Jimmy Mack by Martha & Vandellas comment

[woodward]

I was listening to my Watchout CD tonight for the first in some time and I was a little confused by the version of Jimmy Mack that it included. I honestly did not like the version compared to the normal version. It was entirely different and one that in my record buying days of 45's, I would not have bought it. In looking it up on the DFTMC site, I discovered that this specific recording was the LP version from 6/18/64. The normal successful version was the 45 version from 1/17/67.

Just wondering what anyone else thinks of the earlier version.

[reese]

Both versions are good but I probably like the earlier version a wee bit more. It was the first version I ever heard. I didn't hear the hit single version until I bought the ANTHOLOGY album and was totally surprised.

[mysterysinger]

The 45 version is much punchier and is by far my preferred version - and when you put "Third Finger, Left Hand" on the b' side it's a wonderful single. However, "Jimmy Mack" has some beautiful chords which are more apparent in the LP version. So I do listen to both at times.

[Motown Eddie]

I love the '67 single version of "Jimmy Mack". It was the one that I heard when it was a smash hit back then. The stereo LP version included on Watchout just doesn't cut it for me. I also like the stereo remix of the single version from The Motown Box [and Martha & The Vandellas' Complete Singles Collection].

[Stax_of_Motown]

I like both versions but personally prefer the earlier stereo version being much softer and melodic. I'd never heard this version until I bought Watchout some years ago and was quite taken aback [[pleasantly) by the difference. This goes against the grain as I usually prefer the "punchier" versions of songs.

[BayouMotownMan]

Many years ago when Martha and her sisters were appearing in Biloxi, I spent a lot of time backstage with them. I brought up Jimmy Mack to Martha. She remembered all the details so well. Martha's memory is astounding, you can name any song she recorded, even if it was never released and she can sing a few bars from it.

She said she recorded the original Jimmy Mack around the same time she recorded Dancing In The Street. Billie Jean Brown was in charge of the catalog and often presented selected tracks at the weekly Quality Control meeting if the producers were unable to attend. HDH was so wildly busy during this time that they would sometimes miss a meeting. The stories vary, but for whatever reason Jimmy Mack didn't get presented at any meeting.

We are now in 1966 and Martha's career began fading a bit after Nowhere To Run. HDH gave her I'm Ready For Love and as it was becoming a national best-seller, Gordy went to Brian Holland and said he needed a follow up...fast. All they had was the old Jimmy Mack, so he played it for Gordy. This was the stereo jazz version on the Watchout lp. Gordy was livid that the track was never presented at a meeting and he scolded Billie Jean Brown. He told Brian to update the track. Martha said she was called in one cold winter day to re-record the song, which was not anything new for her at Motown. When she walked into the studio she saw Brian Holland in the producers booth with a set of headphones on, jumping up and down on a board on the floor. This produced that heavy thunderclap sound that we heard on songs like Where Did Our Love Go, and Baby Love. She laughed and said she thought he'd finally lost his mind. In any event she did her vocal, the Vandellas backing track was used on the new recording, and the song was rushed out as the single hit we all bought in 1967. It wasnt until Andy Skurow and friends at Universal mixed a version of this great track in the early 2000s that we finally got a stereo version of what the hit single sounded like.

[Boogiedown]

Many years ago when Martha and her sisters were appearing in Biloxi, I spent a lot of time backstage with them. I brought up Jimmy Mack to Martha. She remembered all the details so well. Martha's memory is astounding, you can name any song she recorded, even if it was never released and she can sing a few bars from it.

She said she recorded the original Jimmy Mack around the same time she recorded Dancing In The Street. Billie Jean Brown was in charge of the catalog and often presented selected tracks at the weekly Quality Control meeting if the producers were unable to attend. HDH was so wildly busy during this time that they would sometimes miss a meeting. The stories vary, but for whatever reason Jimmy Mack didn't get presented at any meeting.

We are now in 1966 and Martha's career began fading a bit after Nowhere To Run. HDH gave her I'm Ready For Love and as it was becoming a national best-seller, Gordy went to Brian Holland and said he needed a follow up...fast. All they had was the old Jimmy Mack, so he played it for Gordy. This was the stereo jazz version on the Watchout lp. Gordy was livid that the track was never presented at a meeting and he scolded Billie Jean Brown. He told Brian to update the track. Martha said she was called in one cold winter day to re-record the song, which was not anything new for her at Motown. When she walked into the studio she saw Brian Holland in the producers booth with a set of headphones on, jumping up and down on a board on the floor. This produced that heavy thunderclap sound that we heard on songs like Where Did Our Love Go, and Baby Love. She laughed and said she thought he'd finally lost his mind. In any event she did her vocal, the Vandellas backing track was used on the new recording, and the song was rushed out as the single hit we all bought in 1967. It wasnt until Andy Skurow and friends at Universal mixed a version of this great track in the early 2000s that we finally got a stereo version of what the hit single sounded like.

this is great first-hand sharing! thanks!

[robb_k]

It's VERY unusual for me to like a later Motown recorded version than an earlier one [[especially 1967 over 1964, as 1964 was my favourite Motown recordings year, and my favourite music year [[and, actually, the favourite year of my long life). But I do like the much "punchier" 1967 version much better.

[Sotosound]

It's VERY unusual for me to like a later Motown recorded version than an earlier one [[especially 1967 over 1964, as 1964 was my favourite Motown recordings year, and my favourite music year [[and, actually, the favourite year of my long life). But I do like the much "punchier" 1967 version much better.

Possibly, you like it because it isn't the later version.....

According to "The Complete Motown Singles", the hit version was recorded on 2nd March 1964.

Overdubs, including hand claps [[those that we hear on beats 2 and 4, I suspect, as they sound much too clean and crisp for 1964), were added in 1967 to create the hit version that we all know.

This tallies with the overall sound and feel of the track. The arrangement and the playing, especially the horns, [[upright ?) bass, and drums, have 1964 written all over them, and the slight softness of sound reminds me of those earlier Motown tracks that were recorded onto 3-track tape and bounced down one or more times to create the full and final mix.

[[Is that Pistol on drums, by the way?)

Given the type of material that H-D-H were creating in 1967, there's no way that the hit version of Jimmy Mack was arranged and recorded in 1967. A true 1967 "Jimmy Mack" would have sounded very different and wouldn't have had the "retro" style that we know.

I'd also love to know exactly what tape "parts" Tom Moulton was given to work with when he created his own stereo mix of the hit version for The Motown Box. It must have been a challenging mix.

According to TCMS, the slower stereo mix in the lower key was recorded later in 1964.

[tjl]

We had both versions, and all takes and sessions and pre-stems [[before the stems were made) for that mix. So before the standard mix-down, we had all the parts not mixed down to 3-tracks. We had many sessions [[strings and horns parts, handclap parts, etc) on the two sets on my "Motown: Big Hits and More" and my original "Stereo Motown Box" as is usually 3rd from the previous mixes.

[thanxal]

This is a fascinating conversation. I love the "1967" mix and forgot it was actually recorded in 1964 and only later embellished and released. @Bayou- great "provenance" as they say elsewhere. Of course, our dear departed Motown Johnny [[John Perrone) did an extended remix, which I love.

[Sotosound]

We had both versions, and all takes and sessions and pre-stems [[before the stems were made) for that mix. So before the standard mix-down, we had all the parts not mixed down to 3-tracks. We had many sessions [[strings and horns parts, handclap parts, etc) on the two sets on my "Motown: Big Hits and More" and my original "Stereo Motown Box" as is usually 3rd from the previous mixes.

Many thanks for this Mr L!

[daviddesper]

I can't contribute much to the technological aspects of this discussion, but when I visited the Motown Museum about 12 years ago, the guide tried to demonstrate how the handclaps, footstomps, etc. were created and how the building was perfect for adding that kind of effect.

[paul_nixon]

There appears to be an even EARLIER band track than any released

[Sotosound]

There appears to be an even EARLIER band track than any released

Please tell us more.