The Jean, Cindy, Linda group

**markdtiller** · 08-05-2011, 06:23 PM

I joined SDF to get away from all the bitchery that goes on in Supremes Yahoo groups, seems it's impossible to get away from. Shame!

Ramone Verona · 08-06-2011, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

You all need to STFU. what people do or not do away from this board is not relevant. I can say that I have had contact with Marv going back 12 years, on the net and through private communication, and he has been nothing but a gentleman to me. So that's MY experience. There are others in this thread that have spread some VERY nasty rumours, and they better watch it, or i'll open the whole can of worms and reveal what they are.

Must work for S&P...

**REDHOT** · 08-06-2011, 01:37 AM

From what i hear,the group was,Jean Terrell,Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne,Lynda Laurence came alone,after Cindy changed her mine,and did her solo thing.
Please stay positive

**rod_rick** · 08-06-2011, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

From what i hear,the group was,Jean Terrell,Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne,Lynda Laurence came alone,after Cindy changed her mine,and did her solo thing.
Please stay positive

Redhot that was the 80's when Scherrie was asked to reform a version of the supremes

**REDHOT** · 08-06-2011, 10:25 AM

I don't know everything about The Supremes from the 70s[[But i do know a lot),and i have never heard that Cindy Jean and Lynda were forming a group together.NEVER
Please stay positive

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-06-2011, 12:50 PM

A short-lived record label named Superstar Records approached Scherrie Payne to record her as a soloist. Then in talks with Scherrie they came up with the idea of reforming a Supremes-type group. Scherrie first contacted her best friend Cindy Birdsong, who then recommended Jean Terrell. Just as they were about to sign with Superstar, some fans in London put a new record company there in touch with her and she was offered a solo deal. She opted for that and Jean called upon Lynda, who for the second time, replaced Cindy Birdsong

**REDHOT** · 08-06-2011, 04:34 PM

And that's what i heard BayouMotownMan,Again never heard of a group,forming,with Cindy Jean,and Lynda.
Please stay positive

**marv2** · 08-06-2011, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by REDHOT

And that's what i heard BayouMotownMan,Again never heard of a group,forming,with Cindy Jean,and Lynda.
Please stay positive

Redhot, Scherrie originally contacted Cindy and Mary Wilson about it. Mary declined because she had her solo career and at that time she was preparing to become the next "Tina Turner", hehehehehehe...... THEN Scherrie contacted Jean Terrell, Cindy dropped out and Linda Lawrence was brought in. That's how they got "Former Ladies of the Supremes".

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-06-2011, 05:32 PM

Scherrie Payne called Mary Wilson to see if Mary had any objections over this act tying itself into the Supremes legacy. Scherrie had the foresight to have in her Motown release that she could tie her name into the Supremes. Mary was touring extensively with a Supremes act already and was about to publish her long-awaited autobiography. Mary gave her blessings, and even jumped up onstage when Jean, Scherrie and Lynda played their first L.A. date. The original grouping was to be Jean, Scherrie and Cindy. Lynda came shortly thereafter

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-06-2011, 05:35 PM

That being said, in 1982 the Temptations Reunion was a highly successful tour, albeit hampered with far too many personal issues between the participating members. Suzanne dePasse, while already planning Motown 25, then came up with the idea for a Supremes reunion and contacted Mary. Mary intended to use Cindy and Scherrie for this grouping, to be sponsored by Motown. When Mary approached Berry Gordy, he was not so enthused. The idea died quickly.

**marv2** · 08-06-2011, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Scherrie Payne called Mary Wilson to see if Mary had any objections over this act tying itself into the Supremes legacy. Scherrie had the foresight to have in her Motown release that she could tie her name into the Supremes. Mary was touring extensively with a Supremes act already and was about to publish her long-awaited autobiography. Mary gave her blessings, and even jumped up onstage when Jean, Scherrie and Lynda played their first L.A. date. The original grouping was to be Jean, Scherrie and Cindy. Lynda came shortly thereafter

Yeah ,BUT! She asked Mary Wilson to join and Mary said NO! Ask Scherrie.

**marv2** · 08-06-2011, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

That being said, in 1982 the Temptations Reunion was a highly successful tour, albeit hampered with far too many personal issues between the participating members. Suzanne dePasse, while already planning Motown 25, then came up with the idea for a Supremes reunion and contacted Mary. Mary intended to use Cindy and Scherrie for this grouping, to be sponsored by Motown. When Mary approached Berry Gordy, he was not so enthused. The idea died quickly.

Which had nothing whatsoever to do with Superstar International Records approaching Scherrie with the idea of forming a new group...........

**Roberta75** · 08-06-2011, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Scherrie Payne called Mary Wilson to see if Mary had any objections over this act tying itself into the Supremes legacy. Scherrie had the foresight to have in her Motown release that she could tie her name into the Supremes. Mary was touring extensively with a Supremes act already and was about to publish her long-awaited autobiography. Mary gave her blessings, and even jumped up onstage when Jean, Scherrie and Lynda played their first L.A. date. The original grouping was to be Jean, Scherrie and Cindy. Lynda came shortly thereafter

Thank you again for posting facts instead of fiction BayouMotownMan.

**marv2** · 08-06-2011, 06:44 PM

You're welcome!

**jobeterob** · 08-09-2011, 02:40 PM

Sounds like there could have been dozens of ideas for potential groupings of both Supremes and Temptations; but as we see, the Temptations continued with 30 of so members and the Supremes died.

**marv2** · 08-09-2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Sounds like there could have been dozens of ideas for potential groupings of both Supremes and Temptations; but as we see, the Temptations continued with 30 of so members and the Supremes died.

And there were over 65 different members of the Drifters!!!

**johnny_raven** · 08-09-2011, 06:21 PM

But the Temps still have 1 original member ...

**marv2** · 08-09-2011, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by johnny_raven

But the Temps still have 1 original member ...

Which is true and which also legitimizes their act along with their obvious talent. These other groups have to deal with the laws in individual states pertaining to copycat groups, bogus acts etc,etc. You have to have at least one original member in order to be considered legitimate.

**skooldem1** · 08-09-2011, 07:17 PM

Have the Tempts been under contract since the beginning- or were there lapses?

**jobeterob** · 08-09-2011, 08:07 PM

I'm sure there were lapses in a contract for the Temptations as well. But as Johnny Raven pointed out, they have one original member. And in addition, Otis is an astute businessman who managed the enterprise very well. This is why he has a reputation for being hardnosed and difficult. And the Supremes had a very much opposite experience. While both groups degenerated into bickering and squabbling when the hits stopped, Otis kept a very tight rein on things and kicked members out right and left. And Mary Wilson had Pedro mistreating her and the other Supremes and mismanaging everything, booking them where they didn't belong, and Mary was having to beg members to return to fill dates and hire the Karen's who then went on to use their Supreme connections to take away bookings and reduce the value of the name.

**chestersong** · 08-10-2011, 03:23 AM

in fairness though, both the supremes and temptations in all their groupings have had difficult times. these folks are in business to make cash and money; NOT to be some legacy that must be upheld to the human population.

**jillfoster** · 08-10-2011, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

Which is true and which also legitimizes their act along with their obvious talent. These other groups have to deal with the laws in individual states pertaining to copycat groups, bogus acts etc,etc. You have to have at least one original member in order to be considered legitimate.

That's why I think those laws are flawed. Under those rules, Sheila Ferguson couldn't take a group of Three Degrees out on the road. And The Brotherhood Of Man couldn't perform, although right now, it has the same 4 members it's had since 1974.

**jobeterob** · 08-10-2011, 11:07 AM

The laws haven't had much effect anyway. It's a minefield of an area of the law.

**marv2** · 08-10-2011, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by jillfoster

That's why I think those laws are flawed. Under those rules, Sheila Ferguson couldn't take a group of Three Degrees out on the road. And The Brotherhood Of Man couldn't perform, although right now, it has the same 4 members it's had since 1974.

I'm sorry that Sheila Ferguson, if she chose to perform as a member a group called "The Three Degrees" cannot in the U.S., but that is what many States agreed to when they signed the legislation regarding this matter. Maybe if the legal owners of the name, such as in the case of the Treadwells and the Drifters, agree to allow her to use the name "Three Degrees" Otherwise.........no dice!

**marv2** · 08-10-2011, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

The laws haven't had much effect anyway. It's a minefield of an area of the law.

It has. It has caused a lot of inauthentic music acts to re-classifyl themselves as "tribute acts".

**Roberta75** · 08-10-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

It has. It has caused a lot of inauthentic music acts to re-classifyl themselves as "tribute acts".

Not really. The Marvelletes [[All 30 year old women) have a long term gig in Vegas with the Platters and the Coasters. The Supremes [[Kaaren's SOTS groups) are playing the Beverly Hills Hotel on Sunday night with Bonnie Pointer so you see groups without any original members are still getting booked.

http://fla.vor.us/wafform.aspx?_act=...&afflky=18QG86

**carlo** · 08-10-2011, 12:21 PM

I remember reading a while back that Gladys and Katherine had been awarded The Marvelettes trademark. I cannot recall...were Larry Marshak's rights to use the Marvelettes' trademark revoked? I would assume so, but I can't remember the details.

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 12:35 PM

Basically this "law" is relatively meaningless. There are ways around anything. What's the difference if there is at least one original member of a group, the look and the sound will still be different. Here in the US, the oldies acts can't get the bookings or the bucks that they can get overseas anyway, so groups like the FLOS or SOTS still work consistently. Trademarks in the US are no good outside of the US.

You can change one letter in a name and still perform without breaking a law. Besides, it's only in a few states anyway that HALFWAY endorse this.

With everything going on, I doubt legislators give a rat's *** about this when the country as a whole could face a major economic depression in the very near future. Then NOBODY is gonna work. Let's get our priorities together. If you really want to stop fake Supremes and fake Marvelettes, etc., just don't pay to see them.

**marv2** · 08-10-2011, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Roberta75

Not really. The Marvelletes [[All 30 year old women) have a long term gig in Vegas with the Platters and the Coasters. The Supremes [[Kaaren's SOTS groups) are playing the Beverly Hills Hotel on Sunday night with Bonnie Pointer so you see groups without any original members are still getting booked.

http://fla.vor.us/wafform.aspx?_act=...&afflky=18QG86

Either you missed reading a portion of my post or you just didnt' understand. Those Marvelettes use the name by permission of the owner of that trademark. Otherwise they would be paying fines. I think you already know that "The Sounds of the Supremes" are a tribute act and cannot legally call themselves "The Supremes" regardless of how one member of that group misrepresents herself.

**marv2** · 08-10-2011, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Basically this "law" is relatively meaningless. There are ways around anything. What's the difference if there is at least one original member of a group, the look and the sound will still be different. Here in the US, the oldies acts can't get the bookings or the bucks that they can get overseas anyway, so groups like the FLOS or SOTS still work consistently. Trademarks in the US are no good outside of the US.

You can change one letter in a name and still perform without breaking a law. Besides, it's only in a few states anyway that HALFWAY endorse this.

With everything going on, I doubt legislators give a rat's *** about this when the country as a whole could face a major economic depression in the very near future. Then NOBODY is gonna work. Let's get our priorities together. If you really want to stop fake Supremes and fake Marvelettes, etc., just don't pay to see them.

There are something like 38 States that now have laws on the books regarding this practice of falsely advertising musical acts using long established names without having any of the original members.

I was speaking only in regards to the United States. I thought using the word "States" would have been a hint! What an act does overseas is of no consequence as it relates to State laws here in America. Sure The FLOS and the Sounds of the Supremes work consistently MOSTLY overseas. The types of gigs they get I really don't even want to get into but I think you know.

Changing letters in names, printing portions of the acts name in BOLD letters etc are all little games played to keep them from being fined. I know that.

Legislators TODAY may not give a rat's behind, true, but a few years ago when the battle was on and this new legislation was being implemented.......they did care enough. Google research it. There are probably dozens of stories on this issue.

**Roberta75** · 08-10-2011, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Basically this "law" is relatively meaningless. There are ways around anything. What's the difference if there is at least one original member of a group, the look and the sound will still be different. Here in the US, the oldies acts can't get the bookings or the bucks that they can get overseas anyway, so groups like the FLOS or SOTS still work consistently. Trademarks in the US are no good outside of the US.

You can change one letter in a name and still perform without breaking a law. Besides, it's only in a few states anyway that HALFWAY endorse this.

With everything going on, I doubt legislators give a rat's *** about this when the country as a whole could face a major economic depression in the very near future. Then NOBODY is gonna work. Let's get our priorities together. If you really want to stop fake Supremes and fake Marvelettes, etc., just don't pay to see them.

Beautifully and articulately stated.

**Roberta75** · 08-10-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by marv2

Either you missed reading a portion of my post or you just didnt' understand. Those Marvelettes use the name by permission of the owner of that trademark. Otherwise they would be paying fines. I think you already know that "The Sounds of the Supremes" are a tribute act and cannot legally call themselves "The Supremes" regardless of how one member of that group misrepresents herself.

Read the talent portion on the link. It clearly states "The Supremes" and not Sounds of the Supremes.

Talent
THE AMAZING PLATTERS [["ONLY YOU" / "THE GREAT PRETENDER"), THE COASTERS REVUE [[A TRIBUTE TO THE COASTERS "YAKETY YAK" / "CHARLIE BROWN"), THE SUPREMES [[A fantastic vocal blend on Motown classics, standards, contemporary songs blende), BONNIE POINTER [[FROM THE GRAMMY AWARD WINNING GROUP THE POINTER SISTERS), LISA RINE [[CD RELEASE "Do you Believe in Love" & "Send me your Picture" Both from "War is), E'CASANOVA [[Singer, Songwriter, Actor, Producer and the World's Greatest Tribute Artist. He), TOMIRAE BROWN, JEANETTE BAZZELL TURNER, ALEXA RUSSO [[BROADWAY MUSICAL ARTIST)

**jobeterob** · 08-10-2011, 01:17 PM

The law doesn't always work perfectly and that is the case here.

Part of the problem in the USA is that most of these laws are state laws; you need a FEDERAL statute passed and that might help a little bit. But the law as written is pretty much ineffective as several people state above.

You can lose a trademark due to the failure to use it. I believe this is why the FLOS obtained the trademark to the name Supremes in the UK. Mary Wilson may have lost it due to the failure to use it.

God knows what is still occurring with the name Marvelettes. But I've seen the months long gig for the Marvelettes somewhere in the USA. It is advertised on one of those sites selling tickets. They are working more than any "other" Motown act.

The only group that got properly protected was the Temptations; because Otis was diligent, hard nosed and totally business oriented; which means some people dislike him a lot but he did a good job!

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 01:49 PM

No reasoning with a mental case guys. Laws are passed on local, state and federal levels everyday, doesn't mean they are enforced. It's a nice way of shutting up lobbyists and gaining support. In my mind, I'm worried about the country as a whole, not about a group of entertainers fighting over use of a name. It's not my battle. I will support those I wish to see and not see the ones I don't support.

I seriously doubt if you stopped the average American in a mall or parking lot and ask about this law that they will care either way. In fact, most of the people under 35 won't even know the entertainers you are referring to. But to some fans who have nothing to do with their time but obsess over someone who is kind enough to receive you backstage after a show, this is I guess a life-changing event.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 08-10-2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

No reasoning with a mental case guys. Laws are passed on local, state and federal levels everyday, doesn't mean they are enforced. It's a nice way of shutting up lobbyists and gaining support. In my mind, I'm worried about the country as a whole, not about a group of entertainers fighting over use of a name. It's not my battle. I will support those I wish to see and not see the ones I don't support.

I seriously doubt if you stopped the average American in a mall or parking lot and ask about this law that they will care either way. In fact, most of the people under 35 won't even know the entertainers you are referring to. But to some fans who have nothing to do with their time but obsess over someone who is kind enough to receive you backstage after a show, this is I guess a life-changing event.

One thing I've noticed is that some promoters and bookers are so confused by this law or don't know who was an original member, a lot of oldies groups don't get booked in Tennessee. Acts like Mary Wilson, The Temptations, etc. have not worked in the Memphis area in years. Nobody will touch 'em because they come with too much drama and baggage and they don't sell tickets the way they once did.

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 03:02 PM

Very good point Kamasu. Some years ago Mary's promotors were "warning" all the venues of the fake groups out there. I think in the long run, this hurt Mary. It certainly did so legally.

I love Mary and I am sympathetic to her plight. I think she SHOULD be given priority booking over the others. Unfortunately as time marches on it works against her and her fellow veteran performers. Also, when they have a bad night and the revues are not flattering, this hurts as well. Word spreads rather fast and with the economy the way it is these promotors are careful to book whom they think will draw. Only the 40+ crowd would be interested in seeing a Mary Wilson show...that is IF they remember who she is. Memories are fading quickly as we get older. If you ask who is touring as Steppenwolf, I couldn't tell you. Most of us just don't have the money to shell out for concerts and CDs the way we used to.

**Kamasu_Jr** · 08-10-2011, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Very good point Kamasu. Some years ago Mary's promotors were "warning" all the venues of the fake groups out there. I think in the long run, this hurt Mary. It certainly did so legally.

I love Mary and I am sympathetic to her plight. I think she SHOULD be given priority booking over the others. Unfortunately as time marches on it works against her and her fellow veteran performers. Also, when they have a bad night and the revues are not flattering, this hurts as well. Word spreads rather fast and with the economy the way it is these promotors are careful to book whom they think will draw. Only the 40+ crowd would be interested in seeing a Mary Wilson show...that is IF they remember who she is. Memories are fading quickly as we get older. If you ask who is touring as Steppenwolf, I couldn't tell you. Most of us just don't have the money to shell out for concerts and CDs the way we used to.

You are definitely right on the money.

Ramone Verona · 08-10-2011, 04:12 PM

Good to know saner minds prevail.
One person has led us to believe that Mary is working now independent of her supreme connection/reputation.
But of course that's not the case.
The faces of our "oldies" acts are sure changing.
Saw an ad the other day that consisted of one 60's group, two 70's groups, and mostly early 80's groups.
Sigh

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 04:27 PM

Ramone I don't recall Mary Wilson ever working independent of her Supreme connection or ever claiming to. There is not an interview she does where the name Supremes or Diana Ross does not come up. She has always been resigned to that, and I must say, always classy about it.

The Return To Love tour was the worst thing that could have happened to Ross, Wilson and the Supreme legacy. It's tarnished, like it or not, forever. History books will show their enormous success...and how it ended in bitterness and anger.

Ramone Verona · 08-10-2011, 04:37 PM

True, however I looked forward to seeing Scherrie and Lynda and Diana sing together on-stage.
They make for a lively show and these supremes were such team players.
Scherrie and Lynda have often said they had a blast with Diana so I'm glad for that.
I do not feel sorry for the fans in this case.
Yes, books will showcase the supremes as how everyone can't be equal forever and life's trails diverge.

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 04:57 PM

That tour was cancelled before it got to my area, I was going to see them, but.... I do have a video and though the show was overblown, Scherrie brought MSG down with Stoned Love. Diana really gave the fans what they wanted, even doing Reach Out I'll Be There.

**chestersong** · 08-10-2011, 04:59 PM

i always feared that after mary wrote her tell-all, she would never work as a supreme again--outside of kelly rowland on a side-stage over the audience. although the 2000 tour was ill-advised, my opinion will always be that when the fans get too much information about the inside of a group, rather than the fantasy that fans enjoy, THAT is when damage gets done to any "legacy". and mary's books just kept at it--tearing away at any harmony. when they debuted it was fascinating gossip, but when the attention waned, mary just proved that on a human level her group was no more special or less special than any other group. like a bee-hive that a kid smashes to see what's on the inside. after the bees quit swarming, it's just another broken hive.

Ramone Verona · 08-10-2011, 05:14 PM

It's funny that when her "Faith" book had the subtitle: Someday We'll Be Together"; little did she know: "No Day"

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 05:18 PM

Great post Chester. Immediate windfalls can be long-term disasters. Ross will never trust Wilson again

**marv2** · 08-10-2011, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

Very good point Kamasu. Some years ago Mary's promotors were "warning" all the venues of the fake groups out there. I think in the long run, this hurt Mary. It certainly did so legally.

I love Mary and I am sympathetic to her plight. I think she SHOULD be given priority booking over the others. Unfortunately as time marches on it works against her and her fellow veteran performers. Also, when they have a bad night and the revues are not flattering, this hurts as well. Word spreads rather fast and with the economy the way it is these promotors are careful to book whom they think will draw. Only the 40+ crowd would be interested in seeing a Mary Wilson show...that is IF they remember who she is. Memories are fading quickly as we get older. If you ask who is touring as Steppenwolf, I couldn't tell you. Most of us just don't have the money to shell out for concerts and CDs the way we used to.

LOL!!!! You have to be joking or smoking!!! LOL!!!!! In any case thanks. that was the biggest laugh I've had today at least, hehehehehehe.......!

**BayouMotownMan** · 08-10-2011, 05:43 PM

The biggest what? Can somebody help this guy with the big words?

**Roberta75** · 08-10-2011, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

The biggest what? Can somebody help this guy with the big words?

Ignore him BayouMotownMan.

**robbert** · 08-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Maybe, but next to Jean, and especially Lynda, Cindy would've been blown away.

Ramone Verona · 08-10-2011, 09:51 PM

I take my family to Vegas about every two years.
It has changed so much due to the economy.
It's no wonder it was reported mary wilson had a mediocre turn-out, and in a small venue, yet.
Those places, like most Americans' households, got bills to pay.
If it's an oldies act, you've got to have the most famous lead voice and face.
Not a side-show from "members".
Even the Liberace museum blows the candles out when nobody's looking!

Ramone Verona · 08-10-2011, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

That tour was canceled before it got to my area, I was going to see them, but.... I do have a video and though the show was overblown, Scherrie brought MSG down with Stoned Love. Diana really gave the fans what they wanted, even doing Reach Out I'll Be There.

I must say that Scherrie's performance was not only Spectacular, but I was surprised Diana and her promoters/managers allowed it. Scherrie commanded the stage as well as the audience with her powerful voice on a wonderful song, Stoned Love.
Yeah, Diana was back-stage getting into a new gown but how could you follow "that"??
Then we found out how fond Diana was of Scherrie and Lynda and their keeping the music of the supremes and solo-Ross alive with no smack-talk.
I bet Diana treated them to great food, too!!!!!!
[[as well as those nice coats we saw on the TODAY Show!)
I loved the whole concept of Diana's show with Scherrie and Lynda and wished it had continued for a long time.
I may even have had a tear in my eye when they sang that interlude from the Copa show about "and we will have it for you at the next time".......my memory isn't perfect on that line....."and here's another song that you've made popular, and we'd like to do it now......"
I would have died if Diana and the girls had sung "Cross-roads of Love" or "Breath-taking Guy"!!!!!!!
My underwear would have been up there on ANY of those girl's shoulder pads!!!