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  1. #1

    SOMEDAY Doesn't Hit.....

    In an alternate universe, SOMEDAY doesn't hit #1, or even come close to the Top 10.

    1) Does BG send Diana out with a limp?
    2) Is a 2nd single pulled from "CREAM"? Perhaps "THE BEGINNING OF THE END"?
    3) Does BG pair the DRATS with A&S and "THESE THINGS" become their next release? Or maybe "AIN'T"?

    This isn't a discussion to question SOMEDAY or how it was the perfect sendoff and things went as they should, but more of WHAT IF THEY DIDNT.

  2. #2
    1) I think Berry would have postponed the farewell until Diana had a great send-off hit.

    2) THE BEGINNING OF THE END had already been a b-side so I doubt they would have gone back to it.

    3) Berry probably would have gathered the Clan together and sequestered them until they came up with a big hit, similar to what happened with LOVE CHILD.

  3. #3
    looking at the data i have on what else was being worked on in the studio, you could have maybe taken one of the initial Jean tracks and pulled her vocals. replaced them with Diana's

    I think there are some great tunes from the late DRATS era, even if the lps seemed a bit of a jumbled mess.

    Discover me
    You're gonna hear from me
    Then we can try it again
    take a closer look at me
    wait a minute before you leave

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    looking at the data i have on what else was being worked on in the studio, you could have maybe taken one of the initial Jean tracks and pulled her vocals. replaced them with Diana's

    I think there are some great tunes from the late DRATS era, even if the lps seemed a bit of a jumbled mess.

    Discover me
    You're gonna hear from me
    Then we can try it again
    take a closer look at me
    wait a minute before you leave
    That said, could they have jumped back to LET THE SUNSHINE IN or even LOVE CHILD for a single release AFTER Someday?

  5. #5
    I would have went with These Things...or maybe add Mary and Cindy to the faster version of Keep an Eye...Something on My Mind...maybe? But I Love You More? I don't hear DR singing anything else from Right On....Mountain was definitely a standout, and I would put the bank on BG wanting to keep it for a DR solo....

  6. #6
    Some juicy details are being ignored in these scenarios. The Ashford & Simpson pairing only came about because Berry didn’t like the Bones Howe tracks. Shouldn’t we be theorizing the next single would’ve been Time And Love? Also, Diana basically worked as a Supreme until her anniversary date of signing with Motown so if they needed to keep throwing singles out there would Diana have to have stayed contractually an additional year as a Supreme? The butterfly effect would go crazy after that possibly erasing Bob Silberstein since maybe Diana would’ve been stuck out in Vegas singing rather than shopping in L.A. so they never meet, baby Rhonda from being conceived because maybe the one of the road coupling with Barry doesn’t happen, Jean from possibly ever joining the group, and maybe even shifting the making of Lady Sings The Blues around to a different year. It’s all kind of fun to play with but I’m glad it all went down the way it did.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    In an alternate universe, SOMEDAY doesn't hit #1, or even come close to the Top 10.

    1) Does BG send Diana out with a limp?
    2) Is a 2nd single pulled from "CREAM"? Perhaps "THE BEGINNING OF THE END"?
    3) Does BG pair the DRATS with A&S and "THESE THINGS" become their next release? Or maybe "AIN'T"?

    This isn't a discussion to question SOMEDAY or how it was the perfect sendoff and things went as they should, but more of WHAT IF THEY DIDNT.
    Knowing Berry Gordy, he would've kept releasing singles under the DRATS name until they had a #1 hit. Also he would've put together he favorite writers/producers [ala 'The Clan' or 'The Corporation'] to come up with that #1 smash hit to launch Diana Ross' solo career.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Eddie View Post
    Knowing Berry Gordy, he would've kept releasing singles under the DRATS name until they had a #1 hit. Also he would've put together he favorite writers/producers [ala 'The Clan' or 'The Corporation'] to come up with that #1 smash hit to launch Diana Ross' solo career.
    I actually don't think he would have. He wanted her out of the group as soon as possible so if "Someday" didn't hit and I think he still would have pulled her out at the start of the new year/decade like planned.

    If there was ever to be a second single from Cream of The Crop, it was "You Gave Me Love." It had very strong potential and I think would have done fairly well on the charts - much better than "The Composer" and "No Matter What Sign."

  9. #9
    I think they missed a great opportunity in having "Love Child" being that send off single for Diana that she needed. And the TCB special could have been marketed as a final appearance special for her.

    I think by the end of '68, Diana was ready to go out as a solo.

  10. #10
    Their contract was expiring Jan 13..
    It was over.

  11. #11
    It's funny but I think in January the group was going to split regardless. I do remember "The Young Folks" which was the B side hitting the charts as well. I actually remember Berry being quoted as saying that he needed to pull Diana out of this d$%$ group.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by floyjoy678 View Post
    I think they missed a great opportunity in having "Love Child" being that send off single for Diana that she needed. And the TCB special could have been marketed as a final appearance special for her.

    I think by the end of '68, Diana was ready to go out as a solo.
    i think 1968 was still a bit premature. during 69 the live shows became more intricate with the addition of Let The Sunshine In which had her going out into the audience, a totally new gimmick. GIT might not be a fan favorite but it gave her a second major spotlight tv special and the opportunity to be the "mistress of the ceremonies." she twice hosted the Hollywood Palace. made her solo appearances on Like Hep and Laugh In.

    clearly she had been hugely successful up to and through Love Child and TCB. but she hadn't really elevated to "superstar" status yet. even if her name was singled out, she was still "a supreme." But the 1969 work really helped her become more of a entertainment personality. she had more time to interact with hosts and guests and other celebrities.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I actually don't think he would have. He wanted her out of the group as soon as possible so if "Someday" didn't hit and I think he still would have pulled her out at the start of the new year/decade like planned.
    According to the entry for 'No Matter What Sign You Are' from The Complete Motown Singles, Vol. 9, Gordy exclaimed at a meeting of producers and writers that "I want Diana out of this group and we got to have a #1 hit or she ain't goin' nowhere". That's why I feel if 'Someday We'll Be Together' had flopped, BG would've put together another group of writers & producers to Give Diana that #1 hit [and they would keep using the 'Supremes' name for her singles in the meantime].

  14. #14
    That’s if she left in 69
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    Their contract was expiring Jan 13..
    It was over.

  15. #15
    if Someday hadn't gone #1 but had gone Top 10, i think Berry would have moved forward with Diana's exit. If Someday had only gone to something embarrassing like 32, then i think Diana would have stayed.

  16. #16
    originally ,Reflections was going to be a farewell single , with the departure of FB and HDH.
    most felt the Supremes would not recover. i think it was DR who wanted to stay until the contract expired. there were brief talks in regards to FB coming back as CB contract wasnt finalized but by years end, The Hits album was released to close out the era, ....h CB stayed, FB was definitely out and the group moved forward with the plan to move DR out as well.
    personally i think the Supremes would have been more successful if BG wasnt envolved ,but thats my opinion.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    originally ,Reflections was going to be a farewell single , with the departure of FB and HDH.
    most felt the Supremes would not recover. i think it was DR who wanted to stay until the contract expired. there were brief talks in regards to FB coming back as CB contract wasnt finalized but by years end, The Hits album was released to close out the era, ....h CB stayed, FB was definitely out and the group moved forward with the plan to move DR out as well.
    personally i think the Supremes would have been more successful if BG wasnt envolved ,but thats my opinion.
    i don't think Reflections was ever really considered a farewell single. the story sort of goes that Berry had told Diana that if she really wanted to leave the group then for a solo career, he'd support her. but his idea was to stay with the group, rename it and build her up within that framework.

    My guess is if he really said this to her, i doubt he meant the first part. if Diana had replied "ok yes, i want out of the group" i think he would have really continued to push her to his idea instead. and he probably knew he had enough influence on her that he could get her to see his way.

    so i don't think there was ever really the idea to lift her from the Sups in 67.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenpwood View Post
    Some juicy details are being ignored in these scenarios. The Ashford & Simpson pairing only came about because Berry didn’t like the Bones Howe tracks. Shouldn’t we be theorizing the next single would’ve been Time And Love? Also, Diana basically worked as a Supreme until her anniversary date of signing with Motown so if they needed to keep throwing singles out there would Diana have to have stayed contractually an additional year as a Supreme? The butterfly effect would go crazy after that possibly erasing Bob Silberstein since maybe Diana would’ve been stuck out in Vegas singing rather than shopping in L.A. so they never meet, baby Rhonda from being conceived because maybe the one of the road coupling with Barry doesn’t happen, Jean from possibly ever joining the group, and maybe even shifting the making of Lady Sings The Blues around to a different year. It’s all kind of fun to play with but I’m glad it all went down the way it did.
    I could see the Bones material potentially being used for a final Sup single. time and love or stoney end. I don't think berry canned that material because he hated it. but because his instincts told him it wasn't the perfect fit for the LAUNCH of a new career. for an existing entity like the Supremes, it could have made a great update to their sound, style and image.

    they had already been testing some things where they ditched the gowns and formality on stage. maybe they could have played around with that too. create a bit more of a fresh image.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    I could see the Bones material potentially being used for a final Sup single. time and love or stoney end. ...
    The late MOSOGOTAM [an SD member and poster] put together a wonderful mix of Diana and Jean doing TIME & LOVE [nice video too]


  20. #20
    I've heard that story too about Reflections possibly being the final single. But I think it all depended on whether or not it worked out with Cindy. They kept Flo's departure hushed so it wasn't too noticeable and Cindy worked out in their favor. Although it's interesting to note that the press kept writing about Flo missing the Hollywood Bowl appearance and she denied she was leaving the group. Then she when actually did leave, it was a month before it was reported anywhere.

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