Gladys Horton interview 1992 surfaced

**robbert** · 08-12-2011, 09:47 PM

Follow this link and you'll read all about it.

http://mickeynold.blogspot.com/2011/...ys-horton.html

**marv2** · 08-12-2011, 10:44 PM

Thanks Robbert, I will check it out.

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 12:18 AM

Gladys sounds terrific here; she comes across as very humble, down to earth, intelligent, and REAL. I am tempted to purchase Hip-o's The Complete Motown Albums Volume I; however, a lot of their earlier stuff is not that interesting. I am, however, totally on board for Volume II.

**kenneth** · 08-13-2011, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by ladonna

Gladys sounds terrific here; she comes across as very humble, down to earth, intelligent, and REAL. I am tempted to purchase Hip-o's The Complete Motown Albums Volume I; however, a lot of their earlier stuff is not that interesting. I am, however, totally on board for Volume II.

Ladonna, It's a great set. Some of their early material was a little rough but there's a lot of great surprises on it, such as the live sets and a lot of the B-sides and unreleased material is great to hear. Also, for a 3-CD set it's pretty reasonably priced, I think only $40 compared to the $70 for the Supremes set. K

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 12:35 AM

LOL! Sold! I purchased the Deliver The Hits series for the Marvelettes and the Vandellas and while I don't listen to either package that often, I do, at times return to the one on the Marvelettes. You're right, I think I'll get Volume I, as well.

**kenneth** · 08-13-2011, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by ladonna

LOL! Sold! I purchased the Deliver The Hits series for the Marvelettes and the Vandellas and while I don't listen to either package that often, I do, at times return to the one on the Marvelettes. You're right, I think I'll get Volume I, as well.

Hey, I hope you do. I'm sure you'd be glad you did. "Deliver" and "Live Wire" were both great sets except the big mystery on the Vandellas set is how they managed to omit "A Love Like Yours"? I hope someone's head rolled over that one!

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 12:46 AM

Wait a minute now; the more I listen to this interview, there is some bitterness going on there. She really is not impressed with the Motown Museum, is she? LOL!

**carlo** · 08-13-2011, 12:46 AM

Wow! Thank you VERY much Robbert for sharing this interview. Ladonna, I totally agree. While I had never really seen Gladys on TV or heard many interviews conducted with her over the years, I always could tell that she was a genuine, earthy, kind lady. God Bless her and may she rest in peace.

I am hoping to visit the Motown Museum later this summer. I really do hope they now have some sort of photo tribute of the Marvelettes? If they don't, I'm going to make sure they do.

Ladonna: I am happy to hear you purchased Forever Volume 1! You will enjoy it.

It's good that you purchased it because once these releases are gone, they're gone...and then we always have the fans that come on here shortly afterwards, expressing how they wished they had bought the CD when it was still available.

I hope Volume 2 is still coming soon?!

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 12:50 AM

What is her beef with Smokey, tho?

**kenneth** · 08-13-2011, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by ladonna

What is her beef with Smokey, tho?

She blames him early in the interview for giving use of the "Marvelettes" name to Larry Marshak. One of the early books about Motown said it was lost in a poker game. I wonder what the truth is?

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 12:55 AM

Hmmmm? Either way, not cool.

**carlo** · 08-13-2011, 01:00 AM

Also...where's the promised Marvelettes Anthology we were supposed to get??

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 01:07 AM

Is there a book; did she find a publisher?

**nabob** · 08-13-2011, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by kenneth

. . . . . . "Deliver" and "Live Wire" were both great sets except the big mystery on the Vandellas set is how they managed to omit "A Love Like Yours"? I hope someone's head rolled over that one!

Another error was using the wrong mix master for Never Leave Your Baby's Side. Fortunately, the correct mix surfaced on the Spectrum, MRV-Early Classics.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 08:39 AM

Berry Gordy and Esther should hang their heads in SHAME after listening to this, Smokey Robinson as well...DISGRACEFUL!...
and for those here who claimed that all was peaches and cream between The Marvelettes and Motown, you are hereby shut down by Miss Gladys Horton herself..
after giving the first black owned pop music label their first national #1 pop hit ever, the treatment and shunning they have recieved...
DISGRACEFUL!!!

**roger** · 08-13-2011, 10:43 AM

Fascinating interview!!

Presumably, as the interview is almost 20 years old, the issues for which she criticises the Motown Museum have now been addressed?

Roger

**kenneth** · 08-13-2011, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by roger

Fascinating interview!!

Presumably, as the interview is almost 20 years old, the issues for which she criticises the Motown Museum have now been addressed?

Roger

I've never been there, but those I know who have say it still looks like a tacky thrown together affair. From what I have heard, the Motown Exhibit at the Henry Ford Museum did a much better job at spotlighting what made Motown special, than Motown did for itself. I wonder if there's a catalog available from that exhibit that could have been purchased at the time.

There's a URL for the Motown Museum but it's just a "now under construction" page. I can't find any sites showing what the museum looks like. I did find this promotional web site:

http://www.motownmuseum.com/mtmpages/index.html

It doesn't have much information, but it does have a few photos. As usual, on the "Artists" page, The Marvelettes aren't even mentioned, just as Gladys Horton complained about in the '92 interview! So doesn't appear that much has changed.

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 11:34 AM

We finally find out what happened I read about poker games and all of that too.! Gladys has to be telling the truth because Martha wouldnt lie about something like that and Smokey wrote some of the Marvelettes biggest hits with Wanda on lead so it wouldnt make sense that this group wouldnt be on Motown 25! Very revealing Gladys is no dummy people in the music industry think the old timers dont know about publishing and what goes on behind closed doors they know because they have been hoodwinked. What is really sad is the way Stevie W, Michael Jackson and Diana Ross are always put up front as the main moneymakers for Motown [[oh and Marvin Gaye). I remember [[was it Mary Wilson) someone said Flos face had beeen cut out of one of the pictures in the museum. I asked someone why doesnt Berry Gordy give money to the museum and maintain it and why are they always asking for donations and a friend of mine said because it doesnt make money for him. At his age how much more money does he need? I would think he would care about his legacy and then Smokey is always coming out with the same old words about the Motown family and how Berry was misrepresented in Dreamgirls and all of this. Smokey made them [[the creators of the movie) issue an apology to Berry! If he can go get the calvary to do that he could have made a simple call and see if the Marvelettes still wanted to perform. This also lets me know Motown owned their name! I know business is ugly but this was a black owned company and you would have thought that although it is not their responsibility to take care of former artists Gladys is right they should have been invited to Motown 25 and had a say in the selling or use of the name. Heck keep the name let Gladys sing and get a percentage of the show although they know she wont attact 25,000 people so they would not have made much but right is right. I have seen in countless articles [[non Motown) how popular the Marvelettes were and still are and people are always asking why Motown never honored them on that show. Its criminal Im sorry and now poor Gladys is gone. Its time to make it right with Gladys, and Katherine. and Juanita.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 12:04 PM

no one can cover Gordy's tracks on this particular atrocity;
and Smokey Robinson tries to cover up things like the "Dream Girls" mess because as VP of Motown, Smokey was PART OF IT!

**randy_russi** · 08-13-2011, 12:14 PM

It has been suggested that Smokey was jealous of the Marvelettes getting a #1 record before the Miracles. However,
"Shop Around" was the first million-seller, but missed #1 [[it went to #2). However, he did work with them and did
produce and write some hits for the Marvelettes.

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

She blames him early in the interview for giving use of the "Marvelettes" name to Larry Marshak. One of the early books about Motown said it was lost in a poker game. I wonder what the truth is?

Well, she also said in an interview, on television, in 1990 that when she was really having trouble with her career she went to Smokey for help. He basically laughed at her and said "oh so you're down? Well then stay down!" What percipated that response, she did not say. She did go on to say some pretty strong things about Smokey and his alleged treatment of his former wife Claudette Robinson. She pointed to it as an indication of Smokey's character. Again, why she brought that up, she did not say. There have been more very rough like interchanges between Gladys and Smokey over the years that we will not get into OK? LOL!!!!!

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by kenneth

I've never been there, but those I know who have say it still looks like a tacky thrown together affair. From what I have heard, the Motown Exhibit at the Henry Ford Museum did a much better job at spotlighting what made Motown special, than Motown did for itself. I wonder if there's a catalog available from that exhibit that could have been purchased at the time.

There's a URL for the Motown Museum but it's just a "now under construction" page. I can't find any sites showing what the museum looks like. I did find this promotional web site:

http://www.motownmuseum.com/mtmpages/index.html

It doesn't have much information, but it does have a few photos. As usual, on the "Artists" page, The Marvelettes aren't even mentioned, just as Gladys Horton complained about in the '92 interview! So doesn't appear that much has changed.

I use to volunteer at that Museum [[1986-87) just before they got the "Historical Site" designation. It was pretty rough I have to admit. Photos were hung using scotch tape, etc LOL! Without going further, that should give you an indication of "quality" of the displays...........

smark21 · 08-13-2011, 01:03 PM

I went to the museum a few years ago. The upstairs part with the exhibits was nothing special. What makes the museum special is once you go down the stairs and see the offices and then the climax, walking into the Snake Pit. That's what makes a visit to the Motown Museum worthwhile, not those exhibits upstairs. The exhibits might be educational for someone who knows little or nothing about Motown, but does not hold much interest for those who have some knowledge. The kids who staff the place are nice though.

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by stephanie

We finally find out what happened I read about poker games and all of that too.! Gladys has to be telling the truth because Martha wouldnt lie about something like that and Smokey wrote some of the Marvelettes biggest hits with Wanda on lead so it wouldnt make sense that this group wouldnt be on Motown 25! Very revealing Gladys is no dummy people in the music industry think the old timers dont know about publishing and what goes on behind closed doors they know because they have been hoodwinked. What is really sad is the way Stevie W, Michael Jackson and Diana Ross are always put up front as the main moneymakers for Motown [[oh and Marvin Gaye). I remember [[was it Mary Wilson) someone said Flos face had beeen cut out of one of the pictures in the museum. I asked someone why doesnt Berry Gordy give money to the museum and maintain it and why are they always asking for donations and a friend of mine said because it doesnt make money for him. At his age how much more money does he need? I would think he would care about his legacy and then Smokey is always coming out with the same old words about the Motown family and how Berry was misrepresented in Dreamgirls and all of this. Smokey made them [[the creators of the movie) issue an apology to Berry! If he can go get the calvary to do that he could have made a simple call and see if the Marvelettes still wanted to perform. This also lets me know Motown owned their name! I know business is ugly but this was a black owned company and you would have thought that although it is not their responsibility to take care of former artists Gladys is right they should have been invited to Motown 25 and had a say in the selling or use of the name. Heck keep the name let Gladys sing and get a percentage of the show although they know she wont attact 25,000 people so they would not have made much but right is right. I have seen in countless articles [[non Motown) how popular the Marvelettes were and still are and people are always asking why Motown never honored them on that show. Its criminal Im sorry and now poor Gladys is gone. Its time to make it right with Gladys, and Katherine. and Juanita.

Stephanie, I will say this......Gladys was not lying! She may have been a little too forthcoming which can create problems all unto itself.

Kat told me that they were not invited to Motown 25 and when Marvin Gaye asked her why not, she didn't know.

If Mary mentioned that she saw a picture of the Supremes with Florence cut out of it. She is not lying either. Mary came to visit in late 1988 while she was starring in the play "Beehive" across the river in Windsor. That picture had been on display since 1986 by that time. You see there was a decent sized b/w picture of the Supremes arriving in Japan at the airport in 1966 that was put up on one of the display boards back in the 80's that showed a couple of Japanese record execs, Mary Wilson, then Diana Ross and more guys from Japan. A while later, I saw the original picture and Florence was standing right in the middle of that picture. Someone took a scissors and cut her right out of it and then taped the remaining photo back together showing Mary and Diane side by side! LOL! I had to move a bunch of boxes up there; some of them contained old artwork, photos etc from album covers from the sixties.

True, the Museum at that time was in dire need of funding, donations and yes folks use to always go away asking why didn't Berry pump more money into it. Well he did! The Museum was a non-profit , at least it was way back then and Mrs. Edwards was responsible for the Museum, not Berry Gordy. After enough bad reviews, he did contribute substantial funding,but the bulk of the funding had to come from donations, fundraising events, corporate contributions [[which helped when the huge exhibit at The Henry Ford Museum at Greenfield Village in Dearborn went up in 1985).

The Museum has had major renovations and addtions done since the 80's and it is very much worth visiting today.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 01:20 PM

and I believe now, more than ever, that the 70's/'new' Supremes got the Horton treatment from Day One;
they wanted to hang onto Supremes fans, but there was no desire for a Ross-less version to succeed,and obviously no intention of allowing that to happen;
we see how they roll..

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 01:27 PM

One thing I've noticed about a lot of Motown stars is that they seem to feel that Motown, whether it be Berry Gordy, Smokey, whomever, should take care of them forever--when most left the label voluntarily and bad-mouthed Motown at every turn. I am not judging whether or not their complaints are valid--I wasn't there--but you really can't expect to leave a company, dog it, and then go running back expecting it to support you. Smokey Robinson doesn't owe anybody anything and neither does Berry Gordy. I am always amazed that somebody like Mary Wilson, for example, bad-mouthed Motown in the late 70's but stayed with the company anyway--and then was mystified as to why there was little support for the 70's Supremes. Once again, I am not judging whether or not she had legitimate gripes--but if I were Berry Gordy, and read that stuff in the press, I wouldn't be chomping at the bit to promote her. I'm just being honest here. As far as any feud between Gladys Horton and Smokey is concerned--why on earth would Smokey be jealous of her or anyone else at Motown? Smokey outlasted them all--with the exception of Stevie Wonder and Lionel Richie. Smokey was Berry's most trusted business partner--and when Smokey had a few lulls in his own career, he never dogged Motown or Berry. That says a lot about his character, IMO.

**Roberta75** · 08-13-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

One thing I've noticed about a lot of Motown stars is that they seem to feel that Motown, whether it be Berry Gordy, Smokey, whomever, should take care of them forever--when most left the label voluntarily and bad-mouthed Motown at every turn. I am not judging whether or not their complaints are valid--I wasn't there--but you really can't expect to leave a company, dog it, and then go running back expecting it to support you. Smokey Robinson doesn't owe anybody anything and neither does Berry Gordy. I am always amazed that somebody like Mary Wilson, for example, bad-mouthed Motown in the late 70's but stayed with the company anyway--and then was mystified as to why there was little support for the 70's Supremes. Once again, I am not judging whether or not she had legitimate gripes--but if I were Berry Gordy, and read that stuff in the press, I wouldn't be chomping at the bit to promote her. I'm just being honest here. As far as any feud between Gladys Horton and Smokey is concerned--why on earth would Smokey be jealous of her or anyone else at Motown? Smokey outlasted them all--with the exception of Stevie Wonder and Lionel Richie. Smokey was Berry's most trusted business partner--and when Smokey had a few lulls in his own career, he never dogged Motown or Berry. That says a lot about his character, IMO.

Very well stated BobC. I can tell we have another voice of reason on this forum which is a welcome addition to this forum IMO.

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 01:50 PM

Thanks, Roberta! Glad to be here. I love the Motown story! I read all the show biz memoirs--whether I was a fan of the artist or not--but Motown has the most fascinating story IMO. I've read ALL the Motown books, and if you have any critical thinking skills at all, you can figure out the truth amidst all the personal recollections. One very telling statement came from Smokey, and it was so simple and direct I am surprised it never got any attention--he said of Florence Ballard, that some people can handle fame, and others can't. It really is that simple. Fame is HARD, and once you reach the top, there is nowhere to go but down. Imagine how humiliating it must be to have once been a part of one of the greatest groups of all time, and then having to apply for a job at a MacDonalds or whatever. I would never want to be famous.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 02:54 PM

Smokey outlasted them all ,even when his records weren't selling[[which was most of the time) because he was the crow sitting on Gordy's shoulder just like in a pirate movie;
he outlasted many others because, being the crow on the shoulder, the rug wasn't pulled out from under him as it was with many others;
and spin all you want, there is no justification for what has been done to Gladys Horton and The Marvelettes...voice of reason...hmmmm

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 03:03 PM

Jimi it was in some cases worst than we will ever know. You see there were some people, those that were right along side of Smokey and them coming up there were not in awe........

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 03:06 PM

To learn about what things were really like, we must turn to the actual participants. I suggest you buy the new book "Hype and Soul" !

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 03:39 PM

Jimi--tell me what exactly was "done" to Gladys? Did she not leave the group and Motown because she had a child? I quit my job a month ago--so should I go around saying my employer owes me something? They don't. Now, I will agree that it was wrong, in an ethical sense, that Gladys was not allowed to tour using her old group's name--but what contract did she sign when leaving Motown? That's what it boils down to. If she signed away rights to the name, then Gladys did it to herself. And as far as not being given her "due," I can understand that her feelings were hurt and she's entitled to feel that way. However, let's be frank here, the Marvelettes were known, really, for one big pop song and a few minor hits that only collectors and Motown fans remember today. The Supremes, Temptations, 4 Tops, Stevie Wonder, etc. all had dozens of hits, which is why they are much more famous.

I have heard Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin, Marvin Gaye, Mary Wilson, and many other Motown artists complain that they haven't received their 'due." What does that mean, exactly? What would rectify this "due" situation, in their minds? A statue? Gladys mentions a lack of a Gold Record, but as far as I can recall, nobody at Motown got gold records. Most of these artists [[probably not Gladys, I'll admit)made millions of dollars and they blew it all. These artists were loved by millions and that love allowed all of them to continue to tour and at least make a living, decades after they were past their prime. I'm really sorry to bring a bit of reality to this situation, but I think most of these artists are lucky to have been part of the Motown mystique--how many artists from the 60's, 70's or 80's can even still tour today? Not many.

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 04:00 PM

BobC I agree with everything you are saying and you are right it was a job and a former employer doesnt owe you anything.
However when it comes to history the Marvelettes have been treated like s***! They have gotten more letters to be in the RRHOF than a lot of other acts [[not Motowns fault they are not there though), Gladys wasnt really asking for anything in the interview except for some recognition. I get the impression that if she had gotten some recognition from the company and being on Motown specials she wouldnt be so upset. Mary Wells gets more honor than the Marvelettes do and they are not one hit wonders either! People who were there and have seen them live actually feel they were better performers than the Supremes [[as far as dance steps that is true). If you look at their body of work and the historical aspect of this group with Motown there is NO reason why they shouldnt be on some of those specials. Many people hate their jobs and cant leave so Mary Wilson saying something is not a shock but since she is in show business I guess making a public statement is different.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 04:34 PM

The Marvelettes had many hits, but there was one hit that deserved recognition;
the first #1 Billboard pop hit in Motown's history;
can you imagine if Smokey or Ross had delivered Motown's first #1 pop hit? we'd never hear the end of it;
despite "PlayBoy","Beechwood 45789",Hunter Gets Captured By The Game","MY Baby Must Be a Magician","Don't Mess with Bill"...
"PLEASE MR.POSTMAN" and the group deserve the recognition for putting Motown on the map with radio and distributors with that first Motown #1!..
in this industry, all that ever matters is #1 breakthoughs,and no rewriting or erasing of history will ever change the facts..so tell Smokey what he can do with his once in a while hit career..

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 04:40 PM

Its too bad we cant bring the Brits over here they would rally around Berrys house all night until the Marvelettes got some recognition!

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 04:40 PM

Steph--I can sympathize with that aspect of Gladys' story--the lack of recognition--but how would anyone remedy this situation? And who can do that for her group? I came to knowing Motown in the 70's, not the 60's, and frankly I never even heard of the Marvelettes until I became interested in the Motown story. I knew "Postman" but that was it. I am not knocking them--just telling the truth. While "Postman" is undeniably a great pop record, it has, to my ears, the classic girl group sound of the 50's, not so much what has come to be known as the "Motown Sound." It was the rise of HDH that really cemented Motown's unique sound in the 60's. Maybe that's why the Marvelettes aren't as known as some of the other groups. I hear a very distinct change in sound in the records released in 1964, as opposed to those released even a year or two earlier.

All I'm trying to say is that so many Motown artists complain about not getting their due--but what would make them happy? Seriously?

**skooldem1** · 08-13-2011, 04:42 PM

Funny thing is everytime I watch a show that discusses the history of Motown, or read an article or book, the Marvelettes and that song, are always mentioned.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 08-13-2011, 04:49 PM

well, I guess you never watched the ultimate Motown show, "MOTOWN 25";
you know, the top rated NBC TV special saluting the history of Motown in which The Marvelettes do not exist;
as to the guy who never heard of The Marvelettes,well, that tells you all you want to know about Motown's adroit handling of the group that gave them their first #1;
what do they want?..acknowledgement of the fact i just mentioned..
not everyone gave Motown their first national #1, which opened the doors for what followed, only THE MARVELETTES did..so quit trying to downplay something that is not downplayable..

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 04:53 PM

I stand corrected, Jimi--I have heard "Don't Mess With Bill." BUT--I never heard any of those other records until I listened to this interview with Gladys. By the time the 70's rolled around, when so many of the classic Motown stars started to struggle, those other songs were by and large forgotten. Even on oldies stations. People my age knew "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" and "Where Did Our Love Go" but sorry, we never heard of "Too Many Fish in the Sea" or "My Baby."

Life isn't fair. Berry was holding on for dear life just juggling the careers of his biggest groups like The Supremes and Temptations--and he was doing the best he could. As soon as any group saw a flop single, they turned on Berry [[as if Berry didn't want to make money). He had to make make painful decisions. At Motown 25, Diana Ross said "It's an odd thing, but Berry has never felt appreciated," and even Mary Wilson seemed to act like she didn't know why Berry felt that way. I can understand!

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 04:55 PM

Jimi--every Motown book I've ever read has credited "Postman" as Motown's 1st number one record.

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 05:06 PM

Here we go again! Skool I can have sympathy for BobC because he only knows the 70s but YOU! Oh by the way no character assassination here I like you. In your defense YES the Marvelettes are mentioned BUT what Motown special [[and yes I know Wanda and is not mentally able to participate) or anything Motown have they been asked to be a part of? I have talked to Katherine Schaffner and she wants NO money from Motown and as a matter of fact she has not been as vocal about the recognition as Gladys has been in the past and even SHE feels the Marvellettes have been overlooked. For HER to feel this way its true. Katherine has no desire to sing again or perform and yes that statement is in writing. So for her to feel this way I dont think Gladys has an unwarranted gripe.

BobC the Four Tops, Temptations, Supremes etc had a longer lasting shelf life as far as the performing aspect of the Motown groups and have been honored and remembered. Gladys kept performing until she could or needed the money or whatever but in my mind the one way this could be remedied is for Motown to acknowledge them! Maybe its too late and I am just a diehard fan on a rant but when I heard about Motown 25 and saw it you should have seen or heard the number of people asking about how come the Marvellettes were not invited? For Marvin Gaye to ask that dont you think it might be somewhat of a major factor. On a lesser scale not general publicity wise but historically why wasnt James Jamerson invited?
Did they think he was going to cause a scene or something? One of the greatest bass players in the history of not only Motown but music MOST bass players know who this man is. I really dont want to believe that story I read about Jamerson having to get a ticket from a scalper I really dont. I know some will say that Diana, and Marvin and others will bring ratings but even though Martha and Jr Walker were there did you see how long they were on stage? Give me a break they could have given Linda Ronstadt and Adam Ants time to them.! If I here one more person say that Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt were asked so younger viewers would tune in I will croak. Even if the Marvelettes didnt sing they could have interviewed Katherine or shown her like the did Ashford and Simpson! When you know Motown history or if you were born in the 60s Mr Postman was like My Guy, it was huge! The Carpenters even redid it and the Beatles. I could see if this discussion was about the Originals or the Elgins and dont get me wrong they have their place in Motown history but this was a major group that helped to catapault Motown.

**BobC** · 08-13-2011, 05:11 PM

Fair enough. I forgot Linda R and Adam Ant were even on that show. Whose idea was that? Ugh!

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by stephanie

Its too bad we cant bring the Brits over here they would rally around Berrys house all night until the Marvelettes got some recognition!

Stephanie, you'd better quit! LOL!!!!

**Roberta75** · 08-13-2011, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by stephanie

Here we go again! Skool I can have sympathy for BobC because he only knows the 70s but YOU! Oh by the way no character assassination here I like you. In your defense YES the Marvelettes are mentioned BUT what Motown special [[and yes I know Wanda and is not mentally able to participate) or anything Motown have they been asked to be a part of? I have talked to Katherine Schaffner and she wants NO money from Motown and as a matter of fact she has not been as vocal about the recognition as Gladys has been in the past and even SHE feels the Marvellettes have been overlooked. For HER to feel this way its true. Katherine has no desire to sing again or perform and yes that statement is in writing. So for her to feel this way I dont think Gladys has an unwarranted gripe.

BobC the Four Tops, Temptations, Supremes etc had a longer lasting shelf life as far as the performing aspect of the Motown groups and have been honored and remembered. Gladys kept performing until she could or needed the money or whatever but in my mind the one way this could be remedied is for Motown to acknowledge them! Maybe its too late and I am just a diehard fan on a rant but when I heard about Motown 25 and saw it you should have seen or heard the number of people asking about how come the Marvellettes were not invited? For Marvin Gaye to ask that dont you think it might be somewhat of a major factor. On a lesser scale not general publicity wise but historically why wasnt James Jamerson invited?
Did they think he was going to cause a scene or something? One of the greatest bass players in the history of not only Motown but music MOST bass players know who this man is. I really dont want to believe that story I read about Jamerson having to get a ticket from a scalper I really dont. I know some will say that Diana, and Marvin and others will bring ratings but even though Martha and Jr Walker were there did you see how long they were on stage? Give me a break they could have given Linda Ronstadt and Adam Ants time to them.! If I here one more person say that Adam Ant and Linda Ronstadt were asked so younger viewers would tune in I will croak. Even if the Marvelettes didnt sing they could have interviewed Katherine or shown her like the did Ashford and Simpson! When you know Motown history or if you were born in the 60s Mr Postman was like My Guy, it was huge! The Carpenters even redid it and the Beatles. I could see if this discussion was about the Originals or the Elgins and dont get me wrong they have their place in Motown history but this was a major group that helped to catapault Motown.

Motown 25 was over 28 years ago. No offense but isn't it time to move on Stephanie?

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 05:22 PM

Good Lord people! I heard, Linda and Adam were there as part of the agreement with whichever network Motown brokered the deal with. Sentimentality is one thing, show BUSINESS is another.

**Roberta75** · 08-13-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by ladonna

Good Lord people! I heard, Linda and Adam were there as part of the agreement with whichever network Motown brokered the deal with. Sentimentality is one thing, show BUSINESS is another.

Well said ladonna.

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 05:24 PM

I am usually not passionate about a lot of things other than God and life [[isnt that enough) I could even care less about how likes Otis and Diana and Smokey but when it comes to history [[black history and Motown) folks need to get it right. I say this because even in politics [[ms M knows what I mean) history has been rewritten and this stuff is handed down. I dont hate Berry Gordy I dont know him and I dont dislike anyone but when you have the money, and the power and the fact that you were THERE do get it RIGHT there is no excuse Im sorry. I will give a prime example there are people NOW who think Diana Ross discovered the Jackson Five because of Motowns PR. Well of course years later it came out that she didnt that is was Bobby Taylor and Gladys Knight. If nobody finds this out in some of Diana's early stage shows she comes out and says here is a group of young boys I discovered and she sings I Want you Back. People who have not heard the truth will think SHE discovered them and it would be a false part of her and the Jacksons legacy. People think [[young kids) Diana Ross put Flo Ballard out of the Supremes and we know that is not true. If it had not been for Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement I might not be able to be typing at this computer right now or those who died for the rights of blacks. I can tell you right now there are people who dont want blacks to know their history. When Gladys talked about Smokey overstepping the decision as to why the Marvelettes were not at Motown 25 I was shocked! I didnt want that story to be true that is the first time I have heard this. If it is not true I will take back everything I said. Even Mary Wilson said in her book Supreme Faith that when she felt the Supremes were not being promoted properly she went to Smokey and he said talk to Berry. Smokey and Diana had a special in of course they were not going to feel neglected. Marv the Brits get it right and you know how analytical they are! Its not right to not have some history and acknowledgement especially when it is Motown and black history all together. Enough of my rant!

**stephanie** · 08-13-2011, 05:28 PM

Ladonna and Roberta Im not going to rant and yes I am going to let it go but this was not a variety show it was a celebration of the history of Motown. Ok a deal was brokered I didnt know that but when you have a man being honored [[this was no surprise special to him by the way) and a woman Miss DePasse who has enough pull to get on her knees and beg certain people to be there who didnt WANT to come you can pick up a phone and call a Marvellette those are my last words on this subject.

**marv2** · 08-13-2011, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by BobC

Steph--I can sympathize with that aspect of Gladys' story--the lack of recognition--but how would anyone remedy this situation? And who can do that for her group? I came to knowing Motown in the 70's, not the 60's, and frankly I never even heard of the Marvelettes until I became interested in the Motown story. I knew "Postman" but that was it. I am not knocking them--just telling the truth. While "Postman" is undeniably a great pop record, it has, to my ears, the classic girl group sound of the 50's, not so much what has come to be known as the "Motown Sound." It was the rise of HDH that really cemented Motown's unique sound in the 60's. Maybe that's why the Marvelettes aren't as known as some of the other groups. I hear a very distinct change in sound in the records released in 1964, as opposed to those released even a year or two earlier.

All I'm trying to say is that so many Motown artists complain about not getting their due--but what would make them happy? Seriously?

Bluntness Alert!!!!

First of all if the Marvelettes had gotten PAID, that would have been a great start. They didn't ! Oh sure they were given a few bucks and a few little diamond and gold trinkets and shit like that at company Christmas parties.

They could have been, should been invited to and all expenses paid for all of the Marvelettes to attend [[if not to perform) at those big , lavish Motown television events. They should have been introduced and acknowledged properly at Motown 25 and again at Motown Returns to The Apollo! Hell , you've seen the clips of the Marvelettes performing at the Apollo as a part of the "Motortown Revue". Those girls were working their butts off to not only please the crowd, but to also promote Motown Records! They should have been there in 1985. Hello and a special shout out to Ms. Suzanne DePasse!

They didn't even interview any of them for "Motown 40" in 1998!

I believe if Motown wanted to at that time, they could have gotten the name "Marvelettes" back and at least license it to Gladys Horton or any of the other members of the group even if they weren't going to award it to them outright. So as I see it , Gladys had many good substantial reasons to have been unhappy with the way she and the Marvelettes have been treated.

How to rectify past wrong doings now? Good question especially now that Gladys Horton and Georgette have now passed on, it doesn't matter I guess in their cases, but while all the rest are still here something should be done. How about paying them?!

ladonna · 08-13-2011, 05:34 PM

Ever hear the one about Lana Turner being discovered sipping a soda at Schwab's Drugs, Stephanie? That's the SHOW part of show business.

With regard to black history, isn't it more important to know that African-Americans are descendants of kings and queens, than what record was the first number one at Motown? Just sayin'.