The Supremes with Marlene Barrow!

[Jimi LaLumia]

Michael Jackson did quite alright for a long while....lol..Gordy must still be flipping to this very day!!!..#1 album ever!!!

[marv2]

Michael Jackson did quite alright for a long while....lol..Gordy must still be flipping to this very day!!!..#1 album ever!!!

I believe Berry was really proud of Michael Jackson. He was one of the few that transcended record labels, companies etc.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and Motown made a ton $$$$$$ on back catalog sales when the MJ Epic machine kicked into gear...

[Roberta75]

Michael Jackson did quite alright for a long while....lol..Gordy must still be flipping to this very day!!!..#1 album ever!!!

I very much doubt that Berry Gordy is sitting around today thinking about the money he lost when MJ went to Epic and Sony.

[marv2]

and Motown made a ton $$$$$$ on back catalog sales when the MJ Epic machine kicked into gear...

I KNOW that's right!!!!

[rod_rick]

Hey Marv
I think the issue of Mary and indy not being on Love Child was raised when Mary brought her lawsuit against Motown in the late 77 78. If I'm not mistaken it was published in Soul magazine. I have the issue when i get sometime I will double check.

[jobeterob]

I don't remember when the information on Love Child first came out but I know I didn't really believe it. Now it's so very clear that it isn't any Supremes. But the Someday We'll Be Together recording is remarkable to think we bought it; I remember I thought Mary was doing the Johnny Bristol lines...........well, she has kind of a deep voice!

[marv2]

Hey Marv
I think the issue of Mary and indy not being on Love Child was raised when Mary brought her lawsuit against Motown in the late 77 78. If I'm not mistaken it was published in Soul magazine. I have the issue when i get sometime I will double check.

Rod_rick, you are exactly right! I was going to mention that during the lawsuit brought by Marko A. Turk in 1977 on behalf of Mary Wilson, in the complaint she alledged that Motown had illegally [[according to her contract) replaced her on Supremes recordings [[citing "Love Child" and "Someday We'll Be Together"). The main thrust of the complaint was that Mary was underage when she signed with Motown in 1961 and her Mom could neither read or write at the time! However, the issue over Mary and Cindy not being on Love Child was not known to the general public until it was written about in "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme". I know Soul magazine was popular among it's niche market, the book was a general market publication and that is when most heard of this.

[marv2]

I don't remember when the information on Love Child first came out but I know I didn't really believe it. Now it's so very clear that it isn't any Supremes. But the Someday We'll Be Together recording is remarkable to think we bought it; I remember I thought Mary was doing the Johnny Bristol lines...........well, she has kind of a deep voice!

"Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" was released in October 1986, 18 years after "Love Child" was released. No one was talking about "Love Child" much at all during that 18 year span! LOL!!!

[luke]

And relatedly I told Cindy personally at the Waldorf in 1968 that I loved the fact that she and Mary were more audible on No Matter Waht Sign You Are!! She smiled and said thank you. Shows how much the general public knew!!

[jobeterob]

I bet the Supremes themselves either just believed they were on most of the songs or never even knew it was an issue. But most likely they were never told in the early songs or did not realize other people were singing with them.

Until today, I never realized how little Flo was on Where Did Our Love Go. I'm gathering from Rod they just repeated what they recorded again and again.

All very interesting.

[Jimi LaLumia]

please,really?..
of course they knew what they were and weren't on,who was or wasn't hitting what notes,what their own voices sound like
...do you think they'd tell the fans at the time, or even after that"the record says the Supremes but I'm not really singing on it"...
this explains the frustration that Mary Wilson must have felt and the crisis of confidence she suffered at one time, the doubt that was planted about her singing ability,which led to her actions at Motown:25 and the Dreamgirls book, which revealed at least some of the truth..I now doubt that the full truth will ever be revealed,which is probably just as well, as insiders advise us not to ask who is actualy singing on records like YCHL, which at that time was supposedly just the three...

[rod_rick]

I bet the Supremes themselves either just believed they were on most of the songs or never even knew it was an issue. But most likely they were never told in the early songs or did not realize other people were singing with them.

Until today, I never realized how little Flo was on Where Did Our Love Go. I'm gathering from Rod they just repeated what they recorded again and again.

All very interesting.

Hey Rob
That's on that singing machine Motown kareoke cd. Because of the way some of the songs were recorded back then there were a lot of bleeding into other microphones. On that same cd, there are no background vocals for Baby Love, all the vocals are on one version then there is just an instrumental track with no vocals at all. Mary and Florence are singing their baby baby where did our love go form start to finish on the original track.

[luke]

Duh, yes I know. Cindy had to play dumb and the public never knew-my point.

[marv2]

And relatedly I told Cindy personally at the Waldorf in 1968 that I loved the fact that she and Mary were more audible on No Matter Waht Sign You Are!! She smiled and said thank you. Shows how much the general public knew!!

Uh huh! See what I am saying? I don't even think the artist remember all the recordings they did and when they did them! It was work!

[marv2]

Duh, yes I know. Cindy had to play dumb and the public never knew-my point.

She knew one thing..........she had to go out there and sell it!

[johnjeb]

I don't remember when the information on Love Child first came out but I know I didn't really believe it. Now it's so very clear that it isn't any Supremes. But the Someday We'll Be Together recording is remarkable to think we bought it; I remember I thought Mary was doing the Johnny Bristol lines...........well, she has kind of a deep voice!

jobeterob, I just assumed it was Mary, also. Never gave it much thought at the time. I did see them lipsynch to "Someday..." on Hollywood Palace and Mary visibly lipsynchs to Johnny Birstols's vocals, although she doesn't look too pleased. I guess that was good enough for me - I figured it was Mary.

[detmotownguy]

Nah,nah, nah, nah. There was never any shock over who was on "Love Child" in 1968 or in all the years following the release of that record. We didn't know a thing about it until late 1986 when Mary Wilson published her autobiography , "Dreamgirl, My Life As A Supreme" because that was the first time the subject was ever talked about publicly by anyone from Motown. It is still not a shock to most people because they just listen to it for what it is....music. Most people still assume that it is the Supremes [[i.e. Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong) singing in the background. I think I recall Deke Richards, one of the writers and producers of the song saying here that even he assumed it was Mary and Cindy on the record as he always made a point to use them on any productions he was involved in for the Supremes.

I guess I just look at it this way. The Andantes, just like the Funk Brothers , the Originals or whomever they used in the studio to give a record a certain sound that the producer was after, they just went with it. The comment about the Andantes even being on the song "Run, Run, Run" along with Florence, Mary ,Diana and a host of others means nothing. Anyone listening to the song know that those gruff, masculine voices in the background could not be coming from the Supremes. They were used to give the song a certain effect. That's what the Andantes were used for at Motown....instrumentation!

Almost anyone that was at Motown during the early years will tell you that they all chipped in and helped out on each others records. That's why you have the Supremes as back up on records by Mary Wells, Marvin Gaye, Smokey & the Miracles among others. I loved Marvin Gayes' "Can I Get A Witness" on which you can clearly hear Florence Ballard over and above the male backing voices. You have Mary Wilson singing on the Miracles "Mickey's Monkey" and just listen to Marvin's "Wonderful One" and the ladies you hear are Florence, Diane and Mary doing the backgrounds.

I guess my point is, what is the big deal? Maybe I am missing something?

Hi Marv:
Good explanation, "They were used to give the song a certain effect. That's what the Andantes were used for at Motown....instrumentation"!

[marv2]

Hi Marv:
Good explanation, "They were used to give the song a certain effect. That's what the Andantes were used for at Motown....instrumentation"!

Thanks Detmotownguy. I doubt the Andantes would argue that summation either. I am sure they are proud of their work.

[franjoy56]

What tracks did Marlene record in the studio in Flo's place besides You Can't Hurry Love
and the infamous tale of My World is empty without you, I don't believe Marlene's image would have stood up as a permanenet fill in but Cindy definetly had the look and was the perfect choice. And yes Flo, put up with a lot of mess, and it is a wonder she was able to hang in their as long as she did, but on stage she was always on from what i'v seen. especially with the new Ed Sullivan show and other supremes clips from the 60's

Marlene Barrow subbed for Flo in early 1966 when Florence was sick. I don't think Berry believed she was sick so Marlene was sent out. This picture is most likely from the first time Marlene subbed for Florence when they performed for a private party at a country club in Detroit. After that, I believe Diana, Mary and Marlene did a series of one nighters and an engagement at Blinstrub's in Boston. Berry was going to keep Marlene on for the Copa engagement to teach Florence a lesson, but Jules Podell was adamant that Florence be there.

Marlene also subbed for Florence in several recording sessions and then on tour again in early 1967 when the troubles with Florence got really serious.