Cindy Birdsong on RTL and Motown 25

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

And it's not as though the whole tour was cancelled; I believe almost half of the dates were played.

Sure almost half the dates were fulfilled ............playing to less than half filled venues!

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh well.........there you go. Still good that Jay Leno's making fun of RTL can still have you laughing out loud 11 years later.

If i can find the tape of him showing Diana onstage singing and then cuts to a completely empty stadium and states something like " If you are looking for something peaceful and quiet to do this weekend where you can be alone, try attending the Diana Ross & the Supremes Return to Love concert! hehehehehehehe!

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Sure almost half the dates were fulfilled ............playing to less than half filled venues!

A bit like the Mary Wilson/Chillites UK tour earlier this year? Happens to everyone at some point in their career. No biggie at the end of the day. Mary and Diana are both survivors.

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

If i can find the tape of him showing Diana onstage singing and then cuts to a completely empty stadium and states something like " If you are looking for something peaceful and quiet to do this weekend where you can be alone, try attending the Diana Ross & the Supremes Return to Love concert! hehehehehehehe!

Well isn't Jay hysterically funny? I'm not sure I could take all that hilarious fun without bursting. Maybe you could post some clips so we could all LOL with you.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

A bit like the Mary Wilson/Chillites UK tour earlier this year? Happens to everyone at some point in their career. No biggie at the end of the day. Mary and Diana are both survivors.

I don't know anything about that because I live in America and was living here when we were NOT in a recession back in 2000 when the "Return to Love Tour" was announced! Mary must have been doing a decent amount of business because her tour DID NOT get cancelled and she will back over there later this year for something like 40 more dates! Oh yeah. She is the Supreme Survivor!

**floyjoy678** · 09-14-2011, 02:59 PM

I remember when Leno poked fun at the tour and it was pretty funny. The one that sticks out in my mind was when they showed Diana singing "Love Child" then it showed "Lynda" and "Scherrie" at their microphones with their hands tied behind their backs and duct tape over their mouths.

RossHolloway · 09-14-2011, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh well.........there you go. Still good that Jay Leno's making fun of RTL can still have you laughing out loud 11 years later.

You do know that the more you feed the trolls the longer they stick around. Kinda like a stray cat. Don't feed them and eventually they'll leave...

dianesfan_1965 · 09-14-2011, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh yes it's right up there with Enron, Iran Contra, the Federal Government's response to Hurricane Katriana and Watergate.

You left out Grace Kelly winning the Oscar of Judy Garland.

dianesfan_1965 · 09-14-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Sure almost half the dates were fulfilled ............playing to less than half filled venues!

hehehehehehehehe lol YO MOMMA!

dianesfan_1965 · 09-14-2011, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

" If you are looking for something peaceful and quiet to do this weekend where you can be alone, try attending the Diana Ross & the Supremes Return to Love concert! hehehehehehehe!

You should have that printed on T-Shirts.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by floyjoy678

I remember when Leno poked fun at the tour and it was pretty funny. The one that sticks out in my mind was when they showed Diana singing "Love Child" then it showed "Lynda" and "Scherrie" at their microphones with their hands tied behind their backs and duct tape over their mouths.

I missed that one, hehehehehehe!

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 03:46 PM

I don't think any of it is, funny, I think it's disappointing, considering in the 60's the Beatles were the most successful recording group of that era, but The Supremes were the most successful AMERICAN recording group of that era,and The Beatles legacy has been handled a bit more gracefully by all parties concerned than that of The Supremes!..[[The Leno bit with the girls gagged and bound is kind of funny, though,hate to admit it,...lol)

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I don't think any of it is, funny, I think it's disappointing, considering in the 60's the Beatles were the most successful recording group of that era, but The Supremes were the most successful AMERICAN recording group of that era,and The Beatles legacy has been handled a bit more gracefully by all parties concerned than that of The Supremes!..[[The Leno bit with the girls gagged and bound is kind of funny, though,hate to admit it,...lol)

The Beatles battled for years. Lennon went to his grave hating McCartney and vice versa. Male in group fighting for the most part gets a free pass. Female groups fighting are labeled as bitches. Such a horrible double standard.

dianesfan_1965 · 09-14-2011, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by roberta75

the beatles battled for years. Lennon went to his grave hating mccartney and vice versa. Male in group fighting for the most part gets a free pass. Female groups fighting are labeled as bitches. Such a horrible double standard.

lol! Yo momma!

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 04:18 PM

no one denies that they fought;
I'm talking from the fan perspective, which is what most of us here are/were,and from the fan perspective, Beatle fans remain a concern in 2011 with the individuals[[McCartney, Ringo, the widows of Lennon and Harrison)involved, and there's an on going respect and communication with Beatles fans in 2011, even though THE BEATLES broke up before THE SUPREMES did...no one introduced the females fighting part of the conversation,and those of you who only see this as about fighting females, all I can say is..MOVE ON!!!..lol

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

no one denies that they fought;
I'm talking from the fan perspective, which is what most of us here are/were,and from the fan perspective, Beatle fans remain a concern in 2011 with the individuals[[McCartney, Ringo, the widows of Lennon and Harrison)involved, and there's an on going respect and communication with Beatles fans in 2011, even though THE BEATLES broke up before THE SUPREMES did...no one introduced the females fighting part of the conversation,and those of you who only see this as about fighting females, all I can say is..MOVE ON!!!..lol

You go Jimi! LOL!!!!

**jillfoster** · 09-14-2011, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

The Beatles battled for years. Lennon went to his grave hating McCartney and vice versa. Male in group fighting for the most part gets a free pass. Female groups fighting are labeled as bitches. Such a horrible double standard.

I don't see it as a double standard. the public saw that as artistic temperament because the Beatles had much more substance to their talent, such as playing of musical instruments, production, songwriting... the Supremes will never get that respect in the music business because they are just seen as singing puppets which didn't even choose thier own MATERIAL. The dresses and wigs are about the only thing they can lay claim to. Sad but true.

RossHolloway · 09-14-2011, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

I don't see it as a double standard. the public saw that as artistic temperament because the Beatles had much more substance to their talent, such as playing of musical instruments, production, songwriting... the Supremes will never get that respect in the music business because they are just seen as singing puppets which didn't even choose thier own MATERIAL. The dresses and wigs are about the only thing they can lay claim to. Sad but true.

The Supreme's were far from puppets. There are many, many great artist that never wrote songs or played instruments, just like there are many, many great musicians who never sang on the recording that they may have played on or even wrote. I don't think Elvis wrote or played instruments on any of his recordings. He's highly respected and loved. Don't think Barbara Streisand did either. How many songs did Billie Holliday or Ella Fitzgerald write or play instruments on? As far as I know, I don't think that Michael Jackson ever played an instrument on his recordings or wrote all his hits, but you'd be hard pressed to say that his contribution to music and entertainment isn't as great, if not greater than that of the Beatles. If playing instruments, production and songwriting is the standard by which to judge greatness, then Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles tops them all, they did all that and did it without the benefit of sight. The Beatles are the Beatles, the Supremes are the Supremes. Apples and Oranges.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 06:16 PM

but The Supremes do have that respect; they just never do anything with it,and it lays there, wasted..such a shame

**captainjames** · 09-14-2011, 06:46 PM

Didn't Diana front some of her own money to try and get Mary's salary up to what she was asking ? Didn't this tour discussion start with Diana and company wanting to get all the Supremes involved ? Wasn't Mary giving a deadline to respond to the offer and she ignored the final deadline ? Didn't Diana call Berry Gordy wanting to call the whole thing off and he told her to do what makes her happy ? If memory serves me right there have been other tours canceled like this The Monkeys', Van Halen, heck even Labelle didn't last long.

As far as Diana having a setback, there were a lot of things going on in her life that caused a lot of pain. A lot of personal things. Now as far as history and reputation she will be remember as the Lead Singer of one if not the Top Selling Female group of the 60's and 70's.

I am really kind of shocked though [[yeah maybe I just didn't want to believe it) that it was all about Money. I truly believed Mary when she said she wanted more creativity input.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

Didn't Diana front some of her own money to try and get Mary's salary up to what she was asking ? Didn't this tour discussion start with Diana and company wanting to get all the Supremes involved ? Wasn't Mary giving a deadline to respond to the offer and she ignored the final deadline ? Didn't Diana call Berry Gordy wanting to call the whole thing off and he told her to do what makes her happy ? If memory serves me right there have been other tours canceled like this The Monkeys', Van Halen, heck even Labelle didn't last long.

As far as Diana having a setback, there were a lot of things going on in her life that caused a lot of pain. A lot of personal things. Now as far as history and reputation she will be remember as the Lead Singer of one if not the Top Selling Female group of the 60's and 70's.

I am really kind of shocked though [[yeah maybe I just didn't want to believe it) that it was all about Money. I truly believed Mary when she said she wanted more creativity input.

She also said she didn't have anything at all to do with the negotiations. Berry Gordy sided with Mary and Cindy and thought it would be nuts to try to do a tour without them.

**captainjames** · 09-14-2011, 07:26 PM

Everyone I know that had anything t do with RTL says Diana left the negotiations up to the promotors. I have nothing absolutely nothing from Mr. Gordy saying he sided with Mary or Cindy.

Originally Posted by marv2

She also said she didn't have anything at all to do with the negotiations. Berry Gordy sided with Mary and Cindy and thought it would be nuts to try to do a tour without them.

**captainjames** · 09-14-2011, 07:31 PM

Again~~~~~~~~~we are asked to understand and believe that a man who wanted to pull Diana from the group in 1965/66 and was okay with her singing without Flo/Mary and cindy in the background is now saying you shouldn't do the tour without him....................NAWDA.

**jobeterob** · 09-14-2011, 07:41 PM

Berry thought the whole idea was a bad one and that Diana should just tour on her own..............which is another reason the whole thing is forever gone, never to be resurrected. Berry was right again. It's sad for the fans that is ended on an unhappy note but no different from the disaster that ended the group in 1977 ~ years of infighted, losing money and members and bringing on half a dozen background singers that for the following 40 years called themselves Supremes.

**Koach** · 09-14-2011, 08:14 PM

I'm going to be brave and say this: I enjoy viewing the RTL clips on Youtube and hope that Diana Ross tours with Scherrie and Lynda again... as well as with Joyce. She shouldn't promote it as a Supremes reunion, though. It should be a FLOS tour with her as a special guest performer... or a D.R. tour with the FLOS as the special guests.

**luke** · 09-14-2011, 08:20 PM

Even Scherrie has said she hopes Diana and Mary and Cindy reunite!

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Berry thought the whole idea was a bad one and that Diana should just tour on her own..............which is another reason the whole thing is forever gone, never to be resurrected. Berry was right again. It's sad for the fans that is ended on an unhappy note but no different from the disaster that ended the group in 1977 ~ years of infighted, losing money and members and bringing on half a dozen background singers that for the following 40 years called themselves Supremes.

There was no disaster that happened in 1977. Also, there were not a half dozen background singers calling themselves the Supremes for the last 40 years. Where did you get this information? It is a fact that Berry Gordy wanted to see Mary Wilson, Diana Ross and Cindy Birdsong tour as the Supremes one last time for prosterity purposes.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by luke

Even Scherrie has said she hopes Diana and Mary and Cindy reunite!

She is right as those are the only women that Diana can legitimately reunite with!

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Berry thought the whole idea was a bad one and that Diana should just tour on her own..............which is another reason the whole thing is forever gone, never to be resurrected. Berry was right again. It's sad for the fans that is ended on an unhappy note but no different from the disaster that ended the group in 1977 ~ years of infighted, losing money and members and bringing on half a dozen background singers that for the following 40 years called themselves Supremes.

He did not think it was a bad idea. He thought it was a good one. He just wanted Mary and Cindy to be treated fairly, with dignity and compensated fairly.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by captainjames

Again~~~~~~~~~we are asked to understand and believe that a man who wanted to pull Diana from the group in 1965/66 and was okay with her singing without Flo/Mary and cindy in the background is now saying you shouldn't do the tour without him....................NAWDA.

Because he is smart. No one was very interested in another Diana Ross solo tour and even fewer were interested in Diane touring with Scherrie Payne and Linda Lawrence.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 09:03 PM

and speaking of Scherrie, now that I think of it, money or not, it was rather tacky to have one of the three official Supremes lead singers suddenly relegated to backup status;
do you think Jean Terrell would have done that? I think not..

**captainjames** · 09-15-2011, 12:28 AM

WOW !!!!!!!!!!! so many quotes on what Mr. Gordy said and thought...................can anyone point me to where it was stated or written that he [[Berry Gordy) thought Mary and Cindy should be included or that he agreed with Mary or Cindy. The only thing I remember about this tour was that he thought Diana should do whatever she felt would be fun.

**Penny** · 09-15-2011, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

WOW !!!!!!!!!!! so many quotes on what Mr. Gordy said and thought...................can anyone point me to where it was stated or written that he [[Berry Gordy) thought Mary and Cindy should be included or that he agreed with Mary or Cindy. The only thing I remember about this tour was that he thought Diana should do whatever she felt would be fun.

Captainjames, you must understand that many that post on this site are clairvoyant. They seem to have an uncanny ability to know what people were doing and saying decades ago and can recall these things with great detail. I have noticed this for a while and am hoping that they could use their talents to forward me some winning lottery numbers. I could use the money.

The best to you captain james;
Penny

dianesfan_1965 · 09-15-2011, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Penny

Captainjames, you must understand that many that post on this site are clairvoyant. They seem to have an uncanny ability to know what people were doing and saying decades ago and can recall these things with great detail. I have noticed this for a while and am hoping that they could use their talents to forward me some winning lottery numbers. I could use the money.

The best to you captain james;
Penny

17-4-86-22-76-2

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-15-2011, 12:09 PM

my favorite quote[[which I have IN PRINT!) was from Ross' ex lover Gene Simmons of KISS as a bit of advice;
"Mary Wilson? who's gonna care if she shows up or not?"
see, Gene is an expert at f***ing over former original group members and shoving replacements into KISS,BUt when it came time,years ago, for a KISS reunion, Simmons made SURE that all the right parts were in place..
practise what you preach,Gene!

**motony** · 09-15-2011, 12:12 PM

LOL, very good Jim.

**luke** · 09-15-2011, 12:17 PM

Jean's no fool--she said NO!

**captainjames** · 09-15-2011, 05:18 PM

Penny
Ok, now I understand
Your telling me these people have voices inside their heads.

Originally Posted by Penny

Captainjames, you must understand that many that post on this site are clairvoyant. They seem to have an uncanny ability to know what people were doing and saying decades ago and can recall these things with great detail. I have noticed this for a while and am hoping that they could use their talents to forward me some winning lottery numbers. I could use the money.

The best to you captain james;
Penny

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-15-2011, 05:27 PM

you two should get a room..

dianesfan_1965 · 09-15-2011, 06:21 PM

Even though I wish Mary and Cindy would have been on the tour ... this video always seems pretty wicked to me.

Shame people have to say such nasty things about Diana all the time. They need to get lives.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-15-2011, 06:54 PM

who was saying nasty things about Miss Ross?
on the other hand, if you want every post to sound like a Motown press release,you're in the wrong neck of the woods..[[and yes, that is a fab vid of "Lovelight"..

dianesfan_1965 · 09-15-2011, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

who was saying nasty things about Miss Ross?
on the other hand, if you want every post to sound like a Motown press release,you're in the wrong neck of the woods..[[and yes, that is a fab vid of "Lovelight"..

Look at the postings on You Tube. And you don't need to tell which "neck of the woods" I should be in, dear.

smark21 · 09-15-2011, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

I don't see it as a double standard. the public saw that as artistic temperament because the Beatles had much more substance to their talent, such as playing of musical instruments, production, songwriting... the Supremes will never get that respect in the music business because they are just seen as singing puppets which didn't even choose thier own MATERIAL. The dresses and wigs are about the only thing they can lay claim to. Sad but true.

I agree. And because the Beatles wrote nearly all of their material and were so popular they were also able to gain business control over their songs and albums. So while the various parties fought often bitterly over the years, they also had to work together to keep the money rolling in and they and their business people have a done much better job managing the cataloge. The Supremes never obtained such power.

smark21 · 09-15-2011, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

who was saying nasty things about Miss Ross?
on the other hand, if you want every post to sound like a Motown press release,you're in the wrong neck of the woods..[[and yes, that is a fab vid of "Lovelight"..

A lot of the youtube posted Supremes videos feature lots of disgusting comments about Diana Ross, Mary Wilson and Lynda Lawrence [[and to a lesser extent, the other members of the Supremes). People like Bear, Detroit Lives 313 and TWATWA seemed to spend a lot of time talking trash about a member of a group they supposedly profess to be fans of.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-15-2011, 08:17 PM

I'm only talking about this board, which is more of a controlled envrionment than the wild wild west of youtube..

**jobeterob** · 09-16-2011, 01:55 AM

Some of those Youtube people you mention are regulars on here but they like to forget that or imagine people don't know. Sadly, they dont understand that they are part of the problem and have done much to ensure no reunion of any kind will happen. And they don't understand why they are a huge problem. Mary Wilson has had to ask them to stop but they believe she is talking to someone else.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-16-2011, 09:05 AM

well,that's not good, but those random voices shouldn't have the power to stop a proper reunion, that's just crazy..business is business, and a proper reunion, ONE NIGHT ONLY,would be very big business, pay per view, follow up DVD and CD, etc..
there are random crazies all over the political scene, and I don't notice any politicians stepping down because of it..

**motony** · 09-16-2011, 09:51 AM

for all those that think those Beatles walk on water, they were a garage band that got extremely lucky. As I have said many times the Entertainment business is about 5% talent and 95% luck..being at the right place at the right time.Brian Epstein & George Martin were directly involved in the Beatle success and American rock N roll radio was ready to jump on the next new big thing.I also think the Beatles got ripped off through all the hoopla but with such staggering figures the 4 made alot of money. Go back & listen to how they sounded LIVE[[if you can really hear through all the screaming)The Supremes & any of our Soul stars could "mop" the stage with them, LOL Even they, the Beatles, joked how bad they sounded & were glad the screams drownded them out. I hated those "beatle" records I thought they made much better records as individuals, esp the ones Phil Spector produced and Ringos. To compare the Supremes to the Beatles is jus apples & oranges.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-16-2011, 10:12 AM

the comparison is in terms of popularity, sales, #1s,legacy..
The Beatles were the biggest act of the 60s, and The Supremes were the biggest American act of the 60's, dueling with The Beatles for the #1 spot on Billboard's singles chart on quite a few occassions

dianesfan_1965 · 09-16-2011, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by motony

for all those that think those Beatles walk on water, they were a garage band that got extremely lucky. As I have said many times the Entertainment business is about 5% talent and 95% luck..being at the right place at the right time.Brian Epstein & George Martin were directly involved in the Beatle success and American rock N roll radio was ready to jump on the next new big thing.I also think the Beatles got ripped off through all the hoopla but with such staggering figures the 4 made alot of money. Go back & listen to how they sounded LIVE[[if you can really hear through all the screaming)The Supremes & any of our Soul stars could "mop" the stage with them, LOL Even they, the Beatles, joked how bad they sounded & were glad the screams drownded them out. I hated those "beatle" records I thought they made much better records as individuals, esp the ones Phil Spector produced and Ringos. To compare the Supremes to the Beatles is jus apples & oranges.

Por favor! You say in one breath The Supremes & any of our Soul stars could "mop" the stage with them and then in another To compare the Supremes to the Beatles is jus apples & oranges.

You can't have it both ways.