Ric - Tic and Golden World 45's

[paul_nixon]

Just wondering if anyone on here has a complete set of these 45's and have digitised them - I'm trying to put together a 'complete Ric Tic and Golden World 45's' set [[just for myself) and I'm a few missing so looking for some help to bridge the gaps.

[Graham Jarvis]

Hi Paul
You already have my details, Tell me which ones you need, the 45 Disc's & or the Titles.
Wingate & Stephanye are also Myto

[paul_nixon]

Hi Paul
You already have my details, Tell me which ones you need, the 45 Disc's & or the Titles.
Wingate & Stephanye are also Myto

Will do let me work them out

[grapevine]

As well as Golden World / Ric-Tic / Stephanye / Wingate label recordings ...here are some more Myto recordings / releases...

Volkano V 5001 B All I Ask Little John & Tony
J&W JW 1000 B Angelina Oh Angelina Stewart Ames
YAN-G 401 A Baby Baby Oh Baby Jimmy Ed Trio
J&W 1001 A Can't Let Go Sue Perrin
J&W 1001 B Clickety-Clack Heart Sue Perrin
Mercury 72474 B Confessin' My Love To You Chalfontes
Deeper In Love Bobby Ward
Star 101 B Don't Say You Love Me Until You Do Holly Maxwell
20 Grand TG503 B Eyeballs Frankie Meadows & Meadowlarks
Groovesville GV 1004 A Friday Night Steve Mancha
Mah's 1037B Fun To Be Young Magic Tones
acetate Girl Have Pity Steve Mancha
Columbia-4 44239 A Givin' Up Your Love Is Like Givin' Up The World Twentie Grans
Groovesville GV 1002 A I Don't Wanna Lose You Steve Mancha
Calla 104 A I Feel Good All Over Betty Lavett
Groovesville GV 1003 A I Must Love You Melvin Davis
Groovesville GV 1002 B I Need To Be Needed Steve Mancha
Volkano V 5004 B I've Cried My Last Tear Bob Santa Marie
I've Got To Find Myself A True Love Dave Hamilton
J&W JW 1000 A King For A Day Stewart Ames
YAN-G 401 B Lips Jimmy Ed Trio
Audrey 100 A Love Hides All Faults Johnnie Mae Matthews
Audrey 100 B Luck Walked Through My Door Johnnie Mae Matthews
Love 101 B My Darlin Diane Lewis
Minit 32013 B My Dear Heart Shawn Robinson
Impact 1007 A Oh How Happy Shades Of Blue
Revilot RV 201 A Our Love Is In The Pocket Darrell Banks
Revilot RV 222 A Our Love Is In The Pocket JJ Barnes
In The Pocket Detroit Strings
Love 101 A Please Let Me Help You Diane Lewis
Standout OT-601 B Strong Foundation Debutantes
A Go Go 345 A Sweet Sweet Kisses Larry Wright
20 Grand TG503 A Tennessee Diesel Frankie Meadows & Meadowlarks
Volkano V 5001 A The Beginning Of The End Little John & Tony
The House That Jack Built JJ Barnes
Mah's M1038 There Is Nothing Better Than Love Magic Tones
Mah's 1037 Together We Shall Overcome Magic Tones
Volkano V 5004 A You And I Bob Santa Maria

Grape

[nsoule]

I have a full run of Golden World and am only missing one of the early/first series Ric-Tics. I don't have them digitized, but I can record any of them if you haven't gotten the sound files you need already.

Dickie & The Ebb Tides on Golden World is a slightly different version than the local Fleetwood version. I wasn't aware of that until I got a copy earlier this year.

[paul_nixon]

Thanks so much everyone still trying to work out the gaps as my tracks are all over the place at the minute but so far Graham J is helping me out no end.

[robb_k]

As well as Golden World / Ric-Tic / Stephanye / Wingate label recordings ...here are some more Myto recordings / releases...

Volkano V 5001 B All I Ask Little John & Tony
J&W JW 1000 B Angelina Oh Angelina Stewart Ames
YAN-G 401 A Baby Baby Oh Baby Jimmy Ed Trio
J&W 1001 A Can't Let Go Sue Perrin
J&W 1001 B Clickety-Clack Heart Sue Perrin
Mercury 72474 B Confessin' My Love To You Chalfontes
Deeper In Love Bobby Ward
Star 101 B Don't Say You Love Me Until You Do Holly Maxwell
20 Grand TG503 B Eyeballs Frankie Meadows & Meadowlarks
Groovesville GV 1004 A Friday Night Steve Mancha
Mah's 1037B Fun To Be Young Magic Tones
acetate Girl Have Pity Steve Mancha
Columbia-4 44239 A Givin' Up Your Love Is Like Givin' Up The World Twentie Grans
Groovesville GV 1002 A I Don't Wanna Lose You Steve Mancha
Calla 104 A I Feel Good All Over Betty Lavett
Groovesville GV 1003 A I Must Love You Melvin Davis
Groovesville GV 1002 B I Need To Be Needed Steve Mancha
Volkano V 5004 B I've Cried My Last Tear Bob Santa Marie
I've Got To Find Myself A True Love Dave Hamilton
J&W JW 1000 A King For A Day Stewart Ames
YAN-G 401 B Lips Jimmy Ed Trio
Audrey 100 A Love Hides All Faults Johnnie Mae Matthews
Audrey 100 B Luck Walked Through My Door Johnnie Mae Matthews
Love 101 B My Darlin Diane Lewis
Minit 32013 B My Dear Heart Shawn Robinson
Impact 1007 A Oh How Happy Shades Of Blue
Revilot RV 201 A Our Love Is In The Pocket Darrell Banks
Revilot RV 222 A Our Love Is In The Pocket JJ Barnes
In The Pocket Detroit Strings
Love 101 A Please Let Me Help You Diane Lewis
Standout OT-601 B Strong Foundation Debutantes
A Go Go 345 A Sweet Sweet Kisses Larry Wright
20 Grand TG503 A Tennessee Diesel Frankie Meadows & Meadowlarks
Volkano V 5001 A The Beginning Of The End Little John & Tony
The House That Jack Built JJ Barnes
Mah's M1038 There Is Nothing Better Than Love Magic Tones
Mah's 1037 Together We Shall Overcome Magic Tones
Volkano V 5004 A You And I Bob Santa Maria

Grape

The Chalfontes 2 Mercury records have always been a quandary for me. I guessed that Dynamic Hitbound Productions was run by Dave Hamilton, or was a partnership between Hamilton and Andre Williams. The one Chalfontes song [[out of 4) that has Myto Music sharing the publishing, with Detroit Sound Music. Doc Kyle's Detroit Sound label was started in 1967, LATER than The Chalfontes 2 Mercury releases, which I believe, were released in late 1965 and early 1966. The first Detroit Sound label with The Sequins' record is listed on Discogs and 45 Cat as 1964. [[But it sounds as if from '65). The Sequins' Detroit Sound record lists a "Taylor" as one of the 2 producers. The 2 Detroit Sound published Chalfontes songs are credited to "Dynamic Hit Bound Productions". The credits listed include B. Sharpley [[real name of Detroit DJ, LeBaron Taylor [[Bill Sharpley) on the non-Myto side. I think Dynamic HitBound Productions is a partnership of LeBaron Taylor and one of the other credited people on the record, and that company's music publishing company seems to have been Detroit Sound Music. Sonny Sanders, who was working for Golden World at that time was the only other name on the NON-Myto shared publishing side. The side on which Myto shared the publishing with Detroit Sound has Don[[Juan) Mancha as the writer. So, apparently Mancha shared the publishing with Taylor, only because Mancha wrote the song. The only other credit on the NON-Myto side was to Sonny Sanders. So, maybe Dynamic Hitbound [[was so similar to Solid Hitbound because Taylor owned it alone, or Taylor was in partnership with Sanders. It's even more complicated than that, because Andre Williams, who produced both sides of the other Chalfontes' Mercury record, had a regular production contract with Mercury records producing records by other Detroit artists [[such as Jimmy Holland and several others), as well as a few Chicago artists. On that other Chalfontes' record, Williams worked with Dave Hamilton on both sides. The music on both was published by Mercury's MRC Music. So it seems likely that Williams was the source of all three of these projects to Mercury [[the 3rd being the unreleased cut by Dave Hamilton listed as being published [[or shared publishing) by Myto on Grape's list? That perhaps was the background instrumental tracks for another Chalfontes' Mercury production? I surmise this, because I don't know of any other connection of Hamilton with either Myto Music, or Mercury Records.

Does anyone here know of any connection Don Mancha had with Golden World? I remember Steve Mancha writing some Myto songs for Don Davis' Groovesville Records 1001-1003, who were published by Myto to pay Wingate for distributing Davis' label, and using Wingate's facilities while Davis was producing and writing for Wingate's artists productions. But, I can't remember ANY credits for Don Mancha on Wingates' labels records. I also can't remember Sonny Sanders partnering with Andre Williams on Mercury any Mercury projects. Sanders could have been the connection with Myto, although he wasn't a writer of the song, only listed as its arranger. And I can't remember ANY connection between Dave Hamilton and Ed Wingate or Golden World. I don't remember ever seeing a D.Hamilton credit on a Golden World/Ric-tic/Wingate or related record. It might have been confusing with ALL 3 Hamilton Brothers also working there.

Can anyone tell us what source of information or the form of the documentation that leads to Dave Hamilton being credit with a Myto published song? I'm assuming it wasn't a commercial pressing of a vinyl 45 record, otherwise, its label and catalogue number would have been listed. I assume it was either a demo acetate, or among Myto Music's list of songs published including its writers, or a studio vinyl demo.

Maybe Graham Finch can help us out with this question?

[grapevine]

And I can't remember ANY connection between Dave Hamilton and Ed Wingate or Golden World. I don't remember ever seeing a D.Hamilton credit on a Golden World/Ric-tic/Wingate or related record. It might have been confusing with ALL 3 Hamilton Brothers also working there.

Can anyone tell us what source of information or the form of the documentation that leads to Dave Hamilton being credit with a Myto published song? I'm assuming it wasn't a commercial pressing of a vinyl 45 record, otherwise, its label and catalogue number would have been listed. I assume it was either a demo acetate, or among Myto Music's list of songs published including its writers, or a studio vinyl demo.

...all from the Motown bible ...DFTMC...







...the Chalfontes' Confessin' My Love To You is featured in DFTMC too as a Myto recording ...as seen here...



Grape

[robb_k]

Thanks Grape! I have all those records and Dave Hamilton's Dancers. I am old, and now, even my long-term memory is going away. I forgot the Little Ann record, and the credit on The Dramatics record - and so, Dave Hamilton's association with Wingate's operations. So, the unidentified singer on the Dave Hamilton produced instrumental tracks might have been Little Ann. Of course, the Chalfontes' Mercury 72474 B-side cut would be considered a Myto published song, by definition, because they shared the publishing. I wonder who "Detroit Sound Music" was. It had to be Dynamic Hit Bound Productions, which had to be either LeBaron Taylor, alone, or HIM together with a partner. That partner is what I'm curious about, IF there was a partnership.

Plus I'm curious as to Who sponsored The Chalfontes' Mercury projects [[Andre Williams, Dave Hamilton, or LeBaron Taylor, or some combination of them and/or including Sonny Sanders and/or Don Mancha.

And I'd also like to know who The Chalfontes were [[group members), manager, and about Andre Williams relationship with Mercury, and IF that had anything to do with Bob Bateman's production deal with Mercury. I think those times either coincided exactly, or overlapped significantly [[possibly starting at the same time. Perhaps Mercury hired Bateman to manage their new Soul Music office in New York, producing records emulating "The Motown/Detroit Sound", with Andre Williams coming in in a "packaged deal" as Bateman's partner, to run a similar production office out of Mercury's Chicago Office, producing Chicago and Detroit artists, emulating "The Motown/Detroit Sound?

[mysterysinger]

According to Discogs The Chalfontes were a Detroit, USA group managed by LeBaron Taylor and named after a street in Detroit he liked the sound of, but no one could say it properly, so they had to explain how to say it on the record labels.

[robb_k]

According to Discogs The Chalfontes were a Detroit, USA group managed by LeBaron Taylor and named after a street in Detroit he liked the sound of, but no one could say it properly, so they had to explain how to say it on the record labels.

Thanks for the information that Taylor was The Chalfontes' manager. So, Taylor went to Andre Williams to get his group a contract with a national label. I bet they recorded it at United Sound. Or, maybe Golden World, and that's where the connection to Myto Music came in. Surely their 2nd record with the Myto published song, was recorded at Golden World. Andre Williams had opened up a new sub-office in Mercury's Chicago main headquarters, to produce "Detroit Sound productions", and probably already had a small office in Detroit. He needed to scrape up a Detroit unit of regular free-lance production people. LeBaron Taylor came with The Chalfontes. Williams recruited Sonny Sanders [[from Golden World), and free-lance writer/producer, free-lancer Dave Hamilton who he may have also met at Golden World, or just approached him as an unattached free-lancer, like he did with Don Juan Mancha. I seem to faintly remember that Mancha worked on another Mercury production, or 2 with Williams. Many of the Detroit and Chicago productions during Williams' time at Mercury were placed on Blue Rock, which was started to be a label dedicated to showcase the burgeoning Chicago and Detroit Soul Sounds". But several were also placed on Philips, and some even made it to the parent, Mercury label, such as ex-Motowner, Herman Griffin. But some were also placed on Smash and even their Jazz label, Limelight Records.

By 1967, both Bateman in New York, and Williams in Chicago, were gone from Mercury. Giving more credence to the theory that Bateman and Williams came in on a package deal. Their being dumped [[or having their contracts not renewed) was no surprise, as NONE of their projects produced national, or even regional hits, and only relatively few charted at all. That was despite picking up such well-respected artists as Johnnie Mae Matthews, Sir Mack Rice, Otis Leavill, Luther Ingram, and Timothy Wilson.

[jsmith]

As Robb knows, lots of GW / Ric Tic info has been put up recently on a thread on Soul Source.
Lots of outside acts cut in GW studio. A Pittsburgh group [[Four + 1 -- led by Chuck Corby) went to GW in early summer 66. They had brought 2 original songs with them & bumped into Gene Redd in the studio's reception [[he was working @ GW at the time). They sang the songs for him, he was impressed and took them into the studio to cut them both [[+ 2 old standards). He then took the tape with the finished tracks on them [[including backing vocals from the Fantastic Four) to New York.
The group returned to Pittsburgh but Chuck Corby panicked when he had heard nothing from Gene a month later. So he approached a local music man & was sent to re-cut the songs in a NY studio. Just days later the 2 tracks were released on a Sound label 45 and then picked up for national distribution by Veep in August 66.
No one knows what became of Chuck's groups GW tape of those same songs. LOST FOREVER it seems, as Gene Redd was almost immediately hired as an A&R guy to work with the Platters on their "With This Ring" / 'Going Back To Detroit' project.

[woodward]

In the fall of 1966 saw Michigan Chronicle reporting that Motown had purchased the copyright catalog of rival publishing company Myto Music.

[robb_k]

In the fall of 1966 saw Michigan Chronicle reporting that Motown had purchased the copyright catalog of rival publishing company Myto Music.

Yes, that was included in Wingate's purchase of Golden World's catalogue, master tapes, current record stock, and Golden World Recording Studio.

[danman869]

I wish more of the Golden World catalogue would've been able to see the light of day in the reissue era that has since passed. Especially if those tapes were remastered? Oh....!

Also curious about something that just came to mind: We know that Jobete was named after Berry's children [Joy, Berry IV, and Terry], but was there any similar story with Myto Music? Not being an actual word, I'm curious if there was any meaning to "Myto."

[robb_k]

I wish more of the Golden World catalogue would've been able to see the light of day in the reissue era that has since passed. Especially if those tapes were remastered? Oh....!

Also curious about something that just came to mind: We know that Jobete was named after Berry's children [Joy, Berry IV, and Terry], but was there any similar story with Myto Music? Not being an actual word, I'm curious if there was any meaning to "Myto."

Attachment 21658
Yes, you certainly are on the right track. "Myto" stood for "My Tony", who was, if I remember correctly, owner JoAnne Bratton's first son, Tony. And Ric-Tic Records was named after her second son, Ricky.

[woodward]

I had always wished and hoped that a set patterned after the Complete Motown Singles would be released, one for Golden World and the other for Ric Tic, but as everyone knows it just never happened. Since we lost our esteemed Keith Hughes, we will be lucky if anything is ever released again from the archives. Keith did leave a legacy for which we should all be grateful.

[reachoutuk]

Attachment 21658
Yes, you certainly are on the right track. "Myto" stood for "My Tony", who was, if I remember correctly, owner JoAnne Bratton's first son, Tony. And Ric-Tic Records was named after her second son, Ricky.

I have just finished listening to Ric-Tic Relics Vol.1 on Soul World SW 103 and have now moved on to Ric-Tic Relics Vol.2 on Soul World SW 104 and the booklet provides a slightly different explanation “A new publishing company was formed in the name of Myto which was [JoAnne] Bratton’s aunt MYrtle and cousin TOni.”

I assume that this is not correct and I am certainly not going to doubt robb_k's in-depth knowledge!!

[robb_k]

I have just finished listening to Ric-Tic Relics Vol.1 on Soul World SW 103 and have now moved on to Ric-Tic Relics Vol.2 on Soul World SW 104 and the booklet provides a slightly different explanation “A new publishing company was formed in the name of Myto which was [JoAnne] Bratton’s aunt MYrtle and cousin TOni.”

I assume that this is not correct and I am certainly not going to doubt robb_k's in-depth knowledge!!

To be honest, I'm not sure which one of those rumours was true. I've heard both of them many years ago. One of them, or maybe even both, might have been guesses, based on knowing that she had close relatives with those names. Both sources were people who usually know what they're talking about. However, I think BOTH are based on hearsay. But, given that we KNOW that Ric-Tic was named after her 2nd son, and we know her 1st son was named Tony, it seems logical that the other one was named after her other son. I have to admit that I don't know for sure. And that information being printed on "Ric-Tic being Relics" seems like it is likely to be correct. But, that could havre been read off an Internet or trade magazine article,. which also have been known to have printed inaccurate "information" [[even if lots of people always heard or read that. The original source could have been a "Guess" by people who knew her and her family, but only guessed the inspiration for the name choice. It would be best to trace the source to JoAnne, or Ed, or one of JoAnne's children.

[Graham Jarvis]

Some More "Myto" records [maybe some already]

* Robert Ward "Deeper In Love" Ric-Tic 1968 Unissued until 1995 [Myto]
* The Players [Aka Twentie Grans] Giving Up Your Love [Is Like Giving Up The World] 45 Columbia 44239 1967 [Myto]
* The Players [[Aka Twentie Grans) "Guilty" 45 Columbia 44239 1967 [Myto]
* Holly Maxwell "Don't Say You Love Until You Do" 45 Star 101 1966 [Myto]
* Rare Earth "Stop On Site [[SOS)" Unissued "Myto"
* Debutantes "Strong Foundation" 45 Standout 601 1967 [Myto
* Larry Wright "Sweet Sweet Kisses" 45 A-Go-Go 345 1965 [Myto]
* Frankie Meadows & Meadows "Tennessee Diesel" 45 "20 Grand 503 1965 [Myto]
* San Remo Strings "I Have Faith In You" Unissued Ric-Tic 1966 [Myto]