanted was DIANA to do something for them. NOT. In the end many supreme fans feel Diana should have done this and should have done that. I say forget that. She doesn't need to take care of Mary and Cindy's business. Back to that interview. I was so glad Diana finally spoke her mind. She remained classy, while Mary still looked like someone who doesn't have a clue.

Oh I loved that part when Ross says " I have contributed to her life, maybe she has forgotten that...." HA! It was a $30,000 LOAN that Mary wrote about 10 years earlier in her book "Supreme Faith". It was a loan that Mary paid back within a year with interest! How about how Mary and Florence and just about everyone else at Motown contributing to her life! She would not have been nothing if she was not in the group called the Supremes. No one was looking for skinny bug-eyed , whiny voiced singer to make a star! She need to get real.

As time went on, I am sure Mary and Cindy realized that the dumb promoters had given Diane full reign over the entertainment budget or rather over the money that would be paid to the artists. That's why she said that all Mary had to do was just show up! She's crazy! No one is going to accept terms like that, least of all Mary Wilson, an original Supreme.

[skooldem1]

You don't know how many times sister Diane helped Mary out. You only know about the one time Mary admitted to. I'd also have to say that you don't know what the terms/amount/and payback plan were. All you and I both know is Diana helped Mary out in her time of need. She came to Diana for help.

[marv2]

"For a time from 1998–2000, ABC News combined 20/20 and Primetime Live to compete with Dateline NBC. The editions were called 20/20 Monday, 20/20 Wednesday, 20/20 Thursday, 20/20 Friday, 20/20 Sunday, and finally 20/20 Downtown. In 2000 ABC News returned the news magazines to the original 20/20, reinstating Primetime Thursday, and spinning off 20/20 Downtown as simply Downtown. By early 2002, the show was airing again in only its original Friday timeslot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20/20_%...sion_series%29

Exactly. In 2000 when they did the interview with Mary, it was again "Primetime Live" I watched it here in New York where they produced the show.

[marv2]

Exactly. If Diana really wanted to tour with Mary and Cindy, she could have made it happen and she would have not accepted no as an option. At the end of the day, she could have said, "I tried. Maybe next time. I will just go out and do a solo tour instead." The fact that she went out to tour with Scherrie and Lynda proved that she saw Mary and Cindy as disposable. Basically an attitude of, "I don't need either of you. I can make a Supremes tour work on my own."

"and all the people said? NO WAY DIANA!" LOL!!!

[marv2]

And in the end..........that's how it has turned out............Diana doesn't need any Supremes and likely won't ever stand on a stage with any of them.

Mary carried on, changed up her shows, and does what she does.

The FLOS carried on with their shows and do their own thing.

Barbara has made a comment or two; Flo watches down perhaps.........

And they've all pretty much lived happily ever after, no ones throwing water, no ones beating up cadets, everyone's voice is holding up better than Adele's and Whitney's and Dionne's and Aretha's; we've had no ends or trips likes Michael's and Whitney's.

Supremes fans have much to be thankful for?

Or still unhappy???

And Carlo, you too, were very funny; I loved you for that.

Well if she never stands on stage with any of them, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in particular while she still has the chance, then she can forget ever seeing the big bucks and the national attention again until she dies. That's the facts.

[marv2]

I find it interesting that in the past Diana said that she doesn't look back; is always moving forward but try as hard as she might she has never escaped the long shadow that was The Supremes. I always hated it when she would do her Supremes-medley in concert as a toss-off. But now she is doing those songs in full versions these days. But, I agree with you skooldem1 that she flourished and all the bad press from 10-12 years ago no longer holds up. She's touring, getting rave reviews and seems quite happy.

To be honest 11 years ago I wanted the reunion but now after seeing Diana solo many times and Mary solo many times I no longer care if they ever stand together again. They both have gifts to share with those who love them.

It's time to put the RTL-tour to rest.

I don't care so much about a reunion for myself personally. I would like them to reunite for many other people that want it. Also, if it is not done right like RTL, I would never want Mary or Cindy to reunite with her.

[marv2]

Much to the dismay of some, Diana's career flourished after that tour. Many honors were in store, her previous work being re-released, a new studio album that was her highest charted album in 20 years, sold out shows across the globe. High profile TV appearances. No need for her to look back. That's for fans stuck in a time warp. She should just keep it moving and do what makes her happy until she retires. If she decides she wants to share her stage with Mary and Cindy that's up to her. However, it is so not necessary.

Didn't she have a nervous breakdown or something after that tour was cancelled? I know she was having a drug and alcohol problem which led to stints in rehab. Later on she went back to touring solo.

[skooldem1]

Well if she never stands on stage with any of them, Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong in particular while she still has the chance, then she can forget ever seeing the big bucks and the national attention again until she dies. That's the facts.

You have got to be kidding right? You switched the names. You have it backwords. If Mary ever wants to make the big bucks and not be a special guest on someone elses show, or tour as part of a golden oldie motortown review with 15 other acts on the bill, or performing to a crowd of 150 people, she better start acting right. Otherwise she will never again have national attention- unless of course she talks about Diane. LoL.

[skooldem1]

Didn't she have a nervous breakdown or something after that tour was cancelled? I know she was having a drug and alcohol problem which led to stints in rehab. Later on she went back to touring solo.

Yes she did. Thank God she didnt accidently kill anyone.

[marv2]

You don't know how many times sister Diane helped Mary out. You only know about the one time Mary admitted to. I'd also have to say that you don't know what the terms/amount/and payback plan were. All you and I both know is Diana helped Mary out in her time of need. She came to Diana for help.

You don't either and t he ONLY reason we know about that one time back in 1981 is because Mary wrote about it in her book! I don't know what the terms were and it is none of my business. I do know that it was not a gift! It was a loan that Mary paid back with interest within a year. How much interest she paid on the $30,000 I don't know. I know that Diane never disputed that which was in Mary's book and also did not characterize it as that during the Barbara Walters interview. How come?

[marv2]

Yes she did. Thank God she didnt accidently kill anyone.

You know, you see this what I have been saying . You are making an under the table jab or joke about the death of child. Mary Wilson's child that died in the accident. This is why I have no respect for many hardcored Diana Ross fans. It is like Smark said. Almost exactly like how he describe.

[skooldem1]

You know, you see this what I have been saying . You are making an under the table jab or joke about the death of child. Mary Wilson's child that died in the accident. This is why I have no respect for many hardcored Diana Ross fans. It is like Smark said. Almost exactly like how he describe.

Dude you are projecting. I was commenting on Diana's "breakdown" and stint in rehab for drunk driving. Hence my comment, "thank God she didn't accidently kill anyone".

[jobeterob]

I take it we still have ONE unhappy Supremes fan.

And the rest are basically all fine.

[marv2]

Dude you are projecting. I was commenting on Diana's "breakdown" and stint in rehab for drunk driving. Hence my comment, "thank God she didn't accidently kill anyone".

No I am telling the truth because I have seen this before where some of Diana Ross fans in defense of her and when they run out of responses they somtimes make jokes about the accident that Mary Wilson had in which her son was killed. It's more than crossing the line. You know what you wrote and I know what you meant. Do you find the accidental death of a child funny or smirk worthy?

[marv2]

I remember around this time, on the Tom Joyner Morning show, they were all joking on Mary. Tom said "Diana.....PLEASE call her". As if to say, please talk to this woman because she is getting on not only your nerves, but everyones nerves. So just call her. LMAO. His whole crew started laughing.

Yeah well the morning Howard Stern had Mary on he joked just as much if not more about Diana.

[marv2]

I take it we still have ONE unhappy Supremes fan.

And the rest are basically all fine.

I don't why Skool Dem is so unhappy. It is only the facts. No one is lying as far as I've seen or know.

[floyjoy678]

It reminds me of time when a close friend/co-worker of mine went to everyone on the job and blasted me after I got a promotion and he didn't, even though I worked twice as hard and did things even when I wasn't up for it while every now and then I would lie to the bosses and give him "credit" just because I felt bad. You think I wanted to work/see him again after he said bad and vicious things about me to practically everyone in our office? It's embarrassing [[Thankfully he was fired shortly after). I love all the Supremes but 10 years later I've jumped from Mary's side to Diana's side in the RTL situation.

[skooldem1]

Like I said I was responding to your question/comment regarding alcohol, drug abuse and rehab. I reject what you say because I know what I was responding to and what I meant.

[skooldem1]

I don't why Skool Dem is so unhappy. It is only the facts. No is lying as far as I've seen or know.

Oh come on Marv. I am as happy as can be. Its Friday, just got paid, getting my car out of the shop. Nothing to be unhappy about. Why are you so unhappy and why do you refuse to move past the year 2000? Serious question.

[skooldem1]

Marv- another serious question. You don't think this going back and forth between us is childish? Sometimes I do it to make a point [[in general, not just with you). At any point during these debates, does it ever occur to you that your comments bordline on the insane also?

[jobeterob]

What does "no is lying mean?"

Did a word get missed in exasperation?

Who is lying? That word is about laying down. Was it meant to be "lieing" as in tale telling?

[marv2]

What does "no is lying mean?"

Did a word get missed in exasperation?

Who is lying? That word is about laying down. Was it meant to be "lieing" as in tale telling?

I meant to write "No one is lying as far as I've seen or know."


No need for you to go through the weekend in a strain. hehehehehehe!

[thaperson]

The loan story was in SUPREME FAITH because Mary had gotten a ton of crticism for not putting it in DREAMGIRL. The original co-writer of DREAMGIRL even quit the project because Mary wouldn't put the loan story in.

Now I didn't agree with the way Diana handled the tour, but for Mary to call Lynda and Scherrie fake Supremes was disgraceful. You can be mad at them for what they did, but they were Supremes just as much as Barbara, Flo, Jean and the rest of them. And no, those were not solely Diana's songs. But what part does Mary have in the ones the Andates sang back-up on? Why should she get to claim them? She contributed nothing to them. They're not hers.

Let's get real. Five million for someone who didn't sing on half the hits and whose career was barren for almost fifteen years at that point? It was never going to happen. Mary should have stepped back and seriously thought about it. The gig would have gotten tons of publicity and jumpstarted her career had she taken it. But she went the obligatory route. Caused a brief media blitz for a month or two, only to have it all fade way. And what did she gain? As Taraborelli said, she is foolish when it comes to business decisions.

[jobeterob]

She could have paid off the mortgage on the house she and her daughter live in too.

[luke]

Marv you keep telling the truth about the death of Mary's son-it's disgusting what some Ross fans say. Show me where Mary ever called SP and LL fake supremes--quote it, document it-she NEVER said that. Marys first book went up to 1970. She put it chronologically in her second book where it belonged. And Im sure there is much more to that person quitting -it makes no sense as the loan happened way after 1970. If all the haters can dig up is drama over a 30, 000 loan paid back WITH interest they are quite desperate. If these people ever objectively mentioned some of Diana's behavior along with criticisms of Mary, they would seem more sane. Just why couldnt Diana step back a bit and think - gee maybe Mary does deserve more and I can imagine she might feel devalued and I could really help Cindy out here...but no --more ego.

[dianesfan_1965]

RTL was in some people's minds was bigger than "the holacust" or "7-11".