Simulated Stereo tracks on UK lps

[BayouMotownMan]

I always enjoy the UK lps because they usually add more selections and such. One thing I noticed is sometimes they will take a mono track and claim that it is "electronically enhanced for stereo effect." I love the sound quality of these but does anyone know how they did this? I have the Disco Classics tracks where I Gotta Let You Go, I Miss You Baby, Take Me In Your Arms and Danger: Heartbreak Dead Ahead are done this way

[milven]

I don't know how it is done, but I am so glad that there are now ways to convert mono into stereo. There are people on YouTube that must have amazing equipment and skills and they take songs from the fifties and convert them to high quality stereo. I find it amazing and also wonder how they do it since back then, I think much or all music was recorded live on one track. Whenever I find one of these gems, i download it and put it on my favorites playlist replacing the mono version

I have no idea how they do it, I just know that I love that they can do it.

We have techies here. Maybe one will jump in and explain

[thanxal]

I always enjoy the UK lps because they usually add more selections and such. One thing I noticed is sometimes they will take a mono track and claim that it is "electronically enhanced for stereo effect." I love the sound quality of these but does anyone know how they did this? I have the Disco Classics tracks where I Gotta Let You Go, I Miss You Baby, Take Me In Your Arms and Danger: Heartbreak Dead Ahead are done this way

It varies by company, sound engineer, etc, of course, however...

It is not possible to create a true "stereo" track from original mono sources. Recording in true stereo separates instruments, vocalists, into channels. The various instruments/vocals are separated into a minimum of two channels. For example, if you listen to the Supremes Come and Get These Memories, you can hear Mary and Florence on one channel. If you turn the balance to the other channel, you can't hear them. Those channels are then "merged" into one track. Your equipment [turntable, tape deck, CD player] interprets these channels and sends them to the correct side [left, right] speaker in your system.

Mono tracks were recorded using only one channel. Once recorded it is impossible to separate back out individual instruments/voices and create a true two [[or more) channel track.

In the 1950s when vinyl LPs replaced shellac 78s, the big companies were selling the enhanced sound quality of vinyl but had dated and heavily used masters and mothers from the recording sessions of the 78s - they sounded bad. So Victor [RCA Victor after 1943] added an "orthophonic effect" to its reissues of 78s when putting them on vinyl. Decca also did this, to terrible effect. Of the big three, Columbia did this the least, although I have found a few. Verve, a jazz centric company, steadfastly refused to do this since the founder was particular, but when bought by MGM in 1963, they did started doing this.

There are variations and shadings, but this is largely done by adding "reverb". This translates to your ears as an "echo". Generally this means taking the mono track, cloning it, and slightly changing the speed of the clone [usually in the millisecond range]. The engineer then feeds the original track to the one channel of your sound system and the reverb track to the other. Human ears are sensitive enough to hear the change, but most average consumers can't tell that they hearing the same exact track just milliseconds apart. It "simulates" stereo. Decca used this term "Simulated Stereo" after passing off reprocessed mono recordings as "Stereo". They and other companies were sued for misrepresenting these old mono track as stereo.

Many audiophiles consider this a terrible sound experience. Some like it because it adds depth to old recordings. It is a personal choice.

My other music obsession is hot Jazz from the 1930s. I obsessively seek out original recordings WITHOUT such reprocessing. If I want to enhance these track, I like to do so on my own and also have the original. Some audiophiles get religious about original sound. I think it is fine for companies to reprocess since some people like it and can't do it themselves. My only preference is that they label the recordings accurately and provide access to the original tracks.

Hope this helps. Again, it's personal choice so there is no correct answer to reprocess vs. don't reprocess.

[BritishTony]

I showed a letter about this last year from Motown UK. Thread titled Mono vs Stereo. I can't manage to attach that thread to this but I'm not very tech savvy. I found MotownBayouMan's reply particularly interesting.

[milven]

...It is not possible to create a true "stereo" track from original mono sources. Recording in true stereo separates instruments, vocalists, into channels. The various instruments/vocals are separated into a minimum of two channels....

Mono tracks were recorded using only one channel. Once recorded it is impossible to separate back out individual instruments/voices and create a true two [[or more) channel track.

Thanks for your very informative post. I do remember some of those enhanced and simulated stereo recordings that were released in the late fifties and early sixties. Ugh.

But now I am finding some very good stereo versions of mono songs of the fifties on YouTube. They are done in DES STEREO [whatever that is ]

What is DES? I just read that an oldies label - Eric - has released a CD of old instrumentals in this format. My untrained ears like the sound. I was wondering what your trained ears think of it and wonder how a mono recording from the early fifties can sound so full and separated

[danman869]

What is DES?

Milven, I googled and found the explanation of DES--on Eric Record's website:

https://www.ericrecords.com/des_explan-htf17.html

[milven]

Milven, I googled and found the explanation of DES--on Eric Record's website:

https://www.ericrecords.com/des_explan-htf17.html

Thank you. They give a very understandable explanation.

The computer age has introduced highly sophisticated sound processing software that enables patient and expert audio engineers to create new, authentic stereo mixes from original mono recordings.

The most advanced technique and the one that usually produces the most satisfactory results is called DES [[Digitally Extracted Stereo). Because most instruments and vocals often occupy fairly narrow, specific audio frequency ranges, it’s now possible in some cases to isolate guitars, drums, bass, strings, etc., and “extract” these elements into separate tracks which are then remixed into stereo. A well-done DES stereo mix will be indistinguishable from an original multi-track stereo mix and offers audiences a fresh, exciting listening experience, allowing them to enjoy their favorite songs in a way never before possible.

They make it sound simple, but it goes on to say that the process needs expert equipment, expert engineers, much patience and plenty of time to make it happen.

I am impressed. I am familiar with ERIC and their oldies catalogue. But I did not know that they now have the ability to turn mono into stereo and are releasing it for sale. Your link shows that they have an impressive catalogue. Gotta put on my headphones and listen to some of it. I even found the first record that i ever received as a child way back in the late forties. It was given to me by Santa Claus. Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer by Gene Autry on 78 rpm.

I'm gonna email Santa and see if he will send me a stereo version for Christmas.

Thanks all for your info on this subject. I love finding the oldies that i grew up with in good quality stereo that keeps the integrity of the original recording, thanks to tech and expert engineers. Sure beats that fake enhanced stereo that they tried to pass off as real years ago

[thanxal]

Thank you. They give a very understandable explanation.

The computer age has introduced highly sophisticated sound processing software that enables patient and expert audio engineers to create new, authentic stereo mixes from original mono recordings.

The most advanced technique and the one that usually produces the most satisfactory results is called DES [[Digitally Extracted Stereo). Because most instruments and vocals often occupy fairly narrow, specific audio frequency ranges, it’s now possible in some cases to isolate guitars, drums, bass, strings, etc., and “extract” these elements into separate tracks which are then remixed into stereo. A well-done DES stereo mix will be indistinguishable from an original multi-track stereo mix and offers audiences a fresh, exciting listening experience, allowing them to enjoy their favorite songs in a way never before possible.

They make it sound simple, but it goes on to say that the process needs expert equipment, expert engineers, much patience and plenty of time to make it happen.

I am impressed. I am familiar with ERIC and their oldies catalogue. But I did not know that they now have the ability to turn mono into stereo and are releasing it for sale. Your link shows that they have an impressive catalogue. Gotta put on my headphones and listen to some of it. I even found the first record that i ever received as a child way back in the late forties. It was given to me by Santa Claus. Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer by Gene Autry on 78 rpm.

I'm gonna email Santa and see if he will send me a stereo version for Christmas.

Thanks all for your info on this subject. I love finding the oldies that i grew up with in good quality stereo that keeps the integrity of the original recording, thanks to tech and expert engineers. Sure beats that fake enhanced stereo that they tried to pass off as real years ago

Thanks Milven. I've heard this type of reprocessing before and it hasn't been very good due to bleed over. Essentially, the sound bleeds between the extracted wavelengths. That is sometimes covered with other digital effects added later that then mute the original elements. I'm curious enough to buy this and see if they've improved on past attempts by others.