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  1. #1

    What is going on with the FLOs?

    I have noticed that Lynda Laurence was back in the FLOS for a concert and they reported that the promoters wanted the members from the RTL tour. Fine, I get that. Still, the next show at Scherrie's daughters venue also had Lynda and no Susaye. They didn't mention if Susaye was unavailable or working on another project, as they all do other things. Interesting.

    There was also an exchange between Rick Giantos [[sp) and Susaye where he said he prefers the group with Lynda. Susaye shot back that no one asked him and his opinion didn't matter. I felt some tension brewing.

    I was wondering if the group was having issues. They don't seem to have any bookings, so to speak. I was hoping that Scherrie was healthy and that wasn't the reason. Still, there may be some inner tensions that may be coming to the surface. Susaye posts a lot of the New Age sentiments and it seems lately they are about the future.

    Just wondering what the actual status is regarding the Former Supremes?

  2. #2
    the only thing i heard was a gig came in that requested Lynda in the group as they wanted the 2 Supremes who sang with Diana Ross.
    why not all 4 then? kinda strange request.
    but i think Scherrie did also state Susaye had a solo gig and wasnt available/ Lynda is retired but stated she would always jump in if needed.
    as far as i know. there are no issues.
    traveling however is an issue for a lot of artists these days.
    and lets face it now, they are an oldies but goodies act. most people these ladies age are retiring.
    sad but true...
    not sure even if DR will tour next year but..
    she was good a month ago when i saw her.

  3. #3
    I loved the Jean Scherrie and Lynda group...the concert at the Dominion beats anything I've seen as a complete concert live labeled DRATS / Supremes...no overload of speedy medleys, show tunes/standards, no loud brass, and the tempos on the hits were truer to the recordings...
    Although I am a huge Scherrie Payne fan, after Jean left my interest faded. I love most of the original Motorcity tracks they cut as solo's, and a group...Lynda had some really good solo tracks...and the duet with the Originals "BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND" was definitely one of most hit worthy tracks of the entire project...that was the cut that Radio should have gotten behind...the 12" version is great.

  4. #4
    Lynda definitely has been stepping into a lot of gigs lately, like I’ve always said whenever I watched the SSJ lineup, it was always a bit off, Susaye usually looked like the odd person standing in the group, and her voice imo is just dreadful. It wouldn’t surprise me with the Lynda fill ins and the cryptic messages Susaye likes to post if Lynda is back permanently, which I’m hoping is the case. Here’s to praying Lynda is back permanently��������

  5. #5
    Here's all I know:

    SSJ sounded amazing when I saw them at Catalina Jazz Club in 2023. Scherrie and Susaye had great energy. Joyce was more understated but still delightful.

    When I met Susaye after the show, she made me feel like the only person in the room. Scherrie and Joyce were friendly too, but Susaye really made me feel special.

    In the comments section on Facebook following the Scherrie, Lynda, Joyce show in Houston, their conductor said it was the first time he'd enjoyed doing the show in years. Another band member agreed with him. I have no idea if that has anything to do with Susaye, or it was just a particularly good show/audience.

    Bottom line: I'm always happy to see the ladies out performing regardless of which lineup it is.

  6. #6
    prior to retiring, did Lynda have some pretty big problems erupt? i'm totally trying to scroll through old memories but i thought she lost her father and then didn't her house burn down or have a serious fire? Plus she's in her 70s. maybe she just needed time to get things together back home.

    and no shade to Joyce but it would be fun to have LSS perform as then it would be totally just former supremes.

    from what i've always heard, S and S have a wonderful relationship. and Lynda is great too. as is Joyce. i think this is a group of women that truly enjoy performing with one another and being together. but they do also enjoy other things too - like Susaye maybe occasionally doing a solo gig or whatever. and Scherrie has done some other things outside the group in recent years too

    the beauty of the FLOs is that the women COULD still do those individual projects while maintaining their participation in the FLOs. I always thought the MSC lineup could have done something like this if they'd carried on into the 80s. or maybe Lynda or Susaye could have joined into the Supremes as "subs" too. if mary was doing a small play like Grandma Sylvia's Funeral, then L or Susaye could have easily stepped in for a while. and it wouldn't have been a "revolving door". or maybe that time could have been used by Scherrie or Cindy to do other things too.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    and no shade to Joyce but it would be fun to have LSS perform as then it would be totally just former supremes.
    Not too long ago, LSS did a "one night only" performance because Joyce was on vacation. They sounded great in the clips I heard.

    I think the idea of group members switching out makes perfect sense and general audiences probably aren't too concerned with which three women are performing.

  8. #8
    Like Mary was to the Supremes. Scherrie will always be the heart of The FLOS. I'll say the same for Lynda. They both have dedicated their entire careers to helping keep the legacy alive. Nothing will beat the Jean, Scherrie, and Lynda lineup, but I think Scherrie, Lynda, and Joyce are a close second.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Like Mary was to the Supremes. Scherrie will always be the heart of The FLOS. I'll say the same for Lynda. They both have dedicated their entire careers to helping keep the legacy alive. Nothing will beat the Jean, Scherrie, and Lynda lineup, but I think Scherrie, Lynda, and Joyce are a close second.
    disagree. They haven't dedicated their entire careers to helping keep the legacy alive Ö they have had their career living off a legacy that was created by Diane, Flo & Mary. Disrespected Mary knowing she didnít want them to do it, tried to get the name while she was still alive and cut into her income and bookings to earn a living based on the work of their predecessor's .

    No other credible options came their way or decent income streams so they lived off the name. Letís face it neither Sherrie, Lynda or Susaye ever appeared on any of the big hits including in 70s.
    without the original trio and Mary who brought them all into the group theyíd be virtually unknown

    nuff said , scherrie does have an incredible voice unlike the other two

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    disagree. They haven't dedicated their entire careers to helping keep the legacy alive … they have had their career living off a legacy that was created by Diane, Flo & Mary. Disrespected Mary knowing she didn’t want them to do it, tried to get the name while she was still alive and cut into her income and bookings to earn a living based on the work of their predecessor's .

    No other credible options came their way or decent income streams so they lived off the name. Let’s face it neither Sherrie, Lynda or Susaye ever appeared on any of the big hits including in 70s.
    without the original trio and Mary who brought them all into the group they’d be virtually unknown

    nuff said , scherrie does have an incredible voice unlike the other two
    that's a pretty cynical view of things. if you truly follow your logic, mary frankly shouldn't have been singing the 60s hits or the Jean hits, because that wasn't her voice on the lead by which the song became a hit. mary also wasn't on LC or Someday at all - so should she have been singing those?

    mary didn't own the name and so she had no legal justification for her suit against them. she had opportunities to collaborate with them and turned them down.

    there were 9 women officially signed to the label as "supremes." unfortunately Flo mistakenly signed away her ability to professionally use her legacy. but the rest were all members and if they wanted to build a subsequent career off their membership, they were entitled to.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    that's a pretty cynical view of things. if you truly follow your logic, mary frankly shouldn't have been singing the 60s hits or the Jean hits, because that wasn't her voice on the lead by which the song became a hit. mary also wasn't on LC or Someday at all - so should she have been singing those?

    mary didn't own the name and so she had no legal justification for her suit against them. she had opportunities to collaborate with them and turned them down.

    there were 9 women officially signed to the label as "supremes." unfortunately Flo mistakenly signed away her ability to professionally use her legacy. but the rest were all members and if they wanted to build a subsequent career off their membership, they were entitled to.
    cynical but true. Mary was on way more hits than any of those 3 either on lead or BV. SS were never on any chart entry hits in the uk. Singles or albums.

    linda one single on bv that scrapped to number 37Ö and nothing else

    Mary did own 50% of the name well documented until Berry sold it and shafted her.

    again SSL did nothing re the supremes until they spotted a opportunity to make some money out of it in the 80s. Nothing to do with keeping legacy alive , LL herself has stated previously itís all about business Ö = £ $
    jean and Lynda left in 73.

  12. #12
    Hahahaha wow bitter much!?!? That’s an interesting prospective and an interesting opinion.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    cynical but true. Mary was on way more hits than any of those 3 either on lead or BV. SS were never on any chart entry hits in the uk. Singles or albums.

    linda one single on bv that scrapped to number 37… and nothing else

    Mary did own 50% of the name well documented until Berry sold it and shafted her.

    again SSL did nothing re the supremes until they spotted a opportunity to make some money out of it in the 80s. Nothing to do with keeping legacy alive , LL herself has stated previously it’s all about business … = £ $
    jean and Lynda left in 73.
    but that's a matter of perspective. Diana is on more hits than mary who is on more hits than scherrie. And scherrie gave mary the ability to continue. Mary didn't have the voice to lead the group and in 73 without the group, mary had nothing.

    therefore i don't think we can solely measure the members based on the songs they sang. and tenure is often outside of the control of the member. There's no denying mary's legacy with the group or her ability to use the group's name and history for her promotion. But let's face it - in mary's solo shows, the focused a lot more on the Diana led songs than Touch, Floy Joy or Auto Sunshine.

    mary's use can't come at the exclusion of the other members, if they so choose to utilize their history too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    but that's a matter of perspective. Diana is on more hits than mary who is on more hits than scherrie. And scherrie gave mary the ability to continue. Mary didn't have the voice to lead the group and in 73 without the group, mary had nothing.

    therefore i don't think we can solely measure the members based on the songs they sang. and tenure is often outside of the control of the member. There's no denying mary's legacy with the group or her ability to use the group's name and history for her promotion. But let's face it - in mary's solo shows, the focused a lot more on the Diana led songs than Touch, Floy Joy or Auto Sunshine.

    mary's use can't come at the exclusion of the other members, if they so choose to utilize their history too.
    Once someone has it set in their mind that "that's the way it is", there's no arguing, lol.

    I do agree: Lynda, Scherrie, and Susaye allowed the Supremes to continue, and bought Mary time to build her confidence and ability. NO WAY Motown would have given Mary a solo contract in 1974. They barely wanted the Supremes to continue, with world-wide name recognition.

    Let's talk about Kaaaaaaren Raaaaagland who has ZERO claim, at least in the eyes of the fans.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Once someone has it set in their mind that "that's the way it is", there's no arguing, lol.

    I do agree: Lynda, Scherrie, and Susaye allowed the Supremes to continue, and bought Mary time to build her confidence and ability. NO WAY Motown would have given Mary a solo contract in 1974. They barely wanted the Supremes to continue, with world-wide name recognition.

    Let's talk about Kaaaaaaren Raaaaagland who has ZERO claim, at least in the eyes of the fans.
    haha i know but sometimes it's just fun to argue lol I miss Marv

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    haha i know but sometimes it's just fun to argue lol I miss Marv
    Yaaaaas! You know I'm always good for a tussle or two. But the thought that Lynda, Scherrie, or Susaye can't stake claim to the brand because they never had a "hit" is ridiculous. I'm Team Mary, but I can spot nonsense a mile away.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Yaaaaas! You know I'm always good for a tussle or two. But the thought that Lynda, Scherrie, or Susaye can't stake claim to the brand because they never had a "hit" is ridiculous. I'm Team Mary, but I can spot nonsense a mile away.
    so can I, and chancers and opportunists

    each entitled to our own opinions but still maintain they didnít maintain a legacy but to make money and without Mary would be nowhere

    enjoy

  18. #18
    Disagree. She didn’t give Mary the ability to continue , if she hadn’t been available she’d have found someone else .
    tenure - Lynda chose to leave
    they lived off a legacy created by MFD without those 3 nada

  19. #19
    No one has more of a right to the Supremes than Flo, Diana and especially Mary. But each of the ladies who came in as replacements were integral to the group's continuation: Cindy stepping in for Flo, Jean stepping in for Diana, Lynda stepping in for Cindy, Scherrie stepping in for Jean, Cindy stepping in for Lynda, Susaye stepping in for Cindy. Mary could not be the Supremes by herself- no woman could- so she needed every lady she hired in the 70s. Once those women became Supremes, they had every right to capitalize off of their work history, regardless of how successful their music had been as a part of the group. I understand why Mary may have had an issue with the FLOS, but in reality she had no right to want them to abandon the legacy they helped continue. It boggles my mind that anyone would suggest otherwise.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    Disagree. She didn’t give Mary the ability to continue , if she hadn’t been available she’d have found someone else .
    tenure - Lynda chose to leave
    they lived off a legacy created by MFD without those 3 nada
    Of course the legacy was created and set by Flo, Diana and Mary. I don't think even the FLOS would disagree with that. But why shouldn't they capitalize off of their work history? Sure, Mary would have probably found someone else if the replacements weren't available, but are you sure about that? Because it's certainly possible that if not for Lamont suggesting Scherrie, that Mary may have had trouble finding the right woman to join the group, and if she didn't find the right one, Mary may have given up the idea of continuing the Supremes. [[Which I kind of wish she had and gone on to pursue a solo career at that point.) Nothing was set in stone until it happened. Who knows how different the story would have been if different things didn't come into play.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    that's a pretty cynical view of things. if you truly follow your logic, mary frankly shouldn't have been singing the 60s hits or the Jean hits, because that wasn't her voice on the lead by which the song became a hit. mary also wasn't on LC or Someday at all - so should she have been singing those?
    I'll allow the argument that Mary shouldn't have sang the hits she isn't on- in the context of this discussion- but not singing the hits she was on just because she wasn't the lead singer isn't the same thing. It was her group recording the song. It's credited to them. It's as much hers as Diana's.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Diana is on more hits than mary
    Actually, I think Mary is on more hits than Diana. Of course one would have to define what a "hit" is. I think most of us agree a top 20 cut is a hit, but especially a top 10 cut. I think when you factor in Mary on the 70s singles, she's either on more hits than Diana or they're running about neck and neck.

  23. #23
    Originally Posted by mwmr

    Disagree. She didn’t give Mary the ability to continue , if she hadn’t been available she’d have found someone else .
    tenure - Lynda chose to leave
    they lived off a legacy created by MFD without those 3 nada
    Did Lynda simply bail on the Supremes?

    Also did they all become close, chummy, agreeable through the years? Mary and the others...
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 06-05-2024 at 03:16 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    I'll allow the argument that Mary shouldn't have sang the hits she isn't on- in the context of this discussion- but not singing the hits she was on just because she wasn't the lead singer isn't the same thing. It was her group recording the song. It's credited to them. It's as much hers as Diana's.
    Oh i completely agree. M and C might not have recorded Love Child but they certainly did all of the promotional work on it and helped it become a massive hit. So yes, they should all be credited with its success and all continue to sing it. I was just making that point to show the ridiculous comment about Scherrie or Lynda not having claims to the group and it's legacy

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Did Lynda simply bail on the Supremes?

    Also did they all become close, chummy, agreeable through the years? Mary and the others...
    my understanding is that the departures of L and J were not necessarily coordinated, even though they both occurred in a close time frame. and i'm piecing this together from comments from Bayou, Randy's books, other fans, etc.

    Jean was ready to leave with the failure of the Jimmy Webb project but agreed to give it another go because of the idea of working with Stevie. Bad Weather was released in late March or so 73. by May, it was clear it wasn't going to be a hit as the promotion just wasn't there. plus in early May the girls performed a gig at the Fairmont in San Fran and had scathing reviews. That was it for Jean. she agreed to continue through the gigs booked through Aug. that would cover their tour of japan, a 2-week run at Bachelor's III in early July and Magic Mountain in early Aug. All of those would have been booked months in advance and all of those would have most likely been high ticket sales and therefore a pretty good chunk of change. Having Jean leave immediately would have meant cancelling and foregoing that money.

    What I've been told about Lynda is that, although pregnant, she was considering her role independently of the jean situation. i'm sure jean's departure impacted lynda's interest in hanging around. the story seems to go that Cindy was already being contacted with returning. mary was wanting to reform the group with she and Lynda sharing lead and cindy as the 3rd. back in Feb 73, mary had met Pedro while the group was performing in Puerto Rico and they had begun dating and were an item. some time during this topsy turvy period, it seems that Lynda was brought into the discussions of the future of the group. i've heard that it was pedro who was doing most of the talking about this redoing of the group, and plans and ideas and all. Lynda has a lot of business sense and saw through his bravado. She would already have been discouraged by motown's lack of support while jean was around. and also was probably disappointed in mary backing out of the girls' idea to jump to another label. seeing this pedro nonsense, she probably guessed that motown would be even LESS interested in the group so why bother with it. so she left and had her baby

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    Oh i completely agree. M and C might not have recorded Love Child but they certainly did all of the promotional work on it and helped it become a massive hit. So yes, they should all be credited with its success and all continue to sing it. I was just making that point to show the ridiculous comment about Scherrie or Lynda not having claims to the group and it's legacy
    you may disagree with my comments. As I do with yours but that doesnít make them ridiculous

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    so can I, and chancers and opportunists

    each entitled to our own opinions but still maintain they didnít maintain a legacy but to make money and without Mary would be nowhere

    enjoy
    I love all Supremes, even Lynda to an extent. In terms of how I view this situation, I lean more towards agreeing with your position, mrmw. I've particularly struggled with my opinion on Lynda. I think she is very Supreme-like with how she performs and looks. I like her voice. However, I have never cared for her overtly negative stance towards Mary, which only seemed to diffuse after Mary passed away. It was then that she finally took the opportunity to publicly thank Mary. Before this, there have been multiple public jabs, the biggest one being where she was quoted as saying that Mary as a solo performer "didn't have what it takes" to back up The Supremes name. Ouch. She did visit Mary after one of her Vegas shows, a couple years before she passed. However, it was done under the guise of proposing that Mary initiate a reconciliation between herself and Diana, and the implied business/financial benefit it would have for all Supremes members. To me, Lynda was overstepping. Lynda also had an awkward moment during the FLOS' 20th anniversary show in 2006, with regards to Mary.

    If anything, I think Lynda is a smart business woman [she's made bank for 40 years on a legacy that was an 18 month stint for her], but not as appreciative as her friend Scherrie. Scherrie has always made it clear that she counted Mary as a friend and that she was thankful to Mary for bringing her into The Supremes. She never forgot her beginnings. Considering that Lynda was in the group for such a short time, I think she should have taken after Scherrie, in terms of her public view on Mary.
    Last edited by carlo; 06-05-2024 at 06:35 PM.

  28. #28
    I thought Berry gave 50% ownership of the name to Mary before he sold it, so that she'd get money on the continuing use of the groups name?...just not out of his pocket...

    I also thought the lawsuit Mary initiated was not about the billing "FLO'S" but billing as The Supremes in the UK where the first unit under Ian Levine supposedly trademarked the name?

    Mary appeared singing on TV with the group for every one of those songs she sang in her solo act...she was a founding member and original...I think its fine she sang the songs....she knew people coming to see her expected to hear Supremes songs, knowing it was Diana Ross who sang the lead on the records...and live she commented at least 1x at every gig she was a background singer....I saw her live about 10x....she was my fav Supreme...I may have been listening to Diana sing...but I watched MARY!

    I became a fan after Florence was gone...'68 around the time of Love Child/ TCB...I was 8...so I am partial to Cindy...I was delighted to see her return in '73...she is my fav singing partner for Mary...with all 3 lead singers...and there was a different Supreme with all 3...MSC had the perfect, smoothest live and recorded blend...no one was too loud or too sharp...the last trio MSS was all over the place and a screetch fest...on top of the speedy arrangements coupled by loud brass [[always the case with the group live. They should have from the start used a small combo with maybe 2 horn players...its post Elvis pop music..no need for a 20 piece army!).....Susaye was a ill fit for a full time member of the group IMHO...Cindy should have stayed, and if they wanted to add Susaye they should have done so as a special guest... like Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes featuring Sharon Paige. Her 2 Supremes studio leads were wonderful...live, it was another story....IMHO the only live exception is the WALK AWAY duet with Udo....which was excellent.
    Last edited by gman; 06-05-2024 at 07:12 PM.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by carlo View Post
    I love all Supremes, even Lynda to an extent. In terms of how I view this situation, I lean more towards agreeing with your position, mrmw. I've particularly struggled with my opinion on Lynda. I think she is very Supreme-like with how she performs and looks. I like her voice. However, I have never cared for her overtly negative stance towards Mary, which only seemed to diffuse after Mary passed away. It was then that she finally took the opportunity to publicly thank Mary. Before this, there have been multiple public jabs, the biggest one being where she was quoted as saying that Mary as a solo performer "didn't have what it takes" to back up The Supremes name. Ouch. She did visit Mary after one of her Vegas shows, a couple years before she passed. However, it was done under the guise of proposing that Mary initiate a reconciliation between herself and Diana, and the implied business/financial benefit it would have for all Supremes members. To me, Lynda was overstepping. Lynda also had an awkward moment during the FLOS' 20th anniversary show in 2006, with regards to Mary.

    If anything, I think Lynda is a smart business woman [she's made bank for 40 years on a legacy that was an 18 month stint for her], but not as appreciative as her friend Scherrie. Scherrie has always made it clear that she counted Mary as a friend and that she was thankful to Mary for bringing her into The Supremes. She never forgot her beginnings. Considering that Lynda was in the group for such a short time, I think she should have taken after Scherrie, in terms of her public view on Mary.
    Carlo, you hit the nail on the head for me. It's exactly how I feel about Lynda. There's talent and business acumen there, but... she always seems to have lacked some grace when it came to Mary and the fact that Mary was an original Supreme and in the group from beginning to end. Lynda's career as one of the FLOS [[which has probably brought her the most professional and financial success) was possible because she was part of Mary's group.

  30. #30
    It seems quite unrealistic to me that anyone would suggest any of the people that were Supremes should not be singing songs that were hits for the Supremes. Whether or not they sounded at all like Diana was a whole different question because no one has ever been able to duplicate her sound; but Jean came the closest while many of the others couldn’t come close.

    Like almost every group that was together very long, disagreements and dissensions grew. There were tensions between Mary and the FLOS over carving up what was left of the market that Diana left over. However none of the law suits instituted were ultimately successful after a Court Judgment.

    Lastly, no record company was ever going to provide much support to an unproven group like existed after Jean was gone especially when the group had unreliable management and disagreeing members.

  31. #31
    I assume everyone on SDF works, or worked at one time. And used their resume; their past experience to get a better position and/or higher pay. I've personally worked several jobs for less than 18 months, but have used that opportunity as a stepping stone to something bigger and better. Lynda would have been a fool not to capitalize having been a Supreme.

    Yes, Lynda had been unsavory to Mary, but Mary also seemed to forget any Supreme that came after Flo. You all remember Motown 45, when Mary was introduced as an ORIGINAL Supreme., and Cindy was introduced as a FORMER Supreme? Mary had every right. But seems awfully petty to me. And let's not talk about the Rock Hall.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I assume everyone on SDF works, or worked at one time. And used their resume; their past experience to get a better position and/or higher pay. I've personally worked several jobs for less than 18 months, but have used that opportunity as a stepping stone to something bigger and better. Lynda would have been a fool not to capitalize having been a Supreme.

    Yes, Lynda had been unsavory to Mary, but Mary also seemed to forget any Supreme that came after Flo. You all remember Motown 45, when Mary was introduced as an ORIGINAL Supreme., and Cindy was introduced as a FORMER Supreme? Mary had every right. But seems awfully petty to me. And let's not talk about the Rock Hall.
    Lynda is entitled to the Supremes legacy like all the other Supremes, but I can understand it leaving a bad taste in some fans mouths that Lynda may have at times bit the hand that once fed her, so to speak. In fact I remember a thread a couple years ago where someone posted an article, I think, that quoted Lynda and Scherrie at length about RTL. Lynda's words left a bad taste in my mouth. However, she isn't the first Supreme who annoyed me with her attitude toward other Supremes [[Diana, anyone?) so Lynda remains one of my favorites.

    As far as Mary and Cindy goes, what's wrong with it being pointed out that Mary is an original Supreme? Anytime they took the stage, "original Supreme" should've been announced for Mary, Florence and Diana. Let's not forget, it was the original Supremes who put in years of work to get to the top. Cindy came into an already existing successful entity. And while we give her all her due props for stepping in during a difficult time, a transitional period, and bringing her own "it" factor to the act, her hardscrabble years were with a totally different group. She's a former Supreme. No shame in that. But she aint no original.

    Cindy also didn't meet the time requirement for induction with the Supremes in 1988 at the RRHOF. A few more years, and it would have been fine for Cindy, and Jean too, to be inducted. In fact, it seems like it should only be right that in cases like this, when they are eligible, group members who advanced the popularity and success of the group, as Cindy and Jean did, should retroactively be inducted.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    I assume everyone on SDF works, or worked at one time. And used their resume; their past experience to get a better position and/or higher pay. I've personally worked several jobs for less than 18 months, but have used that opportunity as a stepping stone to something bigger and better. Lynda would have been a fool not to capitalize having been a Supreme.

    Yes, Lynda had been unsavory to Mary, but Mary also seemed to forget any Supreme that came after Flo. You all remember Motown 45, when Mary was introduced as an ORIGINAL Supreme., and Cindy was introduced as a FORMER Supreme? Mary had every right. But seems awfully petty to me. And let's not talk about the Rock Hall.
    exactly. and let's also not forget that Mary was certainly unsavory towards the women too. even during the years they were officially working together. while none of the others wrote it in a book, they've shared many instances with fans of some of the problems. As we've discussed many times regarding the D vs M history, there are two [[or sometimes MORE) sides to every story. and for the smack mary wrote about the 70s supremes, each of them have stories on issues with mary.

    the point isn't to tally up who did the most mean things or who did what. But if the basis for a fan's not "liking" Lynda is because of the beef Lynda seems to have with Mary, shouldn't they at least be willing to acknowledge that mary was also a culprit in that situation? sure maybe lynda was doing some things wrong within the group but so was mary. both still have claim to the group's legacy.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Lynda is entitled to the Supremes legacy like all the other Supremes, but I can understand it leaving a bad taste in some fans mouths that Lynda may have at times bit the hand that once fed her, so to speak. In fact I remember a thread a couple years ago where someone posted an article, I think, that quoted Lynda and Scherrie at length about RTL. Lynda's words left a bad taste in my mouth. However, she isn't the first Supreme who annoyed me with her attitude toward other Supremes [[Diana, anyone?) so Lynda remains one of my favorites.

    As far as Mary and Cindy goes, what's wrong with it being pointed out that Mary is an original Supreme? Anytime they took the stage, "original Supreme" should've been announced for Mary, Florence and Diana. Let's not forget, it was the original Supremes who put in years of work to get to the top. Cindy came into an already existing successful entity. And while we give her all her due props for stepping in during a difficult time, a transitional period, and bringing her own "it" factor to the act, her hardscrabble years were with a totally different group. She's a former Supreme. No shame in that. But she aint no original.

    Cindy also didn't meet the time requirement for induction with the Supremes in 1988 at the RRHOF. A few more years, and it would have been fine for Cindy, and Jean too, to be inducted. In fact, it seems like it should only be right that in cases like this, when they are eligible, group members who advanced the popularity and success of the group, as Cindy and Jean did, should retroactively be inducted.
    it gets really messy, especially with the Cindy situation. was cindy an original? no of course not. But she was a member of the group for a LONG time. one of the longest actually. and i'm not going to count Primette years but i do understand that you could:

    Diana: jan 61 - jan 70. then years exactly
    Flo: jan 61 - july 67. 6.5 years
    Cindy: july 67 - april 72, just shy of 5 years. oct 73 - Jan 76 another 2.5 years or so

    that makes 7.5 years for Cindy versus 6.5 for Flo. Flo also was either the source or at the center of a huge amount of conflict within the group, cindy was pretty much never a source of conflict. Flo was on more hit records, Cindy was on the groundbreaking TCB. Cindy was also 100% dependable which flo often was not. Cindy was also there again and again to help mary in times of need. Flo had some lead vocals, Cindy didn't.

    my point isn't that Cindy should be credited as an original Supreme. the world first fell in love with Diana, Florence and Mary and their unique blend of talent, voices, appeal and star power is what created this group. I guess my point is Cindy isn't just an "and other" supreme and mary has often simply focused on the original lineup rather than celebrating the long and storied history of the group. Rock And Roll Hall of Fame presentation anyone?

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by mwmr View Post
    you may disagree with my comments. As I do with yours but that doesn’t make them ridiculous
    i'll be transparent. my issue is that your opinion isn't about liking one album or performance better than another. or that you happen to enjoy one member more than another. all of those are great and what makes the discussions here and elsewhere fascinating. i've learned tons about the history from fans, have sometimes changed my thoughts on a song after discussing it with fans. but having an opinion that one member of the group is more "deserving" of the legacy of the group is the problem. i don't deny mary being the anchor of the group, leading it through the years. and her usage of the history and the name. but at the same time, it doesn't exclude others from doing the same. once a supreme, always a supreme

    i do apologize for saying ridiculous. that wasn't right.

    anyway it's always hard to convey thoughts and ideas, nuances on here since it's just text. no inflection, tone or ability to banter. So i hope you don't read into my comments as an attack, as that's not the intention.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    But if the basis for a fan's not "liking" Lynda is because of the beef Lynda seems to have with Mary, shouldn't they at least be willing to acknowledge that mary was also a culprit in that situation?
    To be fair, those in the anti Lynda camp have obviously taken their cues from the anti Mary camp, who are always willing to acknowledge Mary as a problem and Diana as a victim of jealousy and bitterness. Although to continue the fairness, the anti Diana crowd does the same on behalf of Florence, as in she has no share of the problems. Typically in relationships, when things get rocky, there's enough blame to go around.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    it gets really messy, especially with the Cindy situation. was cindy an original? no of course not. But she was a member of the group for a LONG time. one of the longest actually. and i'm not going to count Primette years but i do understand that you could:

    Diana: jan 61 - jan 70. then years exactly
    Flo: jan 61 - july 67. 6.5 years
    Cindy: july 67 - april 72, just shy of 5 years. oct 73 - Jan 76 another 2.5 years or so

    that makes 7.5 years for Cindy versus 6.5 for Flo. Flo also was either the source or at the center of a huge amount of conflict within the group, cindy was pretty much never a source of conflict. Flo was on more hit records, Cindy was on the groundbreaking TCB. Cindy was also 100% dependable which flo often was not. Cindy was also there again and again to help mary in times of need. Flo had some lead vocals, Cindy didn't.

    my point isn't that Cindy should be credited as an original Supreme. the world first fell in love with Diana, Florence and Mary and their unique blend of talent, voices, appeal and star power is what created this group. I guess my point is Cindy isn't just an "and other" supreme and mary has often simply focused on the original lineup rather than celebrating the long and storied history of the group. Rock And Roll Hall of Fame presentation anyone?
    Flo's conflicts with the group are immaterial. She spent years helping to get the Supremes to the top and building their brand. Obviously those conflicts weren't enough to keep Mary and Diana from putting Flo on a pedestal that Cindy and the others have been prevented from standing on.

    Cindy was a member of the group for a long time, but that doesn't override the fact that she was a replacement. Both Mary and Diana have made comments that put Cindy in the "other" category as opposed to Florence. In their minds, the Supremes were the three of them. Anyone who came after- Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, Susaye- were certainly Supremes too, but they would never achieve the success or set a blueprint for all following female groups the way the original trio did. And again, it was the original trio who put in the work that made it possible for Cindy to even entertain the idea of leaving her other group behind and joining in.

    Mary, as well as Flo and Diana, should always be able to wear the title of Original Supreme proudly. They should be acknowledged that way, the way Aretha was always acknowledged as the Queen of Soul, or James Brown as the Godfather of Soul. These were accomplishments. It says something about what they were able to achieve, again, through hard work. Cindy wasn't an original, she was a replacement. Referring to her as "and replacement Supreme, Cindy Birdsong" would have been disrespectful. Former Supreme she is, so call her that.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by RanRan79 View Post
    Flo's conflicts with the group are immaterial. She spent years helping to get the Supremes to the top and building their brand. Obviously those conflicts weren't enough to keep Mary and Diana from putting Flo on a pedestal that Cindy and the others have been prevented from standing on.

    Cindy was a member of the group for a long time, but that doesn't override the fact that she was a replacement. Both Mary and Diana have made comments that put Cindy in the "other" category as opposed to Florence. In their minds, the Supremes were the three of them. Anyone who came after- Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, Susaye- were certainly Supremes too, but they would never achieve the success or set a blueprint for all following female groups the way the original trio did. And again, it was the original trio who put in the work that made it possible for Cindy to even entertain the idea of leaving her other group behind and joining in.

    Mary, as well as Flo and Diana, should always be able to wear the title of Original Supreme proudly. They should be acknowledged that way, the way Aretha was always acknowledged as the Queen of Soul, or James Brown as the Godfather of Soul. These were accomplishments. It says something about what they were able to achieve, again, through hard work. Cindy wasn't an original, she was a replacement. Referring to her as "and replacement Supreme, Cindy Birdsong" would have been disrespectful. Former Supreme she is, so call her that.
    maybe what has, unfortunately, helped perpetuate things is that 1) the public sort of forgets the other two girls besides Diana and 2) things like the Motown 25 special and other shows have tended to overlook the 70s. Completely agree about the importance of the original 3 and the classic DFM lineup. but when people refer to DRATS and sort of assume that portion of the group's history is THE history of the group, it includes DMC and that adds to the confusion and problems.

    I don't think it was appropriate for mary to only acknowledge the DMF era in her speeches at the Hollywood Walk of Fame, the R&R Hall Of Fame Awards and in other public forums. this isn't to say every time she spoke of the group she had to list every member. when she would present on "dreams coming true" and how 3 little girls from Detroit beat the odds, of course that should be DMF. but when the group is being recognized for it's history, i think they should be attempting to include all of the history. her gown exhibit did a lovely job of this. it's the basic gripe that the Supremes didn't end in 1967, nor in 1970.

  39. #39
    I got so tired of hearing my much loved Mary drone on and on about the original trio...the interviews and lead to topics were all very predictable....and a bore by this point.
    But, in her final years she gave the 70's Supremes stronger acknowledgement...the replacement Supremes may be only a footnote to fans who didn't follow the group faithfully after Diana left...but to those of us who continued, they were loved...of course, rotation of members made the group look like a once said "employment agency"....that's why the return of Cindy was so important to the group...when she left again, the stability in eyes of the fans and the public fractured again...

  40. #40
    Was Cindy a Bluebelle as long as Lynda was a Supreme?
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 06-06-2024 at 01:18 PM.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Was Cindy a Bluebell as long as Lynda was a Supreme?
    Much longer. Cindy was a Bluebelle for at least six or seven years.

  42. #42
    So Cindy has a stronger legacy claim to Labelle stuff than Lynda to Supremes material ...

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    So Cindy has a stronger legacy claim to Labelle stuff than Lynda to Supremes material ...
    but Lynda appears on tv shows and in bigger concert venues as a supreme than Cindy did as a Bluebelle. The supremes' schedule was also more filled than most groups. so you could say 18 months in the supremes is the equivalent to 24 or 30 months of touring and performances of other groups

  44. #44
    also Lynda was the lead singer for the group in HI and for some of the Copa gig in spring 72. mary would have done her typical lead on Can't Take My Eyes but otherwise lynda would have pretty much all of the rest.

  45. #45
    ^got it.
    still, both appeared [recorded] on the same amount of the crowd drawing material of these two groups. ...
    Last edited by Boogiedown; 06-06-2024 at 01:56 PM.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogiedown View Post
    Was Cindy a Bluebelle as long as Lynda was a Supreme?
    Wasn't Cindy a Supreme longer than Flo?

    Flo: 1961 to mid-1967

    Cindy: Mid-1967 to 1972 and 1974 to 1976.

  47. #47
    I think I need to make a clarification regarding their Rock Hall induction. I'm not sure where it started that Mary had a say in who got inducted into the Supremes, but that decision is left to the Rock Hall Foundation. They determine which member gets inducted into each group. Mary didn't have that power to call the shots. A member's joining into a group doesn't determine their induction. It's the group overall that has to meet the 25-year qualification.

    Cindy should have been inducted and it was one of the first major oversights, but for some reason the Rock Hall Foundation felt Diana, Mary and Florence were the only ones deserving. I should add the Supremes aren't the only groups who had members not inducted with their bands.

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    also Lynda was the lead singer for the group in HI and for some of the Copa gig in spring 72. mary would have done her typical lead on Can't Take My Eyes but otherwise lynda would have pretty much all of the rest.
    The show's arrangements were scored for a Soprano lead...IMHO...Jean has the broader, appealing voice... Lynda- like Florence is capable of singing VERY loud...her solo on John Kydd's 12" remake of Up The Ladder To The Roof was the first time I heard a Lynda lead vocal...on the rear panel she was thanked for "a hair raising performance"...a few of her Motorcity tracks are over powered...but some are wonderful.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by bradsupremes View Post
    I think I need to make a clarification regarding their Rock Hall induction. I'm not sure where it started that Mary had a say in who got inducted into the Supremes, but that decision is left to the Rock Hall Foundation. They determine which member gets inducted into each group. Mary didn't have that power to call the shots. A member's joining into a group doesn't determine their induction. It's the group overall that has to meet the 25-year qualification.

    Cindy should have been inducted and it was one of the first major oversights, but for some reason the Rock Hall Foundation felt Diana, Mary and Florence were the only ones deserving. I should add the Supremes aren't the only groups who had members not inducted with their bands.
    Thanks Brad. That was my assumption too. I was hoping you'd chime in, as I know you're quite the expert.

    To be clear, I wasn't implying in my post that Mary had the ultimate say-so on who should and shouldn't be included in the induction. This has been discussed several times here. I do believe though that Mary COULD have pushed for Cindy to be inducted. Was Cindy or any other Supreme mentioned in her acceptance speech?

    Mary liked to be the Original and for all intent and purposes, only acknowledged the Originals, which is a shame.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by marybrewster View Post
    Wasn't Cindy a Supreme longer than Flo?

    Flo: 1961 to mid-1967

    Cindy: Mid-1967 to 1972 and 1974 to 1976.
    Sorry, this was discussed above. I must have missed it.

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