acetates

[psychedelic jacques]

Having just begun a thread about an acetate I found on YouTube, it has made me realise that I actually know next to nothing about acetates and their purpose back in the day. Can anyone shed light on the following:

1] did they come in different sizes? The one posted on YT contains about 3 or 4 tracks on each side, and was presumably 10 or 12", but I think there were also 7" acetates which were either single sided or double sided?

2] what were they made of? vinyl, shellac, metal?

3] how many? Was only one copy pressed, or a run?

4] what was their purpose? was it like having a handy disc to play at weekly quality control meetings, or did they have a wider purpose than that?

Any opinions welcomed.

[DWSheffer]

I'm certainly no expert in this field, but here's my 2 cents worth of opinions and I don't give refunds!

Yes, they came in all the sizes you mention, and the standard speeds. I have a 10" acetate of the Temptations with one cut on it, as well as a single sided 7" so it can certainly vary what's on an acetate. I have another Tempt's 10" acetate with 3 different takes on one side. But yes, they can be single or double sided as well on any of the size formats.

Acetates are generally a metal aluminum plate with a thin layer of lacquer into which the audio is cut. It's a pretty fragile medium, especially as the years go by and they get more prone to the lacquer separating from the metal surface. As far as I'm aware, there is no good way to clean an acetate, and for the most part it's best to leave well enough alone, save for very gentle dusting if the surface is solid. Any liquid cleaner can penetrate the surface and get underneath and separate it from the plate, especially if there is a nick or scratch, or worse yet, literally dissolve the lacquer. Some of the transfer services do use liquids but they are obviously professionals and have likely discussed the risks with their clients, as it's usually a last-ditch effort to transfer a compromised acetate to a digital medium.

I can't give you any numbers figures, as I don't have any direct knowledge, but I'm sure it depended on the intended use of the acetate. I would assume for the quality control meetings only a handful were produced to be given to those most involved with the process like Mr. Gordy, the producers and Billie Jean Brown. Sometimes acetates were cut in larger quantities to be sent out as promo copies before the vinyl white label promos were pressed. You would have to assume enough of these were cut to send out to all the major radio stations to get airplay started while vinyl promos were being pressed. It sounds like it didn't take ARP in Owosso long to press records for Motown once the masters were received. I'm sure they bent over backwards for Motown especially once they hit big.

I guess the main purpose of most acetates was to be able to listen to a track as it would sound on a record before the expense would be made to produce stampers and put in an order for thousands of copies. Obviously another reason in this case was for the acetate to be played at the quality control meeting, to see if you'd rather buy the record you're hearing or a hot dog if you were down to your last dollar.
Darin

[mysterysinger]

This might assist a little. Just to say also I've seen reference to songwriters acetates and I think ownership acetates. Several were made as Jobete acetates and the artists were not always signed to Motown.

https://www.runoutgrooves.com/collec...etate-records/

[woodward]

Well based upon the two above replies, we know a lot more than we did before. I learned a lot from the two respondents to the original posting.

Thanks to both of you.

[psychedelic jacques]

yes, thanks for the responses - very illuminating.

[copley]

The few acetates that I own are indeed very fragile! Some still play OK but others jump about a bit unless I weigh down the stylus. Mine are 10" and one sided with 3 or 4 songs. Some were demos sung by session singers or the tea lady. Other were demos by the actual artist. I have not clapped eyes on them for years!

[woodward]

Keith Hughes left behind an excellent article he put together on acetates which might be of interest to some.

Motown Acetates - Detroit City Limits Article 1996

From Detroit City Limits by Graham Anthony

Does anyone out there know anything about Motown acetates? A recent article in Detroit City Limits listed the contents of some Motown acetates that appeared on the market a couple of years back [[and then rapidly disappeared), and invited info. Id seen the same list around the time they were advertised, and recognised the "JD" prefix from other acetates Id come across in my research, but it wasn't until another collector tipped me off and I started looking at the listings more closely, that I realised that this series of acetates is rather remarkable. So in response to the invitation, let me take you on a short journey of discovery. A word of warning before we start, however. The Editor has spoken to me sternly, and I will do my best to avoid references to boiler pressure and double chimneys, but I advise you to keep your pencils sharpened and your lan Allan ABCs at the ready; the train will be moving at speed, and there's a lot to see.

First lets try to reconstruct the recording process at Hitsville. From mid 1961 up until the end of 1964, sessions at Hitsville were identified individually, at least by number, and probably by producer and artist as well: some days there were no sessions, and some days there was more than one session sometimes more than one session with the same people. See the session numbers on the recent CD Amos Milburn - The Motown Sessions 1962-1964, for examples. The highest session number known from this period is 1432; this numbering series probably started on 1 Jan 1962, but see the other recent Motown CD, Motowns Blues Evolution, for some earlier session numbers. Session numbers were used for paperwork only; they dont appear on record labels, and until very recently didn't appear on liner notes either, other than for a short period only, in France. [[An example was reprinted in an issue of Detroit City Limits: the French outlet for Motown in the sixties also had access to details of the session musicians, and frequently printed them.)

Back in the 1960s, three track recording tape [[Mike McLean upgraded the Motown desk from 2 track to 3 track early in 1962) was an expensive item, and Berry Gordy ran a tight ship. Ive heard a number of "unissued" Motown tracks over the years, and the only studio atmosphere I've ever picked up is a count-in at the start, or an excited "Do it again!" at the end of the take. If there was a false start, a fit of the giggles or a serious bum note, then the engineer would stop the tape, spool back and everyone would start all over again. If the producer [[or possibly the artists) decided a better take could be had, once more the tape was rewound. And, at the end of the session, either the tape was left mounted or it was rewound to the top and stored, ready to be brought out and wound on to the next available spot at the beginning of the next session. 3 track tapes normally had about 30 minutes playing time, so they could hold 10 or 11 typical sixties performances: except for their jazz cuts. Motown seldom broke through the 3-minute barrier. So after 10 or 11 tracks –perhaps every 2 or3 days, depending on how productive the sessions were - the tape was numbered, catalogued and filed, and a fresh one was loaded.

Naturally, many producers will have felt that 2-3 days was too long to wait to listen to their work; consequently the practice developed of copying tracks from the session tapes on to master tapes, from which acetate disks could be cut as and when required. This copying process evolved into an editing and mixing process as time went on; further alterations in sound could be made as test acetates were produced, and many Motown acetates contain hand-written notes of the level settings used to produce that particular disk. The master tape system seems to have come into use around the same time as Motown moved from 2 track to 3 track: the first two master tapes [[DM-00 1 and 002) contain mixes of 2 track recordings, but DM-003 begins with Eddie Hollands "Last night I had a vision" and the B side, which were cut in 3 track around March 1962. The master tape number frequently appears on record labels [[the session tape number never does); it also appears on many acetates, and is a rough and ready Motown fans guide to whether the track is an alternate take or an alternate mix to the version finally released. For full details of how the 13M numbering series works, see the introduction to Reginald Bartletles monumental Off the Record - Motown by Master Number 1959-1989, Volume 1 [[wheres Vol. 2, Reg?); suffice it to say here that not only were DM tape numbers not assigned sequentially, but that moreover tracks were not copied in the order they were recorded, as we can tell from the many instances where recording date and 13M tape number are known.

Do you feel a headache coming on? Feel free to stretch your legs and feed the cat. Were getting there, I promise you. Get a cold beer while you're out there. Now then. A couple of years ago while I was preparing the third edition of my small contribution to the literature, Don't forget the Motor City [[thanks for the publicity, Ed.), I received a letter from someone who'd bought the second edition and thought he had some information that might be of interest to me. For reasons that will become obvious, he will remain anonymous here, and you have only my word for it that he knows what hes talking about : but for what its worth, you have it. What he was able to tell me included session and master tape numbers for individual tracks - not a complete listing, I hasten to say, but a sufficient number of tracks for me to draw a very interesting conclusion. Before passing on to that, and just to complete the advertising spot, my correspondent did say I was welcome to incorporate the info in future editions of DFTMC, and although it was too late in the day to bring in the session tape numbers, I did manage to add a substantial number of Motown recordings that neither I nor anyone I know were previously aware of, and they're all there in the third edition. Lets just hope they all still exist, and are in a much better condition that the last track on the Amos Milburn CD mentioned above.

Lets just take another look at the the listing for Side 1 of disk JD 084: 1. Im gonna tell my mama [[#3084-07) Amos Milburn 2. It took a long time baby [[#3084-08) Amos Milburn 3. One Scotch, one Bourbon, one Beer [[#3085-01) Amos Milbum 4. Timbuktu [[#3085-02) The Groove Makers The information my correspondent furnished me with enables me to tell you with some certainty that the number in brackets refers to the session tape number. So "Im gonna tell my mama" was recorded on 3 track session tape number 084, track T[[ And after thirty-three years, its finally appeared on the Amos Milburn CD, and very good it is too - better than the awful jam of "Money" which came out on the album but which Motown wisely decided to leave off the CD). Well, Im really glad to know that, I hear you murmur to yourself, as you rip this page out of the magazine preparatory to staggering off to the outside privy with it. But stay a moment, smooth out the page and look again. Tape 084 track 7 is followed by tape 084 track 8, which is followed by tape 085 tracks 1 and 2; flip the record and you find tape 085 tracks 3 to 6. Furthermore, all the disks show tape/track numbers in order. And finally, the tracks run in order from disk to disk [[you have to be prepared to believe that "JD 1 2V on the listing is a mistyping for "JD 13 Y to accept that, but having seen the listings for many more of these disks than appeared in the original advertisement, and bearing in mind the other numerous misty pings of song and artist name that occur in all the listings, 1 personally am prepared to believe it). And what that adds up to, taken together with the knowledge that "Mastered by George Fowler appears on most of the disk labels, is the supposition that it was Mr Fowlers responsibility at Motown to transcribe ALL the Hitsville session tapes to acetate disks, and that the complete series of J13 disks would comprise a complete history of Motown recordings from at least late 1960 [[J1)007 contains Mary Wells first record) to late 1964 QD273 contains Junior Walkers "Shotgun").

Well, thats the story, But since no-one likes a smartass, and since there may be some really serious spotters out there who already knew all that, or else have been following me from the start eagle-eyed, with all the relevant material spread out around them [[you must have a big living room), Id better make a confession. The draft of this article was written before the issue of the Amos Milburn CD, to which this rewrite makes frequent reference. And in the booklet accompanying the CD, it is clearly stated that It took a long time baby" [[actually Its a long long time") and "One Scotch, one Bourbon, one Beer were recorded at Session #217, on the 7th November 1962, and "Im gonna tell my mama" was recorded at Session #218, on the 8th November 1962. Yet "I'm gonna tell my mama" appears on session tape 084, and "One Scotch on tape 085. Oh well. You go figure it out. Im off to check the session dates on the Beatles "Anthology .

Keith Hughes March 1996

[Roger Polhill]

Thank you woodward very informative and from dearly missed Keith.
Did you get the Marv Johnson live tracks from the fairly recent "Soul Of America London 1966-72" CD?

[mysterysinger]

Wow, what a great article - I never thought I'd see reference to Ian Allan ABCs on the Motown Forum. There's so much of fascination there and it's bound to get me scurrying off to look at my Amos Milburn CDs and Reg Bartlette's book on master numbers. If all recordings were transferred to acetate that would be like a sonic card system for Motown recordings of that era. You can see that Amos Milburn CD here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cookep...77720327282494

The period concerned would also contain all the recordings from the Earl King & Co sessions at Motown.

As an aside - and I'm thinking as much about the card system used in LA - how would they have kept tabs on all the unreleased music - stuff they hadn't included on official releases as yet but probably good enough to include on a future release? Next album maybe or just kept as pending tracks for later. Could there have been good tracks simply forgotten about?

[mysterysinger]

"the French outlet for Motown in the sixties also had access to details of the session musicians, and frequently printed them"

The reference in Keith Hughes' article to French releases printing names of session musicians chimes with this post from a short time ago and "The Big Big Sound" French release.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...ight=MUSICIANS