Cindy Birdsong on RTL and Motown 25

**luke** · 09-11-2011, 09:31 PM

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinholl...-birdsong.html interview from 2009.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-11-2011, 11:58 PM

I spent an afternoon with Cindy in the 80's for a magazine interview, when she was managed by Bernard Jay[[who also managed Divine) and Cindy had a single called "Dancing Room" that she was pushing; delightful, sweet lady, I hope a real reunion happens to bring this history to a proper, once and for all ,finale..Miss Ross has certainly found herself again with this brilliant, never ending 2 years tour she's been on, God Bless her..

**randy_russi** · 09-12-2011, 07:43 AM

It was ashame when she was basically fired [[like Florence) when I thought she, Mary and Scherrie made a great line-up!

**stephanie** · 09-12-2011, 10:45 PM

Cindy was always the odd woman out. She was always there when needed and it seems like she never got a fair shake. I like her a lot and she was a great replacement for Flo especially during the intricate dance routines when they became Diana Ross and the Supremes. Go Cindy.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-13-2011, 12:03 AM

and most hurtfully, on separate occassions, both Ross and Wilson said that "Cindy was never really A Supreme"...real nice

**jobeterob** · 09-13-2011, 02:11 AM

They just said that because effectively, the group was over when Florence left; Berry was just having Diana "bide her time" before leaving.

**jillfoster** · 09-13-2011, 10:36 AM

As much grief as people gave Mary for not taking the offer... the 4 million figure in the article is the one she DID finally take, and then they told her "forget it". But although it seems foolish to US, because none of us make that kind of money.... let's say you were in a business partnership with 2 other people, and you weren't paid with a salary... you were paid a pecentage... 33 percent. Then years and years after youv'e moved on, you are approached to go back to the old partnership, except this time... you are only going to make 10 percent. Would you all go back to your old job for a pay cut? Diana made this comment on 20/20, "I could give her to moon and it wouldn't be enough", which is totally ridiculous... because all Mary wanted was to work under the same terms she did before. Go back to your old job for the same pay.

**marv2** · 09-13-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

As much grief as people gave Mary for not taking the offer... the 4 million figure in the article is the one she DID finally take, and then they told her "forget it". But although it seems foolish to US, because none of us make that kind of money.... let's say you were in a business partnership with 2 other people, and you weren't paid with a salary... you were paid a pecentage... 33 percent. Then years and years after youv'e moved on, you are approached to go back to the old partnership, except this time... you are only going to make 10 percent. Would you all go back to your old job for a pay cut? Diana made this comment on 20/20, "I could give her to moon and it wouldn't be enough", which is totally ridiculous... because all Mary wanted was to work under the same terms she did before. Go back to your old job for the same pay.

When Diane made the comment about "We could give her the moon and it wouldn't be enough"...... it ranked as one of the all time dumbest things she's said publicly and it completely sealed hers and that tours fate! She destroyed it all with that one......

**carlo** · 09-13-2011, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

Would you all go back to your old job for a pay cut? Diana made this comment on 20/20, "I could give her to moon and it wouldn't be enough", which is totally ridiculous... because all Mary wanted was to work under the same terms she did before. Go back to your old job for the same pay.

Good point.

**floyjoy678** · 09-13-2011, 01:06 PM

I think Diana and Mary made the comment of "Cindy not being a real Supreme" due to the fact that the original line-up in their eyes and many fans eyes was the most important one and the three of them had a special bond, Cindy was placed in the group under business circumstances.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-13-2011, 07:14 PM

so I guess from this point of view, Jean Terrell and everyone that followed were never really Supremes either?...Please..the FANS will decide who we recognize as really being Supremes, thank you very much..and to the fans, Cindy Birdsong is REALLY a SUPREME!!!

**skooldem1** · 09-13-2011, 07:46 PM

I get the feeling that to Mary and Diana; Mary, Florence and Diana are Supremes and all others are replacements. Legit Supremes, but replacements none the less. But didn't Diana try to explain it by saying that they all thought that she would be a "temporary" Supreme because they all thought maybe just maybe Florence would straighten up and come back? Could that really have been the plan, but when the lawsuits started flying, everything changed?

**skooldem1** · 09-13-2011, 07:51 PM

I get fuzzy on all these stories. Didn't Cindy come in for a show or two and then Florence resumed her spot? Maybe that was the "temporary", but by all accounts by then Florence and the group were never really the same. So that was when the decision became final that she had to go? In the end Mary and Diana can think what they want about themselves, each other, and the rest of the ladies.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-13-2011, 08:42 PM

and the fans, who bought the records and attended the shows, can and will think what they want: Ross flip flopped like a politician with RTL anyway, because when she needed them to be,Lynda and Scherrie were suddenly as much "Supremes" as anyone else had ever been..
it's make up the rules to suit your purpose and then change the rules when you need them to be changed,which ultimately means that none of the pronouncements of Ross or Wilson are anything other than temporary sound bytes

smark21 · 09-13-2011, 09:04 PM

Would you consider Lynda Lawrence a real Supreme?

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-13-2011, 09:08 PM

for the period of time that she was in the group, she didn't have a sign that said 'space filler' hanging around her neck when she was on stage;
and during RTL, Miss Ross annointed her as a Supreme, now didn't she?

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-13-2011, 09:11 PM

and if Lynda and all the 70's girls were 'fill ins', who were they filling in for? when they were performing songs that were chart hits in the 70's that they had recorded, were those hits actually the property of Ballard and Ross? I don't think so..

**captainjames** · 09-14-2011, 12:11 AM

I remember during this mess that Mary said it WASN”T about the money and now all I hear is that it WAS about the money. All I can say is I wish Cindy would had done her own negotiations. There were also comments made on national TV about who was more of a Supreme………………….come on, for real though? How do you position yourself higher than any other group member? There were a lot of egos flying during this time. The only true statement that you can make regarding Scherrie, Lynda, Jean, Susaye, and Cindy is that they were not ORIGINAL Supremes but they were Supremes.

Also, I do believe Mary and Diana thought in their hearts and minds that Flo would one day return but Berry Gordy had other plans. In my opinion I think this was his way to keep them moving and to shut up. However, temporary is a long stretch because remember Cindy quit the Bluebells and there was no turning back to them.

Last, I saw RTL and it was one of the best Original lead Supreme member and two replacement members Supremes [[LOL) that I have ever seen. This was a class act show. There were a couple times that I thought about Flo but that was it. There were other reasons surrounding why this show had to terminate and it had to do with what was going on behind the scenes and not because Mary and Cindy were not there.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 12:21 AM

well, all I know is that I didn't buy a ticket or support the tour BECAUSE Mary and Cindy were not there, and the same for true for all the dates where tickets sales were poor and everything was falling apart;
even if Ross/Wilson/Birdsong had done a one night only/pay per view type event with a DVD and 'live' CD that followed,all three of them would have benefited greatly long after the show/tour had concluded

**floyjoy678** · 09-14-2011, 02:41 AM

All I am implying is that maybe in Diana and Mary's head the Supremes are Diana, Mary and Florence. That how it is to me. Dont get me wrong I loved Cindy and thought she was a perfect replacement for Flo but after Florence left the group it was no longer the Supremes, it was Diana and two backup singers and I'm glad that both Diana and Mary recognize that.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 05:52 AM

I hear you, but in reality, by the middle of 1965 and thereafter it was ALREADY Diana and two backup singers; that's why Flo's situation turned out the way it did

**rod_rick** · 09-14-2011, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by captainjames

I remember during this mess that Mary said it WASN”T about the money and now all I hear is that it WAS about the money. All I can say is I wish Cindy would had done her own negotiations. There were also comments made on national TV about who was more of a Supreme………………….come on, for real though? How do you position yourself higher than any other group member? There were a lot of egos flying during this time. The only true statement that you can make regarding Scherrie, Lynda, Jean, Susaye, and Cindy is that they were not ORIGINAL Supremes but they were Supremes.

Also, I do believe Mary and Diana thought in their hearts and minds that Flo would one day return but Berry Gordy had other plans. In my opinion I think this was his way to keep them moving and to shut up. However, temporary is a long stretch because remember Cindy quit the Bluebells and there was no turning back to them.

Last, I saw RTL and it was one of the best Original lead Supreme member and two replacement members Supremes [[LOL) that I have ever seen. This was a class act show. There were a couple times that I thought about Flo but that was it. There were other reasons surrounding why this show had to terminate and it had to do with what was going on behind the scenes and not because Mary and Cindy were not there.

After seeing RTL [[on tape) there was something missing, that only Mary & Cindy could have brought [[imo). I've seen the FLos, Mary and Diana do their live shows, but it's something about the dynamics of DMC on stage that would have made RTL a total hit. Scherrie and Lynda are great performers, but the closet thing to the original is DMC. It would be nice to see them do a 1 time performance, but a tour, NO WAY.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 08:50 AM

that's what I'm saying, a tour would have been too much, but a one night, pay per view event followed by deluxe CD/DVD would have made everyone happy and DMC a bit more wealthy and better positioned for whatever was next

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 09:06 AM

RTL was 11 years ago. Diana, Mary, Cindy, Lynda and Scherrie have all moved on. What a pity the fans can't.

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I hear you, but in reality, by the middle of 1965 and thereafter it was ALREADY Diana and two backup singers; that's why Flo's situation turned out the way it did

"Flo's situation" Whatever do you mean?

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I hear you, but in reality, by the middle of 1965 and thereafter it was ALREADY Diana and two backup singers; that's why Flo's situation turned out the way it did

Yes that is what happened pretty much.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

well, all I know is that I didn't buy a ticket or support the tour BECAUSE Mary and Cindy were not there, and the same for true for all the dates where tickets sales were poor and everything was falling apart;
even if Ross/Wilson/Birdsong had done a one night only/pay per view type event with a DVD and 'live' CD that followed,all three of them would have benefited greatly long after the show/tour had concluded

Same for me. By the time that concert reached Long Island, it had been cancelled for Jones Beach due to a lack of ticket sales. I cannot remember a show ever being cancelled there because of no interest.

RossHolloway · 09-14-2011, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

RTL was 11 years ago. Diana, Mary, Cindy, Lynda and Scherrie have all moved on. What a pity the fans can't.

*THIS* I think it's because some people have no life outside of this message board.

**marybrewster** · 09-14-2011, 12:40 PM

Oh boy. Back to RTL.

Concerts get cancelled all the time, due to low ticket sales.

Lady Ga-Ga

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...sales-20091002

Kelly Clarkson

http://www.realityblurred.com/realit...tour_cancelled

Diddy

http://www.blackmediascoop.com/2011/...-to-low-sales/

X-Tina

http://www.popeater.com/2010/05/25/c...s-summer-tour/

Idol

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/rea...ates-canceled/

Babs

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage304284/pg1

Rihanna

http://entertainment.oneindia.in/mus...1-aid0062.html

So, it's not that all uncommon.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 09-14-2011, 12:53 PM

oh, please...move on?...Sports fans still discuss and debate moments in sports history from decades ago,and real music FANS are just as passionate about this genre as sports fans are about their's,,and this WAS a major moment in Motown history,as THE SUPREMES was Gordy's Motown flagship, as they say...
so if you don't want to discuss it, you can move on,as if this debacle never happened...it DID happen,and obviously sent Ross into a funk for quite a while..and it will most likely continue to be discussed..and you'll just have to get over it!...lol

**motony** · 09-14-2011, 01:05 PM

I saw the RTL in Tampa with about 8,000 others & it was great.Ofcourse it would have been greater if Mary & Cindy had been there. It was an EXPENSIVE show to produce. They sure could have done without the dancers & other hangers on to save money BUT Diana, Scherrie & Lynda were nothing less then sensational.I still think Mary & Cindy should have done it.They may never have that chance again.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

oh, please...move on?...Sports fans still discuss and debate moments in sports history from decades ago,and real music FANS are just as passionate about this genre as sports fans are about their's,,and this WAS a major moment in Motown history,as THE SUPREMES was Gordy's Motown flagship, as they say...
so if you don't want to discuss it, you can move on,as if this debacle never happened...it DID happen,and obviously sent Ross into a funk for quite a while..and it will most likely continue to be discussed..and you'll just have to get over it!...lol

Jimi, it is my understanding that whenever you touch upon a subject that someone doesn't like too much, you are to move on. Let it go. Get over it. I personally do not believe in that. Move on? To where? RTL was one of the biggest Motown related stories of the last 20 years!

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 01:08 PM

Concerts may get cancelled routinely, but whole tours? Tours that were super well publicized for months? I don't think so!

**jillfoster** · 09-14-2011, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

oh, please...move on?...Sports fans still discuss and debate moments in sports history from decades ago,and real music FANS are just as passionate about this genre as sports fans are about their's,,and this WAS a major moment in Motown history,as THE SUPREMES was Gordy's Motown flagship, as they say...
so if you don't want to discuss it, you can move on,as if this debacle never happened...it DID happen,and obviously sent Ross into a funk for quite a while..and it will most likely continue to be discussed..and you'll just have to get over it!...lol

Amen to that! Everyone who want to move on, just want to pretend it didn't happen, and they also want to pretend that Mary didn't have the power to destroy that tour, which she did. simple as that. Mary herself said she didn't feel she destroyes that tour, but I'm here to tell you she DID. Reviews about Diana sounding hoarse and forgetting her lyrics didn't help matters, either. People aren't going to spend 100$ of their hard earned money to see that kind of thing.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by motony

I saw the RTL in Tampa with about 8,000 others & it was great.Ofcourse it would have been greater if Mary & Cindy had been there. It was an EXPENSIVE show to produce. They sure could have done without the dancers & other hangers on to save money BUT Diana, Scherrie & Lynda were nothing less then sensational.I still think Mary & Cindy should have done it.They may never have that chance again.

I read where they were only able to sell 3,000 tickets in Columbus, Ohio.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 01:14 PM

It got so bad that Jay Leno joked and ridiculed the Return to Love Tour almost nightly on the Tonight Show.

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

It got so bad that Jay Leno joked and ridiculed the Return to Love Tour almost nightly on the Tonight Show.

Oh you must have loved that.

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by marybrewster

Oh boy. Back to RTL.

Concerts get cancelled all the time, due to low ticket sales.

Lady Ga-Ga

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...sales-20091002

Kelly Clarkson

http://www.realityblurred.com/realit...tour_cancelled

Diddy

http://www.blackmediascoop.com/2011/...-to-low-sales/

X-Tina

http://www.popeater.com/2010/05/25/c...s-summer-tour/

Idol

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/rea...ates-canceled/

Babs

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage304284/pg1

Rihanna

http://entertainment.oneindia.in/mus...1-aid0062.html

So, it's not that all uncommon.

Exactly marybrewster. And it's not the end of the world contrary to what a few Supremes fans think.

dianesfan_1965 · 09-14-2011, 01:38 PM

RTL was a national disgrace!

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by dianesfan_1965

RTL was a national disgrace!

Oh yes it's right up there with Enron, Iran Contra, the Federal Government's response to Hurricane Katriana and Watergate.

**marybrewster** · 09-14-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by roberta75

oh yes it's right up there with enron, iran contra, the federal government's response to hurricane katriana and watergate.

lol.

123456789

RossHolloway · 09-14-2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh yes it's right up there with Enron, Iran Contra, the Federal Government's response to Hurricane Katriana and Watergate.

You do know that some people just have nothing else to live for and so reliving an event from 10 years ago is all they can cling to I guess. Some how I seriously doubt that Diana, Mary, Cindy, Lynda or any other Supreme gives RTL even a passing thought in 2011...

**marybrewster** · 09-14-2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Exactly marybrewster. And it's not the end of the world contrary to what a few Supremes fans think.

And it's not as though the whole tour was cancelled; I believe almost half of the dates were played.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh you must have loved that.

The part I really loved is when he took his cameras around Burbank and asked everyone from Truck drivers, Frat guys to overweight matrons to try out for the Supremes tour! LOL! He had them dress up as potential Supremes and sing "Baby Love" LOL!!!!!

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

The part I really loved is when he took his cameras around Burbank and asked everyone from Truck drivers, Frat guys to overweight matrons to try out for the Supremes tour! LOL! He had them dress up as potential Supremes and sing "Baby Love" LOL!!!!!

Oh my goodness that is too funny. LOL

Bet you wished you could have been one of the truck drivers or overweight matrons. LOL

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

Amen to that! Everyone who want to move on, just want to pretend it didn't happen, and they also want to pretend that Mary didn't have the power to destroy that tour, which she did. simple as that. Mary herself said she didn't feel she destroyes that tour, but I'm here to tell you she DID. Reviews about Diana sounding hoarse and forgetting her lyrics didn't help matters, either. People aren't going to spend 100$ of their hard earned money to see that kind of thing.

Oh she crushed that tour! But it should have never went out to begin with once they could not reach an agreement with Mary and Cindy Birdsong. No one other than die-hard Diana Ross fans were really interested in seeing it. They couldn't even give away enough tickets in Connecticut or Long Island to keep it from being cancelled.

**Roberta75** · 09-14-2011, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by RossHolloway

You do know that some people just have nothing else to live for and so reliving an event from 10 years ago is all they can cling to I guess. Some how I seriously doubt that Diana, Mary, Cindy, Lynda or any other Supreme gives RTL even a passing thought in 2011...

Exactly RossHolloway.

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Oh my goodness that is too funny. LOL

Bet you wished you could have been one of the truck drivers or overweight matrons. LOL

Nope I didn't wish that . I just wished diane and her promoters could have seen the bigger picture.........!

**marv2** · 09-14-2011, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Exactly RossHolloway.

NAH, that's not true. Mary Wilson was asked about RTL a little over a month ago by a New York Times reporter. Sure it was all 10 years ago, but I have seen people discussing "The Wiz" which has been like 33 years ago.