Gladys Horton interview 1992 surfaced

[Kamasu_Jr]

I don't think anyone feels Motown 25 shouldn't be discussed, or anything else for that matter; I think it is the bitterness that some fans express that many feel should be, by now, let go of, and moved away from; not the discussion.

Well said. Some people love to hold grudges for things they had no part of. They made Flo Ballard, the poster child of losers and victims and now it's poor Gladys Horton and the Marvelettes. The late Eddie Kendricks once said: "A lot of Motowners love to complain about what Motown didn't do for us, but they don't acknowledge what Motown did do for us..."
Some people love to complain & bitch over things they have no right to and can't change. I agree...let it go.

[Roberta75]

while we're plugging fun, trashy books full of industry dirt[[but sadly, nothing on Motown), there's the new auto bio "Lick Me: How I Became Cherry Vanilla" by Warhol/Bowie/new wave superstar Cherry Vanilla..
try it, you'll like it..trust me..
she was the first female night club DJ in NYC in the 60's and she DOES talk about playing Marvelettes records in the big NY clubs

If you enjoy a dishy, trashy but fun read I strongly urge you to purchase "The Fabulous Sylvester" by Joshua Gamson.

I grew up listening to Sylvester as my cousin was a huge fan so that made the book even more enjoyable for me.

[ladonna]

while we're plugging fun, trashy books full of industry dirt[[but sadly, nothing on Motown), there's the new auto bio "Lick Me: How I Became Cherry Vanilla" by Warhol/Bowie/new wave superstar Cherry Vanilla..
try it, you'll like it..trust me..
she was the first female night club DJ in NYC in the 60's and she DOES talk about playing Marvelettes records in the big NY clubs

Does she dish on The Supremes, Miss Ross?

[BobC]

Jimi--I just bought the book on Amazon--I'll let you know how I liked it--but I can already tell by the title and photo on the cover that I will!

Roberta--I have read one book on Sylvester [[years ago and I can't remember the title) and it was anything but funny. It was mostly about him dying of AIDS and I never realized how sheltered I was about that disease until I read that. Horrifying isn't even doing it justice. Nobody should have to suffer that fate--the poor guy. About the only nice thing I got from that book is that Sylvester always started his day playing my friend Nona Hendryx's song "Nighbird." I hope the song brought him some peace.

Ladonna--if you want some funny Diana Ross stories, get Boy George's book. It is full of Diana's "artistic temperament." Also--I know I'll get lynched for saying this--but Tony Turner's books are some of the funniest chit I have ever read in my life. I don't care if the stories are a bit...exaggerated for comedic effect. Just that one story about Florence B taking over the limousine is worth the price of the book!

[Jimi LaLumia]

I love Tony Turner,met him several times at THE BUNKHOUSE on Long Island,where I was manager and the resident DJ..
the Cherry Vanilla book is not a Motown book,but I know this inside the music biz tell all[[lots of dirt and sex-she started out as a groupie, before becoming a New Wave star,aligned with Andy Warhol and David Bowie) is right up the alley of most folks here;it's a fun,and very absorbing read..

[Roberta75]

Roberta--I have read one book on Sylvester [[years ago and I can't remember the title) and it was anything but funny. It was mostly about him dying of AIDS and I never realized how sheltered I was about that disease until I read that. Horrifying isn't even doing it justice. Nobody should have to suffer that fate--the poor guy. About the only nice thing I got from that book is that Sylvester always started his day playing my friend Nona Hendryx's song "Nighbird." I hope the song brought him some peace.

The book I am referring to was written in 1996 BobC. See reviews and synopsis below.

Imagine a pied piper singing in falsetto, wearing sequins, and leading the young people of the nation to San Francisco and on to a liberation where nothing was straight-laced or old-fashioned. And everyone, finally, was welcome--to come as themselves. This is not a fairy tale. This was real, mighty real, and disco-sensation Sylvester was the piper.

Yale-trained sociologist Joshua Gamson uses Sylvester's life to lead us through the story of the 1970s, when a generation took off its shame. Celebrity, sociology, and music history mingle in this endlessly entertaining story of a singer who embodied the freedom, spirit, and flamboyance of a golden moment in American culture.

"The Fabulous Sylvester is a well written, touching, dignified biography of a gay, black diva who never really fit into any minority but managed to achieve his dreams of stardom. Now that's what I call a man."--John Waters

"[A] superbly written, wildly entertaining, frequently hilarious, and finally bittersweet saga."--Time Out New York

"Delightful . . . I'm not sure I've ever read an account of a life that has so much sheer joy, raffishness, and humor on each page. . . . As fables go, this is a good one."--Newsday

[ladonna]

Boy George's Take it Like a Man has been ordered. Thanks for the recommendation, peeps!

[BobC]

Hey--I totally believe you, Roberta--I was just saying that I obviously read a very different bio.

[Roberta75]

Hey--I totally believe you, Roberta--I was just saying that I obviously read a very different bio.

Oh I wasn't doubting you in any way my love. I knew you must have read a different biography.

My best to you.

Roberta

[loveblind]

Gladys had been soar at Smokey for years . He basically snatched her from the forefront and put Wanda Young as lead. Gladys loved Wanda, but there was some resentment and it was hurtful for her.

[marv2]

Gladys had been soar at Smokey for years . He basically snatched her from the forefront and put Wanda Young as lead. Gladys loved Wanda, but there was some resentment and it was hurtful for her.

Loveblind you are very correct. They way it was done was rather cruel by any standards.

[rod_rick]

Loveblind you are very correct. They way it was done was rather cruel by any standards.

Did Smokey produce any songs with Gladys on lead? If not do you think Smokey was trying to have his own version of Supremes with Wanda on lead? Just a thought

[marv2]

Did Smokey produce any songs with Gladys on lead? If not do you think Smokey was trying to have his own version of Supremes with Wanda on lead? Just a thought

I don't recall if Smokey ever produced any songs with Gladys on the lead [[including album cuts). I do know that he never wrote any songs intended for Gladys to sing the lead most definitely! I do not believe Smokey had thoughts of creating his own version of the Supremes, because after all, the Supremes were his girls! There was a family thing going on there which Wanda benefitted from even though she herself did not push to become the new lead.

[theboyfromxtown]

Smokey also gave the spotlight to David Ruffin for the Temptations with "My Girl". And the results were very fruitful and was given accolades because of it.

I am sure Smokey felt he was doing the right thing by giving the spotlight to Wanda and I can well understand why Gladys might have not been entirely happy about it. With Wanda being married to Bobby, there was an additional family link through his wife which must have been hard to ignore.

The position never called for an alternative lead singer for Diana Ross in the Supremes but if the situation called for it, it would have made good sense to try either Florence or Mary.

In the cold light of day, the Marvelettes' success had cooled considerably by 1966 but "Don't Mess With Bill" changed all that. From a business point of view, it made good sense to have Wanda leading the group because it was her sound that was making the money for the company and also for the group.

I loved Gladys as the lead singer but I also loved Wanda too. I suspect most of us feel that way.

[smark21]

Did Smokey produce any songs with Gladys on lead? If not do you think Smokey was trying to have his own version of Supremes with Wanda on lead? Just a thought

Yes he did. Among them: He's a Good Guy [[Yes, he is), As Long as I Know He's Mine, and Paper Boy.

[marv2]

Yes he did. Among them: He's a Good Guy [[Yes, he is), As Long as I Know He's Mine, and Paper Boy.

Yes he did what? Produce, write or both on those songs?

[luke]

I believe in the book, Kat talks about Wanda's ego increasing as time went on, and her becoming extremely difficult for a number of reasons. The book was certainly well intentioned but not much new in it.

[captainjames]

Interesting interview with Gladys~~~
I hope Gladys was able to make peace with some her fellow Motowners before leaving us. It sounds like a lot of things were said during Gladys' exit at Motown and I hope they were able to forgive one another.

[robbert]

I doesn't seem to me many of you have an account on Facebook. If you did, you would be able to find even MORE interesting information on The Marvelettes and other Motown artists and alumni. Mr. Stephen Woods writes well, among others, and his work is always an interesting read. Just the other day he put the complete Marvelettes Story on Facebook, in several parts.

Here's the link to the page Salute to the Original Marvelettes on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/19...group_activity.

[smark21]

Yes he did what? Produce, write or both on those songs?

According to the liner notes of the Marvelettes Deliver set, Smokey Robinson wrote and produced He's a Good Guy [[Yes He Is) and As Long as I Know He's Mine, both of which were released as A-sides. Robinson produced Paper Boy and wrote the song in conjunction with Janie Bradford. So he used Gladys on lead, though obviously he employed Wanda more often. IMO, the Smokey/Wanda recordings represent one of the best producer/vocalist collaborations at Motown--the two of them just clicked musically.

[smark21]

I believe in the book, Kat talks about Wanda's ego increasing as time went on, and her becoming extremely difficult for a number of reasons. The book was certainly well intentioned but not much new in it.

One comment I remember from the book was that even after Wanda started singing leads on the A-sides, Motown always considered Gladys the leader of the group and the member they consulted with. And her departure had an impact on the group's relationship with Motown.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I just joined the Marvelettes Facebook page;
and for those on Facebook, you're more than welcome to join mine..
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Jim...82293495170473

[theboyfromxtown]

Robbert

Is it possible to copy and paste that information here for those who are not on facebook..like me!

[marv2]

According to the liner notes of the Marvelettes Deliver set, Smokey Robinson wrote and produced He's a Good Guy [[Yes He Is) and As Long as I Know He's Mine, both of which were released as A-sides. Robinson produced Paper Boy and wrote the song in conjunction with Janie Bradford. So he used Gladys on lead, though obviously he employed Wanda more often. IMO, the Smokey/Wanda recordings represent one of the best producer/vocalist collaborations at Motown--the two of them just clicked musically.

He did not write any of those songs specifically FOR Gladys Horton.

[smark21]

He did not write any of those songs specifically FOR Gladys Horton.

Fair enough, I have no proof or documentary evidence that he wrote those songs specifically for Gladys Horton. He could very well have pulled those songs out of his "trunk" when he was slated to do some sides with Gladys on lead. They are certainly among his most generic and uninteresting songs. Pleasant enough [[except for the silly and dated Paper Boy), but nothing special.

But you stated in a post above: " I do know that he never wrote any songs intended for Gladys to sing the lead most definitely!"

That's a very confident statement. What are your sources to support this assertion? Are they primary or secondary?

[marv2]

Fair enough, I have no proof or documentary evidence that he wrote those songs specifically for Gladys Horton. He could very well have pulled those songs out of his "trunk" when he was slated to do some sides with Gladys on lead. They are certainly among his most generic and uninteresting songs. Pleasant enough [[except for the silly and dated Paper Boy), but nothing special.

But you stated in a post above: " I do know that he never wrote any songs intended for Gladys to sing the lead most definitely!"

That's a very confident statement. What are your sources to support this assertion? Are they primary or secondary?

The source? Gladys Horton, "Live in LA" with Tanya Hart, 1990 BET.

[robbert]

Robbert

Is it possible to copy and paste that information here for those who are not on facebook..like me!

I will give it a try, John. Facebook can be a nasty copy&paste source, though.

[Roberta75]

The source? Gladys Horton, "Live in LA" with Tanya Hart, 1990 BET.

Could you please post the link or clip where this was said. I'd love to see, hear or read it.

Many thanks in advance.

Roberta.

[marv2]

Could you please post the link or clip where this was said. I'd love to see, hear or read it.

Many thanks in advance.

Roberta.

NO! It is on a VHS tape, in a box, in storage, somewhere with about 400-500 tapes from 80's and 90's. There is no money [[or time) in it for me to go through all that trouble. Thanks!

[Roberta75]

NO! It is on a VHS tape, in a box, in storage, somewhere with about 400-500 tapes from 80's and 90's. There is no money [[or time) in it for me to go through all that trouble. Thanks!

Thank the Lord all your tapes are archived for posterity. Have you ever considered working with a museum to do an exhibition focusing on your vast video tape collection. Maybe the Museum of Radio or Television or the Motown Museum would underwrite the exhibit. Food for thought.

I must congratulate you on your marvelous memory marv2. It's no small feat remembering a Gladys Horton quote from a 1990 interview. Well done.

Roberta

[marv2]

Thank the Lord all your tapes are archived for posterity. Have you ever considered working with a museum to do an exhibition focusing on your vast video tape collection. Maybe the Museum of Radio or Television or the Motown Museum would underwrite the exhibit. Food for thought.

I must congratulate you on your marvelous memory marv2. It's no small feat remembering a Gladys Horton quote from a 1990 interview. Well done.

Roberta

Anytime....

[smark21]

The source? Gladys Horton, "Live in LA" with Tanya Hart, 1990 BET.

OK, I believe that. Do you recall what she specifically stated? Was she upset that Smokey didn't give her the same attention as Wanda? Or do you think Smokey should have concentrated on recording songs for Gladys and kept Wanda in the background?

[smark21]

NO! It is on a VHS tape, in a box, in storage, somewhere with about 400-500 tapes from 80's and 90's. There is no money [[or time) in it for me to go through all that trouble. Thanks!

YOur storage unit must be packed. Have you thought of transferring your tapes to disc or uploading to your computer or a flash drive to better preserve them? What if a water leakage were to occur at your unit? It might destroy your tapes.

[marv2]

OK, I believe that. Do you recall what she specifically stated? Was she upset that Smokey didn't give her the same attention as Wanda? Or do you think Smokey should have concentrated on recording songs for Gladys and kept Wanda in the background?

This as close as I remember.....[[Gladys) "I went to Smokey and asked him if he could write me some songs to help me get my career back on track..... he turned me down, he never wrote a song for me!" paraphrasing here. She went on to basically say that no one from the early days would or could help her.

What shocked me about all of it and which is probably why I remember this is because years before that there was a rougher like version/ explanation as to why Smokey did not write songs with Gladys in mind. It was the "street" story that I am not posting here. LOL!

[marv2]

YOur storage unit must be packed. Have you thought of transferring your tapes to disc or uploading to your computer or a flash drive to better preserve them? What if a water leakage were to occur at your unit? It might destroy your tapes.

You have to be kidding me right? I have stuff in storage from Colorado to Boston in garage, basement, some in a house owned by my uncle in Michigan that did get water damage, to New York! This is not unique in modern America guys. LOL!

[robbert]

I'm working on my copy & paste job on a manuscript regarding The Marvelettes, written by Stephen Woods. It'll take some time. If you really can't wait, go to http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/19...group_activity and try and look Stephen's attributions up for yourself. It'll be a labyrinth, don't say I haven't warned you...

There are several Facebook pages tributed to all sorts of Motown related persons and/or subjects. The Supremes have several pages, mind you. All with lots of pictures, often rare ones, that people bought in auctions. Also the FLOS are there with their own page.
And Blinky Williams. And Katherine Anderson Schaffner [[Marvelettes). And Martha Reeves. And Betty Kelley. And Louvain Demps [[Andantes). And Frank Wilson. And Scherrie Payne. And Mary Wilson. And Nick Ashford/Valerie Simpson. And Gladys Knight. And Jack Ashford. And Otis Williams [[Temptations). And Barbara McNair. And Clay McMurray.
And... well go see. They ALL have their own page on Facebook!

Go to Facebook and check it out!

[robbert]

Footage of Gladys Horton of The Marvelettes in the year 2000. She is interviewed about the bogus Marvelettes groups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub02g...layer_embedded

[motony]

I don't think Smokey purposely snatched the leads from Gladys & gave to Wanda.I think the problem was Smokey wanted a female singer to replace the loss of Mary Wells.Motown & Smokey tried with Kim Weston,Brenda Holloway & Carolyn Crawford &others & it didn't work.He always liked Wandas voice and he recorded her on"Don't Mess With Bill" .When it hit then you keep goin with what hits.

[randy_russi]

Well, Smokey first used Wanda on "You're My Remedy" in '64. Wanda and Gladys ALWAYS shared leads--B side of the
first single is led by Wanda [[So Long Baby) and Wanda did several leads on the first lp too.

[randy_russi]

By the way, in the interview it apparent Gladys is angry at Smokey, but this has NOTHING to do with Wanda singing
lead on many of his productions [[Gladys did "He's A Good Guy" and "As Long As I Know..."), she is angry that he
was responsible for Larry Marshak getting the rights to the group name.

[franjoy56]

This is the post im referring to where gladys blasts smokey gordy and motown for loosing the marvelettrs name

[midnightman]

This thread is wild. I don't even think I even seen it until today but most of the responses are nuts.

Gladys said she HEARD. Not that she knew.

BIG difference.

This is an "I heard it through the grapevine" situation... and y'all fell right into the trap. WEAK.

[midnightman]

By the way, in the interview it apparent Gladys is angry at Smokey, but this has NOTHING to do with Wanda singing
lead on many of his productions [[Gladys did "He's A Good Guy" and "As Long As I Know..."), she is angry that he
was responsible for Larry Marshak getting the rights to the group name.

First off, all the names of the groups were in control of Motown. How would Smokey easily give that up to some pool shark like Larry? This has basically been urban folklore for years but when Gladys' estate and Katherine sued, it was against Marshak. BG, Smokey and Motown weren't named in the papers.

What Gladys said doesn't mean there's proof they gave it up like that. Because that would mean Marshak OWNED the name and he didn't! That's why they were free to sue him to stop using the name against them. This is the "proof"?

Then I got a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.

[franjoy56]

what gladys had to say was legitimate and how she felt about the situation. Im just sorry gladys didn't live to see the outcome of the lawsuit filed in the estate of gladys and marvelette member Catherine. Had she lived she would have been part owner of the name.

First off, all the names of the groups were in control of Motown. How would Smokey easily give that up to some pool shark like Larry? This has basically been urban folklore for years but when Gladys' estate and Katherine sued, it was against Marshak. BG, Smokey and Motown weren't named in the papers.

What Gladys said doesn't mean there's proof they gave it up like that. Because that would mean Marshak OWNED the name and he didn't! That's why they were free to sue him to stop using the name against them. This is the "proof"?

Then I got a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.

[marv2]

This thread is wild. I don't even think I even seen it until today but most of the responses are nuts.

Gladys said she HEARD. Not that she knew.

BIG difference.

This is an "I heard it through the grapevine" situation... and y'all fell right into the trap. WEAK.

Smokey Robinson said some really trashy, lowdown stuff to Gladys Horton, to her face when she asked him why he was giving all of the leads [[meaning on the singles) to Wanda. This is not hearsay. I believed as soon as I heard it. I know how people in Detroit are or can be..........BLUNT! LOL!!!!

[marv2]

First off, all the names of the groups were in control of Motown. How would Smokey easily give that up to some pool shark like Larry? This has basically been urban folklore for years but when Gladys' estate and Katherine sued, it was against Marshak. BG, Smokey and Motown weren't named in the papers.

What Gladys said doesn't mean there's proof they gave it up like that. Because that would mean Marshak OWNED the name and he didn't! That's why they were free to sue him to stop using the name against them. This is the "proof"?

Then I got a bridge to sell you in San Francisco.

That is not true. As we have come to learn over the years, not all of the acts names were trademarked nor did Motown routinely trademark the names of all of their groups.

[marv2]

what gladys had to say was legitimate and how she felt about the situation. Im just sorry gladys didn't live to see the outcome of the lawsuit filed in the estate of gladys and marvelette member Catherine. Had she lived she would have been part owner of the name.

I agree it was sad. She worked her butt off in her later years too.

[midnightman]

The Tony Turner love in this thread lol

[franjoy56]

I remember seeing her in long island in 07 on a oldies bill billed as gladys horton of the marvelettes. I came back stage to say hello she was happy to see me it was not her best performance she seemed weak and it was the last time i saw her. I actually met her in 99 at t vghof she was a bundle of fun and information

[RanRan79]

what gladys had to say was legitimate and how she felt about the situation. Im just sorry gladys didn't live to see the outcome of the lawsuit filed in the estate of gladys and marvelette member Catherine. Had she lived she would have been part owner of the name.

It's unfortunate that Gladys allowed hearsay to dictate her feelings. As the lawsuit revealed, the Marvelettes name was never gambled away. So I think at this point shouldn't that subject be put to rest? It never happened and aren't we glad it didn't? Had Larry been lawfully given the name by Motown [[Smokey never could've given it away) there probably would have been nothing Kat could do about it. Score one for the good guys[[girls)!!!